Re: Let's create an alien biosphere!
Posted: February 26th, 2021, 3:39 pm
They attached sulfite to sulfate, which also resulted in two extra electrons.
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They attached sulfite to sulfate, which also resulted in two extra electrons.
And how does that oxidize sulfur dioxide?MathAndCode wrote: February 26th, 2021, 3:39 pm They attached sulfite to sulfate, which also resulted in two extra electrons.
The sulfur atom in sulfite donates a lone pair to an oxygen atom in sulfate, resulting in a single bond.
And this then somehow forms sulfuric acid.MathAndCode wrote: February 26th, 2021, 4:50 pm The sulfur atom in sulfite donates a lone pair to an oxygen atom in sulfate, resulting in a single bond.
The hydrons don't have to be attached to the sulfate in order for the solution to be acidic.
Where did the hydrons come from?MathAndCode wrote: February 26th, 2021, 6:00 pm The hydrons don't have to be attached to the sulfate in order for the solution to be acidic.
electrostatic attraction
Oh ok. All that matters is that this creates sulfuric acid, right? Correct me if I'm mistaken, my chemistry is terrible.
Yes, it's equivalent to a sulfuric acid solution.Schiaparelliorbust wrote: February 26th, 2021, 6:41 pmOh ok. All that matters is that this creates sulfuric acid, right? Correct me if I'm mistaken, my chemistry is terrible.
And this forms naturally, so both predators and prey will both be used to acidic conditions, but it will still denature the protein spikes, right?
Yes, although come to think of it, I'm not sure how acidic the solution will be. I suppose that it depends on the concentration of sulfuric acid/bisulfate/sulfate.Schiaparelliorbust wrote: February 27th, 2021, 6:48 pmAnd this forms naturally, so both predators and prey will both be used to acidic conditions, but it will still denature the protein spikes, right?
Wouldn't the naturally occuring acid denature the protein spikes actually?MathAndCode wrote: February 27th, 2021, 6:49 pm Yes, although come to think of it, I'm not sure how acidic the solution will be. I suppose that it depends on the concentration of sulfuric acid/bisulfate/sulfate.
No because they would have evolved to handle that level of acidity.Schiaparelliorbust wrote: February 27th, 2021, 6:51 pmWouldn't the naturally occuring acid denature the protein spikes actually?
Would the secreted sulfuric acid then kill the prey?MathAndCode wrote: February 27th, 2021, 7:45 pm No because they would have evolved to handle that level of acidity.
That depends on how acidic the solution would be relative to the natural environment.Schiaparelliorbust wrote: February 28th, 2021, 12:18 pmWould the secreted sulfuric acid then kill the prey?
If it's enough to denature the protein spikes then it may be lethal. I'm not entirely sure though.MathAndCode wrote: February 28th, 2021, 12:21 pm That depends on how acidic the solution would be relative to the natural environment.
I'm not sure that the concentration of sulfate will be large enough for that to happen.Schiaparelliorbust wrote: February 28th, 2021, 1:13 pmIf it's enough to denature the protein spikes then it may be lethal. I'm not entirely sure though.
Do you have any other ideas?
I can't think of any other way to neutralize the spikes, so no.
Possibilities include excreting a small molecule that can denature the spikes and the cell membrane evolving to be resistant to the spikes. Neither seems very likely, though.Schiaparelliorbust wrote: February 28th, 2021, 1:59 pmI can't think of any other way to neutralize the spikes, so no.
I don't know too much about the former, but something like a double membrane sounds unlikely (unless you can think of some way it could evolve), so let's just go with the sulfuric acid.MathAndCode wrote: February 28th, 2021, 2:32 pm Possibilities include excreting a small molecule that can denature the spikes and the cell membrane evolving to be resistant to the spikes. Neither seems very likely, though.
The membranes are naturally double because phospholipids have a hydrophilic part and hydrophobic part, but that means that the spike proteins would already work on double membranes.Schiaparelliorbust wrote: February 28th, 2021, 3:36 pmI don't know too much about the former, but something like a double membrane sounds unlikely (unless you can think of some way it could evolve), so let's just go with the sulfuric acid.
Do you think they could perhaps repair torn membranes? They could send a vesicle (which I think would be pulled in the direction of the tear because of stuff moving outside) and it would fuse with the membrane fixing the tear.MathAndCode wrote: February 28th, 2021, 3:44 pm The membranes are naturally double because phospholipids have a hydrophilic part and hydrophobic part, but that means that the spike proteins would already work on double membranes.
They'd have to evolve a way to do that anyway because their membranes would accumulate wear and tear over time even without predation. However, it probably wouldn't be fast enough.Schiaparelliorbust wrote: March 1st, 2021, 9:19 amDo you think they could perhaps repair torn membranes? They could send a vesicle (which I think would be pulled in the direction of the tear because of stuff moving outside) and it would fuse with the membrane fixing the tear.