Forums for Conway's Game of Life
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That also depends on how long it has been since the oxidation began. It will take the organisms a while to even evolve to not be poisoned by it.Schiaparelliorbust wrote: March 17th, 2021, 12:23 pmOh, ok. Probably once the oxygen becomes at least a few percent. One thing I didn't think of is that these mobile microbes will probably live close to the surface to benefit from the oxygen.
Then they could be slowly pushed up by hydrothermal vents and get slowly used to it like that. Many of them will die, but the few that survive will take over. Also, would the photosynthesizers get poisoned by the oxygen, particularly the ones that produce it?MathAndCode wrote: March 17th, 2021, 12:33 pm That also depends on how long it has been since the oxidation began. It will take the organisms a while to even evolve to not be poisoned by it.
Yes, they would. That's the reason why they release it. They have evolved some resistance, though.Schiaparelliorbust wrote: March 17th, 2021, 12:50 pmAlso, would the photosynthesizers get poisoned by the oxygen, particularly the ones that produce it?
What might be the mechanism of their movement?MathAndCode wrote: March 17th, 2021, 12:58 pm Yes, they would. That's the reason why they release it. They have evolved some resistance, though.
They would probably use either cilia or a flagellum. I can't think of any other practical methods.
I think cilia are useful for moving slowly in any direction, and flagella are useful for moving fast in the direction opposite to the flagellum. The former could evolve into the latter I think. Scavengers and chemosynthesizers can use cilia, while predators can use flagella.MathAndCode wrote: March 17th, 2021, 1:17 pm They would probably use either cilia or a flagellum. I can't think of any other practical methods.
Yes, those seem fitting.Schiaparelliorbust wrote: March 17th, 2021, 1:40 pmI think cilia are useful for moving slowly in any direction, and flagella are useful for moving fast in the direction opposite to the flagellum. The former could evolve into the latter I think. Scavengers and chemosynthesizers can use cilia, while predators can use flagella.
Since they can move now, I think they might conquer the surroundings of the hydrothermal vents.
Some organisms have already moved upcurrent and downcurrent of them.Schiaparelliorbust wrote: March 17th, 2021, 1:51 pmSince they can move now, I think they might conquer the surroundings of the hydrothermal vents.
Were they the ancestors of photosynthesizers?MathAndCode wrote: March 17th, 2021, 2:08 pm Some organisms have already moved upcurrent and downcurrent of them.
Yes, the organisms that moved downcurrent were the ancestors of the photosynthesizers.
Is there anything else you think these organisms could benefit from having then?MathAndCode wrote: March 17th, 2021, 2:41 pm Yes, the organisms that moved downcurrent were the ancestors of the photosynthesizers.
Since they use proteins, they'll have to figure out how to get nitrogen. Once ammonia has been depleted, they won't be able to take it up in a reduced form. However, I think that the uplifting of the hydrothermal vents could conceivably occur before ammonia would start being depleted. Do you agree?Schiaparelliorbust wrote: March 18th, 2021, 12:20 pmIs there anything else you think these organisms could benefit from having then?
Yes, I do. What are you getting at?MathAndCode wrote: March 18th, 2021, 12:24 pm Since they use proteins, they'll have to figure out how to get nitrogen. Once ammonia has been depleted, they won't be able to take it up in a reduced form. However, I think that the uplifting of the hydrothermal vents could conceivably occur before ammonia would start being depleted. Do you agree?
We should figure out how long after the uplifting that will happen.
What are the reactions that use ammonia? I should really get around to making the part dedicated to this thread on my user page. It will make stuff easier. I'll try and make it this weekend, but please remind me. I'm a terrible procrastinator.MathAndCode wrote: March 18th, 2021, 12:39 pm We should figure out how long after the uplifting that will happen.
The only reaction posted that i found is HCN+NH₃→N₂+CH₄, but they might also use it to make amino acids.Schiaparelliorbust wrote: March 18th, 2021, 12:50 pmWhat are the reactions that use ammonia? I should really get around to making the part dedicated to this thread on my user page. It will make stuff easier. I'll try and make it this weekend, but please remind me. I'm a terrible procrastinator.
Do you think most organisms would use this reaction? It seems relatively easy to come up with.MathAndCode wrote: March 18th, 2021, 1:41 pm The only reaction posted that i found is HCN+NH₃→N₂+CH₄, but they might also use it to make amino acids.
While some organisms use it, I expect the organisms that use oxidative sulfurylation to become dominant.Schiaparelliorbust wrote: March 19th, 2021, 7:55 amDo you think most organisms would use this reaction? It seems relatively easy to come up with.
I don't think that we should worry about those aspects of the structure too much.Schiaparelliorbust wrote: March 19th, 2021, 7:55 amKind of off topic: Do you think that we should have the equivalent of eukaryotes? By that I mean they have nuclei and mitochondria analogues.
Then I think it would either take very long for ammonia to deplete or maybe even never at this rate because it would be replenished faster.MathAndCode wrote: March 19th, 2021, 8:57 am While some organisms use it, I expect the organisms that use oxidative sulfurylation to become dominant.
I watched this video today and I particularly like the bleb theory. What do you think?MathAndCode wrote: March 19th, 2021, 8:57 am I don't think that we should worry about those aspects of the structure too much.
How would it be replenished?Schiaparelliorbust wrote: March 19th, 2021, 9:06 amThen I think it would either take very long for ammonia to deplete or maybe even never at this rate because it would be replenished faster.
Frankly, if scientists don't understand this process, then maybe we should skip it.Schiaparelliorbust wrote: March 19th, 2021, 9:06 amI watched this video today and I particularly like the bleb theory. What do you think?
Just post the ideas that you have, and we'll adopt the ones that we like.{censored} wrote: March 19th, 2021, 9:16 am This thread seems fun. Schiaparelliorbust recommended it to me. How can I help?I would like to contribute but have few ideas.
It seems unlikely because that doesn't seem to have happened on Earth.{censored} wrote: March 19th, 2021, 9:22 am What about two independently originating life types? That would be interesting. I am not sure, however.
MathAndCode wrote: January 8th, 2021, 5:52 pm There will also be a reversible reaction where water and isocyanic acid interchange with ammonia and carbon dioxide.
Then how would the equivalent of mitochondria form? Or at least something that can supply energy quickly.MathAndCode wrote: March 19th, 2021, 9:18 am Frankly, if scientists don't understand this process, then maybe we should skip it.