Forums for Conway's Game of Life
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They could do that if they're hurt after they use the sulfuric acid. The sulfuric acid would probably stun the prey, buying time to repair the membrane.MathAndCode wrote: March 1st, 2021, 1:29 pm They'd have to evolve a way to do that anyway because their membranes would accumulate wear and tear over time even without predation. However, it probably wouldn't be fast enough.
The organisms don't have nervous systems yet. Also, I'm not sure that the sulfuric acid will be concentrated enough to do significant harm.Schiaparelliorbust wrote: March 1st, 2021, 1:38 pmThey could do that if they're hurt after they use the sulfuric acid. The sulfuric acid would probably stun the prey, buying time to repair the membrane.
Then forget the stunning. Is everything else okay?MathAndCode wrote: March 1st, 2021, 2:04 pm The organisms don't have nervous systems yet. Also, I'm not sure that the sulfuric acid will be concentrated enough to do significant harm.
If there is a hole in the prey organism's membrane, why can't the predator just get the methane coming out of that?Schiaparelliorbust wrote: March 1st, 2021, 2:10 pmThen forget the stunning. Is everything else okay?
They can. If they smother the creature they will get it without as much leaking. Didn't we agree on engulfing though?MathAndCode wrote: March 1st, 2021, 2:14 pm If there is a hole in the prey organism's membrane, why can't the predator just get the methane coming out of that?
Yes, but they'll probably have to smother the prey before they're finished engulfing because otherwise, the methane will leak out.Schiaparelliorbust wrote: March 1st, 2021, 2:21 pmThey can. If they smother the creature they will get it without as much leaking. Didn't we agree on engulfing though?
Ok, understood. Are we done with the predator-prey interactions now or not?MathAndCode wrote: March 1st, 2021, 2:36 pm Yes, but they'll probably have to smother the prey before they're finished engulfing because otherwise, the methane will leak out.
I think that we're done. Now we should discuss what new species will arise.Schiaparelliorbust wrote: March 1st, 2021, 2:38 pmOk, understood. Are we done with the predator-prey interactions now or not?
What do you mean by "species" exactly? If we're talking about microbial ones, I don't think there's too much room or incentive to change at the moment.MathAndCode wrote: March 1st, 2021, 2:42 pm I think that we're done. Now we should discuss what new species will arise.
A hydrothermal vent near the surface will likely foster increased diversity.Schiaparelliorbust wrote: March 1st, 2021, 2:44 pmWhat do you mean by "species" exactly? If we're talking about microbial ones, I don't think there's too much room or incentive to change at the moment.
I thought that we had figured out the ecological niches. Do you think that there there are any we haven't covered?MathAndCode wrote: March 1st, 2021, 3:09 pm A hydrothermal vent near the surface will likely foster increased diversity.
The additional source of energy will allow an increased number of niches.Schiaparelliorbust wrote: March 1st, 2021, 3:17 pmI thought that we had figured out the ecological niches. Do you think that there there are any we haven't covered?
Sorry, I meant to ask what niches we may not have covered.MathAndCode wrote: March 1st, 2021, 3:21 pm The additional source of energy will allow an increased number of niches.
We haven't covered reactions with nitrogen-containing compounds much.Schiaparelliorbust wrote: March 1st, 2021, 3:23 pmSorry, I meant to ask what niches we may not have covered.
You're right. What might they do with formamide or ammonia? Those are the two most abundant nitrogen containing compounds I think.MathAndCode wrote: March 1st, 2021, 3:29 pm We haven't covered reactions with nitrogen-containing compounds much.
It's possible that nitrile groups, nitro groups, nitroso groups, and/or other instances of conjugated nitrogen atoms could be used in photosynthetic pigments. It's possible that the alien organisms' amino acid analogues could join together by creating a carboxamide group, as life does on Earth, or a sulfonamide group, which would make the protein analogues more durable but harder to break down and less flexible. I'm sure that nitrogen would occur in at least a couple amino acid side chains, and it's probably that some nitrogen-containing compounds would be used in niche roles.Schiaparelliorbust wrote: March 1st, 2021, 3:33 pmYou're right. What might they do with formamide or ammonia? Those are the two most abundant nitrogen containing compounds I think.
I prefer carboxamides both because we know how they work better and I don't really see an advantage to them being more durable.MathAndCode wrote: March 1st, 2021, 5:34 pm It's possible that nitrile groups, nitro groups, nitroso groups, and/or other instances of conjugated nitrogen atoms could be used in photosynthetic pigments. It's possible that the alien organisms' amino acid analogues could join together by creating a carboxamide group, as life does on Earth, or a sulfonamide group, which would make the protein analogues more durable but harder to break down and less flexible. I'm sure that nitrogen would occur in at least a couple amino acid side chains, and it's probably that some nitrogen-containing compounds would be used in niche roles.
Okay. However, I suspect that the organisms will at least use sulfonamide bonds between their R groups in order to stabilize proteins analogous to disulfide bonds between cysteine R groups in life on Earth.Schiaparelliorbust wrote: March 2nd, 2021, 9:40 amI prefer carboxamides both because we know how they work better and I don't really see an advantage to them being more durable.
Ok, that's fine by me. What else?MathAndCode wrote: March 2nd, 2021, 1:04 pm Okay. However, I suspect that the organisms will at least use sulfonamide bonds between their R groups in order to stabilize proteins analogous to disulfide bonds between cysteine R groups in life on Earth.
They'll probably have the capacity for disulfide bridges as well, partially because sulfur is relatively common.
Thanks. If you don't mind could you just list everything chemistry related that you'd like? Single ideas per posts about chemistry are slowing things down IMO because I can't contribute much.MathAndCode wrote: March 2nd, 2021, 2:50 pm They'll probably have the capacity for disulfide bridges as well, partially because sulfur is relatively common.
Here are all of the different types of R groups that I think that the species will likely have:Schiaparelliorbust wrote: March 3rd, 2021, 1:37 amThanks. If you don't mind could you just list everything chemistry related that you'd like? Single ideas per posts about chemistry are slowing things down IMO because I can't contribute much.
Do the amino acids we use have these properties? Also, how does the amino acids we use being alpha-amino acids affect anything?MathAndCode wrote: March 3rd, 2021, 11:58 am Here are all of the different types of R groups that I think that the species will likely have:We're using alpha-amino acids, right?
- At least three nonpolar hydrocarbon R groups
- At least one aromatic R group
- At least two R groups with a hydroxyl group
- At least one acidic R group with a carboyxl group
- At least one acidic R group with a sulfo group
- At least two basic R groups with a basic nitrogen atom
- At least one R group with a thiol group
- At least one R group with an amide group
Life on Earth uses amino acids with most but not all of those properties. Also, alpha-amino acids have their carboxyl and amine groups closer together than other amino acids, and they are what humans and other organisms on Earth use.Schiaparelliorbust wrote: March 3rd, 2021, 12:43 pmDo the amino acids we use have these properties? Also, how does the amino acids we use being alpha-amino acids affect anything?
I know that, I asked if it had any effect.MathAndCode wrote: March 3rd, 2021, 1:14 pm Also, alpha-amino acids have their carboxyl and amine groups closer together than other amino acids, and they are what humans and other organisms on Earth use.