ConwayLife.com • Thread for basic questions - Page 124

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Re: Thread for basic questions

Posted: December 14th, 2021, 12:29 pm

by affamatodidio

Is there a thread where I could request a rule to be searched with ikpx, ntzfind, qfind, etc? I don't have access to something powerful enough to run those for the time being. (if any of you care to be a saint, I'm looking for other objects in b3-e4w6k/s234q, as it has a c/8 and 3c/6, but not really any other interesting things)

Re: Thread for basic questions

Posted: December 14th, 2021, 12:41 pm

by yujh

affamatodidio wrote: December 14th, 2021, 12:29 pm Is there a thread where I could request a rule to be searched with ikpx, ntzfind, qfind, etc? I don't have access to something powerful enough to run those for the time being. (if any of you care to be a saint, I'm looking for other objects in b3-e4w6k/s234q, as it has a c/8 and 3c/6, but not really any other interesting things)

So how did you get the ships (c/3o and c/4o as you can’t get them manually) in your salad relative before you found salad?

Edit: off-topic content removed. ~Sokwe

Edit3: rule1 okay then.
I’m sorry

Re: Thread for basic questions

Posted: December 14th, 2021, 12:53 pm

by affamatodidio

yujh wrote: December 14th, 2021, 12:41 pm
So how did you get the ships (c/3o and c/4o as you can’t get them manually) in your salad relative before you found salad?

I had actually found the dart c/3o manually, and also found the T-c/4o-tagalong in a random shift-5 soup. Back to the question at hand, how can i search soups without the ability to do it myself?

Re: Thread for basic questions

Posted: December 14th, 2021, 1:27 pm

by jintsi

affamatodidio wrote: December 14th, 2021, 12:53 pm Back to the question at hand, how can i search soups without the ability to do it myself?

With apgsearch - find it on the wiki.

Re: Thread for basic questions

Posted: December 14th, 2021, 7:53 pm

by affamatodidio

The c/8 is natural.

Code: Select all

x = 7, y = 4, rule = B3-e4w6k/S234q
3o2bo$b2o2b2o$5b2o$5bo!

I don't know why you guys are being so rude. I feel as though this is unwarranted. I am simply trying to find a place where I can request an ikpx search or something of that nature; I apologize if this was a useless question. I am just saddened and confused as to why you guys are doing this.

Re: Thread for basic questions

Posted: December 14th, 2021, 8:09 pm

by Sokwe

affamatodidio wrote: December 14th, 2021, 7:53 pm I don't know why you guys are being so rude. I feel as though this is unwarranted. I am simply trying to find a place where I can request an ikpx search or something of that nature.

I don't think anyone's trying to be rude (at least, I hope not). Just in case, I ask everyone involved to review rule 1, and especially subrule 1 (a).

Here is the thread for requesting help searching a rule (Edit: ignore this link, I misread the question. See below.); however, our community is small, so don't be surprised if you don't get any volunteers.

Edit: I misread your question, so I linked to the wrong thread above. GUYTU6J pointed out that this is the thread you want.

Re: Thread for basic questions

Posted: December 16th, 2021, 2:27 pm

by Wyirm

Has a completion been found to this old U-to-B, and if so, can someone show me?

Code: Select all

x = 9, y = 11, rule = B3/S23
6b3o$6b3o$5bobo$5b2o4$2b2o$3bo$3o$o!

Re: Thread for basic questions

Posted: December 16th, 2021, 2:57 pm

by C28

Wyirm wrote: December 16th, 2021, 2:27 pm Has a completion been found to this old U-to-B, and if so, can someone show me?
Code: Select all
x = 9, y = 11, rule = B3/S23
6b3o$6b3o$5bobo$5b2o4$2b2o$3bo$3o$o!

"completion?"

Re: Thread for basic questions

Posted: December 16th, 2021, 3:40 pm

by Wyirm

Completion as in have there been any conduits that can make this reusable, because the b-hep output sequence isn't very compatible, most methods i've tried to extract the sequence either leave the block or dispose of the block in a way that destroys the eater. I am asking if there is a compatible conduit that can be attached that way the u-to-b can be reusable, or "complete". Sorry for not being clear about what I meant by complete.

Re: Thread for basic questions

Posted: December 16th, 2021, 3:52 pm

by C28

Wyirm wrote: December 16th, 2021, 3:40 pm Completion as in have there been any conduits that can make this reusable, because the b-hep output sequence isn't very compatible, most methods i've tried to extract the sequence either leave the block or dispose of the block in a way that destroys the eater. I am asking if there is a compatible conduit that can be attached that way the u-to-b can be reusable, or "complete". Sorry for not being clear about what I meant by complete.

oh in like removing the block that is left by the b and isn't deleted by the eater 1?

Re: Thread for basic questions

Posted: December 16th, 2021, 11:21 pm

by dvgrn

Wyirm wrote: December 16th, 2021, 3:40 pmI am asking if there is a compatible conduit that can be attached that way the u-to-b can be reusable...

Many of the U-to-X components that have been posted don't seem to take into account that the input conduit and the output conduit are likely to overlap. It's a little hard to guess what an eventual edge-shooting X-to-U conduit might look like, but it's obviously going to take up some space... which for some of these speculative conduits means there will be little or no space for a conduit to carry the signal away again, whatever it may have turned into.

It's possible to create an engineered X-to-U, though it will be a bit big and awkward. There aren't any two-glider syntheses of a U-turner, obviously, but there are quite a few three-glider recipes:

Code: Select all

x = 1587, y = 20, rule = B3/S23
8bo70bo74bo70bo75bo77bo70bobo73bo78bo77bo74bo71bo72bo71bo74bo75bo6bo
71bo70bo5b3o71bo74bo68bobo83bo$9bo70bo74bo70b2o74bo77bo70b2o74bo78bo
77bo74bo68b2o74bo71b2o73b2o74bo4bo70bobo71bo4bo74bo74bo68b2o81b2o$7b3o
68b3o72b3o69b2o73b3o75b3o70bo73b3o76b3o75b3o72b3o69b2o71b3o5b2o63b2o
73b2o73b3o4b3o69b2o69b3o5bo71b3o67bo4b3o68bo83b2o$bo824bo83bobo67bo74b
o294b2o74b2o153bo$2bo73bo152bo82bo63bo6bo443bo82bo69b2o73b2o144bo149b
2o72b2o155bo$3o3bo70bo72b2o5bobo69b2o5bo64b2o8b2o63b2o4b2o71bo72bobo
76bobo75bobo72bobo62b3o72b2o77bobo72bobo71b2o72bo74b2o71bo4b3o72b3o
143b2o2b3o$6b2o67b3o2bo70b2o4b2o69bobo4b2o65b2o7bobo61bobo4bobo71bo71b
2o77b2o76b2o73b2o68bo70b2o226b2o69b3o75b2o77bo74bo142bobo$5bobo72bobo
67bo7bo76bobo63bo152b3o72bo70b2o6bo77bo74bo68b2o68bo84b3o140bo148bo78b
o74bo91bo53bo$80b2o519b2o226bobo153bo535b2o$600bo149b2o234bo70b3o142b
2o318b2o$453b2o296b2o304bo145b2o313bo$452b2o296bo307bo143bo316bo$454bo
1062b3o3$676bo$676b2o$526b2o147bobo$527b2o$526bo!

But that requires synchronizing three signals, unless someone can find an H-to-2G that makes two of the gliders at once (unlikely but not impossible -- there are a few pairs of unidirectional gliders in the above recipes).

The other two-signal synchronization that I know about is this one:

Code: Select all

x = 19, y = 18, rule = B3/S23
5$8b2o$7bo2bo$8b2o$13bo$12bo$11b2o$12b2o$13bo!

It could be completed by adding a beehive factory and an X-to-B, which don't even have to be precisely synchronized:

Code: Select all

x = 117, y = 69, rule = LifeHistory
62.A$62.3A$65.A$64.2A8.2A$74.A$72.A.A18.A11.2A$72.2A18.A.A10.2A$58.2A
32.A.A$58.2A26.2A2.3A.2A$86.A2.A$84.A.A3.3A.2A$84.2A6.A.2A$58.2A$58.
2A5$82.2A.D11.2A2.2A$82.2A.3D9.2A2.A.A$56.2A27.D.D13.A10.2A$57.A29.D
23.A2.A$27.2A28.A.A52.2A.A$27.2A12.2A.A.2A10.2A55.A$34.A.2A.A2.A.2A2.
A66.2A$34.2A.A.2A.A4.A.A50.2A$42.5A.A52.A$38.2A.A4.A51.3A$38.2A.A.A3.
A50.A$42.A.A3.A$43.A3.2A4.A$53.3A$56.A$55.2A$59.2A$35.2A11.D10.2A$35.
2A9.3D19.2D$20.2A24.D.D19.3D$19.A2.A23.D21.2D.D$18.A.2A48.2D$18.A$17.
2A$32.2A$32.A$33.3A$35.A10.2A$45.A.A$45.A$44.2A10.2A$57.A$54.3A$54.A
15$3A$2.A$.A!

The clearance isn't very good, though, as you can see. There are other X-to-B conduits and other beehive factories, but they'll all have their own rather similar clearance problems I expect.

Can any of the known U-to-something conduits be attached to an engineered U-turner factory? An attachment to the above circuit would make at least a stop-and-restart component using U-turners -- which wouldn't necessarily be particularly useful, but at least it would be a start.

Re: Thread for basic questions

Posted: December 17th, 2021, 10:00 am

by C28

dvgrn wrote: December 16th, 2021, 11:21 pm The other two-signal synchronization that I know about is this one:
Code: Select all
x = 19, y = 18, rule = B3/S23
5$8b2o$7bo2bo$8b2o$13bo$12bo$11b2o$12b2o$13bo!

there are other still life + methuselah collisions that make U-turners

Code: Select all

x = 8, y = 4, rule = B3/S23
7bo$6b2o$2o3b2o$2o4b2o!

Code: Select all

x = 4, y = 8, rule = B3/S23
2obo$b3o$2bo3$bo$obo$b2o!

Code: Select all

x = 5, y = 8, rule = B3/S23
2bo$3o$obo$o2$3bo$2bobo$2b2o!

if we allow blinkers, 2 more options appear

Code: Select all

x = 5, y = 13, rule = B3/S23
4bo$4bo$4bo8$3o$2bo$3o!

Code: Select all

x = 7, y = 9, rule = B3/S23
4b2o$3bo2bo$3bo2bo$4b3o5$3o!

Re: Thread for basic questions

Posted: December 17th, 2021, 10:55 am

by dvgrn

C28 wrote: December 17th, 2021, 10:00 am there are other still life + methuselah collisions that make U-turners...

Looks good! It would take quite a bit of careful work to go through the still-life factories thread and find the highest-clearance options for each of those still lifes, and see if there's a still-life-plus-signal combination that produces a U-turner with decent clearance, that some known U-to-X might be able to connect to.

There don't seem to be any really amazing edge-shooting U-turner creators in that collection, unfortunately -- the U-turner usually appears more or less on top of the still life, give or take a few cells. That tends to mean that the only U-to-X conduits that will fit are ones that can do all their catalyzing from one side... not sure if there are any of those.

The next stage for developing U-turners as a workable signal type might be to run a long ptbsearch search to see if there are any catalyses with one or two transparent objects, that can "pull" a U-turner through to a new location (and turn it into something that travels better). Or is there some way to get CatForce to report that kind of thing?

Re: Thread for basic questions

Posted: December 17th, 2021, 9:59 pm

by Aleph

Or you could try the Herschel transmitter:

Code: Select all

x = 20, y = 16, rule = LifeHistory
6.2A$5.A.A$3.3A$2.A3.A6.A$2.2A.2A6.3A$13.A.A$15.A3$2A.A$A.2A2$18.2D$16.
2D.D$16.3D$16.2D!

Re: Thread for basic questions

Posted: December 18th, 2021, 3:57 pm

by C28

wwei47 wrote: December 17th, 2021, 9:59 pm Or you could try the Herschel transmitter:
Code: Select all
x = 20, y = 16, rule = LifeHistory
6.2A$5.A.A$3.3A$2.A3.A6.A$2.2A.2A6.3A$13.A.A$15.A3$2A.A$A.2A2$18.2D$16.
2D.D$16.3D$16.2D!

try as i might, i've only managed to connect it to UBx31B, and even then we can't do much with the output.

Code: Select all

x = 24, y = 28, rule = LifeHistory
9.2A$10.A$9.A5.2A$9.2A3.BA.A$10.2B.3B.A$9.6BA.2A$9.6B2A2.A$7.9B2.2A$7.
8B$5.12B$5.13B$4.14B$4.14B$4.10B3CB$4.11BC2B$3.10B3C2B$3.B3D11B$3.B3D
12B$4.BDBD7B.4B$3.3B2D7B2.4B$2.6BD5B4.4B$2.7B4D6.4B$2.8B3D7.4B$3.10B8.
3B$3.10B9.2B$.A9B12.B$A.A.B2.3B$2A!

Re: Thread for basic questions

Posted: December 23rd, 2021, 5:06 pm

by muzik

Do we have a list of when still lifes of each population count were enumerated and by who?

Re: Thread for basic questions

Posted: December 23rd, 2021, 6:49 pm

by dvgrn

muzik wrote: December 23rd, 2021, 5:06 pm Do we have a list of when still lifes of each population count were enumerated and by who?

How about https://conwaylife.com/wiki/Still_life# ... till_lifes ? That seems fairly comprehensive, though dates aren't given for the first few people on the list. Conway's enumeration was 1969-70; Bob Wainwright's, David Buckingham's and Peter Raynham's work was done by 1975 or so; and Mark Niemiec said in 1994 that he had enumerated up to 18 bits "a couple of years ago" (around 1992).

Mark posted the counts up to 21 bits on 28 February 1997, and the counts up to 23 bits on 21 October 1997. The count for 24 bits doesn't seem to show up until 29 March 2004, but was probably calculated years before that -- Mark, and/or the Internet Archive, might remember more.

Re: Thread for basic questions

Posted: December 27th, 2021, 12:52 am

by Laurent Marcoux

Can you get any "boring" interaction between two oscillators with one being period-2 ? Has it been proven that it is possible or impossible ?

Re: Thread for basic questions

Posted: December 28th, 2021, 9:42 am

by muzik

Bringing back an old topic from 2016:

Code: Select all

x = 45, y = 66, rule = B3/S23
9bo$9b2o3$12bo$12b2o2$9bo$9b2o10$10b3o$10bo$9b3o31bo$42bo$42b3o2$20bo$
20b2o2$17bo$3o14b2o$2bo$bo$20bo$20b2o$6bo$6b2o3$9bo$9b2o2$6bo$6b2o10$
7b3o$7bo$6b3o4$17bo$17b2o2$14bo$14b2o3$17bo$17b2o!
[[ THEME Generations ZOOM 2 STEP 30 NOTHROTTLE ]]

Would it even be correct to classify a linear growth like this as SS? Bricklayer is definitely the thing it comes closest to, as we have periodic edges which are slowly lengthened by a reaction that happens at the very end. That being said, it might also qualify as a wickstrwtcher, since the stream of gliders is effectively a periodic wick.

Re: Thread for basic questions

Posted: December 28th, 2021, 1:50 pm

by creeperman7002

Is there an explanation as to why Langton's ant LLLRR stays near the origin and rarely ventures out?

Re: Thread for basic questions

Posted: December 31st, 2021, 3:07 pm

by C28

how many gliders would be needed to synthesize 387P132?

Re: Thread for basic questions

Posted: December 31st, 2021, 3:40 pm

by mniemiec

C28 wrote: December 31st, 2021, 3:07 pm how many gliders would be needed to synthesize 387P132?

I think you're putting the cart before the horse. First, you would need a way to synthesize one of the P6 sparkers. Once that synthesis exists, you would then need be able to synthesize four of them in close proximity with four T-nosed P4s, and also a U-turner in the middle while all of that is going on. This would not be an easy task, by any means.

Re: Thread for basic questions

Posted: January 3rd, 2022, 3:00 pm

by Wyirm

Hypothetically if one were to have an stable conduit with a 100% optimized catalyst that has an exposed area 10 cells long, would using a griddle to optimize population make the conduit a periodic one? even if the periodicity of the griddle itself has no impact on how the conduit functions would it still be a stable conduit?
tl;dr [would a periodic stabalization of a catalyst or conduit that doesn't impact the function of the mechanism still count as stable?]
for example:

Code: Select all

x = 23, y = 9, rule = B3/S23
5b2o11bo$3b3o10bobo$2bo4bo7bo4bo$2b6o7b6o2$10o3b10o$o8bo3bo8bo$3b4o9b
4o$3bo2bo9bo2bo!

the griddle has less population while still leaving the same bounding box, thus making it better than the stable option.

Re: Thread for basic questions

Posted: January 3rd, 2022, 3:09 pm

by hotdogPi

Just use two blocks.

Re: Thread for basic questions

Posted: January 3rd, 2022, 4:29 pm

by dvgrn

Wyirm wrote: January 3rd, 2022, 3:00 pm Hypothetically ... tl;dr [would a periodic stab{i}lization of a catalyst or conduit that doesn't impact the function of the mechanism still count as stable?]

This isn't entirely a hypothetical question -- it has been known to come up on occasion. If I remember right, there was a weld between two eaters somewhere or other, that required test tube baby spacing (maybe because there wasn't enough space below the eater tails for a P1 stabilization?):

Code: Select all

x = 20, y = 10, rule = B3/S23
2bo14bo$obo14bobo$b2o14b2o3$6b2o4b2o$6bobo2bobo$8bo2bo$8bo2bo$9b2o!

So there's a piece of the conduit that's period 2, and yet the conduit itself is period 1 -- the p2 part doesn't affect the allowable periods of signals going through the conduit.

We tend to dump conduits like that into the same "stable conduit" bin as other any conduit that accepts "P1" signals, even though the conduit itself isn't stable. On the other hand, situations like that come up very rarely in practice, so mostly we just don't bother to worry about the precise category of unusual cases like that.