Self-Replicator Competition?

Tezcatlipoca · Post by **Tezcatlipoca** » September 11th, 2014, 12:00 am

Anyone out there also actively building self-replicators in shapeloop? Let's pit them all against each other and see whose takes over!

c0b0p0 · Post by **c0b0p0** » September 14th, 2014, 10:01 pm

Here is a small loop in shapeloop.

Code: Select all

x = 11, y = 8, rule = shapeloop:T250,250
G2DC2DB2DCD$.A8HA$.DH2.2I3HA$.AH2.H5A$.AH2.HA$.AH2.HA$.C4HA$.2DADFA!

By the way, self-replicators in loop rules are normally called loops.

Tezcatlipoca · Post by **Tezcatlipoca** » September 19th, 2014, 8:19 pm

Thanks for sharing. It's been a couple days since I tried to pit it against some other patterns but if I remember correctly it self terminated after a number of generations. (I'd just check but I don't want to interrupt a pattern that's going). If you come upon more I'd love to see them. We need a shape loop "bestiary" like they have for the regular game of life!

pi_guy314 · Post by **pi_guy314** » September 19th, 2014, 11:02 pm

Here are 4 loops that can be used for a competition. You can use different bounding grid sizes to get different results.

Code: Select all

x = 184, y = 188, rule = shapeloop
87.B2DC2DC2D$87.D7HB$87.DH5.HD$87.CH5.HD$83.2DC2DH5.HA$83.B4H6.HA$83.
DH9.HA$83.D4H3.4HA$83.C2DADH.H5A$87.AH.HA$87.DH.HA$87.A3HA$87.DE3A76$
H$KDFDAD$.D3HA$.CH.HD169.2DC2D$.DH.HA169.B3HC$.DH.HDADAD165.DH.HD$.BH
2.4HA165.DH.HD$.DH5.HD161.DC2DCH.HB2D2A$.DH5.HA161.D4H3.4HA$.CH5.HD
161.BH9.HA$.DH5.HA161.D4H3.4HA$.DH5.HD161.DC2DCH.H5A$.AH5.HA165.DH.HA
$.DH5.HD165.DH.HA$.AH5.HD165.B3HA$.DH5.HC165.2DE2A$.AH5.HD$.D7HD$.ADA
DADADA74$86.ADADADAD$86.D6HA$86.AH4.HD$86.DH4.HD$82.2AEDAH4.HC$82.A3H
2I4.HD$82.A10HD$82.7ADC2DB!

I notice that the L-loop alone has a diverse mutations of other similar L-loops loops with different length and height.

Tezcatlipoca · Post by **Tezcatlipoca** » September 20th, 2014, 7:05 pm

Wow, these are great. Symmetry on both axes on one of those. Do you know how hard I have been trying to select for that naturally? It was a huge evolutionary step for us here in real life. It's not very stable though. I guess asymmetry in this system is rewarded because it is harder to exchange code with other asymmetric shapes. So an asymmetric shape makes more perfect copies more often and is rewarded. After 30 minutes something very interesting appeared as well. A reoccurring pattern that that codes for a shape with its gray "backbone" or scaffolding or whatever on the outside. It doesn't code for itself but the code and structure that makes it keeps getting passed on. It has a huge rate of success on interfacing with other extensions. It occurs on its own; i didn't select for it so it must provide might provide some advantage. interesting. I was wondering when we might see cheaters or viruses emerge in this system. I wonder if I select for it, what will happen.

c0b0p0 · Post by **c0b0p0** » September 21st, 2014, 10:08 pm

Tezcatlipoca wrote:Thanks for sharing. It's been a couple days since I tried to pit it against some other patterns but if I remember correctly it self terminated after a number of generations. (I'd just check but I don't want to interrupt a pattern that's going). If you come upon more I'd love to see them. We need a shape loop "bestiary" like they have for the regular game of life!

My loop may not seem impressive when run by itself, but when provoked by enough surrounding loops, it often takes over.

Code: Select all

x = 184, y = 188, rule = shapeloop:T300,300
87.B2DC2DC2D$87.D7HB$87.DH5.HD$87.CH5.HD$83.2DC2DH5.HA$83.B4H6.HA$83.
DH9.HA$83.D4H3.4HA$83.C2DADH.H5A$87.AH.HA$87.DH.HA$87.A3HA$87.DE3A64$
87.G2DC2DB2DCD$88.A8HA$88.DH2.2I3HA$88.AH2.H5A$88.AH2.HA$88.AH2.HA$
88.C4HA$88.2DADFA5$H$KDFDAD$.D3HA$.CH.HD169.2DC2D$.DH.HA169.B3HC$.DH.
HDADAD165.DH.HD$.BH2.4HA165.DH.HD$.DH5.HD161.DC2DCH.HB2D2A$.DH5.HA
161.D4H3.4HA$.CH5.HD161.BH9.HA$.DH5.HA161.D4H3.4HA$.DH5.HD161.DC2DCH.
H5A$.AH5.HA165.DH.HA$.DH5.HD165.DH.HA$.AH5.HD165.B3HA$.DH5.HC165.2DE
2A$.AH5.HD$.D7HD$.ADADADADA74$86.ADADADAD$86.D6HA$86.AH4.HD$86.DH4.HD
$82.2AEDAH4.HC$82.A3H2I4.HD$82.A10HD$82.7ADC2DB!

The loop is finally forced to make an explosive pattern by generation 4,444.

alexv · Post by **alexv** » September 22nd, 2014, 7:48 am

I got some problem with cut T:300,300.
Anyway, now the "competition" may be seen on YouTube for T:400,225
http://youtu.be/MGRPwuVvErs

Alexander

alexv · Post by **alexv** » September 22nd, 2014, 2:25 pm

The "movie" above shows only 10000 steps, but after that mutations are beginning and finally, after about
50 000 steps no one between initial 5 patterns survives and so it could be hardly treated
as competition. The survived loop is mutant:

Code: Select all

x = 16, y = 14, rule = shapeloop
4$2.DCDC2DB2D$2.D7HC$2.A4H2.HD$2.DADADH.HD$6.AH.HE$6.DH.HD$6.A3HA$6.D
ADAD!

On intermediate steps I observed yet another three kinds of mutants:

Code: Select all

x = 24, y = 18, rule = shapeloop
4$10.DB2DC$10.D3HD$10.CH.HA$10.DH.HA$6.B2DCDH.H5A$6.D3H2I2.4HA$6.D10H
JA$6.C2DADA2DADE2A!

Code: Select all

x = 13, y = 9, rule = shapeloop
DEDADADADADAD$D11HA$CH9.HD$DH6.4HA$DH5.HC2DAD$BH5.HD$DH5.HD$D7HA$CD2A
DADAD!

Code: Select all

x = 13, y = 15, rule = shapeloop
2$2.B2DCD$2.D3HD$2.DH.HE$2.CH.HD$2.DH.HADADA$2.AH2.4HA$2.DH5.HA$2.C7H
A$2.D2ADAD3A!

Alexander

bprentice · Post by **bprentice** » September 23rd, 2014, 9:08 am

Alexander,

Here is a detail from one of your examples:

Code: Select all

x = 59, y = 49, rule = shapeloop
44.DC2DF$7.J36.D3HD$4.DCDA36.BH.HA$4.A2HJ36.DH.HD$4.AH38.DH.HAD3A$4.D
H38.CH2.4HA$3ADAH16.DC2DF17.DH5.HA$A4H17.D3HD17.AH3.J2HA$AH20.BH.HA
17.DH3.DADA$A17H4.DH.HD17.CH3.J$ADADADF2DC2DB2DCDADADCDH.HA17.DH$18.C
4H2.HD17.AH$18.DH5.HA17.AH$18.A7HA17.DH$18.ADAD5A9.2DFDA3.AH$36.C3HD
3.DH$36.DH.HA3.AH$36.DH.HD3.AH$36.BH.H5A$36.DH2.4HA$36.DH5.HA$36.C7HD
$36.DADCD2ADA5.DC2DF$50.D3HD$10.DCDADC2DB31.BH.HA$10.A7HD31.DH.HD$10.
AH5.HD31.DH.HAD3A$10.D4H2.HC31.CH2.4HA$10.AD3AH.HD31.DH5.HA$14.AH.HD
31.AH3.J2HA$14.AH.HF31.DH3.DADA$14.A3HD31.CH3.J$14.ADADADAD7ADAD2ADCD
13.DH$19.17HA13.AH$35.HD13.AH$33.I2HC13.DH$33.DB2D13.AH$33.J16.DH$50.
AH$50.AH$42.ADAD5A$42.D7HA$42.FH5.HA$42.DH2.4HD$42.DH.HD2ADA$42.CH.HC
$42.DH.HD$42.D3HA$42.B2DCD!

Brian Prentice

alexv · Post by **alexv** » September 23rd, 2014, 1:12 pm

I suppose, it was from the "B-2 stealth" loop

Code: Select all

x = 13, y = 15, rule = shapeloop
2$2.B2DCD$2.D3HD$2.DH.HE$2.CH.HD$2.DH.HADADA$2.AH2.4HA$2.DH5.HA$2.C7H
A$2.D2ADAD3A!

I did not guess, that particular with this detail, but "stealth" indeed looked most "creative" for me,
e.g. simplification of loops is quite common, but this one may generate bigger loop:

Code: Select all

x = 22, y = 17, rule = shapeloop
4$2.DADADADADADADADA$2.E14HD$2.DH12.HA$2.DH9.4HC$2.CH8.HADA2D$2.DH8.H
D$2.DH8.HA$2.B10HD$2.2DCADADADADA!

Alexander

PS. To be more precise: if to set initial loop in position near (0,0) then after about ~23000 steps
near position (-270,-180) appears small colony of the bigger loops I mentioned, but they exist only
during ~2500 steps due to active interference with big amount of initial loops.

c0b0p0 · Post by **c0b0p0** » September 24th, 2014, 10:30 pm

alexv wrote:I got some problem with cut T:300,300.
Anyway, now the "competition" may be seen on YouTube for T:400,225
http://youtu.be/MGRPwuVvErs

Try running the pattern below.

Code: Select all

x = 346, y = 188, rule = shapeloop:T400,225
158.B2DC2DC2D$158.D7HB$158.DH5.HD$158.CH5.HD$154.2DC2DH5.HA$154.B4H6.
HA$154.DH9.HA$154.D4H3.4HA$154.C2DADH.H5A$158.AH.HA$158.DH.HA$158.A3H
A$158.DE3A64$158.G2DC2DB2DCD$H158.A8HA$KDFDAD153.DH2.2I3HA$.D3HA153.A
H2.H5A$.CH.HD153.AH2.HA$.DH.HA153.AH2.HA$.DH.HDADAD149.C4HA$.BH2.4HA
149.2DADFA$.DH5.HD$.DH5.HA$.CH5.HD$.DH5.HA$.DH5.HD$.AH5.HA$.DH5.HD$.A
H5.HD327.2DC2D$.DH5.HC327.B3HC$.AH5.HD327.DH.HD$.D7HD327.DH.HD$.ADADA
DADA323.DC2DCH.HB2D2A$333.D4H3.4HA$333.BH9.HA$333.D4H3.4HA$333.DC2DCH
.H5A$337.DH.HA$337.DH.HA$337.B3HA$337.2DE2A77$157.ADADADAD$157.D6HA$
157.AH4.HD$157.DH4.HD$153.2AEDAH4.HC$153.A3H2I4.HD$153.A10HD$153.7ADC
2DB!

During the competition a mutant loop appeared. Here is a competition between that loop and the other loops.

Code: Select all

x = 97, y = 127, rule = shapeloop:K400,225*
64.H$64.KDFDAD$65.D3HA$65.CH.HD$65.DH.HA$65.DH.HDADAD$65.BH2.4HA$65.D
H5.HD$65.DH5.HA$65.CH5.HD$65.DH5.HA$65.DH5.HD$65.AH5.HA$65.DH5.HD$65.
AH5.HD$65.DH5.HC$65.AH5.HD$65.D7HD$65.ADADADADA21$59.B2DC2DC2D$59.D7H
B$59.DH5.HD$59.CH5.HD$55.2DC2DH5.HA$55.B4H6.HA$55.DH9.HA$G2DC2DB2DCD
44.D4H3.4HA$.A8HA44.C2DADH.H5A$.DH2.2I3HA48.AH.HA$.AH2.H5A48.DH.HA$.A
H2.HA52.A3HA$.AH2.HA52.DE3A$.C4HA$.2DADFA23$81.KH$72.10A$72.A8HF$72.D
H2.2I3HD$72.CH2.H3ACA$72.D4HD$72.DBC2DA8$21.ADADADAD$21.D6HA$21.AH4.H
D$21.DH4.HD$17.2AEDAH4.HC$17.A3H2I4.HD$17.A10HD$17.7ADC2DB17$88.2DC2D
$88.B3HC$88.DH.HD$88.DH.HD$84.DC2DCH.HB2D2A$84.D4H3.4HA$84.BH9.HA$84.
D4H3.4HA$84.DC2DCH.H5A$88.DH.HA$88.DH.HA$88.B3HA$88.2DE2A!

As before, the survivor is a mutant, shown below.

Code: Select all

x = 6, y = 11, rule = shapeloop:K400,225*
B2DC$C2HD$DHIA$C2HA$BHI3A$CHI2HA$DH2JHA$A2H3A$DJHA$2ADF$G!

Including the mutant, the competition quickly terminates.

Code: Select all

x = 169, y = 127, rule = shapeloop:K400,225*
136.H$136.KDFDAD$137.D3HA$137.CH.HD$137.DH.HA$137.DH.HDADAD$137.BH2.
4HA$137.DH5.HD$137.DH5.HA$137.CH5.HD$137.DH5.HA$137.DH5.HD$137.AH5.HA
$137.DH5.HD$137.AH5.HD$137.DH5.HC$137.AH5.HD$137.D7HD$137.ADADADADA
21$131.B2DC2DC2D$131.D7HB$131.DH5.HD$131.CH5.HD$127.2DC2DH5.HA$B2DC
123.B4H6.HA$C2HD123.DH9.HA$DHIA123.D4H3.4HA$C2HA123.C2DADH.H5A$BHI3A
125.AH.HA$CHI2HA125.DH.HA$DH2JHA125.A3HA$A2H3A125.DE3A$DJHA$2ADF$G22$
153.KH$144.10A$144.A8HF$144.DH2.2I3HD$144.CH2.H3ACA$144.D4HD$144.DBC
2DA8$93.ADADADAD$93.D6HA$93.AH4.HD$93.DH4.HD$89.2AEDAH4.HC$89.A3H2I4.
HD$89.A10HD$89.7ADC2DB17$160.2DC2D$160.B3HC$160.DH.HD$160.DH.HD$156.D
C2DCH.HB2D2A$156.D4H3.4HA$156.BH9.HA$156.D4H3.4HA$156.DC2DCH.H5A$160.
DH.HA$160.DH.HA$160.B3HA$160.2DE2A!

alexv · Post by **alexv** » September 25th, 2014, 5:33 am

I think, for such competitions may be used bounded version of shapeloop rule

Code: Select all

@RULE shapeloop-b
1 wire
2 left signal
3 right signal
4 forward signal
5 trigger right
6 idle right
7 converter
8 lead
9 edge 1
10 edge 2
11 starter
12 tempdel
13 delall
14 boundary
@TABLE
n_states:15
neighborhood:Moore
symmetries:rotate4
var a={0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14}
var b={1,2,3,4,5,6}
var c={9,10}
var d={1,2,3,4,5,6,7,10,11}
var e={1,2,3,4,5,6,11}
var f={0,8,9,10,13}
var g={8,9,10}
var h={0,8,10}
var i={0,9}
var j={3,5,6}
var k={1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11}
var l={9,10}
var aa={a}
var ab={a}
var ac={a}
var ad={a}
var ae={a}
var af={a}
var ag={a}
var ba={b}
var bb={b}
var bc={b}
var bd={b}
var bd={b}
var ca={c}
var da={d}
var db={d}
var dc={d}
var dd={d}
var fa={f}
var fb={f}
var ga={g}
var gb={g}
var gc={g}
var la={l}
var b0={0,14}
#construct left
c,b0,a,8,b,2,b0,b0,b0,8
c,2,b,b0,f,fa,fb,b0,b0,4
c,b0,a,aa,8,8,b,4,b0,8
0,b0,2,c,f,fa,a,aa,ab,10
0,b,ba,b0,a,aa,ab,c,2,c
9,b,ba,b0,a,f,fa,4,bb,0
0,b0,c,2,ca,b0,a,aa,ab,8
0,4,f,fa,a,aa,ab,8,b,8
#construct right
c,f,fa,8,b,j,b0,b0,fb,4
c,j,b,h,a,aa,ab,b0,b0,h
8,a,aa,8,b,ba,j,c,ab,c
c,f,fa,8,b,ba,bb,4,fb,8
0,f,fa,c,j,b0,a,aa,ab,10
f,a,aa,fa,8,4,c,fb,ab,1
f,a,aa,h,8,8,4,fa,ab,9
#construct forward
c,b0,a,8,e,4,f,fa,fb,8
c,4,e,h,a,aa,ab,f,fa,h
c,4,e,b,a,aa,ab,f,fa,0
f,fa,c,4,ca,fb,a,aa,ab,1
f,a,h,c,4,fb,aa,ab,ac,c
f,fa,4,c,h,fb,a,aa,ab,c
#tempdel
12,a,aa,ab,ac,ad,ae,af,ag,0
#arm destruction
l,b,ba,bb,bc,b0,b0,g,bd,12
b,b0,b0,ba,bb,12,g,bc,b0,12
g,b,ba,12,b0,b0,a,aa,ab,12
b,b0,b0,12,b0,12,g,ba,b0,12
#square loop destruction
b,ba,bb,9,8,bc,b0,10,bd,13
#special lead transition
l,a,aa,la,b,ba,bb,8,ab,8
l,a,aa,8,b,ba,bb,la,ab,8
10,8,b,ba,bb,bc,bd,8,b0,8
#delete immunity
g,a,aa,ab,ac,1,b,b0,ad,g
g,1,a,aa,ab,ac,ad,8,b,g
b,g,a,aa,ab,ga,8,ba,b0,ba
#delete
k,13,a,aa,ab,ac,ad,ae,af,13
k,a,13,aa,ab,ac,ad,ae,af,13
k,a,aa,13,ab,ac,ad,ae,af,13
13,a,aa,ab,ac,ad,ae,af,ag,0
#trigger right
b,5,b0,b0,i,b0,b0,ba,g,6
#converter
0,b,ba,12,12,12,10,10,10,7
b,b0,b0,12,b0,ba,bb,10,10,7
b,ba,g,6,b0,7,a,b0,b0,5
7,5,b,b0,b0,b0,a,aa,b0,0
b,b0,a,7,b0,ba,8,6,b0,5
7,a,aa,b0,b0,b0,b,5,b0,0
0,b0,b0,b,ba,b0,b0,12,b0,7
b,b0,b0,12,b0,12,b0,ba,bb,7
11,b0,b0,12,b0,12,ba,bb,b0,7
#starter growth
1,b0,a,b,aa,8,8,11,b0,4
4,b0,a,b,aa,8,8,11,b0,1
#special signal movement
b,ba,bb,9,8,bc,b0,9,12,bc
b,ba,e,8,b0,bb,8,8,bc,ba
b,ba,8,b0,b0,bb,8,8,8,ba
b,b0,b0,e,8,ba,8,bb,b0,bb
b,b0,b0,ba,g,bb,g,bc,b0,bc
b,ba,9,bb,8,8,8,bc,9,ba
b,9,b0,ba,8,8,8,bb,bc,bb
#signal movement
b,ba,a,aa,ab,ac,ad,g,ae,ba
b,a,aa,ab,ac,g,ga,ba,ad,ba
b,a,aa,ab,ac,ad,g,ba,ae,ba
b,b0,a,aa,ab,ac,ad,g,ae,1
b,a,aa,ab,ac,g,ga,b0,ad,1
b,a,aa,ab,ac,ad,g,b0,ae,1
#arm obstruction detection
0,b0,d,a,aa,b0,g,1,ga,13
0,b0,a,d,aa,b0,g,1,ga,13
0,b0,a,aa,d,b0,g,1,ga,13
0,b0,d,a,aa,b0,1,g,b0,13
0,b0,a,aa,d,b0,b0,9,1,13
#starter
0,b0,b0,b0,b0,b0,i,b,5,11
0,11,b0,b0,b0,b0,b0,b0,6,8
0,b0,b0,b0,b0,b0,b0,8,11,9
0,b0,b0,b0,b0,b0,8,11,b0,1
1,b0,b0,b0,b0,9,8,11,b0,4
0,b0,b0,b0,b0,1,11,b0,b0,9
11,b0,b0,b,8,8,b0,6,ba,6
#boundary
14,a,aa,ab,ac,ad,ae,af,ag,14
@COLORS
0 0 0 0
1 255 128 0
2 255 0 0
3 0 255 0
4 0 0 255
5 0 190 0
6 0 140 0
7 255 255 255
8 80 80 80
9 95 95 95
10 128 128 128
11 0 64 0
12 224 224 0
13 240 240 0
14 64 48 48

for example:

Code: Select all

x = 470, y = 307, rule = shapeloop-b
470N$470N$470N$470N$5N461.4N$5N461.4N$5N461.4N$5N461.4N$5N461.4N$5N
461.4N$5N461.4N$5N461.4N$5N461.4N$5N461.4N$5N461.4N$5N461.4N$5N461.4N
$5N461.4N$5N461.4N$5N461.4N$5N461.4N$5N461.4N$5N461.4N$5N461.4N$5N
461.4N$5N461.4N$5N461.4N$5N461.4N$5N461.4N$5N461.4N$5N461.4N$5N461.4N
$5N461.4N$5N461.4N$5N461.4N$5N461.4N$5N461.4N$5N461.4N$5N461.4N$5N
461.4N$5N461.4N$5N461.4N$5N461.4N$5N461.4N$5N461.4N$5N461.4N$5N461.4N
$5N461.4N$5N461.4N$5N461.4N$5N461.4N$5N461.4N$5N461.4N$5N461.4N$5N
461.4N$5N461.4N$5N227.B2DC2DC2D225.4N$5N227.D7HB225.4N$5N227.DH5.HD
225.4N$5N227.CH5.HD225.4N$5N223.2DC2DH5.HA225.4N$5N223.B4H6.HA225.4N$
5N223.DH9.HA225.4N$5N223.D4H3.4HA225.4N$5N223.C2DADH.H5A225.4N$5N227.
AH.HA229.4N$5N227.DH.HA229.4N$5N227.A3HA229.4N$5N227.DE3A229.4N$5N
461.4N$5N461.4N$5N461.4N$5N461.4N$5N461.4N$5N461.4N$5N461.4N$5N461.4N
$5N461.4N$5N461.4N$5N461.4N$5N461.4N$5N461.4N$5N461.4N$5N461.4N$5N
461.4N$5N461.4N$5N461.4N$5N461.4N$5N461.4N$5N461.4N$5N461.4N$5N461.4N
$5N461.4N$5N461.4N$5N461.4N$5N461.4N$5N461.4N$5N461.4N$5N461.4N$5N
461.4N$5N461.4N$5N461.4N$5N461.4N$5N461.4N$5N461.4N$5N461.4N$5N461.4N
$5N461.4N$5N461.4N$5N461.4N$5N461.4N$5N461.4N$5N461.4N$5N461.4N$5N
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$470N!

Alexander

c0b0p0 · Post by **c0b0p0** » September 25th, 2014, 9:17 pm

If one slightly modifies the boundary, a large loop appears just after the end of the competition, shown below.

Code: Select all

x = 14, y = 15, rule = shapeloop-b
2.A3DBA$2.D4HF$2.AH2.HDA2DC2A$2.AH3.6HA$2.AH8.HD$2.CH8.HA$A2DH7.2HD$D
2H7.HB2D$FH8.HA$AH8.HF$B6H3.HD$3DAD2AH2.HA$6.A4HD$6.D3ACD$6.G!

Post by **dvgrn** » September 25th, 2014, 10:54 pm

alexv wrote:I think, for such competitions may be used bounded version of shapeloop rule...

Oh, of course! Why didn't I think of that instead of going on about how slow Golly was at emulating bounded universes? This trick basically avoids most of the speed reduction of the bounded-universe implementation in Golly, while also allowing many new and interesting experiments, such as:

Code: Select all

#C competition in ten connected arenas
x = 925, y = 1510, rule = shapeloop-b
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461.N461.N$925N!

The various ecological niches seem to give at least a little protection to whichever species arrives first, so after 190K ticks I can still see half a dozen species vying for supremacy in one arena or another -- and I only started with five species...!

alexv · Post by **alexv** » September 26th, 2014, 7:08 am

I only should mention, that maybe redefinition I used is an overkill, because it was enough to add new state
(boundary) without any change of rule. Instead of that I defined new items to treat boundary and empty
state in the same way ... but missed some entries with empty state defined as variables.
A complete (I hope) realization of such idea is

Code: Select all

@RULE shapeloop-ltd
1 wire
2 left signal
3 right signal
4 forward signal
5 trigger right
6 idle right
7 converter
8 lead
9 edge 1
10 edge 2
11 starter
12 tempdel
13 delall
14 boundary
@TABLE
n_states:15
neighborhood:Moore
symmetries:rotate4
var a={0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14}
var b={1,2,3,4,5,6}
var c={9,10}
var d={1,2,3,4,5,6,7,10,11}
var e={1,2,3,4,5,6,11}
var f={0,8,9,10,13}
var f0={0,8,9,10,13,14}
var g={8,9,10}
var h0={0,8,10,14}
var h={0,8,10}
var i0={0,9,14}
var i={0,9}
var j={3,5,6}
var k={1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11}
var l={9,10}
var aa={a}
var ab={a}
var ac={a}
var ad={a}
var ae={a}
var af={a}
var ag={a}
var ba={b}
var bb={b}
var bc={b}
var bd={b}
var bd={b}
var ca={c}
var da={d}
var db={d}
var dc={d}
var dd={d}
var fa={f}
var fb={f}
var ga={g}
var gb={g}
var gc={g}
var la={l}
var b0={0,14}
#construct left
c,b0,a,8,b,2,b0,b0,b0,8
c,2,b,b0,f0,fa,fb,b0,b0,4
c,b0,a,aa,8,8,b,4,b0,8
0,b0,2,c,f0,fa,a,aa,ab,10
0,b,ba,b0,a,aa,ab,c,2,c
9,b,ba,b0,a,f0,fa,4,bb,0
0,b0,c,2,ca,b0,a,aa,ab,8
0,4,f0,fa,a,aa,ab,8,b,8
#construct right
c,f0,fa,8,b,j,b0,b0,fb,4
c,j,b,h,a,aa,ab,b0,b0,h
c,j,b,14,a,aa,ab,b0,b0,0
8,a,aa,8,b,ba,j,c,ab,c
c,f0,fa,8,b,ba,bb,4,fb,8
0,f0,fa,c,j,b0,a,aa,ab,10
f,a,aa,fa,8,4,c,fb,ab,1
f,a,aa,h0,8,8,4,fa,ab,9
#construct forward
c,b0,a,8,e,4,f0,fa,fb,8
c,4,e,h,a,aa,ab,f0,fa,h
c,4,e,14,a,aa,ab,f0,fa,0
c,4,e,b,a,aa,ab,f0,fa,0
f,fa,c,4,ca,fb,a,aa,ab,1
f,a,h0,c,4,fb,aa,ab,ac,c
f,fa,4,c,h0,fb,a,aa,ab,c
#tempdel
12,a,aa,ab,ac,ad,ae,af,ag,0
#arm destruction
l,b,ba,bb,bc,b0,b0,g,bd,12
b,b0,b0,ba,bb,12,g,bc,b0,12
g,b,ba,12,b0,b0,a,aa,ab,12
b,b0,b0,12,b0,12,g,ba,b0,12
#square loop destruction
b,ba,bb,9,8,bc,b0,10,bd,13
#special lead transition
l,a,aa,la,b,ba,bb,8,ab,8
l,a,aa,8,b,ba,bb,la,ab,8
10,8,b,ba,bb,bc,bd,8,b0,8
#delete immunity
g,a,aa,ab,ac,1,b,b0,ad,g
g,1,a,aa,ab,ac,ad,8,b,g
b,g,a,aa,ab,ga,8,ba,b0,ba
#delete
k,13,a,aa,ab,ac,ad,ae,af,13
k,a,13,aa,ab,ac,ad,ae,af,13
k,a,aa,13,ab,ac,ad,ae,af,13
13,a,aa,ab,ac,ad,ae,af,ag,0
#trigger right
b,5,b0,b0,i0,b0,b0,ba,g,6
#converter
0,b,ba,12,12,12,10,10,10,7
b,b0,b0,12,b0,ba,bb,10,10,7
b,ba,g,6,b0,7,a,b0,b0,5
7,5,b,b0,b0,b0,a,aa,b0,0
b,b0,a,7,b0,ba,8,6,b0,5
7,a,aa,b0,b0,b0,b,5,b0,0
0,b0,b0,b,ba,b0,b0,12,b0,7
b,b0,b0,12,b0,12,b0,ba,bb,7
11,b0,b0,12,b0,12,ba,bb,b0,7
#starter growth
1,b0,a,b,aa,8,8,11,b0,4
4,b0,a,b,aa,8,8,11,b0,1
#special signal movement
b,ba,bb,9,8,bc,b0,9,12,bc
b,ba,e,8,b0,bb,8,8,bc,ba
b,ba,8,b0,b0,bb,8,8,8,ba
b,b0,b0,e,8,ba,8,bb,b0,bb
b,b0,b0,ba,g,bb,g,bc,b0,bc
b,ba,9,bb,8,8,8,bc,9,ba
b,9,b0,ba,8,8,8,bb,bc,bb
#signal movement
b,ba,a,aa,ab,ac,ad,g,ae,ba
b,a,aa,ab,ac,g,ga,ba,ad,ba
b,a,aa,ab,ac,ad,g,ba,ae,ba
b,b0,a,aa,ab,ac,ad,g,ae,1
b,a,aa,ab,ac,g,ga,b0,ad,1
b,a,aa,ab,ac,ad,g,b0,ae,1
#arm obstruction detection
0,b0,d,a,aa,b0,g,1,ga,13
0,b0,a,d,aa,b0,g,1,ga,13
0,b0,a,aa,d,b0,g,1,ga,13
0,b0,d,a,aa,b0,1,g,b0,13
0,b0,a,aa,d,b0,b0,9,1,13
#starter
0,b0,b0,b0,b0,b0,i0,b,5,11
0,11,b0,b0,b0,b0,b0,b0,6,8
0,b0,b0,b0,b0,b0,b0,8,11,9
0,b0,b0,b0,b0,b0,8,11,b0,1
1,b0,b0,b0,b0,9,8,11,b0,4
0,b0,b0,b0,b0,1,11,b0,b0,9
11,b0,b0,b,8,8,b0,6,ba,6
#boundary
14,a,aa,ab,ac,ad,ae,af,ag,14
@COLORS
0 0 0 0
1 255 128 0
2 255 0 0
3 0 255 0
4 0 0 255
5 0 190 0
6 0 140 0
7 255 255 255
8 80 80 80
9 95 95 95
10 128 128 128
11 0 64 0
12 224 224 0
13 240 240 0
14 64 48 48

yet looking briefly on evolution I did not mentioned change of behavior near boundary.

Alexander

alexv · Post by **alexv** » September 26th, 2014, 8:24 am

Comparing shapeloop-ltd and shapeloop-b for the same initial configuration on ten connected arenas, I found
that shapeloop-ltd produces less obstacles for distribution of loops:

: shapeloops2.gif (52.64 KiB) Viewed 21800 times

Post by **dvgrn** » September 26th, 2014, 8:48 am

I haven't quite figured out the change in boundary behavior between shapeloop-b and shapeloop-ltd, but (EDIT: as alexv has illustrated,) it definitely makes a difference to the sample 10-habitat ecological experiment I posted yesterday. The large loop species to the north now gets overtaken by the most competitive smaller loop right away, instead of having a chance to expand into new territory.

However, the new experiment turns out fairly interesting anyway -- by T=125000 there are still at least four species, including a new mutant that takes over the southeast corner. I suspect that one will outcompete everything else on the board eventually, unless an even more aggressive mutant comes along -- but it will take a while!

Code: Select all

x = 925, y = 1510, rule = shapeloop-ltd
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alexv · Post by **alexv** » September 26th, 2014, 9:05 am

Yes, I used the same ecological experiment in the pictures above. Formally, shapeloop-ltd should have
less sensitivity to presence of boundary because ruletable may not distinguish that from empty cell,
but shapeloop-b for some configuration may do that. Why it may produce advantages for bigger loop?
Almost no ideas.

Post by **dvgrn** » September 26th, 2014, 9:21 am

alexv wrote:Yes, I used the same ecological experiment in the pictures above. Formally, shapeloop-ltd should have
less sensitivity to presence of boundary because ruletable may not distinguish that from empty cell,
but shapeloop-b for some configuration may do that. Why it may produce advantages for bigger loop?
Almost no ideas.

Probably just bad luck for the shapeloop-ltd northern species.

We could try, say, a hundred experiments in shapeloop-ltd and shapeloop-b (and whatever other minor variants we can come up with) with the initial position of that loop moved (-5..4,-5..4). It might well turn out that there's not much statistical difference between the two rules as far as average survivability is concerned.

In the original shapeloop-b pattern, I had to randomly adjust the locations of the gaps between habitats for a while. Eventually I happened to get the behavior I wanted, where two of the bigger less competitive species managed to escape into a new habitat before the most aggressive loop took over the initial southwest habitat completely. So it really wasn't just random chance that the big ones were placed to escape into empty habitats in shapeloop-b; most likely we could do a similar placement for shapeloop-ltd.

alexv · Post by **alexv** » September 26th, 2014, 9:30 am

BTW, I have checked minimal modification of initial rule I mentioned earlier, i.e.

Code: Select all

@RULE shapeloop-a
1 wire
2 left signal
3 right signal
4 forward signal
5 trigger right
6 idle right
7 converter
8 lead
9 edge 1
10 edge 2
11 starter
12 tempdel
13 delall
@TABLE
n_states:15
neighborhood:Moore
symmetries:rotate4
Var a={0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13}
Var b={1,2,3,4,5,6}
var c={9,10}
var d={1,2,3,4,5,6,7,10,11}
var e={1,2,3,4,5,6,11}
var f={0,8,9,10,13}
var g={8,9,10}
var h={0,8,10}
var i={0,9}
var j={3,5,6}
var k={1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11}
var l={9,10}
var aa={a}
var ab={a}
var ac={a}
var ad={a}
var ae={a}
var af={a}
var ag={a}
var ba={b}
var bb={b}
var bc={b}
var bd={b}
var bd={b}
var ca={c}
var da={d}
var db={d}
var dc={d}
var dd={d}
var fa={f}
var fb={f}
var ga={g}
var gb={g}
var gc={g}
var la={l}
#construct left
c,0,a,8,b,2,0,0,0,8
c,2,b,0,f,fa,fb,0,0,4
c,0,a,aa,8,8,b,4,0,8
0,0,2,c,f,fa,a,aa,ab,10
0,b,ba,0,a,aa,ab,c,2,c
9,b,ba,0,a,f,fa,4,bb,0
0,0,c,2,ca,0,a,aa,ab,8
0,4,f,fa,a,aa,ab,8,b,8
#construct right
c,f,fa,8,b,j,0,0,fb,4
c,j,b,h,a,aa,ab,0,0,h
8,a,aa,8,b,ba,j,c,ab,c
c,f,fa,8,b,ba,bb,4,fb,8
0,f,fa,c,j,0,a,aa,ab,10
f,a,aa,fa,8,4,c,fb,ab,1
f,a,aa,h,8,8,4,fa,ab,9
#construct forward
c,0,a,8,e,4,f,fa,fb,8
c,4,e,h,a,aa,ab,f,fa,h
c,4,e,b,a,aa,ab,f,fa,0
f,fa,c,4,ca,fb,a,aa,ab,1
f,a,h,c,4,fb,aa,ab,ac,c
f,fa,4,c,h,fb,a,aa,ab,c
#tempdel
12,a,aa,ab,ac,ad,ae,af,ag,0
#arm destruction
l,b,ba,bb,bc,0,0,g,bd,12
b,0,0,ba,bb,12,g,bc,0,12
g,b,ba,12,0,0,a,aa,ab,12
b,0,0,12,0,12,g,ba,0,12
#square loop destruction
b,ba,bb,9,8,bc,0,10,bd,13
#special lead transition
l,a,aa,la,b,ba,bb,8,ab,8
l,a,aa,8,b,ba,bb,la,ab,8
10,8,b,ba,bb,bc,bd,8,0,8
#delete immunity
g,a,aa,ab,ac,1,b,0,ad,g
g,1,a,aa,ab,ac,ad,8,b,g
b,g,a,aa,ab,ga,8,ba,0,ba
#delete
k,13,a,aa,ab,ac,ad,ae,af,13
k,a,13,aa,ab,ac,ad,ae,af,13
k,a,aa,13,ab,ac,ad,ae,af,13
13,a,aa,ab,ac,ad,ae,af,ag,0
#trigger right
b,5,0,0,i,0,0,ba,g,6
#converter
0,b,ba,12,12,12,10,10,10,7
b,0,0,12,0,ba,bb,10,10,7
b,ba,g,6,0,7,a,0,0,5
7,5,b,0,0,0,a,aa,0,0
b,0,a,7,0,ba,8,6,0,5
7,a,aa,0,0,0,b,5,0,0
0,0,0,b,ba,0,0,12,0,7
b,0,0,12,0,12,0,ba,bb,7
11,0,0,12,0,12,ba,bb,0,7
#starter growth
1,0,a,b,aa,8,8,11,0,4
4,0,a,b,aa,8,8,11,0,1
#special signal movement
b,ba,bb,9,8,bc,0,9,12,bc
b,ba,e,8,0,bb,8,8,bc,ba
b,ba,8,0,0,bb,8,8,8,ba
b,0,0,e,8,ba,8,bb,0,bb
b,0,0,ba,g,bb,g,bc,0,bc
b,ba,9,bb,8,8,8,bc,9,ba
b,9,0,ba,8,8,8,bb,bc,bb
#signal movement
b,ba,a,aa,ab,ac,ad,g,ae,ba
b,a,aa,ab,ac,g,ga,ba,ad,ba
b,a,aa,ab,ac,ad,g,ba,ae,ba
b,0,a,aa,ab,ac,ad,g,ae,1
b,a,aa,ab,ac,g,ga,0,ad,1
b,a,aa,ab,ac,ad,g,0,ae,1
#arm obstruction detection
0,0,d,a,aa,0,g,1,ga,13
0,0,a,d,aa,0,g,1,ga,13
0,0,a,aa,d,0,g,1,ga,13
0,0,d,a,aa,0,1,g,0,13
0,0,a,aa,d,0,0,9,1,13
#starter
0,0,0,0,0,0,i,b,5,11
0,11,0,0,0,0,0,0,6,8
0,0,0,0,0,0,0,8,11,9
0,0,0,0,0,0,8,11,0,1
1,0,0,0,0,9,8,11,0,4
0,0,0,0,0,1,11,0,0,9
11,0,0,b,8,8,0,6,ba,6
@COLORS
0 0 0 0
1 255 128 0
2 255 0 0
3 0 255 0
4 0 0 255
5 0 190 0
6 0 140 0
7 255 255 255
8 80 80 80
9 95 95 95
10 128 128 128
11 0 64 0

It indeed produces slightly slower distribution even in comparison with shapeloop-b. For example for generation
90000 only cross-shaped loops enter the last arena.

Post by **dvgrn** » September 26th, 2014, 11:42 am

Okay, my entry for the self-replicator competition is the tiny loop that happened to evolve after 100K ticks, in the southeast corner of my trial shapeloop-ltd arena. I think I'll call it a "SquareL":

Code: Select all

#C sample wild SquareL collected from shapeloop-ltd experiment
x = 10, y = 13, rule = shapeloop-ltd
2$2.6A$2.A4HA$2.AH2.HE$2.AH2.HD$2.A2HIHA$2.DCDIHC$4.DIHA$4.B2HA$4.C2H
A$4.2DAD!

It seems equally happy in shapeloop-a, and most likely shapeloop-b and other variants as well. It's not even a competition with the original loops -- they're immediately overwhelmed:

Code: Select all

x = 925, y = 1510, rule = shapeloop-a
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461.N$N237.AH222.N461.N$N237.DH222.N461.N$N237.AH222.N461.N$N237.DH
222.N461.N$N237.FH222.N461.N$N237.AH222.N461.N$N228.10A223.N461.N$N
50.I19H158.D8HA223.N461.N$N50.2ADADADADADADADF2DC3DC2D153.CH2.2I3HF
223.N461.N$N50.I19.B3HF153.DH2.HC2DAD223.N461.N$N70.DH.HD153.DH2.HA
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$N70.DH5.HD844.N$N70.AH5.HA844.N$N70.DH5.HD844.N$N70.AH5.HA844.N$N70.
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512.N$N405.HA516.N$N405.HA516.N$N405.HA516.N$N405.HF516.N$N405.HD516.
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405.HD516.N$N405.HA516.N$N405.HD516.N$N405.HA516.N$N405.HD516.N$N405.
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N923.N$N923.N$N923.N$N923.N$N923.N$N923.N$N923.N$N923.N$N461.N461.N$N
461.N461.N$N461.N461.N$N461.N461.N$N461.N461.N$N461.N461.N$N461.N461.
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461.N$N226.DH4.HA227.N461.N$N222.DC2DBH4.HA227.N461.N$N222.D3H2I4.HF
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461.N461.N$N461.N461.N$N461.N461.N$N461.N461.N$925N!

It's nice that the Shapeloop rule supports such a wide variety of loop replication geometries -- you can often tell from a very large-scale view which loop type has taken over a given habitat. Certainly that's true for this little loop; it packs a lot more living copies into a given space than the original loops could manage, so you can see the spreading plague of SquareLs instantly.

[I haven't had time to look back through the other threads -- has this little critter showed up elsewhere, and does it already have a name?]

alexv · Post by **alexv** » September 26th, 2014, 1:03 pm

It's happen I forgot turn off Golly and suddenly found pattern with 400K+ generations and two mutants
on a background window. I started competition between them and "SquareL" and they seem more
successive after 100K steps ... 200K steps ... SquareL still keeps two arenas. The real competition .

Code: Select all

x = 925, y = 1510, rule = shapeloop-a
925N$N461.N461.N$N461.N461.N$N461.N461.N$N461.N461.N$N461.N461.N$N
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PS. This time after ~300K wins the biggest loop. It is not very usual.

bprentice · Post by **bprentice** » September 26th, 2014, 2:16 pm

Here is one that does quite well:

Code: Select all

x = 925, y = 1510, rule = shapeloop-a
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461.N$N461.N461.N$N461.N461.N$N461.N461.N$925N!

Brian Prentice

bprentice · Post by **bprentice** » September 26th, 2014, 2:44 pm

This one published by Scorbie here:

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1440#p13399

also does well.

Code: Select all

x = 925, y = 1510, rule = shapeloop-a
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461.N461.N$925N!

Brian Prentice

Tezcatlipoca · Post by **Tezcatlipoca** » September 26th, 2014, 7:10 pm

Code: Select all

x = 7, y = 7, rule = shapeloop

A2DCD$C3HA$AH.H3A$AH2.2HD$A4HJA$BAC2AFD$G!

Here is my contribution! I call it the "dismal tide" because it is decidedly boring behaviorally and it moves kind of a like a tide.

ConwayLife.com

Self-Replicator Competition?

Self-Replicator Competition?

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Re: Self-Replicator Competition?

Re: Self-Replicator Competition?

Re: Self-Replicator Competition?

Re: Self-Replicator Competition?

Re: Self-Replicator Competition?

Re: Self-Replicator Competition?

Re: Self-Replicator Competition?

Re: Self-Replicator Competition?

Re: Self-Replicator Competition?

Re: Self-Replicator Competition?

Re: Self-Replicator Competition?

Re: Self-Replicator Competition?

Re: Self-Replicator Competition?

Re: Self-Replicator Competition?

Re: Self-Replicator Competition?

Re: Self-Replicator Competition?

Re: Self-Replicator Competition?

Re: Self-Replicator Competition?

Re: Self-Replicator Competition?

Re: Self-Replicator Competition?

Re: Self-Replicator Competition?

Re: Self-Replicator Competition?

Re: Self-Replicator Competition?