ConwayLife.com

Posted: **January 3rd, 2022, 6:27 pm**

Wyirm wrote: January 3rd, 2022, 3:00 pm Hypothetically if one were to have an stable conduit with a 100% optimized catalyst that has an exposed area 10 cells long, would using a griddle to optimize population make the conduit a periodic one? even if the periodicity of the griddle itself has no impact on how the conduit functions would it still be a stable conduit?
tl;dr [would a periodic stabalization of a catalyst or conduit that doesn't impact the function of the mechanism still count as stable?]
for example: ... the griddle has less population while still leaving the same bounding box, thus making it better than the stable option.

For conduit or similar construction purposes, it wouldn't make any difference. For the purpose of automatic synthesis/destruction by (say) an automated constructor like Gemini, it could make a small difference if they had an odd period, as constructor arms might need to alter the recipe slightly for purposes of automatic destruction, and/or construction; e.g. for synthesis, it usually wouldn't matter, but for destruction, you would need to find a glider and/or suite of gliders that would destroy the resulting object, regardless of which phase the griddle was in.

For purposes of enumeration, (e.g. the smallest true period 543 gun), they would not be suitable for odd periods. In any case, as has already been pointed out, this particular case can be avoided by just using two blocks, but it can still matter in other some other situations (e.g. dvgrn's example of two nearby eaters that can only work together as a test tube baby). I have also seen some examples posted on these forums of higher period oscillators whose stators have been reduced in size and/or population by replacing them with small oscillators (like caterers) or similar oscillator fragments.

Posted: **January 4th, 2022, 2:47 pm**

What is a pseudo-spaceship? Only mention I can find is on wiki spaceship flotilla page.

Posted: **January 4th, 2022, 2:57 pm**

Book wrote: January 4th, 2022, 2:47 pm What is a pseudo-spaceship? Only mention I can find is on wiki spaceship flotilla page.

Two separate spaceships that touch but don't interact, the same way that a pseudo-still life does.

Posted: **January 4th, 2022, 8:19 pm**

Book wrote: January 4th, 2022, 2:47 pmWhat is a pseudo-spaceship? Only mention I can find is on wiki spaceship flotilla page.

Definition of an object:
1) A cluster of adjacent living cells (e.g. block, tub, beacon, glider)
2) Two objects close to each other in such a way that they suppress one or more births if they are separated (e.g. aircraft carrier)
3) Two periodic objects that interact in one of the above ways in at least one of their phases (e.g. beacon, 2 pentadecathlons shuttling a glider)

Definition of a pseudo-object:
2 or more objects or pseudo-objects that are close to each other in such a way that adjacent empty cells don't change their behaviors, but the reason births don't form is due to over-population rather than under-population - and there is at least one way that the clusters can be separated into disjoint sets that operate the same way (e.g. bi-block separates into two blocks). In most cases, this can be done into two sets, but there have been examples found that require 3 or even 4 sets (which is provably a maximum, given the 4-color map theorem). (Objects are technically can also fit this definition, but they are generally classed separately, in the same way that still-lifes are technically trivial period-1 oscillators, but aren't generally counted as such.)

Definition of a quasi-obuject:
2 or more objects, pseudo-objects, or pseudo-objects that are close to each other in such a way that they share adjacent empty cells (e.g. two adjacent tubs). (Again, objects and pseudo-objects can also fit this definition, but are generally classed separately).

Still-lifes are non-moving objects with a period of 1. Oscillators are non-moving objects with a period greater than 1. Spaceships are moving periodic objects.

Pseudo-still-lifes, pseudo-oscillators, and pseudo-spaceships are pseudo-objects similar to the above (e.g. bi-block, block on beacon, two adjacent LWSS).

Quasi-still-lifes, quasi-oscillators, and quasi-spaceships are quasi-objects similar to the above (e.g. tub near tub, tub near beacon, two nearby gliders).

Posted: **January 4th, 2022, 8:22 pm**

mniemiec wrote: January 4th, 2022, 8:19 pm ...quasi-oscillators ... tub near beacon ...

Am I missing something, or is this impossible?

Posted: **January 4th, 2022, 8:30 pm**

mniemiec wrote: January 4th, 2022, 8:19 pm...quasi-oscillators ... tub near beacon ...

hotdogPi wrote: January 4th, 2022, 8:22 pmAm I missing something, or is this impossible?

One corner of the tub is two squares diagonally removed from the corner of a beacon. They share a dead cell between them, which now has 2 neighbors instead of 1 (but still not enough to cause a birth).

Posted: **January 4th, 2022, 9:33 pm**

mniemiec wrote: January 4th, 2022, 8:19 pm
Book wrote: January 4th, 2022, 2:47 pmWhat is a pseudo-spaceship? Only mention I can find is on wiki spaceship flotilla page.
Definition of an object:
1) A cluster of adjacent living cells (e.g. block, tub, beacon, glider)
2) Two objects close to each other in such a way that they suppress one or more births if they are separated (e.g. aircraft carrier)
3) Two periodic objects that interact in one of the above ways in at least one of their phases (e.g. beacon, 2 pentadecathlons shuttling a glider)

Definition of a pseudo-object:
2 or more objects or pseudo-objects that are close to each other in such a way that adjacent empty cells don't change their behaviors, but the reason births don't form is due to over-population rather than under-population - and there is at least one way that the clusters can be separated into disjoint sets that operate the same way (e.g. bi-block separates into two blocks). In most cases, this can be done into two sets, but there have been examples found that require 3 or even 4 sets (which is provably a maximum, given the 4-color map theorem). (Objects are technically can also fit this definition, but they are generally classed separately, in the same way that still-lifes are technically trivial period-1 oscillators, but aren't generally counted as such.)

Definition of a quasi-obuject:
2 or more objects, pseudo-objects, or pseudo-objects that are close to each other in such a way that they share adjacent empty cells (e.g. two adjacent tubs). (Again, objects and pseudo-objects can also fit this definition, but are generally classed separately).

Still-lifes are non-moving objects with a period of 1. Oscillators are non-moving objects with a period greater than 1. Spaceships are moving periodic objects.

Pseudo-still-lifes, pseudo-oscillators, and pseudo-spaceships are pseudo-objects similar to the above (e.g. bi-block, block on beacon, two adjacent LWSS).

Quasi-still-lifes, quasi-oscillators, and quasi-spaceships are quasi-objects similar to the above (e.g. tub near tub, tub near beacon, two nearby gliders).

Good stuff! Mind if I make this into a wiki article?

Posted: **January 5th, 2022, 7:17 am**

Book wrote: January 4th, 2022, 9:33 pmGood stuff! Mind if I make this into a wiki article?

Thanks! Sure. Feel free!

Posted: **January 6th, 2022, 11:24 am**

mniemiec wrote: January 5th, 2022, 7:17 am
Book wrote: January 4th, 2022, 9:33 pmGood stuff! Mind if I make this into a wiki article?
Thanks! Sure. Feel free!

Is it worth shoehorning guns and puffers into this framework? For instance, a gun is an oscillator if you extend its glider stream infinitely. Likewise a puffer or rake is an infinite spaceship. The requirement is that the same (infinite) cell configuration repeats up to translation after a fixed number of generations.

Posted: **January 6th, 2022, 11:27 am**

is there a script that can make a nonogram from a life pattern?

Posted: **January 6th, 2022, 7:49 pm**

pcallahan wrote: January 6th, 2022, 11:24 am Is it worth shoehorning guns and puffers into this framework? For instance, a gun is an oscillator if you extend its glider stream infinitely. Likewise a puffer or rake is an infinite spaceship. The requirement is that the same (infinite) cell configuration repeats up to translation after a fixed number of generations.

Yes, of course. Guns, puffers, rakes, breeders, universal constructors, etc. are all typically objects, in the sense that the parts of them all interact at some point or other. I's of course theoretically possible to create pseudo- and quasi-object versions of those (e.g. a Gosper gun with a bi-block at one end), but there's usually little reason to do so.

Posted: **January 6th, 2022, 9:12 pm**

i need a G to loaf factory where the glider comes in from a different direction from the loaf and the loaf's diagonal line faces outward

Posted: **January 6th, 2022, 10:22 pm**

LLAMASKYWALKER wrote: January 6th, 2022, 9:12 pm i need a G to loaf factory where the glider comes in from a different direction from the loaf and the loaf's diagonal line faces outward

There just aren't a lot of elementary X-to-loaf factories known. If you don't mind a complex engineered one made by colliding gliders, then it would be best to post a pattern that clearly shows the exact constraints you're working with.

Posted: **January 7th, 2022, 1:39 am**

i am trying to make this reaction into an oscilliator:

Code: Select all

x = 6, y = 5, rule = B3/S23
4b2o$bo2b2o$obo$o2bo$b2o!

Posted: **January 7th, 2022, 10:36 am**

LLAMASKYWALKER wrote: January 7th, 2022, 1:39 am i am trying to make this reaction into an oscilliator...

Yikes, that could actually be pretty tricky. You have to keep building new loaves on opposite sides of the moving block, essentially... but the loaf is so close to the block that it basically has to pop into existence all at once.

Now, it just so happens that you get the same final result by just attempting a standard two-glider loaf construction at that location:

Code: Select all

x = 42, y = 14, rule = LifeHistory
10.A29.D$9.A2B27.D2B$8.B3A26.B3D$7.4B26.4B$6.4B26.4B$4.5B25.5B$4.4B
26.4B$4.2B2DB25.2B2CB$4.BD2BD25.BC2BC$3.2BDBD25.2BCBC$2.4BD25.4BC$.2A
2B3.2A21.2D2B3.2A$ABAB4.2A20.DBDB4.2A$.BA28.BD!

... but it's not really the same thing, so I don't know if you'd be happy with an oscillator built on that reaction.

If that is what you want, then you could hook up edge-shooting guns of whatever period you like, to the gliders here:

Code: Select all

x = 17, y = 19, rule = B3/S23
6bobo7bo$6b2o6b2o$7bo7b2o4$2b2o$3b2o$2bo4b2o$7b2o7$bo$b2o$obo!

If not, then try searching for a loaf on Mark Niemiec's site -- there are ways to search by both RLE ("Image") and by name ("Simple") -- and follow the second "Loaf; Burloaf" link to see if any of the recipes listed there can create an actual loaf right next to the block like that.

Posted: **January 7th, 2022, 11:24 am**

dvgrn wrote: January 7th, 2022, 10:36 am If that is what you want, then you could hook up edge-shooting guns of whatever period you like, to the gliders here:
Code: Select all
x = 17, y = 19, rule = B3/S23
6bobo7bo$6b2o6b2o$7bo7b2o4$2b2o$3b2o$2bo4b2o$7b2o7$bo$b2o$obo!

actually, that would work perfectly fine!

Posted: **January 7th, 2022, 12:33 pm**

LLAMASKYWALKER wrote: January 7th, 2022, 11:24 am
dvgrn wrote: January 7th, 2022, 10:36 am If that is what you want, then you could hook up edge-shooting guns of whatever period you like, to the gliders here:
Code: Select all
x = 17, y = 19, rule = B3/S23
6bobo7bo$6b2o6b2o$7bo7b2o4$2b2o$3b2o$2bo4b2o$7b2o7$bo$b2o$obo!
actually, that would work perfectly fine!

LLAMASKYWALKER wrote: block "juggler":

Code: Select all

x = 145, y = 149, rule = B3/S23
96b2o5b2o$96b2o5b2o11$97bo5bo$96bobo3bobo$95bo3bobo3bo$95bo3bobo3bo$95b
o9bo2$96b2o5b2o4$98bo3bo$96b2o$95bo3bobo3b2o$95bo3bobo$96b3o$103bo2bo
$103b2o2$117bo2bo$73b2o14b3o28bo7b3o$73b2o12bo3bo24bo9bo4bo11b2o$86bo
4bo24b2o8bo5bo10b2o$86bo3bo31bo8bo$119b2o8b2o$86bo3bo$86bo4bo27b2o8b2o
$73b2o12bo3bo26bo3bo8bo$73b2o14b3o26bo2bo4bo5bo10b2o$118bo2bo4bo4bo11b
2o$119b2o7b3o3$90bo$89bo8bo6b3o3b3o$89b3o6bobo4bo2bobo2bo$98b2o5bo7bo
2$106bo5bo$107b2ob2o6$78bo8bo$78bobo5bo$78b2o6b3o4$105b2o5b2o$105b2o5b
2o5$75bo$69bo5bobo$68bobo4b2o$71bo$69b2o$70b2o2$31b2o5b2o$31b2o5b2o3$
66b3o$56b3o9bo$58bo8bo$57bo6$33b2ob2o$32bo5bo$55b2o$31bo7bo5b2o7bobo$
31bo2bobo2bo4bobo9bo$31b3o3b3o6bo4$14b3o7b2o$2o11bo4bo4bo2bo$2o10bo5b
o4bo2bo$13bo8bo3bo$14b2o8b2o$43b3o$14b2o8b2o19bo$13bo8bo21bo$2o10bo5b
o8b2o$2o11bo4bo9bo$14b3o7bo$24bo2bo$43b3o14b2o$43bo3bo12b2o$43bo4bo$44b
o3bo2$44bo3bo$43bo4bo$43bo3bo12b2o$43b3o14b2o3$30b2o$28bo2bo$36b3o$33b
obo3bo$28b2o3bobo3bo$37b2o$32bo3bo4$30b2o5b2o2$29bo9bo$29bo3bobo3bo$29b
o3bobo3bo$30bobo3bobo$31bo5bo11$30b2o5b2o$30b2o5b2o!

I deleted the above post from the Oscillator Discussion Thread, because it doesn't really belong there -- very similar to the non-notable fuse issue we were discussing elsewhere. It could fit here perfectly well, since this is where the subject came up, or it could get posted somewhere on the Sandbox.

Here's why it doesn't fit with the Oscillator Discussion Thread. You'll notice that pretty much all the other posts there are oscillators with period-specific mechanisms -- they're each the solution of a fairly tricky problem, and they can't be built just by hooking up some random-period gun to a randomly chosen reaction.

There's literally no end of things like the above block juggler that could be built, with p246 guns instead of p46 guns for example, or with a different block moving reaction -- there are literally millions of them available. But like the pulsar puffer that you put in a spaceships thread recently, it would be impossible to post all of them, and there's nothing particularly interesting about any one of the possibilities compared to any other one... and therefore it's a good idea to resist the impulse to post any of them at all, at least outside of the Sandbox or on active threads.

The "notability" distinction is often hard for newcomers to understand, but there really is a general consensus about it here on the forums. To help make it make more sense, maybe have a look through Gustavo's thread from several years back.

Posted: **January 7th, 2022, 8:47 pm**

mniemiec wrote: January 5th, 2022, 7:17 am
Book wrote: January 4th, 2022, 9:33 pmGood stuff! Mind if I make this into a wiki article?
Thanks! Sure. Feel free!

Done: https://www.conwaylife.com/wiki/Object

Posted: **January 8th, 2022, 12:32 pm**

what is the smallest known p264?

Posted: **January 8th, 2022, 3:56 pm**

C28 wrote: January 8th, 2022, 12:32 pm what is the smallest known p264?

This is the smallest one I could find:

Code: Select all

x = 86, y = 86, rule = B3/S23
29bo$28bobo$29bo3$29bo12bo$28bobo11b3o$19b3o7b2o14bo11bo4b2o$18bo3bo
21b2o10bobo2bobo$17bo3b2o34bo4bo$16bo30bo$16bo2b2obo23bobo$16b2obo3bo
21bo3bo$16bo6bo22bo2bo$16bo5bo23bo2bo18b2o$15bo5bo25b2o15b2obo2bo$14bo
6bo41bobo5b5o$14bo3bob2o41bo3bo5bo2bo$15bob2o2bo41bo3b2o8bo$21bo42bo8b
2o3bo$15b2o3bo44bo2bo5bo3bo$15bo3bo25b2o19b5o5bobo$7b2o7b3o25bo2bo23bo
2bob2o$7bobo22bo11bo2bo24b2o$8bo22b2o11bo3bo$31bobo11bobo$46bo$8bo$7bo
bo38b2o29bo4bo$8bo39bo29bobo2bobo$49b3o26b2o4bo$51bo3$30b2o22bo$30bo
22bo$12b3o13bobo22b3o$11bo3bo8bo3b2o$10bo4bo6b2obo20bobo$11bob2o6bo4bo
17bo2bobo$7b2o3bo8bo3bo$6bobo13b3o19bo6bo$6bo33b2o3bo6bo26b2o$5b2o29b
3o7bo4bo27bo$35bob2o2bo3bo6bo8b3o13bobo$35b2o2b2o4bo5bo8bo3bo8bo3b2o$
37b2o5bo14bo4bo6b2obo$33bo4bo5bo2bobo10bob2o6bo4bo$37bo8bobo7b2o3bo8bo
3bo$46bo8bobo13b3o$55bo$54b2o3$34bo$bo4b2o26b3o$obo2bobo29bo39bo$bo4bo
29b2o38bobo$77bo$39bo$38bobo$37bo3bo35bo$12b2o24bo2bo34bobo$8b2obo2bo
23bo2bo25b3o7b2o$7bobo5b5o19b2o25bo3bo$7bo3bo5bo2bo44bo3b2o$7bo3b2o8bo
42bo$8bo8b2o3bo41bo2b2obo$9bo2bo5bo3bo41b2obo3bo$10b5o5bobo41bo6bo$15b
o2bob2o15b2o25bo5bo$16b2o18bo2bo23bo5bo$36bo2bo22bo6bo$36bo3bo21bo3bob
2o$37bobo23bob2o2bo$38bo30bo$23bo4bo34b2o3bo$22bobo2bobo10b2o21bo3bo$
22b2o4bo11bo14b2o7b3o$41b3o11bobo$43bo12bo3$56bo$55bobo$56bo!

A herschel or snark loop could probably be made smaller.

Posted: **January 8th, 2022, 4:43 pm**

Code: Select all

x = 94, y = 48, rule = B3/S23
70b2o$70bobob2o$72bobo$71bo2bo$64b2ob2obobob2o$65bobo3b2o3bo$65bobo5b
3o$66bob5o$11b3o60b2o$10bo3bo49b7o2b2obo$9b2obobo48bo12bo$9bo4bo49b3ob
4ob3o$7b2ob4ob3o7bo4b2o34b8o8b2o$6b2obo4bo3bo5bobo2bobo49bo2bo$5bo3bob
2obobobo6bo4bo50bobobo$5bobobob2obo3bo63bo2bo$5bo3bo4bob2o12b3o9bo43bo
$6b3ob4ob2o13b3o6bo23b2o18bobo$9bo4bo14bo3bo5bo2bo19bobo5b2o3b5o$9bobo
b2o13b2obobo5bo2bo19b2o5bo2b2obo4b2o$9bo3bo15b2ob2o6bo2bo24b3ob2o13b3o
$bo8b3o18b3o5bo3b2o23bobobo3b2o4b2o$b3o29bo6b2obobo20b2o4b2o3bobobo4bo
3bo$4bo29bo9b2o30b2ob3o4bo3bo$3b2o27b2o9bo24b2o4bob2o2bo$32bobob2o6bo
25b5o3b2o6bo3bo$9b2o22b2o3bo5b3o38bob3obo$7b2o2bo22bo2bo6b2ob2o36bo5bo
$4b2ob2o2bo23bo2bo5bobob2o11bo22b2obobob2o$3b3o2b3o24bo2bo5bo3bo11bobo
20bo2b2ob2o2bo$2bo6bo28bo6b3o12bobo2b5obo11b2o7b2o$3b5o27bo9b3o9b2obo
2bob4obobo$4b4o49b2obo4bo6b2obo$6bo27b2o11bo4bo7bo7bob2ob3o$30b2o6b2o
6bobo2bobo6bobo4bo2bo3bo$5bo23bo10bo5b2o4bo8b2o3bob3o6b2o$4b4o21bobo6b
obo24bobo2bob2ob3obo$4b5o19b2obob4obob2o23bobo2bobo2bobobo$2bo6bo21bob
4obo24b2o2b2o2b2obo4b2o$b3o2b3o19b2obo6bob2o20bo2b2o2bo2bo2b4o2bo$o2b
2ob2o21bobo2b2o2bobo22b2o2b6ob2o4bo$o2b2o24bo2bob2obo2bo25bo10b3o$b2o
27bob2o2b2obo23b3ob2obo3bob2o$29b2ob2o2b2ob2o21bo2bobob2o$7b2o54bo2b3o
2b3o$7bo21b2o2b4o2b2o19b3o3bo4bo$8b3o17bobo2bo2bo2bobo18bo2b3o5b2o$10b
o18bo10bo22bo7bo!

Several LCM examples.

Posted: **January 8th, 2022, 8:53 pm**

Huh, there's nothing in Skopje for p264 yet. Does that mean there's nothing better than the 141-cell universal upper bound?

-- Nope. Wyirm's middle oscillator drops to a population of 136. (The left oscillator is actually p132.)

Code: Select all

x = 30, y = 36, rule = B3/S23
bo4b2o$obo2bobo$bo4bo5$12b2o$8b2obo2bo$7bobo5b5o$7bo3bo5bo2bo$7bo3b2o
8bo$8bo8b2o3bo$9bo2bo5bo3bo$10b5o5bobo$15bo2bob2o$16b2o5$10b2o11bo4bo$
6b2o6b2o6bobo2bobo$5bo10bo5b2o4bo$5bobo6bobo$4b2obob4obob2o$7bob4obo$
4b2obo6bob2o$5bobo2b2o2bobo$5bo2bob2obo2bo$6bob2o2b2obo$5b2ob2o2b2ob2o
2$5b2o2b4o2b2o$4bobo2bo2bo2bobo$5bo10bo!

But 84P264 is lower population, obviously, though not smaller bounding box.

Posted: **January 8th, 2022, 11:08 pm**

What is the definition of "drifter"? I see it commonly used to refer to these eaters/catalysts.

Code: Select all

x = 27, y = 8, rule = B3/S23
2o14b2o$o2bob2o9bo2bob2o$b3obobo9b3obobo$5bobo2bo10bobo$3b3ob4o6b5ob3o
$2bo3bo10bo4bo3bo$2b2o2bobo11bobo2b2o$7b2o11b2o!

Posted: **January 9th, 2022, 8:22 am**

Entity Valkyrie 2 wrote: January 8th, 2022, 11:08 pm What is the definition of "drifter"? I see it commonly used to refer to these eaters/catalysts.
Code: Select all
x = 27, y = 8, rule = B3/S23
2o14b2o$o2bob2o9bo2bob2o$b3obobo9b3obobo$5bobo2bo10bobo$3b3ob4o6b5ob3o
$2bo3bo10bo4bo3bo$2b2o2bobo11bobo2b2o$7b2o11b2o!

Drifter (also called dr) is a program that searches for perturbations in dense still lifes. The main idea is that they recover slowly and usually just a few cells at a time.

Think of how eater 4 works (although that might have been discovered pre-dr). It recovers, but it takes a long time.

The program can also find 2c/3 signal turners (if such things exist), and if it finds an oscillator, it will report that. Here's Merzenich's p18, and see how it's quite similar to a long-recovering eater/catalyst (except it's not exposed), but it just happens to loop by itself.

Code: Select all

x = 17, y = 15, rule = B3/S23
3b2o$4bo$2bobob2o$bobobobo3b2o$bobo8bo$2obo8bob2o$3bo7b2obo$3bob2o7bo$
2obobo5b3ob2o$o2bobobo2bo2bobo$2bo2bob4obo2bo$3b2obo4b2obo$6bo2bo3bo$
6bobob3o$7b2obo!
[[ GPS 6 ]]

Posted: **January 9th, 2022, 10:50 am**

Entity Valkyrie 2 wrote: January 8th, 2022, 11:08 pm What is the definition of "drifter"? I see it commonly used to refer to these eaters/catalysts.
Code: Select all
x = 27, y = 8, rule = B3/S23
2o14b2o$o2bob2o9bo2bob2o$b3obobo9b3obobo$5bobo2bo10bobo$3b3ob4o6b5ob3o
$2bo3bo10bo4bo3bo$2b2o2bobo11bobo2b2o$7b2o11b2o!

Yup, it has been used that way, but as hotDogPi sort of implies, "drifter" as a label for that catalyst is not really a good use of the term.

People using "drifter" to mean the catalyst are just taking a confusing shortcut for saying "drifty eater", or maybe "eater that was found by using the 'drifter' program", or "eater whose active reaction is a drifter-type reaction".

I think a much better word for that catalyst is Hickerson eater, though that term hasn't made it to the LifeWiki or Life Lexicon yet.

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