ConwayLife.com • Thread for advanced questions - Page 3

Page 3 of 9

Re: Thread for advanced questions

Posted: March 24th, 2025, 6:52 pm

by get_Snacked

in B3/S23, what is the lowest possible density of an agar such that:
1) it completely dies in the next generation, and
2) removing any single cell will cause it to not satisfy condition 1?
what can be said about the highest possible density of such an agar?
this is my conjectured solution for the lowest possible density (1/4):

Code: Select all

x = 3, y = 3, rule = B3/S23:T4,4
obo2$obo!

i don't even know where to start with the highest possible density, though.

Re: Thread for advanced questions

Posted: March 24th, 2025, 7:02 pm

by tommyaweosme

get_Snacked wrote: March 24th, 2025, 6:52 pm i don't even know where to start with the highest possible density, though.

here is a 2/3 density agar that satisfies both conditions

Code: Select all

x = 2, y = 3, rule = B3/S23:T2,3
o$2o$bo!

Re: Thread for advanced questions

Posted: March 24th, 2025, 10:35 pm

by unname4798

get_Snacked wrote: March 24th, 2025, 6:52 pm in B3/S23, what is the lowest possible density of an agar such that:
1) it completely dies in the next generation, and
2) removing any single cell will cause it to not satisfy condition 1?
what can be said about the highest possible density of such an agar?
this is my conjectured solution for the lowest possible density (1/4):
Code: Select all
x = 3, y = 3, rule = B3/S23:T4,4
obo2$obo!

For the lowest density record, here is 0%

Code: Select all

x = 7, y = 7, rule = B3/S23:T256,256
obo2$obo!

Make 256 tend to ∞. I beat all other players.

tommyaweosme wrote: March 24th, 2025, 7:02 pm
get_Snacked wrote: March 24th, 2025, 6:52 pm i don't even know where to start with the highest possible density, though.
here is a 2/3 (note from unname4798: 66.6%) density agar that satisfies both conditions
Code: Select all
x = 2, y = 3, rule = B3/S23:T2,3
o$2o$bo!

For the highest density record, here is 100%

Code: Select all

#R Life:T2,1
2o!

I beat all other players.

Re: Thread for advanced questions

Posted: March 24th, 2025, 11:22 pm

by LuveelVoom

The first one is not an agar and the second one does not satisfy the condition- every cell still dies.

Re: Thread for advanced questions

Posted: March 24th, 2025, 11:24 pm

by unname4798

1. The example that was shown is an agar. The density actually tends to zero, but the lowest record is actually 0%
2. Every cell dies after a generation if you keep all cells, but if you remove only one, they're not dying at all.

Re: Thread for advanced questions

Posted: March 25th, 2025, 9:55 am

by get_Snacked

LuveelVoom wrote: March 24th, 2025, 11:22 pm The first one is not an agar and the second one does not satisfy the condition- every cell still dies.

no, unname's right on both of the questions. i think i'll come back and revisit this question once i have more conditions that make this question less trivial.

Re: Thread for advanced questions

Posted: March 25th, 2025, 10:00 am

by hotdogPi

The second example doesn't qualify. You're not removing a single cell; you're removing one cell from each 1×2 patch, which is half of the cells.

Re: Thread for advanced questions

Posted: March 25th, 2025, 10:03 am

by unname4798

hotdogPi wrote: March 25th, 2025, 10:00 am The second example doesn't qualify. You're not removing a single cell; you're removing one cell from each 1×2 patch, which is half of the cells.

But that still counts as removing one cell.

Re: Thread for advanced questions

Posted: March 25th, 2025, 11:43 am

by LuveelVoom

unname4798 wrote: March 25th, 2025, 10:03 am
hotdogPi wrote: March 25th, 2025, 10:00 am The second example doesn't qualify. You're not removing a single cell; you're removing one cell from each 1×2 patch, which is half of the cells.
But that still counts as removing one cell.

No. See this:

Code: Select all

 x = 20, y = 10, rule = LifeHistory:T20,10
2D18A$13A.6A$20A$20A$20A$20A$20A$20A$20A$20A!

The red area is a unit cell, but the question asked for removal of one cell from the entire agar. Note it still dies when we remove any one cell.

Re: Thread for advanced questions

Posted: March 25th, 2025, 12:00 pm

by unname4798

But it assumes 1x2, remove one cell from the portion of agar being repeated.

Re: Thread for advanced questions

Posted: March 25th, 2025, 1:00 pm

by dvgrn

unname4798 wrote: March 25th, 2025, 12:00 pm But it assumes 1x2, remove one cell from the portion of agar being repeated.

Heh, given the wording of the question, it seems like that's one valid way to interpret it.

I hope nobody spends more time on objections -- just because this was a very rare and satisfying opportunity for unname4798 to simultaneously provide workable solutions at both ends of the spectrum of possibiities, 0% and 100%.

Re: Thread for advanced questions

Posted: March 31st, 2025, 6:03 am

by hth3

Is there a way to make this into an actual synthesis of a one cell thick line? (excluding the domino sparks)

Code: Select all

x = 383, y = 16, rule = B3/S23
2bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bob
o3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bo
bo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3b
obo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3b
obo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo$3b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b
2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o
4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b
2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o
4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o$3bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo
5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo
5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo
5bo5bo2$3bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5b
o5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5b
o5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo$2bobo3b
obo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3b
obo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3b
obo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3b
obo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3b
obo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo$2b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o
4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b
2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o
4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b
2o4b2o4b2o2$2b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b
2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o
4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b
2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o$2b2o4b2o4b
2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o
4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b
2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o
4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4$b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o
4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b
2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o
4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b
2o4b2o4b2o4b2o$obo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3b
obo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3b
obo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3b
obo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3b
obo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo$2bo5bo5bo5bo5bo
5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo
5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo
5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo!

Forgive me if this is dumb or not advanced.
EDIT: Here is a way to almost do this on one side:

Code: Select all

x = 389, y = 16, rule = B3/S23
2bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bob
o3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bo
bo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3b
obo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3b
obo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo$3b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b
2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o
4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b
2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o
4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o$3bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo
5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo
5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo
5bo5bo2$3bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5b
o5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5b
o5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo$2bob
o3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bo
bo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3b
obo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3b
obo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3b
obo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo2b2o$2b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b
2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o
4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b
2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o
4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o2$2b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o
4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b
2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o
4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b
2o$2b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b
2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o
4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b
2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o2$386b3o$386bo$b2o4b
2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o
4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b
2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o
4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o6bo$obo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3b
obo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3b
obo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3b
obo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3b
obo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo3b
obo3bobo3bobo$2bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5b
o5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5b
o5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo!

Re: Thread for advanced questions

Posted: March 31st, 2025, 8:40 am

by confocaloid

This may or may not be a clear answerable question, but I wonder what could be a "hexagonal analogue" of Serizawa?
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=638&start=25 Serizawa
What could be an "analogue" of Serizawa on the hexagonal tiling?

: serizawa-figure-1.png (98.78 KiB) Viewed 2146 times

(For an otherwise-mostly-unrelated example of how "analogue" might be interpreted, there is Bosco and there is "Bosco Analogue". While I don't remember seeing any explanation of that choice of the ruleset and the name for it, the latter has a period-52 mod-26 bug shuttle oscillator comparable to the period-166 mod-83 Bosco.)

Code: Select all

#C https://catagolue.hatsya.com/object/xp52_gsuvvvvskzfffvgggpf2/r5b31t42s34t53
#C https://catagolue.hatsya.com/census/r5b31t42s34t53
#C [[ GRID THEME MCell ZOOM 6 SHOWGENSTATS ]]
x = 10, y = 10, rule = R5,C0,M1,S34..53,B31..42,NM
3b4o$2b5o$b8o$b7o$9o$4o3b2o$4o4b2o$4o4bo$4o3b2o$3b5o!

Code: Select all

#C https://catagolue.hatsya.com/object/xp166_gsuvvvuuoz7ffvggpc7/r5b34t45s34t58
#C https://catagolue.hatsya.com/census/r5b34t45s34t58
#C [[ GRID THEME MCell ZOOM 4 SHOWGENSTATS ]]
x = 9, y = 10, rule = R5,C0,M1,S34..58,B34..45,NM
3b3o$2b6o$b7o$b8o$9o$4o2bobo$4o4bo$4o3b2o$b3o2b2o$3b4o!

Re: Thread for advanced questions

Posted: March 31st, 2025, 9:17 am

by b-engine

confocaloid wrote: March 31st, 2025, 8:40 am This may or may not be a clear answerable question, but I wonder what could be a "hexagonal analogue" of Serizawa?

What could be an "analogue" of Serizawa on the hexagonal tiling?

Tried hard to replicate the ruletable in hexagonal neighborhood, but I only get this rule with soups disintegrating into nothing:

Code: Select all

#R SerizawaHex
!
[[ RANDOMIZE ]]

@RULE SerizawaHex
@TABLE
n_states:3
neighborhood:hexagonal
symmetries:rotate6reflect
var a={0,1,2}
var a1=a
var a2=a
var a3=a
var a4=a
var a5=a
var a6=a
0,2,0,0,2,0,0,1
0,2,a,0,0,0,0,1
0,1,1,1,0,0,0,1
0,1,1,1,1,1,1,0
0,2,2,2,2,2,2,1
1,2,0,0,2,0,0,1
2,1,0,0,1,0,0,1
2,2,2,1,0,0,0,1
1,2,1,2,0,0,0,1
2,1,1,0,0,0,0,1
1,2,2,0,0,0,0,1
1,1,2,0,0,0,0,1
1,1,1,1,1,2,2,1
2,1,1,1,1,1,1,1
1,2,2,2,2,2,2,1
2,0,0,0,0,0,0,2
1,2,0,0,0,0,0,2
1,2,0,0,1,0,0,2
0,2,1,2,0,0,0,2
0,2,2,1,0,0,0,2
1,1,2,1,0,0,0,2
1,1,1,1,0,0,0,2

a,a1,a2,a3,a4,a5,a6,0

Re: Thread for advanced questions

Posted: March 31st, 2025, 9:58 am

by dvgrn

Given what Serizawa is famous for --

As of 2017, Serizawa's CA appears to be the simplest (in terms of neighborhood size×number of states) cellular automaton known to have a non-trivial replicator.

(obviously this was written before the 0E0P metacell showed up in 2018!)

-- it seems like a hexagonal Serizawa Analogue rule might not necessarily have to have low-level behavior that's somehow-or-other recognizable as "Serizawa-like" ... as long as it was capable of supporting universal construction with a surprisingly small number of states and a small neighborhood.

The analogy can stretch in various ways. Entertainingly, you could claim that a four-state hex rule would have the exact same value of the above metric as a three-state Moore-neighborhood rule. Each cell has six neighbors instead of eight, so with four states instead of three you'd have 6*4 = 24 = 8*3. (Yes, I'm sneakily not counting the center cell.)

BUT... Serizawa is a von-Neumann-neighborhood rule, so it's way ahead on that metric compared to any hex rule with more than two states, however you calculate it. Unless... has anyone ever tried defining a "von Neumann analogue" neighborhood on a hex grid, where each cell's neighbors consist of only three non-adjacent hexes, say north, southeast and southwest for every cell? That would be highly weird, since "neighborliness" would be one-way, and the rule wouldn't be entirely isotropic. Semi-isotropic, though?... anyway, probably a terrible idea.

Still, if someone can "just" come up with a three-state isotropic hex rule that supports universal construction, "Serizawa Analogue" might be a good name to apply to it. Nobody has found anything like that so far, have they?

Re: Thread for advanced questions

Posted: March 31st, 2025, 11:36 pm

by get_Snacked

how do i go about using CGoL to find the meaning of Life?

Re: Thread for advanced questions

Posted: March 31st, 2025, 11:53 pm

by LuveelVoom

get_Snacked wrote: March 31st, 2025, 11:36 pm how do i go about using CGoL to find the meaning of Life?

https://conwaylife.com/wiki/Universal_computer
(It might take a few billion years, though.)

Re: Thread for advanced questions

Posted: April 1st, 2025, 4:20 pm

by PiSpaceships

Is an explosion possible in Life?

I define explosion as a chaotic region that grows without bonds in all directions and never stabilizes.

I imagine a theoritical exploding pattern as a few rakes with low period that emit gliders in a way that they collide (sorry for my bad English). Before the newly created chaotic region stabilizes, new gliders collide with it, making more chaos, and then next, etc.

Re: Thread for advanced questions

Posted: April 1st, 2025, 4:41 pm

by dvgrn

PiSpaceships wrote: April 1st, 2025, 4:20 pm Is an explosion possible in Life?

I define explosion as a chaotic region that grows without bonds in all directions and never stabilizes.

We could probably engineer something that fits this description -- maybe something vaguely along the lines of Hydra except with each child copy having its own memory loop. A countdown timer in each copy of the replicator would eventually reach zero and cause a nasty explosion -- which would be hemmed in quite well by all the child copies around it. That would be especially true if the recipe for the replicator included building a scattering of protective blocks.

Some children would be destroyed by the explosions of their ancestors, but some might survive until their own countdown timers reached zero. Eventually each replicator would definitely explode, one way or another -- guaranteeing an expanding ring of chaos that seems very unlikely to ever become predictable.

I would guess that as long as some minor explosion-suppression structures are added, and the initial counter is set high enough, the chaos at the center will never catch up to all of the replicators around the edges. But I probably can't prove that for any given design without simulating it.

... And, as you will discover if you try causing chaos somewhere in the Hydra, this kind of pattern is absolutely awful to try to simulate as soon as there's chaos anywhere. HashLife can sort of kind of handle it as long as it stays absolutely regular, but it's a total lost cause as soon as anything goes wrong -- using up uncountable terabytes of memory very very quickly.

So even if this kind of design "counts" as an answer to the question, it might not really be possible to absolutely prove that any given design works, in the sense of provably expanding a chaotic ring indefinitely.

Re: Thread for advanced questions

Posted: April 1st, 2025, 5:24 pm

by confocaloid

PiSpaceships wrote: April 1st, 2025, 4:20 pm Is an explosion possible in Life?

I define explosion as a chaotic region that grows without bonds in all directions and never stabilizes.

I imagine a theoritical exploding pattern as a few rakes with low period that emit gliders in a way that they collide (sorry for my bad English). Before the newly created chaotic region stabilizes, new gliders collide with it, making more chaos, and then next, etc.

I think you would need to define more, before it would be possible to answer the question.
(How to decide whether or not something is a "chaotic region"?
How to decide whether or not it "stabilizes" at some point in time?
Are these considered two different, independent questions, or they are somehow interlinked together, or maybe they are "essentially the same" question? ...)

You might be interested in patterns under "Patterns/HashLife/Eventful/" directory in Golly's supplied pattern collection.
See also list of open problems in viewtopic.php?p=164201#p164201 "Re: Life has been proven omniperiodic. What next?"

Re: Thread for advanced questions

Posted: April 8th, 2025, 2:32 pm

by Vlev2

can somebody help me with creating a multistate rule?

Code: Select all

#C [[ ZOOM 16 GRID COLOR GRID 192 192 192 GRIDMAJOR 10 COLOR GRIDMAJOR 128 128 128 COLOR DEADRAMP 255 220 192 COLOR ALIVE 0 0 0 COLOR ALIVERAMP 0 0 0 COLOR DEAD 192 220 255 COLOR BACKGROUND 255 255 255 GPS 10 WIDTH 937 HEIGHT 600 ]]
@RULE Vlev2_Test_1

this is a test or something

@TABLE
n_states:3
neighborhood:Moore
symmetries:permute

0, 1,1,1,0,0,0,0,0, 1
1, 0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0, 0
1, 1,0,0,0,0,0,0,0, 0
1, 1,1,1,1,0,0,0,0, 0
1, 1,1,1,1,1,0,0,0, 0
1, 1,1,1,1,1,1,0,0, 0
1, 1,1,1,1,1,1,1,0, 0
1, 1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1, 0

var a1 = {0,1,2}
var a2 = {0,1,2}
var a3 = a1
var a4 = a1
var a5 = a1
var a6 = a1
var a7 = a1
var a8 = a1
var a9 = a1
1, 1,1,0,0,0,0,0,0, 1
a1, 1,1,1,0,0,0,0,0, 1
a1, a2,a3,a4,a5,a6,a7,a8,a9, 0

@COLORS
0 255 255 255
1 205 0 50
2 50 0 205

@NAMES
0 ded
1 alive
2 something

this is my first time trying to make a multistate rule, sorry if i'm bad at this
it's saying there's a @ symbol messing the system up, but i don't know which one

EDIT: it's been a few minutes, AND I FINALLY MADE MY FIRST MULTISTATE RULE :DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

but how do i make it so state 2 (something) works like state 1 (alive)?

Code: Select all

#C [[ ZOOM 16 GRID COLOR GRID 192 192 192 GRIDMAJOR 10 COLOR GRIDMAJOR 128 128 128 COLOR DEADRAMP 255 220 192 COLOR ALIVE 0 0 0 COLOR ALIVERAMP 0 0 0 COLOR DEAD 192 220 255 COLOR BACKGROUND 255 255 255 GPS 10 WIDTH 937 HEIGHT 600 ]]

x = 1, y = 1, rule = Vlev2_Test_1
b!
@RULE Vlev2_Test_1

this is a test or something

@TABLE
n_states:3
neighborhood:Moore
symmetries:permute

0, 1,1,1,0,0,0,0,0, 1
1, 0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0, 0
1, 1,0,0,0,0,0,0,0, 0
1, 1,1,1,1,0,0,0,0, 0
1, 1,1,1,1,1,0,0,0, 0
1, 1,1,1,1,1,1,0,0, 0
1, 1,1,1,1,1,1,1,0, 0
1, 1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1, 0

var a1 = {0,1,2}
var a2 = {0,1,2}
var a3 = a1
var a4 = a1
var a5 = a1
var a6 = a1
var a7 = a1
var a8 = a1
var a9 = a1
1, 1,1,0,0,0,0,0,0, 1
a1, 1,1,1,0,0,0,0,0, 1
a1, a2,a3,a4,a5,a6,a7,a8,a9, 0

@COLORS
0 255 255 255
1 205 0 50
2 50 0 205

@NAMES
0 ded
1 alive
2 something

Re: Thread for advanced questions

Posted: April 8th, 2025, 2:43 pm

by unname4798

Fixed:

Code: Select all

#C [[ ZOOM 16 GRID COLOR GRID 192 192 192 GRIDMAJOR 10 COLOR GRIDMAJOR 128 128 128 COLOR BACKGROUND 255 255 255 GPS 10 WIDTH 937 HEIGHT 600 ]]
#R Vlev2_Test_1
!
@RULE Vlev2_Test_1

this is a test or something

@TABLE
n_states:3
neighborhood:Moore
symmetries:permute

0, 1,1,1,0,0,0,0,0, 1
1, 0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0, 0
1, 1,0,0,0,0,0,0,0, 0
1, 1,1,1,1,0,0,0,0, 0
1, 1,1,1,1,1,0,0,0, 0
1, 1,1,1,1,1,1,0,0, 0
1, 1,1,1,1,1,1,1,0, 0
1, 1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1, 0

var a1 = {0,1,2}
var a2 = {0,1,2}
var a3 = a1
var a4 = a1
var a5 = a1
var a6 = a1
var a7 = a1
var a8 = a1
var a9 = a1
1, 1,1,0,0,0,0,0,0, 1
a1, 1,1,1,0,0,0,0,0, 1
a1, a2,a3,a4,a5,a6,a7,a8,a9, 0

@COLORS
0 255 255 255
1 205 0 50
2 50 0 205

@NAMES
0 ded
1 alive
2 something

Without LV commands:

Code: Select all

#R Vlev2_Test_1
!
@RULE Vlev2_Test_1

this is a test or something

@TABLE
n_states:3
neighborhood:Moore
symmetries:permute

0, 1,1,1,0,0,0,0,0, 1
1, 0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0, 0
1, 1,0,0,0,0,0,0,0, 0
1, 1,1,1,1,0,0,0,0, 0
1, 1,1,1,1,1,0,0,0, 0
1, 1,1,1,1,1,1,0,0, 0
1, 1,1,1,1,1,1,1,0, 0
1, 1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1, 0

var a1 = {0,1,2}
var a2 = {0,1,2}
var a3 = a1
var a4 = a1
var a5 = a1
var a6 = a1
var a7 = a1
var a8 = a1
var a9 = a1
1, 1,1,0,0,0,0,0,0, 1
a1, 1,1,1,0,0,0,0,0, 1
a1, a2,a3,a4,a5,a6,a7,a8,a9, 0

@COLORS
0 255 255 255
1 205 0 50
2 50 0 205

@NAMES
0 ded
1 alive
2 something

A variant of your rule:

Code: Select all

#R Vlev2_Test_1
!
@RULE Vlev2_Test_1

this is a test or something

@TABLE
n_states:3
neighborhood:Moore
symmetries:permute

0, 1,1,1,0,0,0,0,0, 1
1, 0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0, 0
1, 1,0,0,0,0,0,0,0, 0
1, 1,1,1,1,0,0,0,0, 0
1, 1,1,1,1,1,0,0,0, 0
1, 1,1,1,1,1,1,0,0, 0
1, 1,1,1,1,1,1,1,0, 0
1, 1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1, 0

var a1 = {0,1,2}
var a2 = {0,1,2}
var a3 = a1
var a4 = a1
var a5 = a1
var a6 = a1
var a7 = a1
var a8 = a1
var a9 = a1
0, 2,1,0,0,0,0,0,0, 2
0, 2,1,1,0,0,0,0,0, 1
0, 2,2,1,0,0,0,0,0, 1
1, 1,1,0,0,0,0,0,0, 1
a1, 1,1,1,0,0,0,0,0, 1
a1, a2,a3,a4,a5,a6,a7,a8,a9, 0

@COLORS
0 255 255 255
1 205 0 50
2 50 0 205

@NAMES
0 ded
1 alive
2 something

Re: Thread for advanced questions

Posted: April 8th, 2025, 3:17 pm

by dvgrn

Vlev2 wrote: April 8th, 2025, 2:32 pm but how do i make it so state 2 (something) works like state 1 (alive)?

Can you be a little more specific about the "something"?

It sounds like you might be asking for a way to set up state-2 cells that follow [some non-Life rule], where state-1 cells follow CGoL rules. But you might also be asking for something else entirely.

What should state-1 and state-2 cells do when they're both present in a neighborhood? What non-Life rule do you want state 2 to follow, if I'm guessing right about that?

Re: Thread for advanced questions

Posted: April 8th, 2025, 3:26 pm

by Vlev2

Vlev2 wrote: April 8th, 2025, 2:32 pm can somebody help me with creating a multistate rule?

Code: Select all

#C [[ ZOOM 16 GRID COLOR GRID 192 192 192 GRIDMAJOR 10 COLOR GRIDMAJOR 128 128 128 COLOR DEADRAMP 255 220 192 COLOR ALIVE 0 0 0 COLOR ALIVERAMP 0 0 0 COLOR DEAD 192 220 255 COLOR BACKGROUND 255 255 255 GPS 10 WIDTH 937 HEIGHT 600 ]]
@RULE Vlev2_Test_1

this is a test or something

@TABLE
n_states:3
neighborhood:Moore
symmetries:permute

0, 1,1,1,0,0,0,0,0, 1
1, 0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0, 0
1, 1,0,0,0,0,0,0,0, 0
1, 1,1,1,1,0,0,0,0, 0
1, 1,1,1,1,1,0,0,0, 0
1, 1,1,1,1,1,1,0,0, 0
1, 1,1,1,1,1,1,1,0, 0
1, 1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1, 0

var a1 = {0,1,2}
var a2 = {0,1,2}
var a3 = a1
var a4 = a1
var a5 = a1
var a6 = a1
var a7 = a1
var a8 = a1
var a9 = a1
1, 1,1,0,0,0,0,0,0, 1
a1, 1,1,1,0,0,0,0,0, 1
a1, a2,a3,a4,a5,a6,a7,a8,a9, 0

@COLORS
0 255 255 255
1 205 0 50
2 50 0 205

@NAMES
0 ded
1 alive
2 something

this is my first time trying to make a multistate rule, sorry if i'm bad at this
it's saying there's a @ symbol messing the system up, but i don't know which one

EDIT: it's been a few minutes, AND I FINALLY MADE MY FIRST MULTISTATE RULE :DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

but how do i make it so state 2 (something) works like state 1 (alive)?

Code: Select all

#C [[ ZOOM 16 GRID COLOR GRID 192 192 192 GRIDMAJOR 10 COLOR GRIDMAJOR 128 128 128 COLOR DEADRAMP 255 220 192 COLOR ALIVE 0 0 0 COLOR ALIVERAMP 0 0 0 COLOR DEAD 192 220 255 COLOR BACKGROUND 255 255 255 GPS 10 WIDTH 937 HEIGHT 600 ]]

x = 1, y = 1, rule = Vlev2_Test_1
b!
@RULE Vlev2_Test_1

this is a test or something

@TABLE
n_states:3
neighborhood:Moore
symmetries:permute

0, 1,1,1,0,0,0,0,0, 1
1, 0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0, 0
1, 1,0,0,0,0,0,0,0, 0
1, 1,1,1,1,0,0,0,0, 0
1, 1,1,1,1,1,0,0,0, 0
1, 1,1,1,1,1,1,0,0, 0
1, 1,1,1,1,1,1,1,0, 0
1, 1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1, 0

var a1 = {0,1,2}
var a2 = {0,1,2}
var a3 = a1
var a4 = a1
var a5 = a1
var a6 = a1
var a7 = a1
var a8 = a1
var a9 = a1
1, 1,1,0,0,0,0,0,0, 1
a1, 1,1,1,0,0,0,0,0, 1
a1, a2,a3,a4,a5,a6,a7,a8,a9, 0

@COLORS
0 255 255 255
1 205 0 50
2 50 0 205

@NAMES
0 ded
1 alive
2 something

i have finally achieved my FIRST MULTISTATE RULE :D
after 3/4 of an hour of confusion, trail, and error, i finally made my multistate rule work as i expected :)

Code: Select all

#C [[ ZOOM 16 GRID COLOR GRID 192 192 192 GRIDMAJOR 10 COLOR GRIDMAJOR 128 128 128 COLOR DEADRAMP 255 220 192 COLOR ALIVE 0 0 0 COLOR ALIVERAMP 0 0 0 COLOR DEAD 192 220 255 COLOR BACKGROUND 255 255 255 GPS 10 WIDTH 937 HEIGHT 600 ]]

x = 1, y = 1, rule = Vlev2_Test_1
1.A4.B$2.A4.B$AAA2.BBB!
@RULE Vlev2_Test_1

this is a test or something

@TABLE
n_states:3
neighborhood:Moore
symmetries:permute

0, 1,1,1,0,0,0,0,0, 1
1, 0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0, 0
1, 1,0,0,0,0,0,0,0, 0
1, 1,1,1,1,0,0,0,0, 0
1, 1,1,1,1,1,0,0,0, 0
1, 1,1,1,1,1,1,0,0, 0
1, 1,1,1,1,1,1,1,0, 0
1, 1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1, 2
0, 2,2,2,0,0,0,0,0, 2
2, 0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0, 0
2, 2,0,0,0,0,0,0,0, 0
2, 2,2,0,0,0,0,0,0, 2
2, 2,2,2,0,0,0,0,0, 2
2, 2,2,2,2,0,0,0,0, 0
2, 2,2,2,2,2,0,0,0, 0
2, 2,2,2,2,2,2,0,0 0
2, 2,2,2,2,2,2,2,0, 0
2, 2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2, 1

var a1 = {0,1,2}
var a2 = {0,1,2}
var a3 = a1
var a4 = a1
var a5 = a1
var a6 = a1
var a7 = a1
var a8 = a1
var a9 = a1
1, 1,1,0,0,0,0,0,0, 1
a1, 1,1,1,0,0,0,0,0, 1
a1, a2,a3,a4,a5,a6,a7,a8,a9, 0
a2, 1,1,1,0,0,0,0,0, 1
a2, a1,a3,a4,a5,a6,a7,a8,a9, 0

@COLORS
0 255 255 255
1 205 0 50
2 50 0 205

@NAMES
0 ded
1 alive
2 something

Re: Thread for advanced questions

Posted: April 8th, 2025, 3:37 pm

by confocaloid

Vlev2 wrote: April 8th, 2025, 3:26 pm [...] after 3/4 of an hour of confusion, trail, and error, i finally made my multistate rule work as i expected :) [...]

Interesting.
While of course it's hard to tell whether it works as intended, without knowing the idea behind "something", here is one observation.
The current version of your ruletable contains the following four lines, each of which defines a rule to be followed:

Code: Select all

a1, 1,1,1,0,0,0,0,0, 1
a1, a2,a3,a4,a5,a6,a7,a8,a9, 0
a2, 1,1,1,0,0,0,0,0, 1
a2, a1,a3,a4,a5,a6,a7,a8,a9, 0

Here, the variables a1, a2 are declared as follows: (ignore the other variables, because they're the same in similar lines)

Code: Select all

var a1 = {0,1,2}
var a2 = {0,1,2}

Because variables a1, a2 are declared in the exact same way, you could also write this instead (it should work the same way):

Code: Select all

var a1 = {0,1,2}
var a2 = a1

and it looks like your four rules actually state only two different rules: the following two rules are equivalent (variable name a1 replaced by a2; the structure of the rule remains the same):

Code: Select all

a1, 1,1,1,0,0,0,0,0, 1
a2, 1,1,1,0,0,0,0,0, 1

and the following two rules are also equivalent (variable names a1, a2 are exchanged; the structure of the rule remains the same):

Code: Select all

a1, a2,a3,a4,a5,a6,a7,a8,a9, 0
a2, a1,a3,a4,a5,a6,a7,a8,a9, 0

I don't see a reason to do that intentionally, so my guess here is that it was intended to work in some different way.