OCA talk:Sqrt replicator rule: Difference between revisions
m Ian07 moved page Talk:Logarithmic replicator rule to OCA talk:Logarithmic replicator rule |
m Dvgrn moved page OCA talk:Sqrt Replicator rule to OCA talk:Sqrt replicator rule without leaving a redirect: Moving page to intended location as per https://conwaylife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=172942#p172942 |
||
| (18 intermediate revisions by 5 users not shown) | |||
| Line 4: | Line 4: | ||
Yeah, it's quite an interesting rule (the replicator behaviour seems to be unique), and also outer-totalistic. [[User:77topaz|77topaz]] ([[User talk:77topaz|talk]]) 09:55, 3 March 2019 (UTC) | Yeah, it's quite an interesting rule (the replicator behaviour seems to be unique), and also outer-totalistic. [[User:77topaz|77topaz]] ([[User talk:77topaz|talk]]) 09:55, 3 March 2019 (UTC) | ||
:The asymptotic growth is matched by that of rule 225, however this one is novel due to its isotropicness. [[User:DroneBetter|DroneBetter]] ([[User talk:DroneBetter|talk]]) 15:45, 29 September 2023 (UTC) | |||
==Incorrectness of name== | |||
Note that Muzik created this page with the name "Logarithmic replicator rule" despite David Eppstein's page not anywhere describing it as such. (Edit 2023-11-27: They clarified that the name in fact stemmed from [https://conwaylife.com/w/index.php?title=Gun&diff=9793&oldid=9711 a 2009 edit by apg]) | |||
The width of the pattern in the equivalent INT rule given by AforAmpere is not in fact logarithmic, it grows with <tt>Θ({{sqrt|t}})</tt>. Where <tt>...</tt>, <tt>.o.</tt>, <tt>o.o</tt> and <tt>ooo</tt> refer to <tt>0</tt>, <tt>1</tt>, <tt>2</tt> and <tt>3</tt>, it is equivalent to the <tt>4</tt>-state range-<tt>1</tt> one-dimensional cellular automaton with rule integer <tt>0x190e002061040c0b86d0010e5980</tt>, here is a demonstration<pre> | |||
from functools import reduce;from itertools import starmap,accumulate;redumulate=lambda f,l,i=None: accumulate(l,f,initial=i);print('\n'.join(starmap(lambda i,n: ' '*(l-i<<1)+''.join(map(lambda i: ' 123'[n>>(i<<1)&3],range(n.bit_length()+1>>1))),enumerate(redumulate(lambda n,i: reduce(int.__or__,map(lambda i: (0x190e002061040c0b86d0010e5980>>((n<<4>>(i<<1)&63)<<1)&3)<<(i+1<<1),range(n.bit_length()+4>>1))),range(l:=64),0b110))))) | |||
</pre> | |||
Anyway, where <tt>l(t)</tt> is the bit-length of the pattern on the <tt>t</tt>th iteration, we have the limiting bounds <tt>2 < {{frac|l(t)|{{sqrt|t}}}} < {{frac|2*{{sqrt|5}}|{{sqrt|3}}}}</tt>. <!--For <tt>n≥4</tt>, on the <tt>2<sup>n</sup></tt>th iteration, its width is in fact <tt>2<sup>(n-5)/2</sup>*(13*{{sqrt|2}}+18+(13*{{sqrt|2}}-18)*(-1)<sup>n</sup>)-10</tt>.--> | |||
As such, I will move the page to [[OCA:Θ(sqrt(t)) replicator rule|OCA:<tt>Θ({{sqrt|t}})</tt> replicator rule]]. [[User:DroneBetter|DroneBetter]] ([[User talk:DroneBetter|talk]]) 15:45, 29 September 2023 (UTC) | |||
:Addendum: For what it's worth, it is more similar to [[OCA:Rule 225|rule 225]] than one may expect. I have found explicit forms that may be of interest. Alike [[OCA:Rule 225]], where <tt>b<sub>2</sub>(n)</tt> (<tt>{{OEIS|A000695|tt=tt}}(n)</tt>) is the number obtained from writing <tt>n</tt> in binary and reading this result as a base-<tt>4</tt> number, in the emulated 4-state Wolfram rule, the left edge's number of generations to grow by <tt>n</tt> cells is {{nowrap|<tt>{{frac|3*n<sup>2</sup>|4}} < (2*b<sub>2</sub>(n-1)+b<sub>2</sub>(⌊{{frac|n-1|2}}⌋)+4 if n>0 else 1) < {{frac|9*n<sup>2</sup>|4}}</tt>}} and the right edge's by {{nowrap|<tt>{{frac|3*n<sup>2</sup>|8}} < 3*b<sub>2</sub>(⌊{{frac|n|2}}⌋+1)+6*b<sub>2</sub>(⌊{{frac|n+2-2<sup>⌊log<sub>2</sub>(n+2)⌋</sup>|2}}⌋)+(n%2)*2+4 < {{frac|3*n<sup>2</sup>|4}}</tt>}} (where bounds given are asymptotic). The inverse of their sum is slightly harder, but this should be sufficient justification. [[User:DroneBetter|DroneBetter]] ([[User talk:DroneBetter|talk]]) 15:58, 10 October 2023 (UTC) | |||
: I am going to move it back. Forum search gives a number of results where people mention this rule by the name "Logarithmic replicator rule". I do not think your proposed alternative is anywhere near common. [[User:Confocal|Confocal]] ([[User talk:Confocal|talk]]) 15:49, 29 September 2023 (UTC) | |||
::The commonness matters not, it is correctness that is important. [[User:DroneBetter|DroneBetter]] ([[User talk:DroneBetter|talk]]) 15:58, 10 October 2023 (UTC) | |||
::: Both are important. I cannot find any actual uses of your proposed names by others elsewhere, i.e., it is your newly invented terminology. According to [[LifeWiki:Notability]], "To prevent overenthusiastic edits and conflicts of interest, a commonly accepted rule is that the discoverer of a pattern, inventor of new terminology, writer of a program, etc., etc., should not be the one to document that pattern, term, or program on the LifeWiki." <br />In contrast, there are multiple places where 'logarithmic replicator' and/or 'logarithmic replicator rule' is used by various people: [https://conwaylife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=78463#p78463 post78463] [https://conwaylife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=102490#p102490 post102490] [https://conwaylife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=126381#p126381 post126381] [https://conwaylife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=129591#p129591 post129591] [https://conwaylife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=130676#p130676 post130676] [https://conwaylife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=136832#p136832 post136832] [https://conwaylife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=151358#p151358 post151358]. [[User:Confocal|Confocal]] ([[User talk:Confocal|talk]]) 00:24, 11 October 2023 (UTC) | |||
:::: It might be best to just use the rulestring then. --[[User:Galoomba|Galoomba]] ([[User talk:Galoomba|talk]]) 09:26, 11 October 2023 (UTC) | |||
::::: I added a "proposed move" template transclusion for the rulestring suggestion. [https://conwaylife.com/w/index.php?diff=137871&oldid=137865 As I already clarified], personally I prefer to keep the existing name {{rl|Logarithmic replicator rule}}, because it is how the rule is commonly referred to (forum, Catagolue and most likely elsewhere). A rulestring would be a valid name as well, but then certain people will complain that the rule is "unnamed" and will want to invent a completely new name and put it on LifeWiki ([https://conwaylife.com/w/index.php?title=OCA:Logarithmic_replicator_rule&action=history this already happens]). [[User:Confocal|Confocal]] ([[User talk:Confocal|talk]]) 04:12, 12 October 2023 (UTC) | |||
:::::: After [https://conwaylife.com/w/index.php?title=OCA:Logarithmic_replicator_rule&action=history yet another attempt] to move to an invented name, I [https://conwaylife.com/w/index.php?diff=139082&oldid=139075 removed] proposed move. Obviously there is no consensus for the proposed move to rulestring-based pagename, and there are no alternative names in sufficiently common use either. [[User:Confocal|Confocal]] ([[User talk:Confocal|talk]]) 07:34, 21 October 2023 (UTC) | |||
: Related discussion: [[LifeWiki:Tiki_bar#"logarithmic"_replicator_rule_and_prospect_of_"OCA:rule_225"_page]]. [[User:Confocal|Confocal]] ([[User talk:Confocal|talk]]) 12:41, 30 September 2023 (UTC) | |||
Latest revision as of 23:52, 11 December 2023
Proper wiki article?
Would it be a good idea to make this a proper article? I'm not sure how notable this rule is (I do remember seeing some discussion about it on the forums or elsewhere) but I do want to point out that not only is this page the sole instance of a soft redirect on the wiki, but it's also to an external site and therefore doesn't even work because the template interprets it as an internal link. Ian07 (talk) 20:44, 15 February 2019 (UTC)
Yeah, it's quite an interesting rule (the replicator behaviour seems to be unique), and also outer-totalistic. 77topaz (talk) 09:55, 3 March 2019 (UTC)
- The asymptotic growth is matched by that of rule 225, however this one is novel due to its isotropicness. DroneBetter (talk) 15:45, 29 September 2023 (UTC)
Incorrectness of name
Note that Muzik created this page with the name "Logarithmic replicator rule" despite David Eppstein's page not anywhere describing it as such. (Edit 2023-11-27: They clarified that the name in fact stemmed from a 2009 edit by apg)
The width of the pattern in the equivalent INT rule given by AforAmpere is not in fact logarithmic, it grows with Θ(√t). Where ..., .o., o.o and ooo refer to 0, 1, 2 and 3, it is equivalent to the 4-state range-1 one-dimensional cellular automaton with rule integer 0x190e002061040c0b86d0010e5980, here is a demonstration
from functools import reduce;from itertools import starmap,accumulate;redumulate=lambda f,l,i=None: accumulate(l,f,initial=i);print('\n'.join(starmap(lambda i,n: ' '*(l-i<<1)+''.join(map(lambda i: ' 123'[n>>(i<<1)&3],range(n.bit_length()+1>>1))),enumerate(redumulate(lambda n,i: reduce(int.__or__,map(lambda i: (0x190e002061040c0b86d0010e5980>>((n<<4>>(i<<1)&63)<<1)&3)<<(i+1<<1),range(n.bit_length()+4>>1))),range(l:=64),0b110)))))
Anyway, where l(t) is the bit-length of the pattern on the tth iteration, we have the limiting bounds 2 < l(t)√t < 2*√5√3.
As such, I will move the page to OCA:Θ(√t) replicator rule. DroneBetter (talk) 15:45, 29 September 2023 (UTC)
- Addendum: For what it's worth, it is more similar to rule 225 than one may expect. I have found explicit forms that may be of interest. Alike OCA:Rule 225, where b2(n) (A000695(n)) is the number obtained from writing n in binary and reading this result as a base-4 number, in the emulated 4-state Wolfram rule, the left edge's number of generations to grow by n cells is 3*n24 < (2*b2(n-1)+b2(⌊n-12⌋)+4 if n>0 else 1) < 9*n24 and the right edge's by 3*n28 < 3*b2(⌊n2⌋+1)+6*b2(⌊n+2-2⌊log2(n+2)⌋2⌋)+(n%2)*2+4 < 3*n24 (where bounds given are asymptotic). The inverse of their sum is slightly harder, but this should be sufficient justification. DroneBetter (talk) 15:58, 10 October 2023 (UTC)
- I am going to move it back. Forum search gives a number of results where people mention this rule by the name "Logarithmic replicator rule". I do not think your proposed alternative is anywhere near common. Confocal (talk) 15:49, 29 September 2023 (UTC)
- The commonness matters not, it is correctness that is important. DroneBetter (talk) 15:58, 10 October 2023 (UTC)
- Both are important. I cannot find any actual uses of your proposed names by others elsewhere, i.e., it is your newly invented terminology. According to LifeWiki:Notability, "To prevent overenthusiastic edits and conflicts of interest, a commonly accepted rule is that the discoverer of a pattern, inventor of new terminology, writer of a program, etc., etc., should not be the one to document that pattern, term, or program on the LifeWiki."
In contrast, there are multiple places where 'logarithmic replicator' and/or 'logarithmic replicator rule' is used by various people: post78463 post102490 post126381 post129591 post130676 post136832 post151358. Confocal (talk) 00:24, 11 October 2023 (UTC)
- Both are important. I cannot find any actual uses of your proposed names by others elsewhere, i.e., it is your newly invented terminology. According to LifeWiki:Notability, "To prevent overenthusiastic edits and conflicts of interest, a commonly accepted rule is that the discoverer of a pattern, inventor of new terminology, writer of a program, etc., etc., should not be the one to document that pattern, term, or program on the LifeWiki."
- The commonness matters not, it is correctness that is important. DroneBetter (talk) 15:58, 10 October 2023 (UTC)
- I added a "proposed move" template transclusion for the rulestring suggestion. As I already clarified, personally I prefer to keep the existing name Logarithmic replicator rule, because it is how the rule is commonly referred to (forum, Catagolue and most likely elsewhere). A rulestring would be a valid name as well, but then certain people will complain that the rule is "unnamed" and will want to invent a completely new name and put it on LifeWiki (this already happens). Confocal (talk) 04:12, 12 October 2023 (UTC)
- After yet another attempt to move to an invented name, I removed proposed move. Obviously there is no consensus for the proposed move to rulestring-based pagename, and there are no alternative names in sufficiently common use either. Confocal (talk) 07:34, 21 October 2023 (UTC)
- Related discussion: LifeWiki:Tiki_bar#"logarithmic"_replicator_rule_and_prospect_of_"OCA:rule_225"_page. Confocal (talk) 12:41, 30 September 2023 (UTC)