Page 11 of 32
Re: Let's create a language!
Posted: October 21st, 2020, 11:09 pm
by Hunting
STOP! Neither of you are listening to each other. If you two continue to show this kind of behaviour, we won't reach any consensus.
Settled in stone are below:
e = /ɛ/
a = /ɐ/
i = /ɪ/
c = /t̠ʃ/
ch = /x/
d = /d/
English don't have zh anyway, so I don't see why do we need it.
--
Oh, I know what is the letter C argument about. BokaBB can't type t̠ʃ with his device so he used ts for substitution. Problem solved!
I purpose repeating a letter to indicate "natural sound", i. e. aa -> /a/, ee -> /e/. But let's worry about that later.
Name suggestion: Bokian
Re: Let's create a language!
Posted: October 22nd, 2020, 3:51 am
by Saka
My apologies but I couldn't resist from noticing this:
Hunting wrote: October 21st, 2020, 11:09 pm
English don't have zh anyway, so I don't see why do we need it.
--
I purpose repeating a letter to indicate "natural sound", i. e. aa -> /a/, ee -> /e/. But let's worry about that later.
??So what? English doesn't have a bunch of things that many, many, many other languages do. Some languages have tones, English does not. English does not have the alveolar trill as a phoneme, while many languages do. And I am assuming by "zh" you mean the sound /ʒ/? English (In most dialects anyway,)
does have that sound, a common example is in "vi
sion", which many people pronounce [ˈvɪ
ʒən].
What the heck is "natural sound"? If we are not going to make a distinction between /ɐ/ and /a/, or /ɛ/ and /e/, there is no need to have a way to write them.
Anyway I will not contribute to this language if it stays like this. To sort things out here's another link to the document
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... FW1zm/edit
I've added the phonemes and romanizations that Hunting claims have been "set in stone" above. I've made it editable by anyone with the link.
Re: Let's create a language!
Posted: October 22nd, 2020, 4:04 am
by Schiaparelliorbust
Saka wrote: October 22nd, 2020, 3:51 am
My apologies but I couldn't resist from noticing this:
Hunting wrote: October 21st, 2020, 11:09 pm
English don't have zh anyway, so I don't see why do we need it.
--
I purpose repeating a letter to indicate "natural sound", i. e. aa -> /a/, ee -> /e/. But let's worry about that later.
??So what? English doesn't have a bunch of things that many, many, many other languages do. Some languages have tones, English does not. English does not have the alveolar trill as a phoneme, while many languages do. And I am assuming by "zh" you mean the sound /ʒ/? English (In most dialects anyway,)
does have that sound, a common example is in "vi
sion", which many people pronounce [ˈvɪ
ʒən].
What the heck is "natural sound"? If we are not going to make a distinction between /ɐ/ and /a/, or /ɛ/ and /e/, there is no need to have a way to write them.
Anyway I will not contribute to this language if it stays like this. To sort things out here's another link to the document
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... FW1zm/edit
I've added the phonemes and romanizations that Hunting claims have been "set in stone" above. I've made it editable by anyone with the link.
Yes, we shouldn't limit our language based on other existing languages. Maybe natural sound means longer sound?
Hunting wrote: October 21st, 2020, 11:09 pm
STOP! Neither of you are listening to each other. If you two continue to show this kind of behaviour, we won't reach any consensus.
Settled in stone are below:
e = /ɛ/
a = /ɐ/
i = /ɪ/
c = /t̠ʃ/
ch = /x/
d = /d/
English don't have zh anyway, so I don't see why do we need it.
--
Oh, I know what is the letter C argument about. BokaBB can't type t̠ʃ with his device so he used ts for substitution. Problem solved!
I purpose repeating a letter to indicate "natural sound", i. e. aa -> /a/, ee -> /e/. But let's worry about that later.
Name suggestion: Bokian
Those sounds sound good. Also:
Re: Let's create a language!
Posted: October 22nd, 2020, 4:22 am
by Hunting
Saka wrote: October 22nd, 2020, 3:51 am
What the heck is "natural sound"? If we are not going to make a distinction between /ɐ/ and /a/, or /ɛ/ and /e/, there is no need to have a way to write them.
Why are we not going to make a distinction between /ɐ/ and /a/, or /ɛ/ and /e/? The two pairs are very different sounds. If you don't agree with my idea, explain your reasoning, but don't be rude and don't threaten others. Letter A is pronounced /ɐ/ as of now (same for letter E), but BokaBB wants an /a/ sound (because it is "more natural" - same for E), so this is a solution of that problem. So didn't you get what's "natural sound" from my two examples?
Re: Let's create a language!
Posted: October 22nd, 2020, 4:26 am
by Schiaparelliorbust
Hunting wrote: October 22nd, 2020, 4:22 am
Why are we not going to make a distinction between /ɐ/ and /a/, or /ɛ/ and /e/? If you don't agree with my idea, explain your reasoning. Letter A is pronounced /ɐ/ as of now (same for letter E), but BokaBB wants an /a/ sound (because it is "more natural" - same for E), so this is a solution of that problem. So didn't you get what's "natural sound" from my two examples?
Natural is subjective - I think should stop using the term. Also MathAndCode said we could use diacritics instead of diagraphs. I think that sounds reasonable.
Re: Let's create a language!
Posted: October 22nd, 2020, 4:33 am
by Saka
Hunting wrote: October 22nd, 2020, 4:22 am
Why are we not going to make a distinction between /ɐ/ and /a/, or /ɛ/ and /e/? The two pairs are very different sounds. If you don't agree with my idea, explain your reasoning, but don't be rude and don't threaten others. Letter A is pronounced /ɐ/ as of now (same for letter E), but BokaBB wants an /a/ sound (because it is "more natural" - same for E), so this is a solution of that problem. So didn't you get what's "natural sound" from my two examples?
Apologies for sounding rude (Although I was meaning to be a bit rude there, not gonna lie),
I was not aware that a distinction for /ɐ/ and /a/ or /ɛ/ and /e/ was wanted (I haven't been following this thread very much). However I will nitpick that "The two pairs are very different sounds." is pretty subjective as well. Also, I would also like to request you to not use "natural", and just say "How about ee for /ɛ/"
Schiaparelliorbust wrote: October 22nd, 2020, 4:26 am
Also MathAndCode said we could use diacritics instead of diagraphs. I think that sounds reasonable.
The thing with diacritics though, is some people are going to have to copy and paste some characters, which can be somewhat tedious.
Re: Let's create a language!
Posted: October 22nd, 2020, 4:35 am
by Hunting
Schiaparelliorbust wrote: October 22nd, 2020, 4:26 am
Hunting wrote: October 22nd, 2020, 4:22 am
Why are we not going to make a distinction between /ɐ/ and /a/, or /ɛ/ and /e/? If you don't agree with my idea, explain your reasoning. Letter A is pronounced /ɐ/ as of now (same for letter E), but BokaBB wants an /a/ sound (because it is "more natural" - same for E), so this is a solution of that problem. So didn't you get what's "natural sound" from my two examples?
Natural is subjective - I think should stop using the term. Also MathAndCode said we could use diacritics instead of diagraphs. I think that sounds reasonable.
The term is comes from BokaBB (albeit not directly), not me - yes, we should stop using the term.
Switching now to diacritics is too late IMO - we've been working on this language assuming its a Latin letters language. (Creating a dialect later with diacritics is also possible)
Re: Let's create a language!
Posted: October 22nd, 2020, 4:37 am
by Schiaparelliorbust
Saka wrote: October 22nd, 2020, 4:33 am
Hunting wrote: October 22nd, 2020, 4:22 am
Why are we not going to make a distinction between /ɐ/ and /a/, or /ɛ/ and /e/? The two pairs are very different sounds. If you don't agree with my idea, explain your reasoning, but don't be rude and don't threaten others. Letter A is pronounced /ɐ/ as of now (same for letter E), but BokaBB wants an /a/ sound (because it is "more natural" - same for E), so this is a solution of that problem. So didn't you get what's "natural sound" from my two examples?
Apologies for sounding rude (Although I was meaning to be a bit rude there, not gonna lie),
I was not aware that a distinction for /ɐ/ and /a/ or /ɛ/ and /e/ was wanted (I haven't been following this thread very much). However I will nitpick that "The two pairs are very different sounds." is pretty subjective as well. Also, I would also like to request you to not use "natural", and just say "How about ee for /ɛ/"
Schiaparelliorbust wrote: October 22nd, 2020, 4:26 am
Also MathAndCode said we could use diacritics instead of diagraphs. I think that sounds reasonable.
The thing with diacritics though, is some people are going to have to copy and paste some characters, which can be somewhat tedious.
The two pairs are objectively different sounds. About digraphs, you do have a point. What is your suggestion for writing the different sounds?
Re: Let's create a language!
Posted: October 22nd, 2020, 4:49 am
by Hunting
Saka wrote: October 22nd, 2020, 4:33 am
1. However I will nitpick that "The two pairs are very different sounds." is pretty subjective as well. Also, I would also like to request you to not use "natural", and just say "How about ee for /ɛ/"
2. The thing with diacritics though, is some people are going to have to copy and paste some characters, which can be somewhat tedious.
1. Not that subjective - /6/ is
Near-open central vowel, /a/ is
Open front unrounded vowel. And okay.
2. Yes.
Re: Let's create a language!
Posted: October 22nd, 2020, 4:58 am
by Schiaparelliorbust
Hunting wrote: October 22nd, 2020, 4:49 am
Saka wrote: October 22nd, 2020, 4:33 am
1. However I will nitpick that "The two pairs are very different sounds." is pretty subjective as well. Also, I would also like to request you to not use "natural", and just say "How about ee for /ɛ/"
2. The thing with diacritics though, is some people are going to have to copy and paste some characters, which can be somewhat tedious.
1. Not that subjective - /6/ is
Near-open central vowel, /a/ is
Open front unrounded vowel. And okay.
2. Yes.
The sounds they produce is obviously different. Anyways, is everybody okay with j being /dʒ/ and zh being /ʒ/?
Re: Let's create a language!
Posted: October 22nd, 2020, 5:01 am
by Hunting
Schiaparelliorbust wrote: October 22nd, 2020, 4:58 am
Hunting wrote: October 22nd, 2020, 4:49 am
Saka wrote: October 22nd, 2020, 4:33 am
1. However I will nitpick that "The two pairs are very different sounds." is pretty subjective as well. Also, I would also like to request you to not use "natural", and just say "How about ee for /ɛ/"
2. The thing with diacritics though, is some people are going to have to copy and paste some characters, which can be somewhat tedious.
1. Not that subjective - /6/ is
Near-open central vowel, /a/ is
Open front unrounded vowel. And okay.
2. Yes.
The sounds they produce is obviously different. Anyways, is everybody okay with j being /dʒ/ and zh being /ʒ/?
Agree. No objections on f, g, and h, right?
Re: Let's create a language!
Posted: October 22nd, 2020, 5:06 am
by Schiaparelliorbust
Hunting wrote: October 22nd, 2020, 5:01 am
Schiaparelliorbust wrote: October 22nd, 2020, 4:58 am
The sounds they produce is obviously different. Anyways, is everybody okay with j being /dʒ/ and zh being /ʒ/?
Agree. No objections on f, g, and h, right?
None. Y is /j/? Also, can anyone hear the difference between /ʃ/ and /ʂ/? They are the:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voiceless ... _fricative
and
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voiceless ... _fricative
Re: Let's create a language!
Posted: October 22nd, 2020, 5:13 am
by Hunting
Schiaparelliorbust wrote: October 22nd, 2020, 5:06 am
Hunting wrote: October 22nd, 2020, 5:01 am
Schiaparelliorbust wrote: October 22nd, 2020, 4:58 am
The sounds they produce is obviously different. Anyways, is everybody okay with j being /dʒ/ and zh being /ʒ/?
Agree. No objections on f, g, and h, right?
None. Y is /j/? Also, can anyone hear the difference between /ʃ/ and /ʂ/? They are the:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voiceless ... _fricative
and
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voiceless ... _fricative
I can - /ʂ/ is softer.
Re: Let's create a language!
Posted: October 22nd, 2020, 5:19 am
by Schiaparelliorbust
Hunting wrote: October 22nd, 2020, 5:13 am
I can - /ʂ/ is softer.
I may be able to hear the difference, I'm not sure, but I can't reliably pronounce the two differently. I'm asking again - y is /j/, right?
Re: Let's create a language!
Posted: October 22nd, 2020, 5:21 am
by Hunting
Schiaparelliorbust wrote: October 22nd, 2020, 5:19 am
Hunting wrote: October 22nd, 2020, 5:13 am
I can - /ʂ/ is softer.
I may be able to hear the difference, I'm not sure, but I can't reliably pronounce the two differently. I'm asking again - y is /j/, right?
No objections.
Re: Let's create a language!
Posted: October 22nd, 2020, 5:28 am
by Schiaparelliorbust
Ok then. Please vote on the sounds as I did a few posts back. Add anything else that you think needs resolving, too.
Re: Let's create a language!
Posted: October 22nd, 2020, 5:36 am
by Hunting
Schiaparelliorbust wrote: October 22nd, 2020, 5:28 am
Ok then. Please vote on the sounds as I did a few posts back. Add anything else that you think needs resolving, too.
Can you summarize them?
Re: Let's create a language!
Posted: October 22nd, 2020, 5:40 am
by Schiaparelliorbust
Schiaparelliorbust wrote: October 21st, 2020, 1:01 pm
I'm not sure about Saka but Moosey sure has contributed.
e = /ɛ/
a = /ɐ/
i = /ɪ/
ch = /x/
zh = /d̠ʒ/ or /ʒ/
j = /d̠ʒ/ or /ʒ/
ae = /a/
y = /j/
c = /t̠ʃ/
sh = /ʂ/
Let's also vote on whether we should have w (/w/) and th (/θ/ and/or /ð/). Give my vote on j and zh to the majority. For your vote to count, please write the sounds in IPA.
This was my post.
Re: Let's create a language!
Posted: October 22nd, 2020, 5:55 am
by Hunting
Schiaparelliorbust wrote: October 22nd, 2020, 5:40 am
Schiaparelliorbust wrote: October 21st, 2020, 1:01 pm
I'm not sure about Saka but Moosey sure has contributed.
e = /ɛ/
a = /ɐ/
i = /ɪ/
ch = /x/
zh = /d̠ʒ/ or /ʒ/
j = /d̠ʒ/ or /ʒ/
ae = /a/
y = /j/
c = /t̠ʃ/
sh = /ʂ/
Let's also vote on whether we should have w (/w/) and th (/θ/ and/or /ð/). Give my vote on j and zh to the majority. For your vote to count, please write the sounds in IPA.
This was my post.
Yes, we should have w and no we should not have th (this sound sounds nasty)
Re: Let's create a language!
Posted: October 22nd, 2020, 5:58 am
by Schiaparelliorbust
Hunting wrote: October 22nd, 2020, 5:55 am
Yes, we should have w and no we should not have th (this sound sounds nasty)
So neither /θ/ or /ð/, and other than that, no objections? /θ/ is the th in think and /ð/ is the th in father.
Re: Let's create a language!
Posted: October 22nd, 2020, 6:37 am
by BokaBB
Hunting wrote: October 21st, 2020, 11:09 pm
STOP! Neither of you are listening to each other. If you two continue to show this kind of behaviour, we won't reach any consensus.
Settled in stone are below:
e = /ɛ/
a = /ɐ/
i = /ɪ/
c = /t̠ʃ/
ch = /x/
d = /d/
English don't have zh anyway, so I don't see why do we need it.
--
Oh, I know what is the letter C argument about. BokaBB can't type t̠ʃ with his device so he used ts for substitution. Problem solved!
I purpose repeating a letter to indicate "natural sound", i. e. aa -> /a/, ee -> /e/. But let's worry about that later.
Name suggestion: Bokian
No. ts is a different IPA sound.
Have a good day!
BokaBB
Re: Let's create a language!
Posted: October 22nd, 2020, 6:41 am
by BokaBB
Schiaparelliorbust wrote: October 22nd, 2020, 5:06 am
Hunting wrote: October 22nd, 2020, 5:01 am
Schiaparelliorbust wrote: October 22nd, 2020, 4:58 am
The sounds they produce is obviously different. Anyways, is everybody okay with j being /dʒ/ and zh being /ʒ/?
Agree. No objections on f, g, and h, right?
None. Y is /j/? Also, can anyone hear the difference between /ʃ/ and /ʂ/? They are the:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voiceless ... _fricative
and
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voiceless ... _fricative
S with curve is stronger and harder.
We will not progress unless we settle on something. A is /a/,e /e/ and i /i/. Ae is rotated a. I won't allow the language to be without /a/. A is the most logical orthography. I can allow digraphs for other sounds,but I want the basic ones to be like this.
Have a good day!
BokaBB
Re: Let's create a language!
Posted: October 22nd, 2020, 6:50 am
by Schiaparelliorbust
BokaBB wrote: October 22nd, 2020, 6:37 am
Hunting wrote: October 21st, 2020, 11:09 pm
STOP! Neither of you are listening to each other. If you two continue to show this kind of behaviour, we won't reach any consensus.
Settled in stone are below:
e = /ɛ/
a = /ɐ/
i = /ɪ/
c = /t̠ʃ/
ch = /x/
d = /d/
English don't have zh anyway, so I don't see why do we need it.
--
Oh, I know what is the letter C argument about. BokaBB can't type t̠ʃ with his device so he used ts for substitution. Problem solved!
I purpose repeating a letter to indicate "natural sound", i. e. aa -> /a/, ee -> /e/. But let's worry about that later.
Name suggestion: Bokian
No. ts is a different IPA sound.
Have a good day!
BokaBB
Is this the ts:/ʈʂ/?
Re: Let's create a language!
Posted: October 22nd, 2020, 6:51 am
by BokaBB
Schiaparelliorbust wrote: October 22nd, 2020, 6:50 am
BokaBB wrote: October 22nd, 2020, 6:37 am
Hunting wrote: October 21st, 2020, 11:09 pm
STOP! Neither of you are listening to each other. If you two continue to show this kind of behaviour, we won't reach any consensus.
Settled in stone are below:
e = /ɛ/
a = /ɐ/
i = /ɪ/
c = /t̠ʃ/
ch = /x/
d = /d/
English don't have zh anyway, so I don't see why do we need it.
--
Oh, I know what is the letter C argument about. BokaBB can't type t̠ʃ with his device so he used ts for substitution. Problem solved!
I purpose repeating a letter to indicate "natural sound", i. e. aa -> /a/, ee -> /e/. But let's worry about that later.
Name suggestion: Bokian
No. ts is a different IPA sound.
Have a good day!
BokaBB
Is this the ts:/ʈʂ/?
No,it is indeed written just /ts/.
Elkeo beo rigeu!
BokaBB
Re: Let's create a language!
Posted: October 22nd, 2020, 8:12 am
by Moosey
BokaBB wrote: October 22nd, 2020, 6:41 am
We will not progress unless we settle on something. A is /a/,e /e/ and i /i/. Ae is rotated a.
Nooooooooooooo
A should be /ɒ/ and E should be /ɛ/. Maybe AE should be /a/