(Engineered) diehards

For discussion of specific patterns or specific families of patterns in Conway's Game of Life, both newly-discovered and well-known.
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Life73
Posts: 13
Joined: August 4th, 2026, 2:54 pm
Location: I am a being inside Life and Life is a being inside me

Re: (Engineered) diehards

Post by Life73 »

This produces 13096 loaves in 60 X 60 (parity only needs to be attended to for long streams of lone block laying gliders):
Code: Select all / Show in Viewer

Code: Select all

x = 60, y = 60, rule = B3/S23
11b6o2b4ob4ob2o25bob2o$13bo7b4obobo2bo10b3o12b3o$17bo6bobo2bo5bo5bo2bo
14bo$12b5o6bo3bobo4bob2obo4bo11b2obo$14b2o21bobo15bob3o$11bob2o24bobo
16b2o$5bo8bo14bo24b3ob2o$5b3o21b3o12b2o9bo$8bo23bo12bo8bo3bo$7b2o3bo
16b2obo9b3o10bo$12bobo14bobo3b2o4bo$11bobo21b2o4b4o$6bobo4bo30bo$7b2o
22b2o6b3o$7bo23b2o6bo2bo$15b2o3b2o2b2o14b2o$15b2o2bo2bo2bo18bo8b2obo$
3b2ob2o11bob2obo18bobo6bo5b2o$3b3o2bo3bo7bo3b2o10bo5bobo8b2ob2obo$2bo
4b2o2bobob2obobob2o6b2o3bobo5bo8b3obob2o$b3ob3o3bobobob2ob2obo6bobo3bo
16bo4b2o$b2obob2o4bo18b2o18bobo2bo2bo$bo49b2obobo$bo2b3obo44bo2bob2o$b
ob2o41bo6bo2bo2bo$21b2o13bo7b3o11b2o$4bo16b2o12bo2bo4bo7b2obo4bo$3bo
31bo2bo4b2o10b2ob2o$31b2o4bo21bo$2ob3o18b2o4bobo17b2obo3bo$2o2bo2bo16b
2o4b2o18bob2o$o6bo6b2o32bobo$2o2bo2bobo5bo11b2o5b2o11bobo2b2o$2bo4bo7b
obo8bobo4bobo12bo4bo$3bo2bobo7b2o3bo4b2o5bo4b2o3b2o7bo$5bo14bobo9b2o4b
2o3b2o7b2o$2bob3o3bo10bo25bob2obo$4bo5bo7bo10b2o9b3o4b2obo2bo$3bo3bo2b
2o5bobo8bobo9b3o7bob2o$12bo5bo4b2o3bo12bo5b2obobo4bobo$12b3o8b2o2b2o4b
2o12bobo2bo5bo$18bo14bo14bo3b2o3bobo$16bo18bo22b2o$12bo4b4o7b2o4b2o20b
o2bo$14bobo11b2o3bo24b2o$14b2o5bo4b2o6bobobob2o12b3o2bo$13b2o3bob2o4b
2o3bo3b2obobo3bo14bo$12bo3bo4bobo7bo5b3o2bo13bo$14bo2bo11b3o5bo2b4o$
18bob2o2b2obo3bobobob2ob2obo$18b4o5bo6b2o3bo$24b3o2b4ob2o3b3obo$24b2o
3b2o7bo3bo$18b2o4bobo2bobo3b2o3bob2o$22b2o9b2ob2o2bo3bo$18b3o4b2obobob
3o2bo2b2o2bo$16bob4ob3o4b2o4bob2obo$14b2o4bo2b2o2b3o2bo3b2o2bo2bo$15bo
2b2ob3obo3bobob3o2b2ob2o$18b2obob3ob8obob2obobo!
I don't know if this is good, but I did have this extended a few hundred generations longer by slightly tweaking the inner contents for fun.

Code: Select all

x = 66, y = 66, rule = B3/S23
15b2o28bo$15b2o5b2o3b2ob2o12b3o$22b2o4bob2o10b3ob2o$28bo14b2ob3o$18b2o
9b3o8b2obo2b3o8b2o5b2o$18b2o11bo8b3o14b2o5b2o$38bo3bo$15b2o21bo2bo18b
2o$7bo7b2o14bo7bobo18b2o$7b3o21b3o6bo5b2o$10bo23bo12bo$9b2o3bo16b2obo
9b3o$14bobo14bobo3b2o4bo$13bobo21b2o4b4o$15bo30bo$10bo22b2o6b3o$11b2o
20b2o6bo2bo$9bobo5b2o3b2o2b2o14b2o$8b2o7b2o2bo2bo2bo18bo$8b2o11bob2ob
o18bobo$7b2o5bo7bo3b2o10bo5bobo$6b3o4bobob2obobob2o6b2o3bobo5bo15b2o$
5bobo5bobobob2ob2obo6bobo3bo14b2o6bobo$2bo3bo7bo18b2o18b2o3bo3bobo$bo
bo53bobo3bo$2b2o54bo$37b2o9bo$23b2o12bobo6b3o$23b2o13b2o5bo17b2o$45b2o
16b2o$33b2o$3b2o21b2o4bobo17b2obo$b6o19b2o4b2o18bob2o$o2b5o8b2o32bobo
$o6b2o8bo11b2o18bobo2b2o$b2o4b2o8bobo8bobo19bo4bo$2b3o2b2o9b2o3bo4b2o
4bo19bo$7b2o13bobo8bobo18b2o$4bo3bo14bo10bo14bob2obo$4b2obo12bo10bo8b
2o3b2o2b2obo2bo$5bobo2b2o7bobo8bobo9b3o7bob2o$11b2o7bo10bo9bo3bo3b2ob
obo4b2o$13bo21b2o5bobo4bobo2bo4bobo$13b2o13b2o5bo7bo6bo3b2o5bo$14bo13b
2o7bo21bob2o$36b2o20bobo2bo$16b5o14bo23bo2b2o$14b2ob5o14bobo3b2o$21b2o
14b2o3b2o$14b2o5b2o$15b2obo2b3o8b2o$18bo2b3o7bobo3b2o$18b2o2bo9bo4b2o
$19bo2bo4bo2b2o$20b2o5bo$28bo$24bobo3b2obo$24b2o5bo2bo$25bo6b2o$39bo$
27bobo4b2o2bo$27b2o5b2o2b3o$28bo$31bobo$31b2o$32bo!
Also, I know that the Vacuum p46 double-barred glider gun can perform a block pulling reaction similar to sawmills. Can this be useful?

Code: Select all

x = 49, y = 43, rule = B3/S23
b2o23b2o$b2o23bo$24bobo$15b2o7b2o$2o13bobo$2o13bob2o$16b2o$16bo$44b2o
$16bo27b2o$16b2o$2o13bob2o13bo3bo$2o13bobo13bo5bo7b2o$15b2o14bo13b2o$
31b2o3bo$b2o30b3o$b2o$33b3o$31b2o3bo$31bo13b2o$31bo5bo7b2o$32bo3bo2$44b
2o$44b2o5$37b2o$37bobo7b2o$39bo7b2o$37b3o$22bobo$21b3o$21b3o$21bo15b3o
$25bobo11bo$21b2o4bo9bobo$16b2o4bo3b2o9b2o$15bobo6bo$15bo$14b2o!
Knowledge can only be gained when exploring the unknown.
Disaster16439
Posts: 338
Joined: June 30th, 2023, 9:17 am
Location: Teyvat

Re: (Engineered) diehards

Post by Disaster16439 »

Right now, the NW section of the 10k cell diehard is wasted mostly on glider OTTs to delay a tiny bit of the time. Could we put a crabstrecher, add some delay mechanism, then have it burn a fuse, then make a glider which comes back and triggers the start. Or, maybe we can add a mechanism for the fuse-stopping before crabstretcher and reactivating?

An unrelated sidenote, has someone made an exact recursive recursive recursive formula for the current diehard length?

Code: Select all

x=0,y=0,rule=B34q/S23-k
14b3o$13bo3bo$13b2ob2o9$15bo$15bo$b2o12bo12b2o$obo25bobo$o10b3o3b3o10b
o$obo25bobo$b2o12bo12b2o$15bo$15bo9$13b2ob2o$13bo3bo$14b3o!
[[ LOOP 200 THEME POISON AUTOSTART T 0 PAUSE 0.3 ]]
I’m sandless :D
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Pavgran
Posts: 236
Joined: June 12th, 2019, 12:14 pm

Re: (Engineered) diehards

Post by Pavgran »

Disaster16439 wrote: August 17th, 2026, 7:27 pm Right now, the NW section of the 10k cell diehard is wasted mostly on glider OTTs to delay a tiny bit of the time. Could we put a crabstrecher, add some delay mechanism, then have it burn a fuse, then make a glider which comes back and triggers the start. Or, maybe we can add a mechanism for the fuse-stopping before crabstretcher and reactivating?
Potentially, we can do that. There are some drafts early in the thread.
Disaster16439 wrote: August 17th, 2026, 7:27 pm An unrelated sidenote, has someone made an exact recursive recursive recursive formula for the current diehard length?
So, reusing some parameters and formulas from my post:

Pattern with the help of which I measured all the parameters:

Code: Select all

x = 1565, y = 510, rule = LifeSuper
168.S$166.S.S$167.2S91.2M158.2M158.2M158.2M158.2M158.2M158.2M158.2M
158.2M$180.2S78.2M158.2M158.2M158.2M158.2M158.2M158.2M158.2M158.2M$
163.2S11.2S.S2.S33.2M20.2M27.O108.2M20.2M27.O108.2M20.2M27.O108.2M20.
2M27.O108.2M20.2M27.O108.2M20.2M27.O108.2M20.2M27.O108.2M20.2M27.O
108.2M20.2M27.O$.S.2S2.3S6.S.5S3.4S6.2O7.2O6.M.4M7.M9.M.2MQ2.Q4.Q7.M.
6M2.2O4.2O48.S2.S3.3S4.2S.2S.S13.2O7.2O10.M20.M27.O.O3.2O30.V.3V.3V
43.2O7.2O10.M20.M27.O.O3.2O82.2O7.2O10.M20.M27.O.O3.2O30.V.3V.3V43.2O
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O13.3O8.M4.M14.2Q.Q13.2M8.O$2.3S.S3.S3.2S.3S.S2.2S.S2.3S3.2O3.2Q8.2O
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18.U.U3.2U2.U42.2M$2W9.3W28.M.M9.S4.U.2U.U.U5.U.U.U2.2M.M2.2M78.2W35.
M.5M5.S7.2U6.2U93.2W35.M.5M13.2U6.2U93.2W35.M.5M13.2U6.2U93.2W35.M.5M
13.2U6.2U130.M.5M116.2W13.2H143.2W35.M.5M116.2W13.2H143.2W35.M.5M13.
2U6.2U$.W3.3W5.W28.2M5.M10.U2.U2.2U3.U3.2U.4M21.2M5.M.M53.2W33.2M5.M
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2M52.2W33.2M5.M10.2H42.2M7.2M52.2W12.2H3.H77.2M7.2M52.2W33.2M5.M22.2U
30.2M7.2M$4.W36.2M3.M.2M9.2U2.3U2.U4.U3.UM.2M2.M5.M2.M9.2M4.M2.M.2M
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87.2M3.M2.M53.2M7.2M149.2M7.2M87.2M3.M2.M8.H2.H41.2M7.2M49.H99.2M7.2M
87.2M3.M2.M15.U6.2U2.U.U24.2M7.2M$40.M3.M4.M.M8.3U.U4.3U2.2U5.2M3.5M.
M14.M2.M98.M15.U.U4.2U2.2U131.M15.U.U4.2U2.2U131.M15.U.U4.2U2.2U4.2M
125.M8.H.H4.U.U4.2U2.2U131.M192.2M125.M8.H.H101.H.H77.2M125.M15.U.U4.
2U2.2U$42.M2.M13.U3.U2.2U4.U.2U7.2M2.M5.M6.2M5.M.3M3.M87.2M.M2.M15.2U
5.U4.U22.2M5.2M94.2M.M2.M15.2U5.U4.U22.2M5.2M94.2M.M2.M15.2U5.U4.U3.M
.M16.2M5.2M94.2M.M2.M9.H5.2U5.U4.U22.2M5.2M94.2M.M2.M50.2M5.2M132.M.M
16.2M5.2M94.2M.M2.M9.H40.2M5.2M52.H2.H76.M.M16.2M5.2M94.2M.M2.M15.2U
5.U4.U22.2M5.2M$46.M.2M14.U.2U.U.3U2.U3.M5.M2.2M9.2M6.M.3M.2M90.M2.M
19.U30.2M5.2M6.2M89.M2.M19.U30.2M5.2M6.2M89.M2.M19.U13.M16.2M5.2M6.2M
84.2H3.M2.M19.U30.2M5.2M6.2M89.M2.M50.2M5.2M6.2M58.2pA66.M16.2M5.2M6.
2M84.2H3.M2.M50.2M5.2M6.2M45.2H79.M16.2M5.2M6.2M89.M2.M19.U30.2M5.2M
6.2M$46.4M10.3U3.U.4U3.U3.M.M5.3M.M2.M13.M.2M.M.M91.2M20.U.U43.2M90.
2M20.U.U43.2M90.2M20.U.U43.2M84.2H4.2M20.U.U43.2M90.2M66.2M58.2pA98.
2M84.2H4.2M66.2M158.2M90.2M20.U.U43.2M$207.2M20.2U136.2M20.2U136.2M
20.2U136.2M20.2U136.2M318.2M318.2M20.2U2$691.2H278.2pA198.2H$257.2M
158.2M158.2M111.H2.H43.2M158.2M72.2pA84.2M111.H2.H43.2M56.H101.2M158.
2M$257.M.M157.M.M157.M.M110.H.H44.M.M157.M.M157.M.M110.H.H44.M.M54.H.
H100.M.M157.M.M$259.M159.M159.M111.H47.M159.M159.M111.H47.M53.H2.H
102.M159.M$259.2M158.2M158.2M92.2H64.2M158.2M66.2pA90.2M92.2H64.2M53.
2H11.2H90.2M158.2M$673.2H292.2pA184.2H132.2H3$683.2H278.2pA198.2H$
682.H2.H277.2pA197.H2.H101.H$682.H.H477.H.H101.H.H$683.H479.H101.H2.H
$665.2H292.2pA184.2H119.2H11.2H$665.2H292.2pA184.2H132.2H3$675.2H278.
2pA198.2H$674.H2.H277.2pA197.H2.H101.H$674.H.H477.H.H101.H.H$675.H
479.H101.H2.H$657.2H292.2pA184.2H119.2H11.2H$657.2H292.2pA184.2H132.
2H3$532.2M133.2H278.2pA198.2H$531.M.M132.H2.H277.2pA197.H2.H101.H$
533.M132.H.H477.H.H101.H.H$667.H479.H101.H2.H$943.2pA305.2H11.2H$943.
2pA318.2H3$939.2pA$939.2pA302.H$1242.H.H$1241.H2.H$935.2pA305.2H11.2H
$935.2pA318.2H3$931.2pA$931.2pA302.H$1234.H.H$1233.H2.H$927.2pA305.2H
11.2H$927.2pA318.2H3$923.2pA$923.2pA3$919.2pA318.2H$919.2pA318.2H$
502.2M$501.M.M$503.M28$472.2M$471.M.M$473.M28$442.2M$441.M.M$443.M28$
412.2M$411.M.M$413.M28$382.2M$381.M.M$383.M28$352.2M$351.M.M$353.M28$
322.2M$321.M.M$323.M28$292.2M$291.M.M$293.M28$262.2M$261.M.M$263.M28$
232.2M$231.M.M$233.M28$202.2M$201.M.M$203.M28$172.2M$171.M.M$173.M28$
142.2M$141.M.M$143.M!
Exact formulas with parameters:

Code: Select all

a=152 (first sawtooth block offset)
b=169 (initial delay in multiples of 120)

Formula for first sawtooth timings before wick triggering:
y_n = (a+120b+5)*(121^(n+1)-1)+120(b-4)

c=21 (first sawtooth block-eating offset)
d = y_15/24+5 (number of first sawtooth loaves)

Formula for first sawtooth timings during loaf absorbtion:
t_n = (a-c+16d+3*120+9+8/120)*(121^n-1)-8n+24d+3*120

Formula for first sawtooth timings after loaf absorbtion:
z_n = (a+5+t_d)*(121^(n+1)-1)+t_d-120*4

e = 152 (second sawtooth block offset)

s = [32, 28, 30, 23, 24, 19, 20, 15, 16, 11, 12, 7, 8, 3] (block-eating offsets for second sawtooth for sacrifitial still lives)
Formulas for second sawtooth timings before wick triggering:
u_0 = 2
u_(i+1) = z_(u_i)+u_i+1+e-s[i]

h = 45 (bloack-eating offset for second sawtooth)
j = z_(u_14)/24+7 (number of second sawtooth loaves)

Formulas for second sawtooth timings during loaf absorbtion:
v_0 = u_14
v_(i+1) = z_(v_i)+v_i+1+e-h-8(j-i-1)

f = 7692 (death timing offset)

Final formula:
v = z_(v_j)+v_j+1+e
Lifespan = 4*z_v+f
Exact formulas with (most of) substitutions done:

Code: Select all

d=1797926063936542177945655789595339790
t_d = (16*d+500)*121^d-140+8/120*(121^d-1)
z_n = (t_d+157)*121^(n+1)-637
u_0 = 2
u_1 = z_(u_0)+u_0+121
u_2 = z_(u_1)+u_1+125
u_3 = z_(u_2)+u_2+123
u_4 = z_(u_3)+u_3+130
u_5 = z_(u_4)+u_4+129
u_6 = z_(u_5)+u_5+134
u_7 = z_(u_6)+u_6+133
u_8 = z_(u_7)+u_7+138
u_9 = z_(u_8)+u_8+137
u_10 = z_(u_9)+u_9+142
u_11 = z_(u_10)+u_10+141
u_12 = z_(u_11)+u_11+146
u_13 = z_(u_12)+u_12+145
u_14 = z_(u_13)+u_13+150

j = z_(u_14)/24+7
v_0 = u_14
v_(i+1) = z_(v_i)+v_i+116-8j+8i
v = v_(j+1)+37

Lifespan = 4*z_v+7692
Some approximations:

Code: Select all

d > 121^17.4 (that's the number of first sawtooth loaves)
t_d > 121^121^17.4
z_n > 121^(n+121^17.4)
u_1 > 121^121^17.4
u_2 > 121^121^121^17.4
...
v_0 = u_14 > 121^121^121^121^121^121^121^121^121^121^121^121^121^121^121^17.4 > 121^^15
j > 121^121^121^121^121^121^121^121^121^121^121^121^121^121^121^121^17.4 > 17^^17 > 121^^16 (that's the number of second sawtooth loaves)
v_1 > 121^^16
v_2 > 121^^17
...
v > v_(j+1) > 121^^(17^^17) > 17^^^3
Lifespan > 17^^^3
User avatar
Pavgran
Posts: 236
Joined: June 12th, 2019, 12:14 pm

Re: (Engineered) diehards

Post by Pavgran »

Also, adopting linear approximation for real heights, that is:
a^^x = a^(a^^(x-1)) for x >= 1,
a^^x = a^x for 0 <= x < 1,
we can make some more precise bounds:

Code: Select all

d > 121^17.406868871 (first sawtooth loaves)
v_0 = u_14 > 121^^15.595702598
j > 121^^16.595702598 (second sawtooth loaves)
Lifespan > 121^^121^^16.595702598
Using similar approximation for tetration itself (I doubt it behaves nicely from mathematical point of view), that is:
a^^^x = a^^(a^^^(x-1)) for x >= 1
a^^^x = a^^x = a^x for 0 <= x < 1,
we can calculate the following:

Code: Select all

Lifespan > 121^^121^^121^^0.585751974 = 121^^^2.585751974
Varying the base instead, we can say:

Code: Select all

Lifespan > 121^^121^^16.595702598 > 121^^17.062596946^^17.062596946 > 17.062596946^^^3
User avatar
Pavgran
Posts: 236
Joined: June 12th, 2019, 12:14 pm

Re: (Engineered) diehards

Post by Pavgran »

So, about that upper-left corner.

If we modify self-destruction procedure, we can eat more blocks from the second sawtooth with this contraption:

Code: Select all

x = 207, y = 170, rule = LifeSuper
182.2M$182.2M$138.2M20.2M27.O$118.2O7.2O10.M20.M27.O.O3.2O$118.O2.2O.
O.O2.O.O7.M.M6.M.M7.M.M18.2M7.O2.O.O.O$119.2O2.2O.2O2.2O8.2M4.M3.M7.
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22.O7.2M$124.2Q22.M.M38.MO$157.2O3.5Q$119.2M25.M7.2O2.O3.Q3.Q27.2M$
119.2M5.O20.2M4.O.O.O7.Q28.2M$126.2O18.2M5.O3.2O6.2Q$126.2O26.3O2.O
37.2M$119.M7.O28.O.O21.2M15.2M7.M$118.3M36.O.3O21.M20.3M$117.M3.M37.O
2.O17.M2.M19.M$119.M39.O.O19.2M20.2M$116.M5.M37.O20.2M$116.M5.M57.M2.
M$85.2S30.M3.M58.M$85.2S31.3M41.M18.3M$161.M9.2M$137.2Q22.3M7.2M23.2M
$88.2S47.2Q58.2M$88.2S60.2M22.2M20.M$150.M23.2M$85.2S53.2M6.M.M40.3M$
77.S7.2S51.M2.M6.2M41.4M$77.3S36.2M11.2M6.M33.2M17.M2.M.2M$80.S36.M
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3.2Q$111.2S5.2W64.Q.Q3.Q.Q$96.2S7.2W4.S6.2W12.M43.M8.Q5.Q.Q$96.2S7.2W
5.3S4.W11.M43.M6.3Q8.Q2.2Q$114.S9.M.M4.3M41.M6.Q10.Q.Q.Q$108.2W14.2M
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98.W.W4.W.2W77.2M$97.2W.2W4.W2.W76.2M$98.W3.W4.2W$91.W6.W3.W40.M$90.W
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W14.2M21.pAM27.pA$70.W.W37.pA.pA25.pA19.2pA$69.W.W38.pA27.2pA18.pA5.
2pA$68.W.W13.2M23.2pA4.pAM19.2pA3.pA14.pA.pA5.2pA$67.W.W14.2M30.pA18.
pA2.4pA14.2pA$66.W.W44.3pA19.2pA.pA6.2pA$65.W.W45.pA22.pA.pA.2pA3.2pA
20.2pA$64.W.W13.2M54.pA.pA.2pA25.2pA$63.W.W14.2M53.2pA.pA$62.W.W73.pA
25.2pA$61.W.W74.pA.pA23.2pA$60.W.W13.2M61.2pA$59.W.W14.2M68.2pA$58.W.
W85.pA$57.W.W83.2pA.pA3.2pA$56.W.W13.2M67.pA2.pA.2pA2.2pA$55.W.W14.2M
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3pA$51.W.W14.2M79.2pA12.2pA$50.W.W110.pA2.3pA$49.W.W$48.W.W13.2M97.pA
$47.W.W14.2M97.pA3.2pA13.2pA$46.W.W115.pA2.pA14.pA$45.W.W116.pA.pA8.
2pA6.3pA$44.W.W13.2M113.2pA8.pA$43.W.W14.2M$42.W.W127.2pA$41.W.W128.
2pA$40.W.W13.2M$39.W.W14.2M$38.W.W134.2pA$37.W.W135.2pA$36.W.W13.2M$
35.W.W14.2M$34.W.W$33.W.W$32.W.W13.2M$31.W.W14.2M$30.W.W$29.W.W$28.W.
W13.2M$27.W.W14.2M$26.W.W$25.W.W$24.W.W13.2M$23.W.W14.2M$22.W.W$21.W.
W$20.W.W13.2M$19.W.W14.2M$18.W.W$17.W.W$16.W.W13.2M$15.W.W14.2M$14.W.
W$13.W.W$12.W.W$11.W.W$10.W.W$9.W.W$8.W.W$7.W.W$6.W.W$5.W.W$4.W.W$3.W
.W$2.W.W$.W.W$W.W$2W!
Here, red cells emulate the first sawtooth, so that the second sawtooth fires every 4 cycles.
After eating a few blocks with previous mechanisms, the second sawtooth eventually opens up a new glider gun, which helps eat even more blocks.
I found a reaction that cleanly eats a block and fires backwards glider. It can be eaten a few times, and then it cleanly destroys the new glider gun, clearing the way for the last block-eating reaction that starts the second fuse.

The space for potential reactions is quite big, and it's possible that we can find something even better than this (I've seen a few crystal-growing reactions, some herschel-producing reactions, some reactions firing gliders in different directions).

But I had to get rid of the SL that is involved in self-destruction, placing an essential eater in its place. So, if we go that road, another cleanup problem would have to be solved.
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