ConwayLife.com

Posted: **December 9th, 2023, 4:44 am**

There are some pages collecting fuses:

Are these notable (LW:NB) object-specific article topics?
Are there other good ways to cover the same area?
I think it would help to understand better what are existing alternatives/possibilities, before too many of similar pages are created.

Posted: **December 9th, 2023, 10:11 am**

Blinker and block fuse are notable, but there are too few pond fuses for a page.

Posted: **December 9th, 2023, 7:55 pm**

Haycat2009 wrote: December 9th, 2023, 10:11 am Blinker and block fuse are notable, but there are too few pond fuses for a page.

Diagonal pond fuses is too common.
Else… Marshland agar

Posted: **December 10th, 2023, 1:07 am**

Quantum-mechanics wrote: December 9th, 2023, 7:55 pm
Haycat2009 wrote: December 9th, 2023, 10:11 am Blinker and block fuse are notable, but there are too few pond fuses for a page.
Diagonal pond fuses is too common.
Else… Marshland agar

Since you know some that I do not, you should add them to the wiki.

Posted: **December 10th, 2023, 3:45 am**

Haycat2009 wrote: December 10th, 2023, 1:07 am
Quantum-mechanics wrote: December 9th, 2023, 7:55 pm
Haycat2009 wrote: December 9th, 2023, 10:11 am Blinker and block fuse are notable, but there are too few pond fuses for a page.
Diagonal pond fuses is too common.
Else… Marshland agar
Since you know some that I do not, you should add them to the wiki.

I’m finder of that!!!

Posted: **December 10th, 2023, 8:24 am**

Here's an oblique pond fuse:

Code: Select all

x = 138, y = 27, rule = B3/S23
135b2o$129b2o3bo2bo$123b2o3bo2bo2bo2bo$117b2o3bo2bo2bo2bo3b2o$111b2o3b
o2bo2bo2bo3b2o$105b2o3bo2bo2bo2bo3b2o$99b2o3bo2bo2bo2bo3b2o$93b2o3bo2b
o2bo2bo3b2o$87b2o3bo2bo2bo2bo3b2o$81b2o3bo2bo2bo2bo3b2o$75b2o3bo2bo2bo
2bo3b2o$69b2o3bo2bo2bo2bo3b2o$63b2o3bo2bo2bo2bo3b2o$57b2o3bo2bo2bo2bo
3b2o$51b2o3bo2bo2bo2bo3b2o$45b2o3bo2bo2bo2bo3b2o$39b2o3bo2bo2bo2bo3b2o
$33b2o3bo2bo2bo2bo3b2o$27b2o3bo2bo2bo2bo3b2o$21b2o3bo2bo2bo2bo3b2o$15b
2o3bo2bo2bo2bo3b2o$2bo2bo3b2o3bo2bo2bo2bo3b2o$8bo2bo2bo2bo3b2o$o5bobo
2bo3b2o$6bo2b2o$o3b2o$b3o!

(I made it intentionally so the pond fuse article doesn't get deleted due too being to small)
Diagonal one I made for the same reason:

Code: Select all

x = 51, y = 51, rule = B3/S23
48b2o$47bo2bo$47bo2bo$48b2o$44b2o$43bo2bo$43bo2bo$44b2o$40b2o$39bo2bo$
39bo2bo$40b2o$36b2o$35bo2bo$35bo2bo$36b2o$32b2o$31bo2bo$31bo2bo$32b2o$
28b2o$27bo2bo$27bo2bo$28b2o$24b2o$23bo2bo$23bo2bo$24b2o$20b2o$19bo2bo$
19bo2bo$20b2o$16b2o$15bo2bo$15bo2bo$16b2o$12b2o$11bo2bo$11bo2bo$12b2o$
8b2o$7bo2bo$7bo2bo$8b2o$4b2o$3bo2bo$3bo2bo$o3b2o$2o$obo$b3o!

Terminating the diagonal one with a loaf flips the loaf in a slightly unusual way:

Code: Select all

x = 55, y = 55, rule = B3/S23
52bo$51bobo$51bo2bo$52b2o$48b2o$47bo2bo$47bo2bo$48b2o$44b2o$43bo2bo$43b
o2bo$44b2o$40b2o$39bo2bo$39bo2bo$40b2o$36b2o$35bo2bo$35bo2bo$36b2o$32b
2o$31bo2bo$31bo2bo$32b2o$28b2o$27bo2bo$27bo2bo$28b2o$24b2o$23bo2bo$23b
o2bo$24b2o$20b2o$19bo2bo$19bo2bo$20b2o$16b2o$15bo2bo$15bo2bo$16b2o$12b
2o$11bo2bo$11bo2bo$12b2o$8b2o$7bo2bo$7bo2bo$8b2o$4b2o$3bo2bo$3bo2bo$o
3b2o$2o$obo$b3o!

Posted: **December 10th, 2023, 8:44 am**

Quantum-mechanics wrote: December 10th, 2023, 3:45 am
Haycat2009 wrote: December 10th, 2023, 1:07 am
Quantum-mechanics wrote: December 9th, 2023, 7:55 pm
Diagonal pond fuses is too common.
Else… Marshland agar
Since you know some that I do not, you should add them to the wiki.
I’m finder of that!!!

If you found those, post the rles here and I will add them.

Posted: **December 10th, 2023, 8:53 am**

Haycat2009 wrote: December 10th, 2023, 8:44 am
Quantum-mechanics wrote: December 10th, 2023, 3:45 am
Haycat2009 wrote: December 10th, 2023, 1:07 am

Since you know some that I do not, you should add them to the wiki.
I’m finder of that!!!
If you found those, post the rles here and I will add them.

Add my fuses (above) too, please! I made them for the exact purpose of being added to that page!

Posted: **December 10th, 2023, 8:54 am**

HerscheltheHerschel wrote: December 10th, 2023, 8:53 am
Haycat2009 wrote: December 10th, 2023, 8:44 am
Quantum-mechanics wrote: December 10th, 2023, 3:45 am
I’m finder of that!!!
If you found those, post the rles here and I will add them.
Add my fuses (above) too, please!

Tomorrow. Can you tell me the speed and slope first? (It’s hard to tell)

Posted: **December 10th, 2023, 8:54 am**

Haycat2009 wrote: December 10th, 2023, 8:54 am
HerscheltheHerschel wrote: December 10th, 2023, 8:53 am
Haycat2009 wrote: December 10th, 2023, 8:44 am

If you found those, post the rles here and I will add them.
Add my fuses (above) too, please!
Tomorrow. Can you tell me the speed and slope first? (It’s hard to tell)

Sorry, I'm not good at calculating them. My mind tells me that the diagonal one is c/5, but that might be untrue.

Posted: **December 10th, 2023, 9:19 am**

HerscheltheHerschel wrote: December 10th, 2023, 8:53 am
Haycat2009 wrote: December 10th, 2023, 8:44 am
Quantum-mechanics wrote: December 10th, 2023, 3:45 am
I’m finder of that!!!
If you found those, post the rles here and I will add them.
Add my fuses (above) too, please! I made them for the exact purpose of being added to that page!

Code: Select all

x = 224, y = 68, rule = B3/S23
162b2o$161bo2bo$161bo2bo$162b2ob2o$b2o161bo2bo$o2bo160bo2bo$o2bo161b2o
b2o$b2ob2o161bo2bo$3bo2bo160bo2bo$3bo2bo161b2ob2o$4b2ob2o161bo2bo$6bo
2bo160bo2bo$6bo2bo161b2ob2o$7b2ob2o161bo2bo$9bo2bo160bo2bo$9bo2bo161b
2ob2o$10b2ob2o161bo2bo$12bo2bo160bo2bo$12bo2bo161b2ob2o$13b2ob2o161bo
2bo$15bo2bo160bo2bo$15bo2bo161b2ob2o$16b2ob2o161bo2bo$18bo2bo160bo2bo
$18bo2bo161b2ob2o$19b2ob2o161bo2bo$21bo2bo160bo2bo$21bo2bo161b2ob2o$22b
2ob2o161bo2bo$24bo2bo160bo2bo$24bo2bo161b2ob2o$25b2ob2o161bo2bo$27bo2b
o160bo2bo$27bo2bo161b2ob2o$28b2ob2o161bo2bo$30bo2bo160bo2bo$30bo2bo161b
2ob2o$31b2ob2o161bo2bo$33bo2bo160bo2bo$33bo2bo161b2ob2o$34b2ob2o161bo
2bo$36bo2bo160bo2bo$36bo2bo161b2ob2o$37b2ob2o161bo2bo$39bo2bo160bo2bo
$39bo2bo161b2ob2o$40b2ob2o161bo2bo$42bo2bo160bo2bo$42bo2bo161b2ob2o$43b
2ob2o161bo2bo$45bo2bo160bo2bo$45bo2bo161b2ob2o$46b2ob2o161bo2bo$48bo2b
o160bo2bo$48bo2bo161b2ob2o$49b2ob2o161bo2bo$51bo2bo160bo2bo$51bo2bo161b
2ob2o$52b2ob2o161bo2bo$54bo2bo160bo2bo$54bo2bo161b2obo$55b2ob2o161bob
o$57bo2bo159bo2bo$57bo2bo160b2o$58b2obo$60bobo$59b2obo$60b2o!

Posted: **December 10th, 2023, 9:32 am**

Haycat2009 wrote: December 10th, 2023, 8:54 am
HerscheltheHerschel wrote: December 10th, 2023, 8:53 am
Haycat2009 wrote: December 10th, 2023, 8:44 am

If you found those, post the rles here and I will add them.
Add my fuses (above) too, please!
Tomorrow. Can you tell me the speed and slope first? (It’s hard to tell)

(6,1)c/6 and 4c/5?

Posted: **December 10th, 2023, 9:33 am**

Quantum-mechanics wrote: December 10th, 2023, 9:32 am
Haycat2009 wrote: December 10th, 2023, 8:54 am
HerscheltheHerschel wrote: December 10th, 2023, 8:53 am
Add my fuses (above) too, please!
Tomorrow. Can you tell me the speed and slope first? (It’s hard to tell)
(6,1)c/6 and 4c/5?

Are you calculating the speed of my fuses or your fuses?

Posted: **December 10th, 2023, 9:37 am**

HerscheltheHerschel wrote: December 10th, 2023, 9:33 am
Quantum-mechanics wrote: December 10th, 2023, 9:32 am
Haycat2009 wrote: December 10th, 2023, 8:54 am

Tomorrow. Can you tell me the speed and slope first? (It’s hard to tell)
(6,1)c/6 and 4c/5?
Are you calculating the speed of my fuses or your fuses?

Yours.

Posted: **December 10th, 2023, 1:27 pm**

Just to clarify: this thread is a "LifeWiki discussion" thread. It's supposed to be talking about the question of whether certain fuse article pages actually belong on the LifeWiki -- whether they're notable or not.

The fuse thread would be a much better place to post actual fuses, figure out their period, etc.

Haycat2009 wrote: December 9th, 2023, 10:11 am Blinker and block fuse are notable, but there are too few pond fuses for a page.

I don't like being a wet blanket in cases like this, but maybe I should say that it's not really clear that all blinker or block fuses are always notable -- and the problem with pond fuses is not that there are too few of them to make a page. The problem is that at the moment, there's no reason that I can think of to consider any particular pond fuse to be notable.

Before anybody puts too much work in on this, please remember that there's a notability tag on the Pond fuse article; confocaloid was absolutely right to be worried about the creation of that article.

"Blinker fuse" makes sense -- it documents, among other things, a known and unquestionably notable blinker fuse. Some of the later blinker fuses probably aren't actually notable, like the diagonal ones at the bottom. It would be good if we could avoid adding any more blinker fuses like those, unless there's some reason why they're actually notable that I'm not seeing.

"Block fuse" seems mostly okay, since it mostly documents known block fuses that have been used in larger constructions.

"Pond fuse" I'm thinking should probably be deleted, unfortunately.

Here's the problem
In about an hour, maybe less, someone could write a script that would generate more and more fuses that could reasonably be labeled "pond fuses". The longer the script ran, the more pond fuses it would generate -- hundreds of them, then thousands of them, and then tens of thousands (though hopefully everyone would get bored well before that point.)

We could do the same with any other object you might choose -- ship fuses, loaf fuses, shillelagh fuses, Cthulhu fuses -- but those types of fuses are similarly non-notable, because there's no end to the number of them that could be generated, and none of the examples are likely to be particularly interesting -- until someone finds a larger use for a specific one of them.

Posted: **December 10th, 2023, 1:42 pm**

dvgrn wrote: December 10th, 2023, 1:27 pm
Haycat2009 wrote: December 9th, 2023, 10:11 am Blinker and block fuse are notable, but there are too few pond fuses for a page.
Here's the problem
In about an hour, maybe less, someone could write a script that would generate more and more fuses that could reasonably be labeled "pond fuses". The longer the script ran, the more pond fuses it would generate -- hundreds of them, then thousands of them, and then tens of thousands (though hopefully everyone would get bored well before that point.)

We could do the same with any other object you might choose -- ship fuses, loaf fuses, shillelagh fuses, Cthulhu fuses -- but those types of fuses are similarly non-notable, because there's no end to the number of them that could be generated, and none of the examples are likely to be particularly interesting -- until someone finds a larger use for a specific one of them.

I've been trying to find many pond fuses by hand. I only post the interesting (for example those that produce rare or semi-rare objects, produce a specific object in an interesting/unusual way, has unusual/interesting terminations, and/or is oblique), for the exact reason of protecting the pond fuse article from deletion.

Also, a minor reason to not delete the pond fuse article:
The pond fuse article is currently the only mainspace article mentioning me and deleting it would be a big loss for me.

Posted: **December 10th, 2023, 1:51 pm**

HerscheltheHerschel wrote: December 10th, 2023, 1:42 pm I've been trying to find many pond fuses by hand. I only post the interesting (for example those that produce rare or semi-rare objects, produce a specific object in an interesting/unusual way, has unusual/interesting terminations, and/or is oblique), for the exact reason of protecting the pond fuse article from deletion.

Yup, that's part of the problem. If you think that doing that will help "protect the pond fuse article from deletion", then you don't quite understand what "notability" means yet.

Most likely, if newly discovered fuses like the ones you're describing get added to the pond fuse article, that will help make it clear that that article is is kind of an "attractive nuisance" -- that it's going to keep attracting contributions that aren't really notable or a good idea.

Again, I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news here, but that will just mean the article gets deleted sooner rather than later. Please read my explanation above for why "notability" just doesn't apply to new discoveries that can be generated in huge numbers by anyone that tries for a short time.

There's a very good reason for LifeWiki:Notability rules. Without those rules, the LifeWiki could quickly become terminally cluttered with irrelevant details, and no one would be able to find the notable stuff.

Posted: **December 10th, 2023, 1:55 pm**

dvgrn wrote: December 10th, 2023, 1:51 pm
HerscheltheHerschel wrote: December 10th, 2023, 1:42 pm I've been trying to find many pond fuses by hand. I only post the interesting (for example those that produce rare or semi-rare objects, produce a specific object in an interesting/unusual way, has unusual/interesting terminations, and/or is oblique), for the exact reason of protecting the pond fuse article from deletion.
Yup, that's part of the problem. If you think that doing that will help "protect the pond fuse article from deletion", then you don't quite understand what "notability" means yet.

Most likely, if newly discovered fuses like the ones you're describing get added to the pond fuse article, that will help make it clear that that article is is kind of an "attractive nuisance" -- that it's going to keep attracting contributions that aren't really notable or a good idea.

Again, I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news here, but that will just mean the article gets deleted sooner rather than later. Please read my explanation above for why "notability" just doesn't apply to new discoveries that can be generated in huge numbers by anyone that tries for a short time.

There's a very good reason for LifeWiki:Notability rules. Without those rules, the LifeWiki could quickly become terminally cluttered with irrelevant details, and no one would be able to find the notable stuff.

Sorry if this isn't related, but I edited the latest post in this thread, adding a minor (major for me) reason for not deleting the pond fuse article.

Posted: **December 10th, 2023, 2:11 pm**

To clarify, there might very well be some way to restrict the content of those pages via some objective criteria, so that only few notable fuses get added. But it is not obvious which criteria could work here.

confocaloid wrote: December 9th, 2023, 4:44 am Are there other good ways to cover the same area?
I think it would help to understand better what are existing alternatives/possibilities, before too many of similar pages are created.

Posted: **December 10th, 2023, 2:21 pm**

HerscheltheHerschel wrote: December 10th, 2023, 1:55 pm Sorry if this isn't related, but I edited the latest post in this thread, adding a minor (major for me) reason for not deleting the pond fuse article.

This discussion thread is a fine place to mention things like that. You just posted a new pond fuse as well, which seems to imply you haven't really thoroughly read and thought about my previous post here:

dvgrn wrote: December 10th, 2023, 1:27 pm The fuse thread would be a much better place to post actual fuses, figure out their period, etc.

I moved that post to the other thread. Please pay attention to this kind of feedback -- it's not supposed to be moderators' job to do this kind of thing for you.

We do have people show up now and then that, for one reason or another, really really want to get their name mentioned in a LifeWiki article.

This is something that happens naturally once someone spends enough time making discoveries and contributing to the community. But people who deliberately try to get mentioned, very early on... well, they very often cause issues exactly like this one, where non-notable clutter gets added to the LifeWiki and then has to be removed again.

If we leave a non-notable article like this in place in one case, just to preserve a mention of someone's name, then everyone else would presumably have an equally good claim to LifeWiki space. That isn't workable, so we have rules to avoid that. This isn't a new issue. We've had to have this discussion with a lot of people over the years.

Gustavo was a notable example; try reading through that thread, and see if you can see why we think the notability rules have to be as strict and annoying as they are.

Posted: **December 10th, 2023, 2:28 pm**

Some threads should be read in reverse order

Posted: **December 10th, 2023, 3:29 pm**

While the pond fuse may be useless by itself, like many other fuses, they can be used as a synthesis material.
For example, below is a snake-bridge-domino-bridge-snake yielding reaction discovered by KtT:

Code: Select all

x = 23, y = 10, rule = B3/S23
21bo$20bo$20b3o$b2o3b2o3b2o3b2o$o2bobo2bobo2bobo2bo$o2bobo2bobo2bobo2b
o$b2o3b2o3b2o3b2o$20b3o$20bo$21bo!

Posted: **December 10th, 2023, 6:48 pm**

HerscheltheHerschel wrote: December 10th, 2023, 3:29 pm While the pond fuse may be useless by itself, like many other fuses, they can be used as a synthesis material.
For example, below is a snake-bridge-domino-bridge-snake yielding reaction discovered by KtT...

Yup, and if that reaction makes a cheaper snake-bridge-domino-snake recipe than any other recipe, then it's a fine idea to submit that recipe to Catagolue. Catagolue can record recipes just fine.

Otherwise, it's a nice "Accidental Discovery", but it's still not notable until proven otherwise. So it probably wouldn't belong in an article named "pond fuse", or anywhere else on the LifeWiki.

Posted: **December 11th, 2023, 11:20 am**

Again, a reason to not delete the pond fuse:
Terminating my pond fuse with a beehive creates an interchange and 2 beehives, which can be safely eaten by blocks:

Code: Select all

x = 121, y = 28, rule = B3/S23
118b2o$118b2o11$3ob2o3b2o3b2o3b2o3b2o3b2o3b2o3b2o3b2o3b2o3b2o3b2o3b2o
3b2o3b2o3b2o3b2o3b2o3b2o3b2o3b2o3b2o3b2o3bo$bobo2bobo2bobo2bobo2bobo2b
obo2bobo2bobo2bobo2bobo2bobo2bobo2bobo2bobo2bobo2bobo2bobo2bobo2bobo2b
obo2bobo2bobo2bobo2bobobo$bobo2bobo2bobo2bobo2bobo2bobo2bobo2bobo2bob
o2bobo2bobo2bobo2bobo2bobo2bobo2bobo2bobo2bobo2bobo2bobo2bobo2bobo2bo
bo2bobobo$3ob2o3b2o3b2o3b2o3b2o3b2o3b2o3b2o3b2o3b2o3b2o3b2o3b2o3b2o3b
2o3b2o3b2o3b2o3b2o3b2o3b2o3b2o3b2o3bo11$118b2o$118b2o!

Posted: **December 11th, 2023, 11:47 am**

I see absolutely no use in that fuse.

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