Creating things while a simulation is running

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hotdogPi
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Creating things while a simulation is running

Post by hotdogPi »

I'm surprised there's been essentially no research into this. You can place and delete one cell at a time, but you have no control over timing.

There's a similar thread at Objects a la carte, but that one has somewhat arbitrary rules (why 12?) that match the "lifecompetes" website. I feel like the definition in this thread is more natural.

I am aware that Golly pauses the simulation when you're placing or deleting cells. I'm assuming no pause, so "fishhook + place a diagonally touching block → elevener" would not be allowed. Someone on Discord recently posted CGOL in SimCity 4 that would only allow one cell at a time.

When I say "no control over timing", I mean that things have to settle before placing or deleting the next cell to avoid something unpredictable. If you place a cell next to a blinker, you have no control over which phase it's in. Deleting the central cell will kill it regardless. Placing a cell here will create a beehive in one of two orientations, and then placing a cell in the same spot again will turn it into a honey farm in the same spot regardless of its phase on the first click, showing that blinkers can be used for stuff despite the apparent uncertainty.

Code: Select all

x = 3, y = 4, rule = B3/S23
2bo$o$o$o!
Similarly, I'm not sure how often you would want to turn it into a block, but placing a cell next to a toad here will modify it in this phase, and if the toad is in the other phase, the placed cell dies immediately, allowing you to try again until you get it.

Code: Select all

x = 6, y = 4, rule = B3/S23
bo$o2bo$o2bo$2bo2bo!
There is the somewhat famous "traffic light plus one cell → fishhook". Of course, if you click in the wrong phase, it won't work. However, if you have a way to repeatedly create a traffic light in that spot with enough space around it, if it goes the "wrong way" into a block and a two beehives, you can delete them, create the traffic light, and try again until it works. This would be much more difficult to control if a wrong-phase click made an R-pentomino or similar.

Code: Select all

x = 9, y = 9, rule = B3/S23
4bo$4bo$3b2o2$3o3b3o2$4bo$4bo$4bo!
If you already have a fishhook and a block on table in this position, you can turn the block on table into a MWSS, while the fishhook survives.

Code: Select all

x = 11, y = 9, rule = B3/S23
2o$bo$bobo$2b2o5b2o$9b2o2$7b4o$7bo2bo$5bo!
Larger objects might require some setup, such as this:

Code: Select all

x = 20, y = 18, rule = B3/S23
5bo7b2o$4bobo6b2o$4bobo$5bo$8b2ob2o$8b2ob2o$2obo$ob2o8$17b3o$14b2o2b2o
$14b2o!
Let me know your ideas. I was thinking more as alternative to glider syntheses (e.g. how could we create mold, fumarole, loafer, unsynthesizable still life, whatever the newest hassler is at any given time, etc.); my examples are introductory since I haven't explored it much.
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eRroR_6o6
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Re: Creating things while a simulation is running

Post by eRroR_6o6 »

Here's a simple way to turn a block into a glider, if you have enough space.

Code: Select all

x = 39, y = 13, rule = B3/S23
32bo$31bobo$31bobo$15bo15b2o$ob2o12bo$2b2o11bobo9b2o7b2o$15bobo8bo2bo
5bo2bo$16bo10b2o7b2o2$32bo$31bobo$31bobo$32bo!
(The second cell can be placed in any place that results in a honey farm.)

Code: Select all

x = 19, y = 37, rule = B3/S23
13b3o$12b4o$11b2obobo$13bobo$15bo12$10b2o$bobo7bobo$o7b2o3b2o$o3bo2b3o
3bo$o6b4obo$o2bo7bo$3o12bobo$18bo$14bo3bo$14bo3bo$18bo$9bo5bo2bo$8b3o
5b3o2$10bo$2bobo4b2o$5bo2b3o$5bo2b3o$2bo2bo2b2obo$3b3o3b3o$10bo!
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ThePlayzr
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Re: Creating things while a simulation is running

Post by ThePlayzr »

Here are some slow salvoes, starting with a block:

Code: Select all

x = 305, y = 45, rule = B3/S23
157bo13bo$4bob2o151b2o11b2o$6b2o151b2o11b2o14$4bo165bo44bo46bo15bo14b
o9bo$6bo121bo16bo26bo42bo45bobo13b3o12bobo7bo$5bobo118b2obo14bobo24bo
bo40bobo45b3o13b2o13bo9b2o$5bobo119bobo14bobo25b2o41b2o$6bo121bo10$171b
o59bo$6bo17bo17bo17bo17bo17bo17bo57b2o10b3o13b2o14bo15bo14bo30b2o$5bo
bo15bobo15bobo15bobo15bobo15bobo15bobo56bobo10bobo11b2obo12bobo13bobo
11b2obo15bo12bo2bo$5bobo15bobo15bobo15bobo15bobo15bobo15bobo57b2o11b2o
13b2o12bo2bo12bo2bo11bo2bo13b3o11bo2bo$6bo17bo17bo17bo17bo17bo17bo100b
3o14b2o13b2o29b2o$280bo$b2o7b2o7b2o7b2o7b2o7b2o7b2o7b2o7b2o7b2o7b2o7b
2o7b2o7b2o$o2bo5bo2bo5bo2bo5bo2bo5bo2bo5bo2bo5bo2bo5bo2bo5bo2bo5bo2bo
5bo2bo5bo2bo5bo2bo5bo2bo$b2o7b2o7b2o7b2o7b2o7b2o7b2o7b2o7b2o7b2o7b2o7b
2o7b2o7b2o$78bo$6bo17bo17bo16b2o17bo17bo17bo$4b2obo15bobo15bobo15bobo
15bobo15bobo15bobo$5bobo14b2obo15bobo15bobo15bobo15bobo15bobo$6bo17bo
16b2o17bo17bo17bo$96bo!
If you want to see what one does, but the other ones interfere with the evolution, simply select it, and then clear outside selection. I haven't done the ones involving the R-pentomino though, but I do have one that makes a long boat:

Code: Select all

x = 29, y = 25, rule = B3/S23
28bo$28bo$b2o17b2o6bo$b2o16bo2bo$20b2o3$b2o$obo$bo15b3o$16bo2bo$17b2o
12$20b2o$20b2o!
The objects that did not interreact were removed.
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R2INT
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Re: Creating things while a simulation is running

Post by R2INT »

Here is a sequence of dot placements that results in a glider being fired and the block respawning:

Code: Select all

x = 34, y = 5, rule = B3/S23
29bo$10bo20bo$2o8bo19bobo$2o7bobo18bo2bo$10b2o19b2o!
Continuous:

Code: Select all

x = 2, y = 2, rule = B3/S23
2o$2o!
# [[ RLE d o! PASTET 8 PASTE d -1 -1 PASTET 32 PASTE d 0 -2 PASTET 56 PASTE d -2 -3 ]]
EDIT: Here is a way to turn 1 block into 3:

Code: Select all

x = 78, y = 25, rule = B3/S23
69b2o$69b2o7$76bo$75bobo$75bobo$19bo18bo37b2o$7bo11bo16b2obo$2o6b2o8b
obo16bo2bo35bo$2o6b2o9b2o17b2o35bobo$75bobo$76bo7$69b2o$69b2o!
It is pretty easy to destroy blocks with this method. This means that we have a way to move block, and split blocks.

EDIT2: LoM

Code: Select all

x = 81, y = 9, rule = B3/S23
73bo$72bob2o$72bobo$19bo18bo34bo$7bo11bo17bobo$2o6b2o8bobo16b2obo$2o6b
2o9b2o17b2o38b2o$77bo2bo$78b2o!
EDIT3: Firing a glider and disappearing:

Code: Select all

x = 75, y = 13, rule = B3/S23
68bo$67bobo$67bobo$68bo$65bo$19bo18bo24b2o7b2o$7bo11bo17b3o22bo2bo5bo
2bo$2o6b2o8bobo16bo2bo22b2o7b2o$2o6b2o9b2o17b2o$68bo$67bobo$67bobo$68b
o!
Other way of producing a wing:

Code: Select all

x = 41, y = 5, rule = B3/S23
17bo20bo$7bo11bo$2o6b2o8bobo17b2o$2o6b2o9b2o17bobo$39b2o!
EDIT4: Cheaper LoM:

Code: Select all

x = 41, y = 5, rule = B3/S23
17bo22bo$7bo11bo$2o6b2o8bobo17b2o$2o6b2o9b2o17bobo$39b2o!
Some reactions with 1/2 of a blockade:

Code: Select all

x = 356, y = 30, rule = B3/S23
301bo$290b3o7b2o$17bo22bo249b2o8b2o$7bo11bo$2o6b2o8bobo17b2o$2o6b2o9b
2o17bobo250b2o8b2o$39b2o250b2o8b2o4$328bo$292bo7bo$141b2o54b2o19b2o13b
2o11b2o20b2o20b2o8b2o13b2o10b2o10bob2o10b2o$140b3o54b2o19b2o13b2o11b2o
20b3o19b2o8b2o13b2obo8b2o12b2o10b2o$196bo21bo15bo13bo$352bo$142b2o54b
2o19b2o13b2o11b2o20b2o20b2o8b2o13b2o10b2o12b2o10b2o$142b2o54b2o19b2o13b
2o11b2o20b2o20b2o8b2o13b2o10b2o12b2o10b2o6$290bo$291b2o6b3o$291b2o7b2o
3$292b2o7b2o$292b2o7b2o!
I'm pretty sure that this toolkit can be used to construct anything that is glider-synthesizable.
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Re: Creating things while a simulation is running

Post by dvgrn »

R2INT wrote: October 9th, 2025, 12:58 pm I'm pretty sure that this toolkit can be used to construct anything that is glider-synthesizable.
Yup, you've got all the pieces you need.

Back in July eRroR_6o6 posted a block-to-glider conversion that's two steps shorter, and there's a way to place the dot in the penultimate step that produces the final honeyfarm at different offsets, including one cell away (so on a different checkerboard square color). There's also a block-to-2-block variant of the block-to-3-block:

Code: Select all

x = 79, y = 94, rule = LifeHistory
69.2A$69.2A7$76.A$75.A.A$75.A.A$19.A18.A37.A$7.A11.A16.2A.A38.A$2A6.2A
8.A.A16.A2.A35.A$2A6.2A9.2A17.2A35.A.A$75.A.A$76.A7$69.2A$69.2A26$52.
A$51.A.A$51.A.A$52.2A$32.A$33.A13.2A7.2A$11.AD2A17.C.A11.A2.A2.D2.A2.
A$13.2A17.A.A12.2A7.2A$33.A$52.A$51.A.A$51.A.A$52.A19$52.A$51.A.A$51.
A.A$52.2A$33.A$11.AD2A17.C.A12.2A3.D3.2A$13.2A17.A.A11.A2.A5.A2.A$33.
A13.2A7.2A$32.A$52.A$51.A.A$51.A.A$52.A!
The block-to-3-block implies block moves of (11,0) and (11,7). 7 and 11 are relatively prime, so even if we didn't have any other block move recipes at all, we could still get to universal construction:

1) Split a block into two blocks, Block T and Block E (Target and Elbow for the "construction arm").
2) Move block T to a safe distance away from block E, roughly on a diagonal.
3) Figure out a slow-salvo recipe for whatever glider-constructible thing you want.
4) Start firing slow-salvo gliders at block T by repeating step 4 as many times as needed.

5) split block E into two blocks (Block E-Prime and Block G); move Block E-Prime to a good safe place for the next construction-arm elbow operation (can be farther away along the same diagonal); move Block G to the correct lane, then convert it to a glider.

Gamification potential
There's a long series of video games from Dance Dance Revolution all the way back to Dragon's Lair*, where the basic idea is "do whatever the screen tells you to do, as quickly as possible". If someone built out a series of increasingly long sequences of these dot additions, it could turn into a multi-level arcade game that could easily be run in Golly (via the Lua overlay, especially). It wouldn't need a lot of thinking, just clicking wherever the dot appears, or whenever a moving dot changes color or something along those lines. Speed runs could be a thing, I suppose.

... Conway's Life is a zero-player game anyway, so it seems appropriate to extend it into a zero-brain game. Candidate game title: "Pnurflpeef's Pointless Activity".

* They've been planning to make a movie of the adventures of Dirk the Daring and Princess Daphne for about forty years now. Apparently they're still planning.
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R2INT
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Re: Creating things while a simulation is running

Post by R2INT »

dvgrn wrote: October 9th, 2025, 2:56 pm [...]
Gamification potential
[...]
Suggestion: For increased timing difficulty, you could made a reaction that requires you to modify a temporary still life before it gets destroyed. Here is an example of this:

Code: Select all

# Additional placements are shown with state 3 (marked on).
x = 135, y = 31, rule = LifeHistory
124.A$123.2A2B$123.A3B$122.B2A2B2A$122.BABAB2A$120.2BABA4B$119.2B2A7B
$120.B2A2B3A4B$62.B58.B2A2B3A4B$61.BAB51.4B2.5BAB2AB2A$61.ABA50.14BA3B
A$.C12.D45.BABAB48.3B2A8BA4BA$12.C2A45.2BA2B46.4BA2BA7B2A3B$2A10.A2BA
42.9B43.6BABA13BA$2A11.2A41.B2A4BD2B2AB40.8BA10BD3BAB$55.CA2BABD3BA2B
AB38.7BC4BD5BD3BA2BAB$56.B2A7B2AB40.8BA14BAB$58.9B43.6BABA13BA$60.2BA
2B46.4BA2BA7B2A3B$60.BABAB48.3B2A8BA4BA$61.ABA50.14BA3BA$61.BAB51.4B2.
5BAB2AB2A$62.B58.B2A2B3A4B$120.B2A2B3A4B$119.2B2A7B$120.2BABA4B$122.B
ABAB2A$122.B2A2B2A$123.A3B$123.2A2B$124.A!
In this example, you have 18 generations (0.3 seconds) to time the placement of the cell so that it proceeds correctly. However, the problem with this example is that the temporary reaction results in a blinker, so you only have a 50% chance of getting the intended reaction. A better example would likely result in still lives instead of oscillators being placed. (Maybe you can also have the reaction shoot a glider, but you need to initialize the reaction early enough that the spaceship can escape without hitting the chaos.)
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Re: Creating things while a simulation is running

Post by hotcrystal0 »

hotdogPi wrote: June 24th, 2025, 9:11 am If you already have a fishhook and a block on table in this position, you can turn the block on table into a MWSS, while the fishhook survives.

Code: Select all

x = 11, y = 9, rule = B3/S23
2o$bo$bobo$2b2o5b2o$9b2o2$7b4o$7bo2bo$5bo!
Replacing the eater with a toad turns it into a LWSS instead, but the toad needs to be in the correct phase:

Code: Select all

x = 9, y = 7, rule = B3/S23
3o$b3o3b2o$7b2o2$5b4o$5bo2bo$3bo!
138 days until New York's age verification law goes into effect.

Code: Select all

x = 192, y = 53, rule = B3/S23
33$42b4o$41b6o$40b2ob4o$41b2o3$41b2o$39bo6bo$38bo8bo$38bo8bo$38b9o3$42b
4o$41b6o$40b2ob4o$41b2o!
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Re: Creating things while a simulation is running

Post by Antonin Duda »

A super simple and incredibly useful, but also ridiculously inefficient step-wise way to shift a block by one cell.

Code: Select all

x = 31, y = 7, rule = LifeHistory
31F$F5.F5.F5.F5.F5.F$F3.C.F2.A2.F.CA2.F.2A2.F.2A2.F$F.2A2.F.A.A.F.A.A
.F.A.D.F.2A2.F$F.2A2.F.DA2.F2.A2.F2.A2.F5.F$F5.F5.F5.F5.F5.F$31F!
EDIT: I used it to make the bi-block.

Code: Select all

x = 120, y = 8, rule = B3/S23
30b2o8bo9bo$30b2o7bobo7bobo7bobo7b2o8bo9bo$8bo9b2obo7bo10bo8b2o8b2o8b
2o7bobo7bobo7bobo8b2o7b2o$2obo3bobobo5bo2bo47bo10bo9b2o8b2o8b2o7b2o$2o
5bobo7bo2bo$8bo9b2o90bo7b2o$27b2o8b2o8b2o8b2o8b2o8b2o8b2o8b2o8b2o9b2o$
27b2o8b2o8b2o8b2o8b2o8b2o8b2o8b2o8b2o!
EDIT 2: Bi-block to pulsar:

Code: Select all

x = 68, y = 9, rule = B3/S23
43bo22bo$9bo5bo6b2o5b2o4b3o4bobo20bobo$2o5b2o5bobo4bobo4bobo4bobo3bo2b
o19bo2bo$2o5b2o5b2o5b2o5b2o5b2o5b2o21b2o$65bo$2o5b2o5b2o5b2o5b2o5b2o5b
2o21b2o$2o5b2o5b2o5bobo4bobo4bobo4bobo19bo2bo$16bo5bo6b2o5b2o4b3o20bob
o$66bo!
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Re: Creating things while a simulation is running

Post by pifricted »

Block to LoM:

Code: Select all

 x = 44, y = 9, rule = B3/S23
36b2o$35bo2bo$bo8bo11bo13b2o$19b2o$2o7b2o7bo2bo13bo$2o6bo2bo6bo2bo20b
o$9b2o8b2o20bobo$41bobo$42bo!
Moving beehive:

Code: Select all

x = 3, y = 2, rule = B3/S23
b2o$o2bo$b2o!
[[ PASTET EVERY 46 PASTEDELTA -4 -8 PASTE o! 2 -2 ]]
[[ PASTET EVERY 46 2 PASTEDELTA -4 -8 PASTE o! 4 -2 ]]
[[ PASTET EVERY 46 23 PASTEDELTA -4 -8 PASTE o! 0 -6 ]]
[[ PASTET EVERY 46 25 PASTEDELTA -4 -8 PASTE o! 2 -6 ]]

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Re: Creating things while a simulation is running

Post by hotcrystal0 »

If you can time it right, you can lengthen an XWSS:

Code: Select all

x = 7, y = 13, rule = B3/S23
3b2o$2b4o$2b2ob2o$bo2b2o6$2b3o$b5o$b3ob2o$o3b2o!
Not sure if this will be useful for anything because of the timing, though.
138 days until New York's age verification law goes into effect.

Code: Select all

x = 192, y = 53, rule = B3/S23
33$42b4o$41b6o$40b2ob4o$41b2o3$41b2o$39bo6bo$38bo8bo$38bo8bo$38b9o3$42b
4o$41b6o$40b2ob4o$41b2o!
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