I can explain some of these:
But the example that I gave is not a real apgcode. Even different patterns in the same rule could both have that apgcode.goldenratio wrote: October 1st, 2020, 6:11 pmOddity 3: Comments for an apgcode are shared for all rules.
The population the set of cells corresponding to a BLSE does not become infinite in B3S135.goldenratio wrote: October 1st, 2020, 6:11 pmOddity 1: Catagolue doesn't check if linear growth apgcodes are actually valid since (as far as I know) they are based on population changes and not what the pattern actually is: http://catagolue.hatsya.com/object/yl5_ ... owth/b3s23
Yes, all replicators in a rule are lumped into the single "zz_REPLICATOR" object. Apgcodes don't even have to be real, you could make something up. Catagolue also doesn't check apgcodes for xp0_whatever, xs0_whatever and xq0_whatever.MathAndCode wrote: October 1st, 2020, 6:13 pm But the example that I gave is not a real apgcode. Even different patterns in the same rule could both have that apgcode.
The population the set of cells corresponding to a BLSE does not become infinite in B3S135.
This is a problem with apgsearch rather than Catagolue. It has looked at the population graph (and possibly other things as well) for the pattern and has determined it is a replicator, and marked it as "zz_REPLICATOR". Occasionally you'll also get PATHOLOGICALS that are just regular objects as well (this is an apgsearch problem, not Catagolue).Period-11,843 guns are apparently replicators.
It has been advised by Calcyman (APGoucher, creator of Catagolue / Apgsearch) that custom rules searched should have a minimum of rotate4reflect symmetry, this is because to obtain the canonical apgcode of a pattern, all reflections and symmetries are tried for the shortest / alphabetically first apgcodeMarine...
Ah; thank you for explaining. But why does apgcode use Marine, which LifeViewer does not recognize, instead of a recognizable rulestring?Saka wrote: October 1st, 2020, 10:39 pmIt has been advised by Calcyman (APGoucher, creator of Catagolue / Apgsearch) that custom rules searched should have a minimum of rotate4reflect symmetry, this is because to obtain the canonical apgcode of a pattern, all reflections and symmetries are tried for the shortest / alphabetically first apgcode
I'll explain all of these:MathAndCode wrote: October 1st, 2020, 5:29 pm Linear growth patterns "work" in incorrect rules.
Catalogue uses apparent hashes that can be longer than the actual apgcodes.
Pages for replicators in one rule have comments about replicators in different rules.
This rule's rulestring displays incorrectly. (It should be S,B4, not S0,0,0,0,0,0,B0,0,0,0,0,8.)
Period-11,843 guns are apparently replicators. I would get pathological because the period is over 1,000, but I do not understand how it thinks that a gun is a replicator.
The LifeViewers for objects in Marine (example) don't work because they are fed Marine as a rulestring. The correct rulestring for the orientation that the patterns are shown in would be R2,C2,S,B1,N@f7bbc0, but the forum thread uses R2,C2,S4,6-9,B6-8,N@03ddef (which is a 180° rotation of the former), and I'm used to N@03ddef, so if the rulestring is updated, I'd prefer for it to be updated to that if possible, although it might not be possible to rotate all of the patterns and soups by 180°, in which case I will understand. (Of course, I'll also understand if this isn't updated because Marine is a relatively obscure rule.)
In Marine, separate spaceships are counted as one spaceship.
Many of the Life-like rules have dead links to Fano.
Why does Catagolue catalogue the rule where nothing interesting happens because nothing happens or the rule where nothing interesting happens because every generation is the same as before except inverted, so every pattern that is not on a torus or another grid of finite cell count is infinitely oversized?
Is Catagolue a misspelling of catalogue?
why can't i introduce a quote into an editMathAndCode wrote: October 1st, 2020, 11:04 pmAh; thank you for explaining. But why does apgcode use Marine, which LifeViewer does not recognize, instead of a recognizable rulestring?Saka wrote: October 1st, 2020, 10:39 pmIt has been advised by Calcyman (APGoucher, creator of Catagolue / Apgsearch) that custom rules searched should have a minimum of rotate4reflect symmetry, this is because to obtain the canonical apgcode of a pattern, all reflections and symmetries are tried for the shortest / alphabetically first apgcode
As far as I can tell, the python version usually does much better than the command line version at this.bubblegum wrote: October 1st, 2020, 11:14 pm 7) apgsearch is terrible at spaceship spearing... separation. Don't bother.
To correct / nitpick this a bit, it seems that lemon41625 has been searching marine, not MatHandCode (https://catagolue.hatsya.com/census/xmarine/C1), and they did so using a custom ruletable (because you need ruletables to search custom neighborhood rules as of now), and Catagolue takes the name of the ruleTable and puts it into LifeViewer (which makes sense).
This is related to apgsearch not generally reporting sample soups for very common objects. I can't remember what the threshold is but the original design choice centred on the assumption that for very common objects it would be easy enough to find soups that generated the object manually and therefore recording soups for them would just needlessly increase the haul size. However, due to a quick in sample soup reporting (I think related to pseudo object separation, or possibly linear growth detection) there were some situations where common objects would have sample soups recorded. I don't know if current versions of apgsearch still have this behaviour.MathAndCode wrote: October 21st, 2020, 11:06 pm The twenty-ninth most common object (Big S) apparently has only appeared eleven times in C1. I've seen Catagolue not mention any soups if an object is too common, but I've never seen it give a falsely low number before.
Unfortunately, for me this is sometimes annoying because I can't find the original hauls in which these objects occurred. For example a few days ago I was looking at the b3s23/ikpx2_stdin census and found yl8_1_3_1463956f33241332e72e4a2c9f4ecc61, which has over 300 occurrences but no sample soups. And due to the nature of ikpx2_stdin, what probably happened was that the object appeared several hundred times in a few hauls, and zero times everywhere else, making it difficult to track down. Based on its apgcode it's definitely some sort of c/2 blinker puffer, but I don't know if it's the standard xWSS-based one or something different.wildmyron wrote: October 21st, 2020, 11:16 pm This is related to apgsearch not generally reporting sample soups for very common objects. I can't remember what the threshold is but the original design choice centred on the assumption that for very common objects it would be easy enough to find soups that generated the object manually and therefore recording soups for them would just needlessly increase the haul size. However, due to a quick in sample soup reporting (I think related to pseudo object separation, or possibly linear growth detection) there were some situations where common objects would have sample soups recorded. I don't know if current versions of apgsearch still have this behaviour.
Fortunately none of the hauls had been deleted so I was able to retrieve this one manually:Ian07 wrote: October 22nd, 2020, 7:14 am Unfortunately, for me this is sometimes annoying because I can't find the original hauls in which these objects occurred. For example a few days ago I was looking at the b3s23/ikpx2_stdin census and found yl8_1_3_1463956f33241332e72e4a2c9f4ecc61, which has over 300 occurrences but no sample soups. And due to the nature of ikpx2_stdin, what probably happened was that the object appeared several hundred times in a few hauls, and zero times everywhere else, making it difficult to track down. Based on its apgcode it's definitely some sort of c/2 blinker puffer, but I don't know if it's the standard xWSS-based one or something different.
Code: Select all
x = 21, y = 106, rule = B3/S23
8bo3bo$7b3ob3o$6b2obobob2o$5b2o7b2o$6bo7bo$5b2o7b2o$3b2obobo3bobob2o$
4bobob2ob2obobo$b2obo2bobobobo2bob2o$b2obob2obobob2obob2o$bo2bobo2bobo
2bobo2bo$2o2bo11bo2b2o$8b2ob2o$4b2o9b2o$3bo13bo$3b2o11b2o$3b2o11b2o$b
2o15b2o$bo2bo11bo2bo$obob2o9b2obobo$4bobo7bobo$3b2ob2o5b2ob2o$3bo13bo$
6bobo3bobo$2b2o2bob2ob2obo2b2o$5b2o7b2o$9bobo$5bo3bobo3bo$4bo2bo5bo2bo
$5bo9bo2$3b2ob2o5b2ob2o$3b2ob2o5b2ob2o$3bo3bo5bo3bo$2b2o3b2o3b2o3b2o$
2bo5bo3bo5bo$bobo3bobobobo3bobo$5bo9bo$4bobo7bobo$3b2ob2o5b2ob2o$2bob
4o5b4obo$b2o15b2o$o3bob2o5b2obo3bo$4b2obo5bob2o$2obob3o5b3obob2o$7b2o
3b2o$bo17bo$bo17bo2$2o17b2o$2bo15bo$o2bo5b3o5bo2bo$bo2bo3bo3bo3bo2bo$
4bo2bo5bo2bo$5b3o5b3o$2b2obobob3obobob2o$2b2o3bobobobo3b2o$3b2o2bo5bo
2b2o$3bo4bo3bo4bo$3bo6bo6bo$9bobo$2b2o4bo3bo4b2o$4bo4b3o4bo$2bo2bo2b2o
b2o2bo2bo$3bo2bo7bo2bo$6b4ob4o$5bobo5bobo2$3b2o3bo3bo3b2o$3bobo2b2ob2o
2bobo$5b3o5b3o$2b2o2bo2bobo2bo2b2o$6bo7bo$7b7o$5bobo5bobo$4b2obo5bob2o
$10bo$6bo3bo3bo$4b2o4bo4b2o2$4b2o2b2ob2o2b2o$4b2o2b2ob2o2b2o$4bobobobo
bobobo$2b2ob2o7b2ob2o$2bo2bo9bo2bo$bobo3b7o3bobo$6b9o2$7bob3obo$8bobob
o$5b2obo3bob2o$4bobo7bobo$3b2obob2ob2obob2o$2bobobo7bobobo$b2o3bobo3bo
bo3b2o$o3bo4bobo4bo3bo$3bo2b2o5b2o2bo$2o8bo8b2o$9b3o$4bo3b5o3bo$3b3ob
2o3b2ob3o$2b2o3bo5bo3b2o$b2o2bob7obo2b2o$2bo4bobobobo4bo$bobo13bobo$o
3b3obobobob3o3bo!Too large. Happens a lot.creeperman7002 wrote: November 16th, 2020, 7:25 pm Day and night's xq120 picture is not showing up
https://catagolue.hatsya.com/census/b36 ... 8/C1/xq120
Code: Select all
x = 16, y = 16, rule = B3/S23
oboboooboooboobb$
bobbbbbobbbobbbb$
bbbooobooobobobb$
bobbbbbobbbbbooo$
obobboboboooboob$
bbboobbbboobooob$
bobbbobobbbooobo$
boboooboooobbobb$
booobboooboobooo$
bbobboobbbbbbobo$
boobboobbboboobb$
oboooboobbbboobo$
obobboooboboobbb$
obobbooooboooobb$
bobbbobbobobooob$
bobobbobooobbobb!Specifically two in perfect antiphase whose histories touch. Next.creeperman7002 wrote: December 19th, 2020, 12:51 pm Hmm, Catagolue says that this soup produces a yl72, but it is 2 non-interacting block-laying SEs:Code: Select all
snip
The completed object is on the right. Catagolue parses this as one step to create the object on the left, then another to create another one of it while modifying the original to complete the synthesis (the steps are too close). This was actually submitted as two mirror-image ways to make the base and a conversion step.MathAndCode wrote: December 19th, 2020, 6:09 pm This object's synthesis appears to be the result of incorrectly separating a synthesis for some complicated object.
I recently submitted a merge request to lifelib to add support for B0 INT rules and higher range INT rule. The isotropic_other category is for B0 INT rules.LaundryPizza03 wrote: December 21st, 2020, 4:13 am This "isotropic_other" category is weird. Is it testing a new feature?
Yep, there's a lot of overly-expensive constellations on Catagolue, which are usually caused by failed synthesis steps.MathAndCode wrote: December 21st, 2020, 3:57 pm According to Catagolue, this eight-bit constellation (composed of a boat and a blinker) costs nine gliders.