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Some of the organisms already have electron transport chains.Schiaparelliorbust wrote: March 19th, 2021, 10:34 amThen how would the equivalent of mitochondria form? Or at least something that can supply energy quickly.
Would that be enough? We have it on Earth too, but I don't think we could survive without mitochonsria.MathAndCode wrote: March 19th, 2021, 10:59 am Some of the organisms already have electron transport chains.
There just needs to be some membrane-bound organelle. It doesn't need to be from another species.Schiaparelliorbust wrote: March 19th, 2021, 11:06 amWould that be enough? We have it on Earth too, but I don't think we could survive without mitochonsria.
How do you think it might form then?MathAndCode wrote: March 19th, 2021, 12:01 pm There just needs to be some membrane-bound organelle. It doesn't need to be from another species.
Probably mutation.Schiaparelliorbust wrote: March 19th, 2021, 1:01 pmHow do you think it might form then?MathAndCode wrote: March 19th, 2021, 12:01 pm There just needs to be some membrane-bound organelle. It doesn't need to be from another species.
I'm not very concerned about that. After all, it formed in the prokaryotic ancestors of mitochondria. One possibility is that they evolved to use carbon compounds, such as methane, to reduce sulfate back to sulfite, took advantage of the energy released, then started reducing sulfate further in order to release more energy per sulfate anion.
But you can't really have a simple mutation that just creates a mitochondria analogue out of nowhere. Evolution doesn't happen just by mutation.
I know,but it could be a mutation of some older,now little useful part. Did all organisms ever had mitochondria (except maybe some very old) or not?If yes,we should also assume something was present here.Schiaparelliorbust wrote: March 19th, 2021, 1:18 pmBut you can't really have a simple mutation that just creates a mitochondria analogue out of nowhere. Evolution doesn't happen just by mutation.
No, prokaryotes don't have mitochondria.{censored} wrote: March 19th, 2021, 1:26 pmI know,but it could be a mutation of some older,now little useful part. Did all organisms ever had mitochondria (except maybe some very old) or not?
I think the only solution is smaller organisms then.MathAndCode wrote: March 19th, 2021, 2:00 pmNo, prokaryotes don't have mitochondria.{censored} wrote: March 19th, 2021, 1:26 pmI know,but it could be a mutation of some older,now little useful part. Did all organisms ever had mitochondria (except maybe some very old) or not?
Organelles dedicated to oxidative phosphorylation (or, in our case, oxidative sulfurylation) can provide the organism with enough energy whether or not they are derived from another organism.
Can you write the reaction they use to do that please?MathAndCode wrote: March 19th, 2021, 1:17 pm I'm not very concerned about that. After all, it formed in the prokaryotic ancestors of mitochondria. One possibility is that they evolved to use carbon compounds, such as methane, to reduce sulfate back to sulfite, took advantage of the energy released, then started reducing sulfate further in order to release more energy per sulfate anion.
which reaction?Schiaparelliorbust wrote: March 20th, 2021, 4:27 pmCan you write the reaction they use to do that please?
The one where they use carbon compounds to reduce sulfate to sulfite. You don't have to specify the exact carbon compound though.
SO₄²⁻+CO→SO₃²⁻+CO₂ for exampleSchiaparelliorbust wrote: March 20th, 2021, 4:52 pmThe one where they use carbon compounds to reduce sulfate to sulfite. You don't have to specify the exact carbon compound though.
I still don't get what you originally wrote though. Can you explain it a bit more?
Species can evolve electron transport chains themselves instead of having to engulf organisms from other species.Schiaparelliorbust wrote: March 21st, 2021, 3:03 pmI still don't get what you originally wrote though. Can you explain it a bit more?
So now what would happen? Also, Biblaridion uploaded Alien Biospheres episode 10 today.MathAndCode wrote: March 21st, 2021, 6:42 pm Species can evolve electron transport chains themselves instead of having to engulf organisms from other species.
Would dioxygen levels be high enough yet for those organisms to use dioxygen for oxidative sulfurylation?
What is that exactly? I could only find oxidative phosphorylation and sulfurylation/sulfation. Is it just the former but with sulfur instead of phosphorus? If yes, then my answer to your question is yes. Bacteria don't need a lot of oxygen on Earth to survive AFAIK.MathAndCode wrote: March 23rd, 2021, 2:58 pm Would dioxygen levels be high enough yet for those organisms to use dioxygen for oxidative sulfurylation?
Yes, it's just phosphorylation but with sulfate instead of phosphate. If it's high enough, the organisms will electron transport chains will likely preferentially reduce it over sulfate because doing so won't deplete their sulfate.Schiaparelliorbust wrote: March 24th, 2021, 10:09 amWhat is that exactly? I could only find oxidative phosphorylation and sulfurylation/sulfation. Is it just the former but with sulfur instead of phosphorus? If yes, then my answer to your question is yes.
Then you're saying they might evolve oxidative phosphorylation? Also, what else did they need sulfate for?MathAndCode wrote: March 24th, 2021, 10:16 am Yes, it's just phosphorylation but with sulfate instead of phosphate. If it's high enough, the organisms will electron transport chains will likely preferentially reduce it over sulfate because doing so won't deplete their sulfate.
Sulfate serves a role analogous to phosphate in Earth life.Schiaparelliorbust wrote: March 24th, 2021, 10:31 amThen you're saying they might evolve oxidative phosphorylation? Also, what else did they need sulfate for?
So now that there's enough oxygen for oxidative sulfurylation they will proliferate. They will live near the oceans' surface., and more in cooler areas because oxygen dissolves better in cold water.MathAndCode wrote: March 24th, 2021, 10:34 am Sulfate serves a role analogous to phosphate in Earth life.
We can do that as soon as we finish covering the increased biodiversity caused by hydrothermal vents near the surface.Schiaparelliorbust wrote: March 24th, 2021, 10:49 amI would like to get started with multicellular life soon if possible.