Let's create an alien biosphere!

[Schiaparelliorbust]

They'd have to evolve a way to do that anyway because their membranes would accumulate wear and tear over time even without predation. However, it probably wouldn't be fast enough.

They could do that if they're hurt after they use the sulfuric acid. The sulfuric acid would probably stun the prey, buying time to repair the membrane.

[MathAndCode]

They could do that if they're hurt after they use the sulfuric acid. The sulfuric acid would probably stun the prey, buying time to repair the membrane.

The organisms don't have nervous systems yet. Also, I'm not sure that the sulfuric acid will be concentrated enough to do significant harm.

[Schiaparelliorbust]

The organisms don't have nervous systems yet. Also, I'm not sure that the sulfuric acid will be concentrated enough to do significant harm.

Then forget the stunning. Is everything else okay?

[MathAndCode]

Then forget the stunning. Is everything else okay?

If there is a hole in the prey organism's membrane, why can't the predator just get the methane coming out of that?

[Schiaparelliorbust]

If there is a hole in the prey organism's membrane, why can't the predator just get the methane coming out of that?

They can. If they smother the creature they will get it without as much leaking. Didn't we agree on engulfing though?

[MathAndCode]

They can. If they smother the creature they will get it without as much leaking. Didn't we agree on engulfing though?

Yes, but they'll probably have to smother the prey before they're finished engulfing because otherwise, the methane will leak out.

[Schiaparelliorbust]

Yes, but they'll probably have to smother the prey before they're finished engulfing because otherwise, the methane will leak out.

Ok, understood. Are we done with the predator-prey interactions now or not?

[MathAndCode]

Ok, understood. Are we done with the predator-prey interactions now or not?

I think that we're done. Now we should discuss what new species will arise.

[Schiaparelliorbust]

I think that we're done. Now we should discuss what new species will arise.

What do you mean by "species" exactly? If we're talking about microbial ones, I don't think there's too much room or incentive to change at the moment.

[MathAndCode]

What do you mean by "species" exactly? If we're talking about microbial ones, I don't think there's too much room or incentive to change at the moment.

A hydrothermal vent near the surface will likely foster increased diversity.

[Schiaparelliorbust]

A hydrothermal vent near the surface will likely foster increased diversity.

I thought that we had figured out the ecological niches. Do you think that there there are any we haven't covered?

[MathAndCode]

I thought that we had figured out the ecological niches. Do you think that there there are any we haven't covered?

The additional source of energy will allow an increased number of niches.

[Schiaparelliorbust]

The additional source of energy will allow an increased number of niches.

Sorry, I meant to ask what niches we may not have covered.

[MathAndCode]

Sorry, I meant to ask what niches we may not have covered.

We haven't covered reactions with nitrogen-containing compounds much.

[Schiaparelliorbust]

We haven't covered reactions with nitrogen-containing compounds much.

You're right. What might they do with formamide or ammonia? Those are the two most abundant nitrogen containing compounds I think.

[MathAndCode]

You're right. What might they do with formamide or ammonia? Those are the two most abundant nitrogen containing compounds I think.

It's possible that nitrile groups, nitro groups, nitroso groups, and/or other instances of conjugated nitrogen atoms could be used in photosynthetic pigments. It's possible that the alien organisms' amino acid analogues could join together by creating a carboxamide group, as life does on Earth, or a sulfonamide group, which would make the protein analogues more durable but harder to break down and less flexible. I'm sure that nitrogen would occur in at least a couple amino acid side chains, and it's probably that some nitrogen-containing compounds would be used in niche roles.

[Schiaparelliorbust]

It's possible that nitrile groups, nitro groups, nitroso groups, and/or other instances of conjugated nitrogen atoms could be used in photosynthetic pigments. It's possible that the alien organisms' amino acid analogues could join together by creating a carboxamide group, as life does on Earth, or a sulfonamide group, which would make the protein analogues more durable but harder to break down and less flexible. I'm sure that nitrogen would occur in at least a couple amino acid side chains, and it's probably that some nitrogen-containing compounds would be used in niche roles.

I prefer carboxamides both because we know how they work better and I don't really see an advantage to them being more durable.

[MathAndCode]

I prefer carboxamides both because we know how they work better and I don't really see an advantage to them being more durable.

Okay. However, I suspect that the organisms will at least use sulfonamide bonds between their R groups in order to stabilize proteins analogous to disulfide bonds between cysteine R groups in life on Earth.

[Schiaparelliorbust]

Okay. However, I suspect that the organisms will at least use sulfonamide bonds between their R groups in order to stabilize proteins analogous to disulfide bonds between cysteine R groups in life on Earth.

Ok, that's fine by me. What else?

[MathAndCode]

Ok, that's fine by me. What else?

They'll probably have the capacity for disulfide bridges as well, partially because sulfur is relatively common.

[Schiaparelliorbust]

They'll probably have the capacity for disulfide bridges as well, partially because sulfur is relatively common.

Thanks. If you don't mind could you just list everything chemistry related that you'd like? Single ideas per posts about chemistry are slowing things down IMO because I can't contribute much.

[MathAndCode]

Thanks. If you don't mind could you just list everything chemistry related that you'd like? Single ideas per posts about chemistry are slowing things down IMO because I can't contribute much.

Here are all of the different types of R groups that I think that the species will likely have:

• At least three nonpolar hydrocarbon R groups
• At least one aromatic R group
• At least two R groups with a hydroxyl group
• At least one acidic R group with a carboyxl group
• At least one acidic R group with a sulfo group
• At least two basic R groups with a basic nitrogen atom
• At least one R group with a thiol group
• At least one R group with an amide group

We're using alpha-amino acids, right?

[Schiaparelliorbust]

Here are all of the different types of R groups that I think that the species will likely have:

• At least three nonpolar hydrocarbon R groups
• At least one aromatic R group
• At least two R groups with a hydroxyl group
• At least one acidic R group with a carboyxl group
• At least one acidic R group with a sulfo group
• At least two basic R groups with a basic nitrogen atom
• At least one R group with a thiol group
• At least one R group with an amide group

We're using alpha-amino acids, right?

Do the amino acids we use have these properties? Also, how does the amino acids we use being alpha-amino acids affect anything?

[MathAndCode]

Do the amino acids we use have these properties? Also, how does the amino acids we use being alpha-amino acids affect anything?

Life on Earth uses amino acids with most but not all of those properties. Also, alpha-amino acids have their carboxyl and amine groups closer together than other amino acids, and they are what humans and other organisms on Earth use.

[Schiaparelliorbust]

Also, alpha-amino acids have their carboxyl and amine groups closer together than other amino acids, and they are what humans and other organisms on Earth use.

I know that, I asked if it had any effect.