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Re: Symbiosis

Posted: September 17th, 2020, 1:57 pm
by silversmith
A drifter to glider(repeat time 117):

Code: Select all

x = 80, y = 92, rule = Symbiosis
6$58.B$57.B$57.3B28$28.B.B$28.2B$29.B7$20.BA$23.2B.B$22.A.B.BA2$22.BA
$25.2B.B$24.A.B.BA2$24.BA$27.2B.B$26.A.B.BA2$26.BA$29.2B.B$28.A.B.BA2$
28.BA$31.2B.B$30.A.B.BA$27.B.A5.B$27.A2.B2.2B$23.B.A3.2B3.A$23.A2.B$19.
B.A3.2B2.2B$19.A2.B6.A$15.B.A3.2B2.2B$15.A2.B6.A$13.AB2.2B2.2B$14.B6.
A$17.2B$17.A$14.2BA$14.2BAB$10.A$10.B!
Edit:repeat time 26

Code: Select all

x = 30, y = 53, rule = Symbiosis
29.B$27.2B$28.2B5$21.B.B$21.2B$22.B7$13.BA$16.2B.B$15.A.B.BA2$15.BA$18.
2B.B$17.A.B.BA2$17.BA$20.2B.B$19.A.B.BA2$19.BA$22.2B.B$21.A.B.BA2$21.
BA$24.2B.B$23.A.B.BA$20.B.A5.B$20.A2.B2.2B$16.B.A3.2B3.A$16.A2.B$12.B
.A3.2B2.2B$12.A2.B6.A$8.B.A3.2B2.2B$2.B3.B.A2.B6.A$3.A2.AB2.2B2.2B$7.
B6.A$10.2B$10.A$B8.BA$A4$.BA!
I enjoy this rule's super simple catalysts.

Re: Symbiosis

Posted: September 17th, 2020, 3:29 pm
by EvinZL
Stuff

Copperhead-to-H

Code: Select all

x = 48, y = 20, rule = Symbiosis
44.2B$43.B2.BA$43.2B$31.B7.2B5.AB$31.A6.4B$26.B$26.A10.6B$38.4B2$B36.
2B2.2B$3B32.2B.B2.B.2B$2.B15.2B18.B2.B$2.B15.2B2$39.2B$39.2B3$21.2B$
21.A!
Tandem gliders

Code: Select all

x = 20, y = 11, rule = Symbiosis
4.B$4.A4$18.AB2$B$B.B$3B$2.B!
RT 58 syringe

Code: Select all

x = 47, y = 17, rule = Symbiosis
44.B$31.2B3.2B6.B.B$31.2B3.2B6.2B$33.A3$B$3B$2.B15.2B$2.B15.2B23.A$
44.B2$36.2B$29.A6.2B$29.B7.A$21.2B$22.A!
Also, the mildly amusing "Fx77rynge"

Code: Select all

x = 32, y = 17, rule = Symbiosis
5.A$5.2B$5.2B11.2B11.B$18.2B9.3B$.BA26.B$.A27.B3$.B$.2B$B.B2$7.A$7.B
2$20.A$21.B!
Oscs are fun

Code: Select all

x = 63, y = 16, rule = Symbiosis
46.2B.2B$12.A5.A26.A2B2.BA$2.B9.2B3.2B13.A5.A7.B$.B8.AB.B3.B.BA11.3B.
3B8.B$AB9.9B10.AB2.B.B2.BA$.B10.7B12.2B5.2B$3.2B8.5B12.B2.B3.B2.B$3.B
.A6.2B3.2B13.2B3.2B$.A2.A7.2B3.2B12.2B.B.B.2B18.3B$.B11.B3.B15.5B10.
3B6.B.B.B$12.AB.B.BA13.AB3.BA8.3B.B4.AB.B.BA$14.3B17.3B9.AB3.BA4.B.B$
15.A19.A11.2B8.B.2B$58.B$50.A9.A$50.B9.B!

Re: Symbiosis

Posted: September 20th, 2020, 3:05 am
by ColorfulGalaxy
Fake gliders:

Code: Select all

x = 0, y = 0, rule = Symbiosis
2AB$A$.B3$2BA$B$.A3$.AB$2B$2.A3$.BA$2A$2.B!
They don't run at all
Let's start discussing glider collisions.
The "glider" as in "glider collision" includes the fake gliders mentioned above.

Re: Symbiosis

Posted: September 20th, 2020, 10:15 pm
by Hdjensofjfnen
Billiard table with a period of 171 which I thought was interesting:

Code: Select all

x = 12, y = 11, rule = Symbiosis
4.BA$4.3B$2.BA3.B.A$.B2.B.B.B.A$AB.2B3.2B$.B6.B.A$.B2A5.2B$3.B.2B2.B.
A$4.2A3.B$5.BA.B.A$7.A.A!
A000975 (any other numbers of rows will result in an oscillator):

Code: Select all

x = 42, y = 66, rule = Symbiosis
36.AB2.BA3$36.AB2.BA3$36.AB2.BA3$36.AB2.BA3$36.AB2.BA3$36.AB2.BA3$36.
AB2.BA3$36.AB2.BA3$36.AB2.BA3$36.AB2.BA3$36.AB2.BA3$27.AB2.BA3.AB2.BA
3$27.AB2.BA3.AB2.BA3$27.AB2.BA3.AB2.BA3$27.AB2.BA3.AB2.BA3$27.AB2.BA
3.AB2.BA3$18.AB2.BA3.AB2.BA3.AB2.BA3$18.AB2.BA3.AB2.BA3.AB2.BA3$18.AB
2.BA3.AB2.BA3.AB2.BA3$9.AB2.BA3.AB2.BA3.AB2.BA3.AB2.BA3$AB2.BA3.AB2.B
A3.AB2.BA3.AB2.BA3.AB2.BA3$.2B7.2B7.2B7.2B7.2B$2.2B7.2B7.2B7.2B7.2B$.
B8.B8.B8.B8.B!

Re: Symbiosis

Posted: September 21st, 2020, 8:51 am
by silversmith
Looks like a potential gun:

Code: Select all

#C [[ STOP 123 ]]
x = 81, y = 16, rule = Symbiosis
17.B2.B2.B2.B2.B2.B2.B2.B5.B2.B2.B2.B2.B2.B2.B2.B2.B$17.A2.A2.A2.A2.A
2.A2.A2.A5.A2.A2.A2.A2.A2.A2.A2.A2.2A$71.BA2$67.4B$AB65.B3.BA$67.B$68.
B$71.BA$17.A2.A2.A2.A2.A2.A2.A2.A2.A2.A2.A2.A2.A2.A2.A2.A2.A2.2A$17.B
2.B2.B2.B2.B2.B2.B2.B2.B2.B2.B2.B2.B2.B2.B2.B2.B2.B5$80.A!

Re: Symbiosis

Posted: September 21st, 2020, 12:46 pm
by EvinZL
How about some Tech/conduitry in Symbiosis?

Here's a history rule

Code: Select all

@RULE SymbiosisHistory
1: Life A
2. Life B
3: History
4: Marked Life A
5: Marked Life B
6: Marked Dead


@TABLE
neighborhood: Moore
symmetries: permute
n_states: 7

var any.0 = {0,1,2,3,4,5,6}
var any.1 = any.0
var any.2 = any.0
var any.3 = any.0
var any.4 = any.0
var any.5 = any.0
var any.6 = any.0
var any.7 = any.0
var _a0.0 = {0,6}
var _b0.0 = {1,4}
var _b0.1 = _b0.0
var _b0.2 = _b0.0
var _c0.0 = {2,5}
var _c0.1 = _c0.0
var _c0.2 = _c0.0
var _d0.0 = {0,3,6}
var _d0.1 = _d0.0
var _d0.2 = _d0.0
var _d0.3 = _d0.0
var _d0.4 = _d0.0
var _e0.0 = {1,2}
var _f0.0 = {4,5}

_a0.0, _b0.0, _c0.0, any.0, any.1, any.2, any.3, any.4, any.5, _a0.0
0, _b0.0, _b0.1, _b0.2, _d0.0, _d0.1, _d0.2, _d0.3, _d0.4, 1
3, _b0.0, _b0.1, _b0.2, _d0.0, _d0.1, _d0.2, _d0.3, _d0.4, 1
6, _b0.0, _b0.1, _b0.2, _d0.0, _d0.1, _d0.2, _d0.3, _d0.4, 4
0, _c0.0, _c0.1, _c0.2, _d0.0, _d0.1, _d0.2, _d0.3, _d0.4, 2
3, _c0.0, _c0.1, _c0.2, _d0.0, _d0.1, _d0.2, _d0.3, _d0.4, 2
6, _c0.0, _c0.1, _c0.2, _d0.0, _d0.1, _d0.2, _d0.3, _d0.4, 5
_b0.0, _c0.0, any.0, any.1, any.2, any.3, any.4, any.5, any.6, _b0.0
_c0.0, _b0.0, any.0, any.1, any.2, any.3, any.4, any.5, any.6, _c0.0
_b0.0, _b0.1, _b0.2, any.0, _d0.0, _d0.1, _d0.2, _d0.3, _d0.4, _b0.0
_c0.0, _c0.1, _c0.2, any.0, _d0.0, _d0.1, _d0.2, _d0.3, _d0.4, _c0.0
_e0.0, any.0, any.1, any.2, any.3, any.4, any.5, any.6, any.7, 3
_f0.0, any.0, any.1, any.2, any.3, any.4, any.5, any.6, any.7, 6

@COLORS
0 48 48 48
1 255 0 0
2 255 255 0
3 0 0 136
4 255 136 136
5 255 255 136
6 96 96 96

@ICONS
XPM
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".........CEEEEEEEEEEEC........."
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XPM

"15 90 5 1"

". c #000000"
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"E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E"
".E.E.E.E.E.E.E."
"E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E"
".E.E.E.E.E.E.E."
"E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E"
".E.E.E.E.E.E.E."
"E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E"
".E.E.E.E.E.E.E."
"E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E"

XPM

"7 42 6 1"

". c #000000"
"B c #404040"
"C c #808080"
"D c #C0C0C0"
"E c #FFFFFF"
"F c #E0E0E0"

".BFEFB."
"BEEEEEB"
"FEEEEEF"
"EEEEEEE"
"FEEEEEF"
"BEEEEEB"
".BFEFB."

".BFEFB."
"BEEEEEB"
"FEEEEEF"
"EEEEEEE"
"FEEEEEF"
"BEEEEEB"
".BFEFB."

".E.E.E."
"E.E.E.E"
".E.E.E."
"E.E.E.E"
".E.E.E."
"E.E.E.E"
".E.E.E."

".BFEFB."
"BEEEEEB"
"FEEEEEF"
"EEEEEEE"
"FEEEEEF"
"BEEEEEB"
".BFEFB."

".BFEFB."
"BEEEEEB"
"FEEEEEF"
"EEEEEEE"
"FEEEEEF"
"BEEEEEB"
".BFEFB."

"E.E.E.E"
".E.E.E."
"E.E.E.E"
".E.E.E."
"E.E.E.E"
".E.E.E."
"E.E.E.E"
Symbiosis can already optimize lots of tech; in addition to the reflectors posted earlier, the Fx77rynge's repeat time is only 43! (Which happens to be the same as the snark)

Code: Select all

x = 47, y = 26, rule = SymbiosisHistory
19.A12.C.3C.C$19.2B10.13C$18.C2B2C.C5.2C2B11CF$18.9C3.2C2B9C3FC$15.BA
.11C.13CFCF$15.A2.25CF$17.18C.2C2.2C$16.19C$15.19C$14.20C$13.4C.7C.7C
$12.4C9.9C$11.2E2C5.A4.10C$10.2C2E6.B5.8C$9.2CEC15.6C$8.4C16.5C$7.4C
18.4C$6.4C19.3C$5.4C21.3C$4.4C24.2BA$3.4C25.A$2.4C$.4C$3EC$2CE$.E!

Code: Select all

x = 46, y = 26, rule = Symbiosis
19.A$19.2B$19.2B11.2B11.B$32.2B9.3B$15.BA26.B$15.A27.B7$11.2B7.A$12.
2B6.B$11.B5$32.2BA$32.A3$3B$2.B$.B!

Re: Symbiosis

Posted: September 21st, 2020, 2:12 pm
by wwei23
EvinZL wrote: September 21st, 2020, 12:46 pm How about some Tech/conduitry in Symbiosis?
Nice work. This will make a great addition to the signal wires.
EDIT: P34:

Code: Select all

x = 9, y = 5, rule = Symbiosis
2B5.2B$A.B3.B.A$.A.B.B.A$2.A.B.A$3.A.A!
Edit 2: Made AbhpzTa's reflector into a flip-flop by mistake LOL

Code: Select all

x = 15, y = 16, rule = Symbiosis
11.B$8.B3.A.B$8.2A3.A$8.2A$4.BA4$5.2A$6.2A$5.A3$2A$.2A$A!
Edit 3: P263

Code: Select all

x = 10, y = 6, rule = Symbiosis
9.B$4.B3.A$4.2A2.2A$4.2A$BA6.2A$9.B!
Edit 4: Signal injector from that reflector.

Code: Select all

x = 28, y = 42, rule = Symbiosis
15.BA.A.B$16.A.2A$21.BA2$17.BA.A.B$18.A.2A$23.BA2$19.BA.A.B$20.A.2A$
25.BA2$21.BA.A.B$22.A.2A3$26.AB$18.B3.A$18.2A2.3A$18.2A4.B$14.BA4$15.
2A$16.2A$15.A3$10.2A$11.2A$10.A3$5.2A$6.2A$5.A3$2A$.2A$A!
Subtle phase-shift from P11 to P12.

Code: Select all

x = 22, y = 10, rule = Symbiosis
16.2A$2.2A10.BA3.B$BA3.B8.BA2.A$.A2.A15.BA$6.BA$17.2AB$3.2AB8.A.2A$A.
2A10.3A$3A13.B$2.B!
Edit 5: This can be used to make some powerful sparks at P43 (Since I want to try and make a P43 gun LOL).

Code: Select all

x = 32, y = 60, rule = Symbiosis
6.A$5.B.A$6.B.A3.B$7.B.A.A.B$8.BA.2A$14.BA2$10.BA.A.B$11.A.2A$16.BA2$
12.BA.A.B$13.A.2A$18.BA2$14.BA.A.B$15.A.2A$20.BA2$16.BA.A.B$17.A.2A$
22.BA2$18.BA.A.B$19.A.2A3$23.AB$15.B3.A$15.2A2.3A$15.2A4.B$11.BA4$12.
2A$13.2A$12.A2$28.B$22.A.A3.A$23.2A$23.A$.2A26.2AB$B2A26.2A$8.A$7.2A$
3.A3.A.A$3.B2$19.A$17.2A$18.2A4$19.AB$15.2A$15.2A$16.B!
Edit 6: Oh wait

Code: Select all

x = 32, y = 51, rule = Symbiosis
14.BA$10.A$10.B9.A$19.B3$19.BA$18.2A$20.BA$15.A$15.2BA.A.B$17.A.2A$
22.BA2$18.BA.A.B$19.A.2A$21.2A$22.A$22.2AB$15.B3.A.2A$15.2A2.3A$14.A
6.B$11.BA2.A3$17.A$18.2A$17.2A3$28.B$7.A20.A$7.2A$6.A.A20.A$.A26.A.AB
$BA.A26.A$2.A20.A.A$23.2A$3.A20.A$3.B3$13.2A$12.2A$14.A3$16.A2.AB$17.
A$15.2A$16.B!
Edit 7: P19 can reflect gliders at P19

Code: Select all

x = 58, y = 58, rule = Symbiosis
27.A$24.B3.A$23.B.A$22.B.A3.A$21.B.A$22.B.A3.A$23.B.A$24.B3.A$27.A$
29.2A$29.A.A$29.A$25.A$23.2A$24.2A8.2A$33.2A$35.A$19.A$19.A.A$19.2A
17.3A$38.A$39.A13.B$14.A.A35.B.B$14.2A28.A6.B.A.B$15.A27.2A5.B.A.A.B$
43.A.A5.A3.A$10.A$9.A39.A7.A$9.3A38.A.A.A.A$.A.A.A.A38.3A$A7.A39.A$
47.A$2.A3.A5.A.A$.B.A.A.B5.2A27.A$2.B.A.B6.A28.2A$3.B.B35.A.A$4.B13.A
$19.A$17.3A17.2A$36.A.A$38.A$22.A$23.2A$22.2A8.2A$33.2A$32.A$28.A$26.
A.A$27.2A$30.A$29.A3.B$32.A.B$29.A3.A.B$34.A.B$29.A3.A.B$32.A.B$29.A
3.B$30.A!

Re: Symbiosis

Posted: September 22nd, 2020, 1:06 am
by ColorfulGalaxy
100% dense agar

Code: Select all

x = 0, y = 0, rule = Symbiosis:T8,8
ABABABAB$BABABABA$ABABABAB$BABABABA$ABABABAB$BABABABA$
ABABABAB$BABABABA!

Re: Symbiosis

Posted: September 22nd, 2020, 1:34 am
by Yoel
Yesterday I looked for the first time into your rule and realized that I was recently playing independently with a very large rule space of similar rules. Not yours though and with a different style of computer generated rule tables. My main interest are 4-state tamed rules with speed of light spaceships based on Seeds and augmented with still lifes.

In my cyclical notation, your rule would be denoted as D3a-01a2n3n4z4n5z5n6z6n7z7n8z8n (I made all such 3-state rules red and blue because it resembles standard electric wire coloring in some countries):

Code: Select all

@RULE Symbiosis

# D3a-01a2n3n4z4n5z5n6z6n7z7n8z8n

@COLORS

0 0 0 0
1 255 0 0
2 0 0 255

@TABLE

n_states:3
neighborhood:Moore
symmetries:permute
var A={0,1,2}
var B=A
var C=A
var D=A
var E=A
var F=A
var G=A
var H=A
var I=A

var a={1,2}
var b=a
var b=a
var c=a
var d=a
var e=a
var f=a
var g=a
var h=a
var i=a

0,i,i,i,0,0,0,0,0,i
1,2,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1
2,1,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,2
i,a,b,0,0,0,0,0,0,i
i,a,b,c,0,0,0,0,0,i
i,i,i,i,i,0,0,0,0,0
i,a,b,c,d,0,0,0,0,i
i,i,i,i,i,i,0,0,0,0
i,a,b,c,d,e,0,0,0,i
i,i,i,i,i,i,i,0,0,0
i,a,b,c,d,e,f,0,0,i
i,i,i,i,i,i,i,i,0,0
i,a,b,c,d,e,f,g,0,i
i,i,i,i,i,i,i,i,i,0
i,a,b,c,d,e,f,g,h,i

I,A,B,C,D,E,F,G,H,0
The head and the final line of this table is my standard wrapper for such rules. I used rules similar to yours for testing my rule table generator written in Common Lisp.

I am very glad that someone else had realized the great potential of such state-symmetrical rules! You undoubtedly created this rule, but I invented the generalization of such cyclical rules (looking from a different perspective though) and the corresponding notation system (not exactly perfect yet)! :)

Now, among the rules I've recently looked into, the closest to yours in the rule structure and general behavior seems to be D14a3a-2n3n4zr4n5zr5n6zr6n7zr7n8zr8n (stored as 2Life18 on my computer):

Code: Select all

@RULE 2Life18

# D14a3a-2n3n4zr4n5zr5n6zr6n7zr7n8zr8n

@COLORS

0 0 0 0
1 255 0 0
2 0 0 255

@TABLE

n_states:3
neighborhood:Moore
symmetries:permute
var A={0,1,2}
var B=A
var C=A
var D=A
var E=A
var F=A
var G=A
var H=A
var I=A

var a={1,2}
var b=a
var b=a
var c=a
var d=a
var e=a
var f=a
var g=a
var h=a
var i=a

0,1,2,2,2,2,0,0,0,1
0,2,1,1,1,1,0,0,0,2
0,i,i,i,0,0,0,0,0,i
i,a,b,0,0,0,0,0,0,i
i,a,b,c,0,0,0,0,0,i
i,1,1,1,1,0,0,0,0,0
i,2,2,2,2,0,0,0,0,0
i,a,b,c,d,0,0,0,0,i
i,1,1,1,1,1,0,0,0,0
i,2,2,2,2,2,0,0,0,0
i,a,b,c,d,e,0,0,0,i
i,1,1,1,1,1,1,0,0,0
i,2,2,2,2,2,2,0,0,0
i,a,b,c,d,e,f,0,0,i
i,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,0,0
i,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,0,0
i,a,b,c,d,e,f,g,0,i
i,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,0
i,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,0
i,a,b,c,d,e,f,g,h,i

I,A,B,C,D,E,F,G,H,0
I wanted to add an extra "symbiotic" birth rule and didn't think that surviving something like solid 2-color lines and 100% dense agars would not lead to a complete freeze.

For somewhat similar 4-state rules (3-color, as I call) with "Go boards", look at SeaLife and Triple_Swamps.

I also thought of symbiosis, because some similar rules grow very much like lichens. For example:

Code: Select all

@RULE 2Life22

# D12b3a-2n3n4zr4n5zr5n

@COLORS

0 0 0 0
1 255 0 0
2 0 0 255

@TABLE

n_states:3
neighborhood:Moore
symmetries:permute
var A={0,1,2}
var B=A
var C=A
var D=A
var E=A
var F=A
var G=A
var H=A
var I=A

var a={1,2}
var b=a
var b=a
var c=a
var d=a
var e=a
var f=a
var g=a
var h=a
var i=a

0,1,2,2,0,0,0,0,0,2
0,2,1,1,0,0,0,0,0,1
0,i,i,i,0,0,0,0,0,i
i,a,b,0,0,0,0,0,0,i
i,a,b,c,0,0,0,0,0,i
i,1,1,1,1,0,0,0,0,0
i,2,2,2,2,0,0,0,0,0
i,a,b,c,d,0,0,0,0,i
i,1,1,1,1,1,0,0,0,0
i,2,2,2,2,2,0,0,0,0
i,a,b,c,d,e,0,0,0,i

I,A,B,C,D,E,F,G,H,0

Code: Select all

x = 19, y = 19, rule = 2Life22
$12.B$11.B$11.3B8$5.A$5.2A$4.A.A!
Some "symbiotic" rules also exhibit a "galaxy" behavior by producing stable cores or glider emitters or mutating extra-large period guns that turn almost any 2-color pattern into a methuselah or an oscillator with an astronomical period, while some others explode in very different ways, or are stable, but have crazy long average lives. I guess I should categorize them at some time. I didn't really expect much from such rules, besides radical changes in Life's general behavior. I'll gonna look, if some of your cool oscillators work in other related rules.

Many thanks for great discoveries!

BTW, does anyone know other interesting "symbiotic" rules? I honestly didn't know that at least this rule has been already explored. :o

Re: Symbiosis

Posted: September 22nd, 2020, 6:06 am
by lemon41625
Yoel wrote: September 22nd, 2020, 1:34 am I am very glad that someone else had realized the great potential of such state-symmetrical rules! You undoubtedly created this rule, but I invented the generalization of such cyclical rules (looking from a different perspective though) and the corresponding notation system (not exactly perfect yet)! :)
I have a proposal for a different notation that is (at least in my opinion) more intuitive because it matches previously created notations for a superset of this rulespace (specifically bubblegum's BMS*2 notation for the 3-state outer totalistic rulespace). I also found the abbreviations sort of confusing.

Basically, the rulestring consists of 4 parts - B, M, S and C.

Explanation of B/M/S notation (adapted from bubblegum's explanation in the Bipolar thread):
C represents the number of states (including ground 0).

Each transition is a group of numbers that is the same length as the number of states (excluding ground 0). These represent the count of state-1 cells, then state-2, then state-3... Of course, these transitions are cyclical.

The B/M/S describes birth, mutation (alive -> other alive) and survival conditions for every state.
l is a special character meaning "all", so for exemple Bl2 = B02122232425262, Ml-31 = M01112141516171 and S2l-4-534 = S202122232634 (note that the extra minus signs are necessary to prevent ambiguity).

For a 3 state rule, there is 1 mutation set.
For a 4-state rule, there are 2 mutation sets and so on.

1st set of mutation transitions (represent transition to state 2)
2nd set of mutation transitions (represent transition to state 3)
and so on...

All transitions are expressed from the perspective of state 1 but are applied cyclically to the other states.

Cyclical rules in B/M/S*2 can be converted to this notation by simply deleting the second set of BMS transitions.

For example,
B30/M/S2030ll-0/C3 is Symbosis
B2130/M/S2030/C3 is Deadly Enemies
B002/M/S000011l-0l-0l-0/C4 is Gluons
B02/M/S100213/C3 is PositronicBrain

I'll get this and Symbosis rules implemented in CAViewer fairly soon.

Re: Symbiosis

Posted: September 22nd, 2020, 7:32 am
by Yoel
lemon41625 wrote: September 22nd, 2020, 6:06 am
Yoel wrote: September 22nd, 2020, 1:34 am I am very glad that someone else had realized the great potential of such state-symmetrical rules! You undoubtedly created this rule, but I invented the generalization of such cyclical rules (looking from a different perspective though) and the corresponding notation system (not exactly perfect yet)! :)
I have a proposal for a different notation that is (at least in my opinion) more intuitive because it matches previously created notations for a superset of this rulespace (specifically bubblegum's BMS*2 notation for the 3-state outer totalistic rulespace). I also found the abbreviations sort of confusing.
If I understood it right, your notation is neither a subset nor a superset of mine, because it does not cover all cyclical rules. For example, how would you denote a rule with 3 live states (let's call them R, G and B), where only 4R1B->G, 4G1R->B. 4B1G->R, but only in this order (4R1G, 4B1R etc. don't give birth)? My notation includes all such possible rules for birth, mutation and survival. I described it here:

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=4611

Because there are extremely many possible varieties of just the above subrule (4R1B->R, 4B1R->G, 4B1G->G etc. and all combinations of those), the notation of such rules can be quite long (extremely long for >4 states) and somewhat confusing. At the same time, my notation does not include anything like the Generations. There is no such thing as "history" of states in this rule space.

Re: Symbiosis

Posted: September 22nd, 2020, 7:46 am
by lemon41625
Yoel wrote: September 22nd, 2020, 7:32 am
lemon41625 wrote: September 22nd, 2020, 6:06 am
Yoel wrote: September 22nd, 2020, 1:34 am I am very glad that someone else had realized the great potential of such state-symmetrical rules! You undoubtedly created this rule, but I invented the generalization of such cyclical rules (looking from a different perspective though) and the corresponding notation system (not exactly perfect yet)! :)
I have a proposal for a different notation that is (at least in my opinion) more intuitive because it matches previously created notations for a superset of this rulespace (specifically bubblegum's BMS*2 notation for the 3-state outer totalistic rulespace). I also found the abbreviations sort of confusing.
If I understood it right, your notation is neither a subset of superset of mine, because it does not cover all cyclical rules. For example, how would you denote a rule with 3 live states (let's call them R, G and B), where only 4R1B->G, 4G1R->B. 4B1G->R, but only in this order (4R1G, 4B1R etc. don't give birth)?
That rule should be able to be expressed as B014/M/S/C4 assuming R as state 1, G as state 2 and B as state 3.
014 means for a red cell to be born, it needs 0 red, 1 green and 4 blue.

Expanding this to blue and green cells,
For a green cell to be born, it needs 4 red cells and 1 blue cell.
For a blue cell to be born, it needs 1 red cell and 4 green cells.

Essentially it should look like this:
R G B Cell to be born
0 1 4 R
4 0 1 G
1 4 0 B

Re: Symbiosis

Posted: September 22nd, 2020, 2:35 pm
by Yoel
lemon41625 wrote: September 22nd, 2020, 7:46 am That rule should be able to be expressed as B014/M/S/C4 assuming R as state 1, G as state 2 and B as state 3.
014 means for a red cell to be born, it needs 0 red, 1 green and 4 blue.

Expanding this to blue and green cells,
For a green cell to be born, it needs 4 red cells and 1 blue cell.
For a blue cell to be born, it needs 1 red cell and 4 green cells.

Essentially it should look like this:
R G B Cell to be born
0 1 4 R
4 0 1 G
1 4 0 B
OK. What ruleline would be for Gluonic in your notation? Another example: T11c12a21b-011a012a, which produces the following rule table:

Code: Select all

@RULE T11c12a21b-011a012a

# T11c12a21b-011a012a

@COLORS

0 0 0 0
1 255 0 0
2 0 255 0
3 0 0 255

@TABLE

n_states:4
neighborhood:Moore
symmetries:permute
var A={0,1,2,3}
var B=A
var C=A
var D=A
var E=A
var F=A
var G=A
var H=A
var I=A

var a={1,2,3}
var b=a
var b=a
var c=a
var d=a
var e=a
var f=a
var g=a
var h=a
var i=a

0,3,1,0,0,0,0,0,0,2
0,1,2,0,0,0,0,0,0,3
0,2,3,0,0,0,0,0,0,1
0,3,1,1,0,0,0,0,0,3
0,1,2,2,0,0,0,0,0,1
0,2,3,3,0,0,0,0,0,2
0,3,3,1,0,0,0,0,0,1
0,1,1,2,0,0,0,0,0,2
0,2,2,3,0,0,0,0,0,3
3,1,2,0,0,0,0,0,0,3
1,2,3,0,0,0,0,0,0,1
2,3,1,0,0,0,0,0,0,2
3,1,2,2,0,0,0,0,0,3
1,2,3,3,0,0,0,0,0,1
2,3,1,1,0,0,0,0,0,2

I,A,B,C,D,E,F,G,H,0
It has many interesting natural spaceships:

Code: Select all

x = 105, y = 109, rule = T11c12a21b-011a012a
16$64.B$66.B$62.A3.C$62.B3.B16$62.CA.A$65.B$62.C3.2C.A$69.C$63.C5.A$
65.C.A19$66.2C2$53.B12.2C$67.2A$66.BC4.B.B$53.A12.B6.C2.A$65.A3.ABAC.
C.C$45.A.A20.B5.C.C$45.A.A21.B3.B2.A$67.B.B.BC.B$67.CA20$21.B.B21.B$
19.A2.CA21.C.A$6.C12.CA20.CA2C2.BC$7.C13.C24.A.C13.C9.A$15.B5.C15.B
23.B8.A3.A$14.C8.C11.A2.C.C3B15.A2.C2.C4.AC2.B$15.CABC2B14.C.C21.C.C
2.C10.A$20.BC13.C.C2.AB17.C.C2.B7.B2.B$13.2B20.A2.B.A.C16.A2.2BA.B4.B
3.A$13.B.CB20.B.C.C19.B2.B4.A$62.2B!
BTW, mutations/survivals are not separated in my notation. Survivals are a subset of mutations, kind of like still lifes are P1 oscillators.

Re: Symbiosis

Posted: September 22nd, 2020, 9:56 pm
by lemon41625
Yoel wrote: September 22nd, 2020, 2:35 pm [quote=lemon41625 post_id=104656 time=1600775172 user_i

OK. What ruleline would be for Gluonic in your notation? Another example: T11c12a21b-011a012a
T11c12a21b-011a012a is B011120102/M/M/S011011012/C4
Gluonic is B002021/M/M/S000300030003120012201210021102111/C4

Re: Symbiosis

Posted: September 22nd, 2020, 10:04 pm
by wwei23
Are there any other drifter wires possible in Symbiosis?

Re: Symbiosis

Posted: September 23rd, 2020, 12:42 am
by Yoel
lemon41625 wrote: September 22nd, 2020, 9:56 pm
Yoel wrote: September 22nd, 2020, 2:35 pm [quote=lemon41625 post_id=104656 time=1600775172 user_i

OK. What ruleline would be for Gluonic in your notation? Another example: T11c12a21b-011a012a
T11c12a21b-011a012a is B011120102/M/M/S011011012/C4
Gluonic is B002021/M/M/S000300030003120012201210021102111/C4
Ok, I see that your notation is a superset of mine. However, writing such rule lines by hand is prone to errors. When you have something like T12c21a3b112b132c233a-003a03b012c102a031b13a22b015a501c (the longest lines for 3 colors are about 800 characters in my notation), it gets increasingly difficult not to make a mistake. My notation focuses specifically on rules that always act identically by a cyclical shift of live states and the generator rejects some inconsistent like T222a (222 can not give birth to a cell, because it would imply the contradiction 222->r, 222->g, 222->b).

I agree that your notation is more intuitive for many rule spaces, but I prefer mine for capturing the nature of state-symmetrical cyclical rules in a consistent way. I didn't decide yet on the canonical order of my notation though. Whether survival should be considered a null variety of mutation is a matter of taste, of course.

BTW, did anyone try to write extensions to CAViewer in Clojure? I like Lispy syntax, PERL and functional style. Also a matter of personal opinion, of course. :)

Re: Symbiosis

Posted: September 23rd, 2020, 12:51 am
by lemon41625
Yoel wrote: September 23rd, 2020, 12:42 am BTW, did anyone try to write extensions to CAViewer in Clojure? I like Lispy syntax, PERL and functional style. Also a matter of personal opinion, of course. :)
I'm afraid that that isn't possible at least in terms of trying to get native support since CAViewer uses Java to define new rulespaces. Find the documentation on how to do it here: https://jedlimlx.github.io/Cellular-Aut ... iewer.html

Nevertheless, you could use an external ruletable generation program once CAViewer supports ruletables (ruletables aren't supported at the moment).

Re: Symbiosis

Posted: September 23rd, 2020, 3:30 am
by Yoel
lemon41625 wrote: September 23rd, 2020, 12:51 am
Yoel wrote: September 23rd, 2020, 12:42 am BTW, did anyone try to write extensions to CAViewer in Clojure? I like Lispy syntax, PERL and functional style. Also a matter of personal opinion, of course. :)
I'm afraid that that isn't possible at least in terms of trying to get native support since CAViewer uses Java to define new rulespaces. Find the documentation on how to do it here: https://jedlimlx.github.io/Cellular-Aut ... iewer.html

Nevertheless, you could use an external ruletable generation program once CAViewer supports ruletables (ruletables aren't supported at the moment).
Standard Clojure runs on JVM and is meant to be fully mixable with Java, very much like Scala, but with Lispy syntax and interactivity. It natively supports the entire Java API. Compiled Clojure code is just Java jars. There are dialects of Clojure for Javascript VM and .NET, but I never used them and I don't know much about them. Most likely, there are incompatible with each other, besides some basic functionality.

BTW, there is also an implementation of Common Lisp for Java called Armed Bear Common Lisp (ABCL). It also produces Java jars for integration within Java code, enables the entire Java API inside Lisp (in somewhat ugly way though), inclusion of Java code inside Lisp etc. However, it's slow and it deviates from mainstream Lisps on unexpected subtle levels. People usually use it for functional style of scripting to put pieces of Java code together. Clojure, on the other hand, is only marginally slower than regular Java (like Scala).

ABCL is totally OK for turning my ruletable generator into a Java class, but not suitable for CAs (way too slow for that kind of things).

Re: Symbiosis

Posted: September 23rd, 2020, 8:01 am
by Rhombic
Novel H->(H+G)

Code: Select all

x = 19, y = 11, rule = Symbiosis
8.A$8.3A$8.A.A$10.A2$B$2A$.B2$5.B2A5.AB2.B$7.B10.A!
[[STOP 218]]

Re: Symbiosis

Posted: September 23rd, 2020, 8:58 am
by wwei23
Rhombic wrote: September 23rd, 2020, 8:01 am Novel H->(H+G)
Can a Conduit 1 get rid of that extra block?

Re: Symbiosis

Posted: September 23rd, 2020, 11:12 am
by EvinZL
wwei23 wrote: September 23rd, 2020, 8:58 am
Rhombic wrote: September 23rd, 2020, 8:01 am Novel H->(H+G)
Can a Conduit 1 get rid of that extra block?
No, but this can:

Code: Select all

x = 46, y = 20, rule = Symbiosis
22.B$21.2A3$26.A$26.B2$2.A15.2A$2.A15.2A$3A32.A$A34.3A$35.A.A$37.A$
26.B$26.AB$27.2A$28.B2$32.B2A5.AB2.B$34.B10.A!

Re: Symbiosis

Posted: September 23rd, 2020, 12:10 pm
by bubblegum
EvinZL wrote: September 23rd, 2020, 11:12 am
wwei23 wrote: September 23rd, 2020, 8:58 am
Rhombic wrote: September 23rd, 2020, 8:01 am Novel H->(H+G)
Can a Conduit 1 get rid of that extra block?
No, but this can:

Code: Select all

x = 46, y = 20, rule = Symbiosis
22.B$21.2A3$26.A$26.B2$2.A15.2A$2.A15.2A$3A32.A$A34.3A$35.A.A$37.A$
26.B$26.AB$27.2A$28.B2$32.B2A5.AB2.B$34.B10.A!
...conduit 1?

Re: Symbiosis

Posted: September 23rd, 2020, 1:37 pm
by EvinZL
bubblegum wrote: September 23rd, 2020, 12:10 pm
EvinZL wrote: September 23rd, 2020, 11:12 am

Code: Select all

x = 46, y = 20, rule = Symbiosis
22.B$21.2A3$26.A$26.B2$2.A15.2A$2.A15.2A$3A32.A$A34.3A$35.A.A$37.A$
26.B$26.AB$27.2A$28.B2$32.B2A5.AB2.B$34.B10.A!
...conduit 1?
With a BFx10B in front

Re: Symbiosis

Posted: September 23rd, 2020, 2:29 pm
by bubblegum
EvinZL wrote: September 23rd, 2020, 1:37 pm
bubblegum wrote: September 23rd, 2020, 12:10 pm
EvinZL wrote: September 23rd, 2020, 11:12 am

Code: Select all

x = 46, y = 20, rule = Symbiosis
22.B$21.2A3$26.A$26.B2$2.A15.2A$2.A15.2A$3A32.A$A34.3A$35.A.A$37.A$
26.B$26.AB$27.2A$28.B2$32.B2A5.AB2.B$34.B10.A!
...conduit 1?
With a BFx10B in front
ah

Re: Symbiosis

Posted: September 24th, 2020, 1:27 pm
by Rhombic
LoM->G

Code: Select all

x = 22, y = 12, rule = Symbiosis
2.2A$3.2A$4.2A4$21.A$21.B$2.A$B3AB.B8.A$2.B4.A6.AB.A$8.B5.B2.B!
Ternary counter:

Code: Select all

x = 36, y = 7, rule = Symbiosis
2.A12.A12.A$A.A10.A.A10.A.A$.2A4.B6.2A4.B6.2A4.B$8.A12.A12.A$9.B9.2A.
B9.A2.B$18.A.A11.2A$19.A!
B->H:

Code: Select all

x = 23, y = 22, rule = Symbiosis
B$A4$11.2A.A$12.3A$13.A4$20.B$21.A$22.B6$14.A$12.B3AB$14.B!