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What it is like to be a hassler?

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Re: What it is like to be a hassler?

Posted: October 9th, 2023, 1:46 pm
by MEisSCAMMER
dvgrn wrote: October 9th, 2023, 12:57 pmI kind of think that Tanner's p46 could quasi-reasonably be called a quasi-shuttle; it's more reasonable than calling a still life a "p1 oscillator", but that doesn't mean that it's really a good thing to call it.
I'm inclined to agree with you on this case; if we have this many "quasi"s in a row, it's probably a sign that the term isn't extremely useful. I do think that Tanner's p46 can be classified as a "hassler" but I'm not sure anyone is going to contest that. Worth throwing out though.

Re: What it is like to be a hassler?

Posted: October 17th, 2023, 9:13 am
by confocaloid
I think yes. But it is also a R-pentomino hassler and a beehive hassler, and one could also simply write 'p63 hassler' without specifying what is the hassled reaction or object, or '352P63' if the minimum population is of interest, or simply 'a p63 oscillator'.

Re: What it is like to be a hassler?

Posted: March 14th, 2024, 12:55 am
by confocaloid
There are some scattered claims along the lines of the following: I think such claims are incorrect. The honey farm is a stable constellation (a p1 pattern). Most oscillators described as "honey farm hasslers" so far actually hassle predecessors of the honey farm.

(Even though it's possible to engineer an actual honey farm hassler, which would hassle the constellation by hitting it with a spark, I don't remember seeing any reasonably small interesting examples of such oscillators.)

Re: What it is like to be a hassler?

Posted: April 2nd, 2024, 2:07 am
by Sokwe
I recently requested that the capped p37 gun be added to the honey farm hasslers wiki page, but I now see that it, like the old p6 honey farm "hassler", is actually a mutual stabilizer. It seemed like we came to the conclusion a while back that such things aren't "true" hasslers. In the p37 case I can contrive a "true" hassler using a gun and the p37 LoM hassler:

Code: Select all

x = 86, y = 97, rule = B3/S23
49bo$31b2o14b3o$32bo13bo$32bobo11b2o$33b2o2$39bo$38b2o$37b2obo$38bo2bo
14b2o$39b3o14bo$33b2o5bo13bobo$32bobo13bo5b2o$32bo14b3o$31b2o14bo2bo$
48bob2o$49b2o$49bo3$41b2o22b2o$42bo22bo11bo$39b3o21bobo9b3o$39bo13bo9b
2o9bo$52b3o19b2o$51b2ob2o16b3o$8b2o40b3ob3o15b2o$7bo2bo40b2ob2o17b2o$
8bobo36b2o3b3o18bo$9bo26b2o8bobo4bo14b3obo$36bobo7bo21b3o13b2o$10b2o
26bo2b2o2b2o37bo$13b2o14b2o6b2obobo18b2o19bobo$8b2obo20b2o4bobo19bobo
19b2o$2o6b2o3bob2o10b2obo7bob2o18bo$o2bob2ob2obo3b2o10b2o3bob2ob2obo2b
o15b2o13b3o$2b2obo7bob2o10b2obo3b2o6b2o3bo24bob3o$3bobo4b2o20bob2o10bo
24bo$bobob2o6b2o14b2o15b3o21b2o$b2o2bo26b2o37b2o$5bobo62b3o9b2o$6b2o
26bo34b2o11bobo$33bobo34bo13bo$33bo2bo30b3o14b2o$34b2o31bo2$27bo9bobo$
27b3o7b2o$30bo7bo$29b2o4$13b2o$9b2o3bo$9bo2bo$10b4o18b3o$31bo3bo$8b6o
16bo5bo$7bo2bo2bo16bo5bo$7b2o12bo8bo5bo$20bobo8bo3bo2b2o$19bo2bo9b3o3b
obo$14bo5b2o18bo$16bo23b2o$13b2obo$13bo13b2o$27b2o7b2o$15b2o19bobo$12b
ob2obo20bo$12bob2o22b2o9$11b2obo$9bob2obo$10b2o2$13bo$10bob2o$10bo$5b
2o5bo$4bo2bo$4bobo$5bo12b2o$13bo2bo2bo$13b6o2$13b4o$14bo2bo$12bo3b2o$
12b2o!
By removing the honey farm predecessor, it's easy to see that none of the outer components are dependent on it. However, this feels like cheating. Should something like this be included on the honey farm hasslers page instead of the smaller capped p37 glider gun? Does anyone know of a more elegant way to make a "true" p37 honey farm hassler?

Re: What it is like to be a hassler?

Posted: March 10th, 2025, 8:16 pm
by confocaloid
This is an attempt to illustrate one reason why it's problematic to define "X hassler" as "an oscillator hassling a predecessor of X".
hotcrystal0 wrote: March 10th, 2025, 7:24 pm [...] Now it’s a “true” hassler, because it uses parts that are stable by themselves:

Code: Select all

x = 39, y = 41, rule = B3/S23
13b2o10b2o$13bo12bo$15bo8bo$11b5o2bo2bo2b5o$10bo5b8o5bo$10bob5o6b5obo
$13bo4b4o4bo$11b2o2bo2bo2bo2bo2b2o$14b2o8b2o$13b2o10b2o$4bo8b2o10b2o$
3bob2obo5bo4b2o4bo$o2bobo2bo6b2o6b2o9bo$3ob2obobo20bob2obo$3bobo3bo6b
o6bo6bo2bobo2bo$2b2o2bo3bo6b6o6bobob2ob3o$3bo2bo4bob2o14bo3bobo$bo3bo
3b2o2b2o13bo3bo2b2o$b9o3bo6bo3b2obo4bo2bo$13bo4bo2bo2b2o2b2o3bo3bo$b9o
3bo3bo3bo3bo3b9o$bo3bo3b2o2b2o2bo2bo4bo$3bo2bo4bob2o3bo6bo3b9o$2b2o2b
o3bo13b2o2b2o3bo3bo$3bobo3bo14b2obo4bo2bo$3ob2obobo6b6o6bo3bo2b2o$o2b
obo2bo6bo6bo6bo3bobo$3bob2obo20bobob2ob3o$4bo9b2o6b2o6bo2bobo2bo$13bo
4b2o4bo5bob2obo$12b2o10b2o8bo$12b2o10b2o$13b2o8b2o$10b2o2bo2bo2bo2bo2b
2o$12bo4b4o4bo$9bob5o6b5obo$9bo5b8o5bo$10b5o2bo2bo2b5o$14bo8bo$12bo12b
o$12b2o10b2o!
That p4 oscillator can be considered a hassler. The hassled object, in one phase, consists of two blocks separated by one empty column and shifted by 1 cell (so that they interact with each other). If the hassled 8-bit object is deleted from that phase, then the supporting p4 sparkers continue to evolve in essentially the same way.

By itself, the hassled 8-bit object eventually evolves into a honey farm constellation. So one might be tempted to claim that the p4 hassler is a "honey farm hassler", or at least a "pre-honey farm hassler":

Code: Select all

x = 122, y = 41, rule = B3/S23
13b2o10b2o36b2o10b2o$13bo12bo36bo12bo$15bo8bo40bo8bo$11b5o2bo2bo2b5o
32b5o2bo2bo2b5o$10bo7b4o7bo30bo7b4o7bo$11b6o6b6o32b6o6b6o$16b8o42b8o$
12b2obo2bo2bo2bob2o34b2obo2bo2bo2bob2o$12bo2bo8bo2bo34bo2bo8bo2bo2$4b
2o9bo8bo29b2o9bo8bo$3bob3o5b2o10b2o26bob3o5b2o10b2o$o2bo4b2o5bo8bo8b2o
15bo2bo4b2o5bo8bo8b2o$3o2bo3bo5b2o6b2o6b3obo14b3o2bo3bo5b2o6b2o6b3obo$
5bo2b3o6b6o6b2o4bo2bo16bo2b3o6b6o6b2o4bo2bo$2b2ob2o3bo6b6o6bo3bo2b3o
13b2ob2o3bo6b6o6bo3bo2b3o$3b4o2bob4o3b4o6b3o2bo19b4o2bob4o3b4o6b3o2bo$
bo7b2o17bo3b2ob2o14bo7b2o17bo3b2ob2o$b10ob2o10b4obo2b4o15b10ob2o10b4ob
o2b4o$12b3o5b2o6b2o7bo24b3o13b2o7bo32b2o$b10ob2o3b2ob2o3b2ob10o13b10ob
2o11b2ob10o29b2ob2o$bo7b2o6b2o5b3o24bo7b2o13b3o40b2o$3b4o2bob4o10b2ob
10o15b4o2bob4o10b2ob10o$2b2ob2o3bo17b2o7bo14b2ob2o3bo17b2o7bo$5bo2b3o
6b4o3b4obo2b4o19bo2b3o6b4o3b4obo2b4o$3o2bo3bo6b6o6bo3b2ob2o13b3o2bo3bo
6b6o6bo3b2ob2o$o2bo4b2o6b6o6b3o2bo16bo2bo4b2o6b6o6b3o2bo$3bob3o6b2o6b
2o5bo3bo2b3o14bob3o6b2o6b2o5bo3bo2b3o$4b2o8bo8bo5b2o4bo2bo15b2o8bo8bo
5b2o4bo2bo$12b2o10b2o5b3obo26b2o10b2o5b3obo$14bo8bo9b2o29bo8bo9b2o2$
11bo2bo8bo2bo34bo2bo8bo2bo$11b2obo2bo2bo2bob2o34b2obo2bo2bo2bob2o$15b
8o42b8o$10b6o6b6o32b6o6b6o$9bo7b4o7bo30bo7b4o7bo$10b5o2bo2bo2b5o32b5o
2bo2bo2b5o$14bo8bo40bo8bo$12bo12bo36bo12bo$12b2o10b2o36b2o10b2o!
Note that the same p4 oscillator evolves in the same way in B37e/S23 (a two-state isotropic cellular automaton, where the only difference in the rules compared to Conway's Life is the rule saying that a cell is born if it currently has precisely seven alive neighbours and the dead neighbour is orthogonal).

However, by itself, the hassled 8-bit object in B37e/S23 fails to evolve into a honey farm constellation. So it is inaccurate to claim that the p4 hassler is a "honey farm hassler" or "pre-honey farm hassler", because it isn't:

Code: Select all

x = 122, y = 41, rule = B37e/S23
13b2o10b2o36b2o10b2o$13bo12bo36bo12bo$15bo8bo40bo8bo$11b5o2bo2bo2b5o
32b5o2bo2bo2b5o$10bo7b4o7bo30bo7b4o7bo$11b6o6b6o32b6o6b6o$16b8o42b8o$
12b2obo2bo2bo2bob2o34b2obo2bo2bo2bob2o$12bo2bo8bo2bo34bo2bo8bo2bo2$4b
2o9bo8bo29b2o9bo8bo$3bob3o5b2o10b2o26bob3o5b2o10b2o$o2bo4b2o5bo8bo8b2o
15bo2bo4b2o5bo8bo8b2o$3o2bo3bo5b2o6b2o6b3obo14b3o2bo3bo5b2o6b2o6b3obo$
5bo2b3o6b6o6b2o4bo2bo16bo2b3o6b6o6b2o4bo2bo$2b2ob2o3bo6b6o6bo3bo2b3o
13b2ob2o3bo6b6o6bo3bo2b3o$3b4o2bob4o3b4o6b3o2bo19b4o2bob4o3b4o6b3o2bo$
bo7b2o17bo3b2ob2o14bo7b2o17bo3b2ob2o$b10ob2o10b4obo2b4o15b10ob2o10b4ob
o2b4o$12b3o5b2o6b2o7bo24b3o13b2o7bo32b2o$b10ob2o3b2ob2o3b2ob10o13b10ob
2o11b2ob10o29b2ob2o$bo7b2o6b2o5b3o24bo7b2o13b3o40b2o$3b4o2bob4o10b2ob
10o15b4o2bob4o10b2ob10o$2b2ob2o3bo17b2o7bo14b2ob2o3bo17b2o7bo$5bo2b3o
6b4o3b4obo2b4o19bo2b3o6b4o3b4obo2b4o$3o2bo3bo6b6o6bo3b2ob2o13b3o2bo3bo
6b6o6bo3b2ob2o$o2bo4b2o6b6o6b3o2bo16bo2bo4b2o6b6o6b3o2bo$3bob3o6b2o6b
2o5bo3bo2b3o14bob3o6b2o6b2o5bo3bo2b3o$4b2o8bo8bo5b2o4bo2bo15b2o8bo8bo
5b2o4bo2bo$12b2o10b2o5b3obo26b2o10b2o5b3obo$14bo8bo9b2o29bo8bo9b2o2$
11bo2bo8bo2bo34bo2bo8bo2bo$11b2obo2bo2bo2bob2o34b2obo2bo2bo2bob2o$15b
8o42b8o$10b6o6b6o32b6o6b6o$9bo7b4o7bo30bo7b4o7bo$10b5o2bo2bo2b5o32b5o
2bo2bo2b5o$14bo8bo40bo8bo$12bo12bo36bo12bo$12b2o10b2o36b2o10b2o!
A similar situation occurs if the rules are changed to B3/S234e (is it a "spark hassler" now?):

Code: Select all

x = 122, y = 41, rule = B3/S234e
13b2o10b2o36b2o10b2o$13bo12bo36bo12bo$15bo8bo40bo8bo$11b5o2bo2bo2b5o
32b5o2bo2bo2b5o$10bo7b4o7bo30bo7b4o7bo$11b6o6b6o32b6o6b6o$16b8o42b8o$
12b2obo2bo2bo2bob2o34b2obo2bo2bo2bob2o$12bo2bo8bo2bo34bo2bo8bo2bo2$4b
2o9bo8bo29b2o9bo8bo$3bob3o5b2o10b2o26bob3o5b2o10b2o$o2bo4b2o5bo8bo8b2o
15bo2bo4b2o5bo8bo8b2o$3o2bo3bo5b2o6b2o6b3obo14b3o2bo3bo5b2o6b2o6b3obo$
5bo2b3o6b6o6b2o4bo2bo16bo2b3o6b6o6b2o4bo2bo$2b2ob2o3bo6b6o6bo3bo2b3o
13b2ob2o3bo6b6o6bo3bo2b3o$3b4o2bob4o3b4o6b3o2bo19b4o2bob4o3b4o6b3o2bo$
bo7b2o17bo3b2ob2o14bo7b2o17bo3b2ob2o$b10ob2o10b4obo2b4o15b10ob2o10b4ob
o2b4o$12b3o5b2o6b2o7bo24b3o13b2o7bo32b2o$b10ob2o3b2ob2o3b2ob10o13b10ob
2o11b2ob10o29b2ob2o$bo7b2o6b2o5b3o24bo7b2o13b3o40b2o$3b4o2bob4o10b2ob
10o15b4o2bob4o10b2ob10o$2b2ob2o3bo17b2o7bo14b2ob2o3bo17b2o7bo$5bo2b3o
6b4o3b4obo2b4o19bo2b3o6b4o3b4obo2b4o$3o2bo3bo6b6o6bo3b2ob2o13b3o2bo3bo
6b6o6bo3b2ob2o$o2bo4b2o6b6o6b3o2bo16bo2bo4b2o6b6o6b3o2bo$3bob3o6b2o6b
2o5bo3bo2b3o14bob3o6b2o6b2o5bo3bo2b3o$4b2o8bo8bo5b2o4bo2bo15b2o8bo8bo
5b2o4bo2bo$12b2o10b2o5b3obo26b2o10b2o5b3obo$14bo8bo9b2o29bo8bo9b2o2$
11bo2bo8bo2bo34bo2bo8bo2bo$11b2obo2bo2bo2bob2o34b2obo2bo2bo2bob2o$15b
8o42b8o$10b6o6b6o32b6o6b6o$9bo7b4o7bo30bo7b4o7bo$10b5o2bo2bo2b5o32b5o
2bo2bo2b5o$14bo8bo40bo8bo$12bo12bo36bo12bo$12b2o10b2o36b2o10b2o!
A similar situation occurs if the rules are changed to B3/S235y (also a "spark hassler", but this time the spark is different):

Code: Select all

x = 122, y = 41, rule = B3/S235y
13b2o10b2o36b2o10b2o$13bo12bo36bo12bo$15bo8bo40bo8bo$11b5o2bo2bo2b5o
32b5o2bo2bo2b5o$10bo7b4o7bo30bo7b4o7bo$11b6o6b6o32b6o6b6o$16b8o42b8o$
12b2obo2bo2bo2bob2o34b2obo2bo2bo2bob2o$12bo2bo8bo2bo34bo2bo8bo2bo2$4b
2o9bo8bo29b2o9bo8bo$3bob3o5b2o10b2o26bob3o5b2o10b2o$o2bo4b2o5bo8bo8b2o
15bo2bo4b2o5bo8bo8b2o$3o2bo3bo5b2o6b2o6b3obo14b3o2bo3bo5b2o6b2o6b3obo$
5bo2b3o6b6o6b2o4bo2bo16bo2b3o6b6o6b2o4bo2bo$2b2ob2o3bo6b6o6bo3bo2b3o
13b2ob2o3bo6b6o6bo3bo2b3o$3b4o2bob4o3b4o6b3o2bo19b4o2bob4o3b4o6b3o2bo$
bo7b2o17bo3b2ob2o14bo7b2o17bo3b2ob2o$b10ob2o10b4obo2b4o15b10ob2o10b4ob
o2b4o$12b3o5b2o6b2o7bo24b3o13b2o7bo32b2o$b10ob2o3b2ob2o3b2ob10o13b10ob
2o11b2ob10o29b2ob2o$bo7b2o6b2o5b3o24bo7b2o13b3o40b2o$3b4o2bob4o10b2ob
10o15b4o2bob4o10b2ob10o$2b2ob2o3bo17b2o7bo14b2ob2o3bo17b2o7bo$5bo2b3o
6b4o3b4obo2b4o19bo2b3o6b4o3b4obo2b4o$3o2bo3bo6b6o6bo3b2ob2o13b3o2bo3bo
6b6o6bo3b2ob2o$o2bo4b2o6b6o6b3o2bo16bo2bo4b2o6b6o6b3o2bo$3bob3o6b2o6b
2o5bo3bo2b3o14bob3o6b2o6b2o5bo3bo2b3o$4b2o8bo8bo5b2o4bo2bo15b2o8bo8bo
5b2o4bo2bo$12b2o10b2o5b3obo26b2o10b2o5b3obo$14bo8bo9b2o29bo8bo9b2o2$
11bo2bo8bo2bo34bo2bo8bo2bo$11b2obo2bo2bo2bob2o34b2obo2bo2bo2bob2o$15b
8o42b8o$10b6o6b6o32b6o6b6o$9bo7b4o7bo30bo7b4o7bo$10b5o2bo2bo2b5o32b5o
2bo2bo2b5o$14bo8bo40bo8bo$12bo12bo36bo12bo$12b2o10b2o36b2o10b2o!
A similar situation occurs if the rules are changed to B3/S236e (what was formerly a honey farm predecessor, now evolves into four well-separated blinkers):

Code: Select all

x = 122, y = 41, rule = B3/S236e
13b2o10b2o36b2o10b2o$13bo12bo36bo12bo$15bo8bo40bo8bo$11b5o2bo2bo2b5o
32b5o2bo2bo2b5o$10bo7b4o7bo30bo7b4o7bo$11b6o6b6o32b6o6b6o$16b8o42b8o$
12b2obo2bo2bo2bob2o34b2obo2bo2bo2bob2o$12bo2bo8bo2bo34bo2bo8bo2bo2$4b
2o9bo8bo29b2o9bo8bo$3bob3o5b2o10b2o26bob3o5b2o10b2o$o2bo4b2o5bo8bo8b2o
15bo2bo4b2o5bo8bo8b2o$3o2bo3bo5b2o6b2o6b3obo14b3o2bo3bo5b2o6b2o6b3obo$
5bo2b3o6b6o6b2o4bo2bo16bo2b3o6b6o6b2o4bo2bo$2b2ob2o3bo6b6o6bo3bo2b3o
13b2ob2o3bo6b6o6bo3bo2b3o$3b4o2bob4o3b4o6b3o2bo19b4o2bob4o3b4o6b3o2bo$
bo7b2o17bo3b2ob2o14bo7b2o17bo3b2ob2o$b10ob2o10b4obo2b4o15b10ob2o10b4ob
o2b4o$12b3o5b2o6b2o7bo24b3o13b2o7bo32b2o$b10ob2o3b2ob2o3b2ob10o13b10ob
2o11b2ob10o29b2ob2o$bo7b2o6b2o5b3o24bo7b2o13b3o40b2o$3b4o2bob4o10b2ob
10o15b4o2bob4o10b2ob10o$2b2ob2o3bo17b2o7bo14b2ob2o3bo17b2o7bo$5bo2b3o
6b4o3b4obo2b4o19bo2b3o6b4o3b4obo2b4o$3o2bo3bo6b6o6bo3b2ob2o13b3o2bo3bo
6b6o6bo3b2ob2o$o2bo4b2o6b6o6b3o2bo16bo2bo4b2o6b6o6b3o2bo$3bob3o6b2o6b
2o5bo3bo2b3o14bob3o6b2o6b2o5bo3bo2b3o$4b2o8bo8bo5b2o4bo2bo15b2o8bo8bo
5b2o4bo2bo$12b2o10b2o5b3obo26b2o10b2o5b3obo$14bo8bo9b2o29bo8bo9b2o2$
11bo2bo8bo2bo34bo2bo8bo2bo$11b2obo2bo2bo2bob2o34b2obo2bo2bo2bob2o$15b
8o42b8o$10b6o6b6o32b6o6b6o$9bo7b4o7bo30bo7b4o7bo$10b5o2bo2bo2b5o32b5o
2bo2bo2b5o$14bo8bo40bo8bo$12bo12bo36bo12bo$12b2o10b2o36b2o10b2o!
I think a reasonably good way to resolve these issues would be to avoid tying the meaning of "X hassler" to predecessors of X (which may vary depending on the rules of the CA).
Instead, "X hassler" is simply a hassler oscillator such that the hassled object is a copy of X (possibly rotated/reflected), in at least one phase.
That would mean "honey farm hassler" is only correct when the oscillator hassles the honey farm constellation. I'm not sure how many such oscillators are known.

Re: What it is like to be a hassler?

Posted: March 11th, 2025, 8:42 am
by hotdogPi
Overall, I would say no, that part of the sequence is too early.

However, I would still use the term "honey farm" for the other rules you mentioned (referring to the sequence, not the p4 hassler), since they follow the same sequence through at least this, making it the analogous sequence even if it finishes differently.

Code: Select all

x = 5, y = 7, rule = B3/S23
2bo$bobo$o3bo$o3bo$o3bo$bobo$2bo!
It's not like this p3 in B3/S23-n, which shares pretty much nothing in common despite being the same in generation 0:

Code: Select all

x = 5, y = 3, rule = B3/S23-n
3b2o$2ob2o$2o!

Re: What it is like to be a hassler?

Posted: March 13th, 2025, 12:52 am
by MathAndCode
confocaloid wrote: March 10th, 2025, 6:23 pm I think it shouldn't count as a HF hassler. I think considering it "HF hassler" loses the idea of hassling
There are two issues:
  1. Simply removing those eight bits from generation 0 causes failure of the remainder of the pattern. The given oscillator doesn't hassle that 8-bit configuration.
    EDIT: see the next post by hotcrystal0 for a pattern that seems to resolve this item: viewtopic.php?p=206496#p206496
  2. Even if it were possible to remove those 8 bits while leaving everything else unchanged, the period is too low, and I don't see here anything resembling a common pre-honeyfarm sequence.
(What will be next? Imagine a low-period oscillator hassling some early generation of a long-lasting object that evolves into a single glider and nothing else. Suppose "low-period" means below 10 ticks, and "long-lasting" means hundreds of ticks. Would you want to describe such an oscillator as "glider hassler" merely because it hassles a glider predecessor? Would that be a good helpful description? Would that be a helpful category?)

I think the situation with "HF hasslers" is comparable. Most of them don't hassle the honey farm constellation, and instead hassle some predecessor.
It would be interesting to look through known "HF hasslers" and subdivide them into some (more clearly and precisely defined) categories, depending on the specific predecessor / evolutionary sequence.
I think that everyone on these forums know what honey farm hassler means. I shall note that the following oscillator, which modifies the same generation of the same honey farm predecessor, is already listed in Honey farm hasslers

Code: Select all

x = 37, y = 31, rule = B3/S23
26bo$24b3o$23bo8b2o$23bob2o5bo$22b2obobo5bo$27bo4b2o$25bobob2o$10bo13b
2obobob5o$10b3o9b2o3bo5bo2bo$3b2o8bo8b2obo2b4o3b2o$4bo5b2obo7b2o2b3o4b
o$3bo5bobob2o6b3o6bobo$3b2o4bo11b3o6bobo$6b2obobo6b2ob2o2b3o4bo$b5obo
bob2o5b2o2b2obo2b4o3b2o$o2bo5bo3b2o2bobo2b2o3bo5bo2bo$2o3b4o2bob2o2b2o
5b2obobob5o$4bo4b3o2b2ob2o6bobob2o$4bobo6b3o11bo4b2o$4bobo6b3o6b2obob
o5bo$4bo4b3o2b2o7bob2o5bo$2o3b4o2bob2o8bo8b2o$o2bo5bo3b2o9b3o$b5obobo
b2o13bo$6b2obobo$3b2o4bo$3bo5bobob2o$4bo5b2obo$3b2o8bo$10b3o$10bo!
Both of those have the honey farm predecessor make its first interaction 16 generations before the honey farm would form.
Therefore, it would seem that adding hotcrystal0's version of my oscillator to that wiki page would be consistent with what is already there. If several honey farm hasslers that let the honey farm form before beginning to hassle it are found, feel free to rename the page Honey farm hasslers to Honey farm predecessor hasslers and then dedicate the page Honey farm hasslers to those honey farm hasslers. If we do this in the future, I think that we should put this oscillator in the page Honey farm hasslers instead of trying to find it when the page Honey farm predecessor hasslers gets created, and if no one sees a need to split this, then I see no harm in adding it now. Also, the page Pre-pulsar hasslers has multiple oscillators where the pulsar actually forms, such as the p42 pulsar hassler and this p100 hassler, so I don't think that most people will complain.

Re: What it is like to be a hassler?

Posted: March 13th, 2025, 1:31 am
by confocaloid
Well, I think "everyone know" is probably a bit too strong. From what I understand so far, "being a honeyfarm hassler" is a complicated subject, people are trying to distinguish between specific evolutionary sequences, there are various differences of opinion, there are no simple yes/no tests to decide whether or not a given oscillator counts, is it even a concept? Or it's merely a phrase to refer to some sort of a pattern? What it is like to be a honeyfarm hassler? What it is like for the honeyfarm hassler?

At some point, there are way too many concrete examples to collect them all. This happens for many different sorts of CA patterns/objects/reactions/components, whenever people are collecting lots of examples. It is possible that honeyfarm hasslers already reached that point. So it seems reasonable to hope for some way of testing whether or not a given oscillator counts (a simple yes/no test; or at least some kind of measurement), and to hope for some criteria that would allow selecting those HF hasslers that are "more interesting" in some objective ways (to be clarified), and to omit the rest as either "boring" or "does not count as an example".

The comparison between the p4 and the p5 is interesting. However, I'm not sure whether the p5 example you posted should be on the wiki page. I think it is plausible that it wouldn't count as an example either, for a reasonable definition of honeyfarm hassler.
MathAndCode wrote: March 13th, 2025, 12:52 am
confocaloid wrote: March 10th, 2025, 6:23 pm [...]
I think that everyone on these forums know what honey farm hassler means. I shall note that the following oscillator, which modifies the same generation of the same honey farm predecessor, is already listed in Honey farm hasslers

Code: Select all

x = 37, y = 31, rule = B3/S23
Both of those have the honey farm predecessor make its first interaction 16 generations before the honey farm would form.
Therefore, it would seem that adding hotcrystal0's version of my oscillator to that wiki page would be consistent with what is already there. [...]

Re: What it is like to be a hassler?

Posted: March 13th, 2025, 2:53 am
by Sokwe
MathAndCode wrote: March 13th, 2025, 12:52 am
confocaloid wrote: March 13th, 2025, 1:31 am
I moved these posts to a more relevant thread.

I'm still wondering if the following pattern should count as a p2 honey farm hassler:

Code: Select all

x = 14, y = 5, rule = B3/S23
4bo4bo$2obobo2bobob2o$bobobo2bobobo$o2bobo2bobo2bo$2o2bo4bo2b2o!
And should this count as a p3 pi hassler?
Scorbie wrote: October 8th, 2022, 5:08 am p3 pi hassler as a joke

Code: Select all

x = 35, y = 61, rule = B3/S23
6b2obo2bob2o5b2obo2bo$5bobob4obobo2bo2bob4o$5bobo5bo2b5obo5b2obo$4b2ob
4o2bobo5bob4obob2o$7bobobobo2bobo2bobobobo$6b2ob3o2bobobob2obobo$4b2o
6bo2b2o5b3obo$2o5bo3bo3bo2bo2bo5bob2o$obo2bo8bobob2obo2bob2ob2o$2bo2bo
3bob2o3bo2b3o2b2obo$obo2b3obobobo3b2o2b3obobo$2o10b2o7bo3bob2o$5bo4bob
3ob2o8bo2bob2o$5b2ob2ob2o2b3o2bob2ob2o2bobo$4bo4bo2bo6bob2o2b2o2bobo$
5b4o3bobobo4b2o5b4ob2o$10bo2b2ob5o7bo3bobo$5b4obo4bo5bob2obobobobo$5bo
2b2o5bob2o2bo2bob2obobobo$16bobo3b2o5bo3bo$29b2o2b2o20$6b2obo2bob2o5b
2obo2bo$5bobob4obobo2bo2bob4o$5bobo5bo2b5obo5b2obo$4b2ob4o2bobo5bob4ob
ob2o$7bobobobo2bobo2bobobobo$6b2ob3o2bobobob2obobo$4b2o6bo2b2o5b3obo$
7bo3bo3bo2bo2bo5bob2o$5bo8bobob2obo2bob2ob2o$5bo3bob2o3bo2b3o2b2obo$5b
3obobobo3b2o2b3obobo$12b2o7bo3bob2o$5bo4bob3ob2o8bo2bob2o$5b2ob2ob2o2b
3o2bob2ob2o2bobo$4bo4bo2bo6bob2o2b2o2bobo$5b4o3bobobo4b2o5b4ob2o$10bo
2b2ob5o7bo3bobo$5b4obo4bo5bob2obobobobo$5bo2b2o5bob2o2bo2bob2obobobo$
16bobo3b2o5bo3bo$29b2o2b2o!
Ultimately, I think answers to these questions are going to vary from person to person unless somebody comes up with a precise definition of hassler that somehow satisfies everyone, but that doesn't seem worth the effort, or even likely to be achievable.

Re: What it is like to be a hassler?

Posted: March 22nd, 2025, 4:37 pm
by WhiteHawk
Unrelated to previous discussion, but posting here for posterity.
WhiteHawk wrote: March 16th, 2025, 3:38 pm I think there should be a category on the wiki for unnamed hassling regions, where hasslers of unnamed regions can go with a little descriptor of each somewhere.

EDIT: or maybe just an option for uncommon hassled objects, named or not, with room for hassled objects like I-heptominos or Herschels.

Re: What it is like to be a hassler?

Posted: March 22nd, 2025, 4:45 pm
by confocaloid
The wiki isn't for everything that exists (see LW:NB). It sounds like most "uncommon hassled objects" are going to fail the notability test.

(Also, it is not completely clear what is suggested here, what sort of changes it would be and how it would work. MediaWiki categories collect pages, and uncommon hassled objects aren't going to be notable enough to have a page each. "Option" doesn't sound like a MediaWiki term for anything in particular, it is unclear what is meant here.)
WhiteHawk wrote: March 16th, 2025, 3:38 pm I think there should be a category on the wiki for unnamed hassling regions, where hasslers of unnamed regions can go with a little descriptor of each somewhere.

EDIT: or maybe just an option for uncommon hassled objects, named or not, with room for hassled objects like I-heptominos or Herschels.

Re: What it is like to be a hassler?

Posted: April 3rd, 2025, 6:31 pm
by MathAndCode
Sokwe wrote: March 13th, 2025, 2:53 amI'm still wondering if the following pattern should count as a p2 honey farm hassler:

Code: Select all

x = 14, y = 5, rule = B3/S23
4bo4bo$2obobo2bobob2o$bobobo2bobobo$o2bobo2bobo2bo$2o2bo4bo2b2o!
It would not count because the pseudo-islands do not evolve into honey farms by themselves.

Code: Select all

x = 6, y = 5, rule = B3/S23
4bo$2obobo$bobobo$o2bobo$2o2bo!
Sokwe wrote: March 13th, 2025, 2:53 am And should this count as a p3 pi hassler?
Scorbie wrote: October 8th, 2022, 5:08 am p3 pi hassler as a joke

Code: Select all

x = 35, y = 61, rule = B3/S23
6b2obo2bob2o5b2obo2bo$5bobob4obobo2bo2bob4o$5bobo5bo2b5obo5b2obo$4b2ob
4o2bobo5bob4obob2o$7bobobobo2bobo2bobobobo$6b2ob3o2bobobob2obobo$4b2o
6bo2b2o5b3obo$2o5bo3bo3bo2bo2bo5bob2o$obo2bo8bobob2obo2bob2ob2o$2bo2bo
3bob2o3bo2b3o2b2obo$obo2b3obobobo3b2o2b3obobo$2o10b2o7bo3bob2o$5bo4bob
3ob2o8bo2bob2o$5b2ob2ob2o2b3o2bob2ob2o2bobo$4bo4bo2bo6bob2o2b2o2bobo$
5b4o3bobobo4b2o5b4ob2o$10bo2b2ob5o7bo3bobo$5b4obo4bo5bob2obobobobo$5bo
2b2o5bob2o2bo2bob2obobobo$16bobo3b2o5bo3bo$29b2o2b2o20$6b2obo2bob2o5b
2obo2bo$5bobob4obobo2bo2bob4o$5bobo5bo2b5obo5b2obo$4b2ob4o2bobo5bob4ob
ob2o$7bobobobo2bobo2bobobobo$6b2ob3o2bobobob2obobo$4b2o6bo2b2o5b3obo$
7bo3bo3bo2bo2bo5bob2o$5bo8bobob2obo2bob2ob2o$5bo3bob2o3bo2b3o2b2obo$5b
3obobobo3b2o2b3obobo$12b2o7bo3bob2o$5bo4bob3ob2o8bo2bob2o$5b2ob2ob2o2b
3o2bob2ob2o2bobo$4bo4bo2bo6bob2o2b2o2bobo$5b4o3bobobo4b2o5b4ob2o$10bo
2b2ob5o7bo3bobo$5b4obo4bo5bob2obobobobo$5bo2b2o5bob2o2bo2bob2obobobo$
16bobo3b2o5bo3bo$29b2o2b2o!
Yes, and this also yields a p3 honey farm hassler.

Code: Select all

x = 67, y = 23, rule = B3/S23
2o2b2o$bo3bo5b2o3bobo$bobobob2obo2bo2b2obo5b2o2bo8b2obo2bob2o5b2obo2b
o$2bobobobob2obo5bo4bob4o7bobob4obobo2bo2bob4o$obo3bo7b5ob2o2bo12bobo
5bo2b5obo5b2obo$2ob4o5b2o4bobobo3b4o6b2ob4o2bobo5bob4obob2o$3bobo2b2o
2b2obo6bo2bo4bo8bobobobo2bobo2bobobobo$3bobo2b2ob2obo2b3o2b2ob2ob2o8b
2ob3o2bobobob2obobo$2b2obo2bo8b2ob3obo4bo6b2o6bo2b2o5b3obo$6b2obo3bo7b
2o10bo5bo3bo3bo2bo2bo5bob2o$7bobob3o2b2o3bobobob3o2bobo2bo8bobob2obo2b
ob2ob2o$7bob2o2b3o2bo3b2obo3bo2bobo2bo3bob2o3bo2b3o2b2obo$4b2ob2obo2b
ob2obobo8bo2bobo2b3obobobo3b2o2b3obobo$4b2obo5bo2bo2bo3bo3bo5bo10b2o7b
o3bob2o$8bob3o5b2o2bo6b2o6bo4bob3ob2o8bo2bob2o$9bobob2obobobo2b3ob2o8b
2ob2ob2o2b3o2bob2ob2o2bobo$7bobobobo2bobo2bobobobo8bo4bo2bo6bob2o2b2o
2bobo$3b2obob4obo5bobo2b4ob2o6b4o3bobobo4b2o5b4ob2o$3bob2o5bob5o2bo5b
obo12bo2b2ob5o7bo3bobo$7b4obo2bo2bobob4obobo7b4obo4bo5bob2obobobobo$7b
o2bob2o5b2obo2bob2o8bo2b2o5bob2o2bo2bob2obobobo$48bobo3b2o5bo3bo$61b2o
2b2o!

Re: What it is like to be a hassler?

Posted: April 5th, 2025, 8:07 pm
by confocaloid
MathAndCode wrote: April 3rd, 2025, 6:31 pm [...] It would not count because the pseudo-islands do not evolve into honey farms by themselves. [...]
[...] Yes, and this also yields a p3 honey farm hassler. [...]
My understanding is that neither of those two examples really counts as a honeyfarm hassler, as long as the phrase 'honeyfarm hassler' is intended to refer to an interesting concept.

(In the event that people eventually discover that "honeyfarm hassler" fails to refer to an interesting concept, I think it would be reasonable to add additional clarifications and restrictions, if/when necessary clearly defining related concepts and sticking to definitions.)

Neither of these oscillators should count as a honeyfarm hassler. An interpretation that allows them to count is simply way too generous to be useful.

Code: Select all

x = 121, y = 74, rule = DoubleB3S23
86.2C10.2C$86.C12.C$88.C8.C$84.5C2.C2.C2.5C$83.C5.8C5.C$83.C.5C6.5C.C
$86.C4.4C4.C$84.2C2.C2.C2.C2.C2.2C$87.2C8.2C$86.2C10.2C$77.C8.2C10.2C
$76.C.2C.C5.C4.2C4.C$73.C2.C.C2.C6.2C6.2C9.C$73.3C.2C.C.C20.C.2C.C$
76.C.C3.C6.C6.C6.C2.C.C2.C$75.2C2.C3.C6.6C6.C.C.2C.3C$76.C2.C4.C.2C
14.C3.C.C$74.C3.C3.2C2.2C13.C3.C2.2C$74.9C3.C6.A3.2C.C4.C2.C$86.C4.A
2.A2.2C2.2C3.C3.C$74.9C3.C3.A3.A3.C3.9C$74.C3.C3.2C2.2C2.A2.A4.C$76.C
2.C4.C.2C3.A6.C3.9C$75.2C2.C3.C13.2C2.2C3.C3.C$76.C.C3.C14.2C.C4.C2.C
$73.3C.2C.C.C6.6C6.C3.C2.2C$39.2C.C2.C.2C5.2C.C2.C12.C2.C.C2.C6.C6.C
6.C3.C.C$38.C.C.4C.C.C2.C2.C.4C15.C.2C.C20.C.C.2C.3C$38.C.C5.C2.5C.C
5.2C.C12.C9.2C6.2C6.C2.C.C2.C$37.2C.4C2.C.C5.C.4C.C.2C21.C4.2C4.C5.C.
2C.C$40.C.C.C.C2.C.C2.C.C.C.C24.2C10.2C8.C$39.2C.3C2.C.C.C.2C.C.C26.
2C10.2C$37.2C6.C2.2C5.3C.C26.2C8.2C$33.2A5.C3.C3.C2.C2.C5.C.2C19.2C2.
C2.C2.C2.C2.2C$4.A4.A23.A.A2.C8.C.C.2C.C2.C.2C.2C21.C4.4C4.C$2C.A.A2.
A.A.2C21.A2.C3.C.2C3.C2.3C2.2C.C21.C.5C6.5C.C$.C.A.A2.A.A.C20.A.A2.3C
.C.C.C3.2C2.3C.C.C21.C5.8C5.C$C2.A.A2.A.A2.C19.2A10.2C7.C3.C.2C21.5C
2.C2.C2.5C$2C2.A4.A2.2C24.C4.C.3C.2C8.C2.C.2C21.C8.C$38.2C.2C.2C2.3C
2.C.2C.2C2.C.C20.C12.C$37.C4.C2.C6.C.2C2.2C2.C.C20.2C10.2C$38.4C3.C.C
.C4.2C5.4C.2C$43.C2.2C.5C7.C3.C.C$38.4C.C4.C5.C.2C.C.C.C.C44.C$38.C2.
2C5.C.2C2.C2.C.2C.C.C.C41.3C$49.C.C3.2C5.C3.C40.C8.2C$62.2C2.2C39.C.
2C5.C$106.2C.C.C5.C$111.C4.2C$2C2.2C103.C.C.2C$.C3.C5.2C3.C.C75.C13.
2C.C.C.5C$.C.C.C.2C.C2.C2.2C.C5.2C2.C8.2C.C2.C.2C5.2C.C2.C34.3C9.2C3.
C5.C2.C$2.C.C.C.C.2C.C5.C4.C.4C7.C.C.4C.C.C2.C2.C.4C27.2C8.C8.2C.C2.
4C3.2C$C.C3.C7.5C.2C2.C12.C.C5.C2.5C.C5.2C.C24.C5.2C.C7.2C2.3C4.C$2C.
4C5.2C4.C.C.C3.4C6.2C.4C2.C.C5.C.4C.C.2C23.C5.C.C.2C6.3C6.C.C$3.C.C2.
2C2.2C.C6.C2.C4.C8.C.C.C.C2.C.C2.C.C.C.C27.2C4.C11.3C6.C.C$3.C.C2.2C.
2C.C2.3C2.2C.2C.2C8.2C.3C2.C.C.C.2C.C.C32.2C.C.C6.2A.2C2.3C4.C$2.2C.C
2.C8.2C.3C.C4.C6.2C6.C2.2C5.3C.C26.5C.C.C.2C5.2A2.2C.C2.4C3.2C$6.2C.C
3.C7.2C10.A5.C3.C3.C2.C2.C5.C.2C21.C2.C5.C3.2C2.A.A2.2C3.C5.C2.C$7.C.
C.3C2.2C3.C.C.C.3C2.A.A2.C8.C.C.2C.C2.C.2C.2C21.2C3.4C2.C.2C2.2A5.2C.
C.C.5C$7.C.2C2.3C2.C3.2C.C3.C2.A.A2.C3.C.2C3.C2.3C2.2C.C28.C4.3C2.2C.
2A6.C.C.2C$4.2C.2C.C2.C.2C.C.C8.C2.A.A2.3C.C.C.C3.2C2.3C.C.C28.C.C6.
3C11.C4.2C$4.2C.C5.C2.C2.C3.C3.C5.A10.2C7.C3.C.2C27.C.C6.3C6.2C.C.C5.
C$8.C.3C5.2C2.C6.2C6.C4.C.3C.2C8.C2.C.2C23.C4.3C2.2C7.C.2C5.C$9.C.C.
2C.C.C.C2.3C.2C8.2C.2C.2C2.3C2.C.2C.2C2.C.C20.2C3.4C2.C.2C8.C8.2C$7.C
.C.C.C2.C.C2.C.C.C.C8.C4.C2.C6.C.2C2.2C2.C.C20.C2.C5.C3.2C9.3C$3.2C.C
.4C.C5.C.C2.4C.2C6.4C3.C.C.C4.2C5.4C.2C18.5C.C.C.2C13.C$3.C.2C5.C.5C
2.C5.C.C12.C2.2C.5C7.C3.C.C23.2C.C.C$7.4C.C2.C2.C.C.4C.C.C7.4C.C4.C5.
C.2C.C.C.C.C22.2C4.C$7.C2.C.2C5.2C.C2.C.2C8.C2.2C5.C.2C2.C2.C.2C.C.C.
C21.C5.C.C.2C$48.C.C3.2C5.C3.C22.C5.2C.C$61.2C2.2C20.2C8.C$94.3C$94.C!

Re: What it is like to be a hassler?

Posted: April 6th, 2025, 11:35 pm
by confocaloid
Here is a period-5000 hassler oscillator, very small and Thessalonic. It might be interesting to make it even smaller (while keeping it Thessalonic. Not counting the hassled reaction, only blocks and eater 1s are allowed) and to let the lightweight spaceship escape.

Code: Select all

x = 607, y = 389, rule = B3/S23
243bo$241b3o$240bo$240b2o3$250bo$248b3o$247bo$247b2o5$226b2o$225bobo$
225bo$224b2o3$229b2o$228bobo$228bo$227b2o6$238b2o$238b2o2$247b2o$135bo
111bo$135b3o110b3o$138bo111bo$137b2o3$128bo$128b3o$131bo118bo$130b2o
116b3o$247bo$238b2o7b2o$238b2o18bo$256b3o$151b2o102bo$151bobo75b2o24b
2o$153bo75b2o$153b2o3$148b2o$148bobo79b2o14b2o9b2o$150bo80bo14b2o9bobo
$150b2o76b3o3b2o23bo$228bo4bobo23b2o$233bo$232b2o3$139b2o94b2o15b2o$
139b2o93bobo15bobo$234bo19bo$130b2o101b2o19b2o$131bo117b2o$128b3o118bo
$128bo121b3o$252bo5$128bo$128b3o$131bo$130b2o7b2o$120bo18b2o$120b3o$
123bo$122b2o24b2o$148b2o5$120b2o9b2o14b2o$119bobo9b2o14bo$119bo23b2o3b
3o$118b2o23bobo4bo$145bo$145b2o3$125b2o15b2o$124bobo15bobo$124bo19bo$
123b2o19b2o$128b2o59bo$17bo111bo59b3o$15b3o108b3o63bo$14bo111bo64b2o$
14b2o7bo155b2o$21b3o32b2o72b2o3b2o27bo15bo$20bo27b2o6bo73b2o3b2o25b3o
15bobo$20b2o26b2o4bobo104bo19b2o$54b2o105b2o40b2o$59bo63b2o78b2o$57b3o
5bo58bo$56bo6b3o58bobo$56b2o4bo62b2o$62b2o$164b2o$29b2o13b2o118b2o34b
2o$29b2o13b2o154bo$2b2o197b3o$bobo199bo$bo126b2o63b2o$2o127bo63b2o2b2o
$126b3o28b2o38bobo$126bo31bo15b2o23bo$54b2o99b3o17bo23b2o$8b2o22b2o9b
2o9b2o99bo16b3o203bo$7bobo22bobo7bobo127bo203b3o$7bo26bo7bo23b2o307bo$
6b2o26b2o5b2o23bobo306b2o$68bo$62b2o4b2o71b2o$62bo78b2o237b2o$63b3o
314bo$47b2o16bo66b2o244bobo$46bobo84bo244b2o$46bo7b2o74b3o$45b2o7bo75b
o98b2o$55b3o172bo$57bo172bobo$231b2o$373bo$372bobo$130bo241bo2bo$130b
3o240b2o$133bo254b2o$132b2o7b2o245bo$122bo18b2o243bobo$122b3o261b2o$
125bo$124b2o24b2o$150b2o154bo48bo18b3o$306b3o44b3o17bo3bo$309bo7b2o33b
o19bo5bo$308b2o7bo34b2o19bo3bo$315bobo22bo33b3o$122b2o9b2o14b2o147bo
16b2o23b3o$121bobo9b2o14bo148b3o42bo16b2o$121bo23b2o3b3o148bo40b2o16b
2o$120b2o23bobo4bo141b2o4b2o$147bo147bo$147b2o146bobo23b2o5b2o26b2o$
296b2o23bo7bo26b2o$319bobo7bobo$127b2o15b2o162b2o9b2o9b2o$126bobo15bob
o161b2o$126bo19bo$125b2o19b2o$130b2o$131bo$128b3o$128bo232b2o$318b2o
13b2o26b2o21b2o$318b2o13b2o49bobo$386bo$300b2o84b2o$301bo4b2o70b2o$
298b3o6bo70bo$298bo5b3o51b2o19b3o$304bo53bo22bo$308b2o49b3o$307bobo4b
2o45bo$307bo6b2o$306b2o44$134bo$132b3o$131bo$131b2o$115b2o19b2o$116bo
19bo$116bobo15bobo$117b2o15b2o3$114b2o$115bo$110bo4bobo23b2o$110b3o3b
2o23bo14bo$113bo14b2o9bobo14b3o$112b2o14b2o9b2o18bo7b2o$158b2o7bo$165b
obo19b2o$148bo16b2o21bo$148b3o37bobo$111b2o38bo37b2o$111b2o24b2o5b2o4b
2o$137bo7bo$138b3o4bobo23b2o5b2o26b2o$120b2o18bo5b2o23bo7bo26bo$120b2o
7b2o38bobo7bobo22bobo$129bo28b2o9b2o9b2o22b2o$130b3o25b2o$132bo6$132bo
35b2o13b2o$130b3o35b2o13b2o$129bo$129b2o19b2o$151bo4b2o$120b2o26b3o6bo
$120b2o26bo5b3o$154bo$158b2o$157bobo4b2o26b2o$157bo6b2o27bo$156b2o32b
3o$109b2o79bo7b2o$110bo88bo$110bobo83b3o$111b2o83bo3$106b2o$107bo$107b
obo$108b2o5$129b2o$129bo$130b3o$132bo3$122b2o$122bo$123b3o$125bo3$209b
o$209b3o$212bo$211b2o$206b2o19b2o$207bo19bo$207bobo15bobo$208b2o15b2o
3$228b2o$228bo$201b2o23bobo4bo$202bo23b2o3b3o$202bobo9b2o14bo$203b2o9b
2o14b2o5$231b2o$205b2o24b2o$206bo$203b3o$203bo18b2o$213b2o7b2o$214bo$
211b3o$211bo3$288bo$286b3o$285bo43b2o$211bo73b2o42b2o$211b3o59bo$214bo
58b3o$213b2o61bo$275b2o61b2o$222b2o114bo$222b2o112bobo184bo$262bo26b2o
45b2o183b3o$262b3o24b2o82b2o145bo$265bo107b2o99bo45b2o$264b2o206b3o33b
o78bo18bo$236bo234bo36b3o76b3o5b2o7b3o$236b3o186bo45b2o38bo78bo4b2o6bo
$207bo31bo115bo26b2o39b3o33bo50b2o77b2o12b2o$207b3o28b2o115b3o24bo39bo
36b3o$210bo104b2o41bo21bobo39b2o38bo$209b2o104b2o40b2o21b2o28bo50b2o
34bo26b2o11bo52b2o$294b2o114b3o84b3o24b2o11b3o50b2o3b2o$266b2o26b2o
117bo86bo39bo54b2o$266b2o144b2o34bo26b2o22b2o38b2o$245b2o201b3o24b2o$
245b2o204bo111bo$399bo26b2o22b2o109b3o$206b2o191b3o24b2o132bo$205bobo
83b2o66b2o41bo157b2o$205bo85bo67b2o40b2o$204b2o86b3o43b2o189b2o$242b2o
50bo43b2o161b2o26b2o$242bo258b2o$211b2o3b2o8b2o15b3o234b2o$211b2o3b2o
9bo17bo206b2o26b2o$224b3o95b2o128b2o$224bo93b2o2b2o107b2o136b2o$317bob
o15b2o66b2o26b2o93b2o41b2o$317bo17bo67b2o121bo19b2o$316b2o18b3o43b2o
143b3o15bobo$338bo43b2o93b2o50bo15bo$477bo66b2o10b2o$478b3o76bo$428b2o
50bo73b3o9b2o$366b2o60bo125bo11bo$362b2o2b2o61b3o135b3o$361bobo15b2o
50bo137bo$361bo17bo$360b2o18b3o$382bo10$594b2o$595bo$592b3o$592bo!
Why I'm posting it here?

As a Thessalonic engineered hassler oscillator, it hassles the following collision between a loaf and a honeyfarm predecessor. Neither loaf nor honeyfarm is Thessalonic. The oscillator contains a phase where the hassled reaction exactly matches the shown configuration, and everything else is blocks and eater 1s:

Code: Select all

x = 7, y = 15, rule = B3/S23
bo$obo$o2bo$b2o7$2b3o$bo3bo$o5bo$bo3bo$2b3o!
Alternatively, if you count the loaf as a catalyst, then the same p5000 oscillator can be considered honeyfarm hassler (more precisely, pre-honeyfarm hassler). However, in that case it isn't Thessalonic (because the loaf isn't).
To make "counting the loaf as a catalyst" less questionable, one would need to significantly reduce the time between destruction of the loaf and reconstruction of the loaf, so that it's present most of the time.

Re: What it is like to be a hassler?

Posted: April 9th, 2025, 6:09 am
by Citation needed
"Jolson (period 9)" can be seen as eight fishhooks hassling "Jolson". "Jolson" itself is a hassler.
Therefore, "Jolson (period 9)" could be a "hassler hassler".
Is that correct?

Re: What it is like to be a hassler?

Posted: April 9th, 2025, 6:31 am
by confocaloid
Can you post the actual pattern?

Re: What it is like to be a hassler?

Posted: April 9th, 2025, 6:35 am
by Citation needed

Code: Select all

x = 79, y = 44, rule = B3/S23
64b2o$61bo6bo$60bo8bo$63b4o$60b3o4b3o$53b2o6b2ob2ob2o6b2o$53b2o7b6o7b
2o$63b4o4$2o16b2o$bo7b2o7bo17b2o$bobo3bo4bo3bobo15bo4bo23b4o$2b2o2bo6b
o2b2o15bo6bo12b2o7b6o7b2o$5bo8bo17bo8bo11b2o6b2ob2ob2o6b2o$5bo8bo17bo
8bo18b3o4b3o$5bo8bo17bo8bo21b4o$2b2o2bo6bo2b2o15bo6bo19bo8bo$bobo3bo4b
o3bobo15bo4bo21bo6bo$bo7b2o7bo17b2o26b2o$2o16b2o$10b2o2b2o21b2o2b2o22b
2o2b2o$10b2o2b2o21b2o2b2o22b2o2b2o$2b2o16b2o$3bo16bo$3bobo12bobo$4b2o
12b2o43bob4obo$8b8o19b8o18b3o6b3o$8bob4obo19bob4obo17b2obob4obob2o$8b
8o19b8o12b2o3b2ob2o4b2ob2o3b2o$4b2o12b2o35b2o20b2o$3bobo12bobo$3bo16bo
41bobo4bobo$2b2o16b2o42bo4bo2$64bo4bo$62bobo4bobo2$55b2o20b2o$55b2o3b
2ob2o4b2ob2o3b2o$60b2obob4obob2o$61b3o6b3o$63bob4obo!

Re: What it is like to be a hassler?

Posted: April 9th, 2025, 6:43 am
by confocaloid
Citation needed wrote: April 9th, 2025, 6:35 am

Code: Select all

x = 79, y = 44, rule = B3/S23
64b2o$61bo6bo$60bo8bo$63b4o$60b3o4b3o$53b2o6b2ob2ob2o6b2o$53b2o7b6o7b
2o$63b4o4$2o16b2o$bo7b2o7bo17b2o$bobo3bo4bo3bobo15bo4bo23b4o$2b2o2bo6b
o2b2o15bo6bo12b2o7b6o7b2o$5bo8bo17bo8bo11b2o6b2ob2ob2o6b2o$5bo8bo17bo
8bo18b3o4b3o$5bo8bo17bo8bo21b4o$2b2o2bo6bo2b2o15bo6bo19bo8bo$bobo3bo4b
o3bobo15bo4bo21bo6bo$bo7b2o7bo17b2o26b2o$2o16b2o$10b2o2b2o21b2o2b2o22b
2o2b2o$10b2o2b2o21b2o2b2o22b2o2b2o$2b2o16b2o$3bo16bo$3bobo12bobo$4b2o
12b2o43bob4obo$8b8o19b8o18b3o6b3o$8bob4obo19bob4obo17b2obob4obob2o$8b
8o19b8o12b2o3b2ob2o4b2ob2o3b2o$4b2o12b2o35b2o20b2o$3bobo12bobo$3bo16bo
41bobo4bobo$2b2o16b2o42bo4bo2$64bo4bo$62bobo4bobo2$55b2o20b2o$55b2o3b
2ob2o4b2ob2o3b2o$60b2obob4obob2o$61b3o6b3o$63bob4obo!
Citation needed wrote: April 9th, 2025, 6:09 am [...] could be a "hassler hassler".
Is that correct?
Sort of. In such cases, one can choose which parts are considered to belong to the hassled evolutionary sequence (and the rest would do the hassling). I would expect that the "hassled part" can be removed, and that the "hassled part" would evolve differently by itself:

Code: Select all

x = 43, y = 54, rule = DoubleB3S23
2C16.2C$.C7.2C7.C17.2C$.C.C3.C4.C3.C.C15.C4.C$2.2C2.C6.C2.2C15.C6.C$
5.C8.C17.C8.C$5.C8.C17.C8.C$5.C8.C17.C8.C$2.2C2.C6.C2.2C15.C6.C$.C.C
3.C4.C3.C.C15.C4.C$.C7.2C7.C17.2C$2C16.2C$10.2A2.2A21.2A2.2A$10.2A2.
2A21.2A2.2A$2.2C16.2C$3.C16.C$3.C.C12.C.C$4.2C12.2C$8.8C19.8C$8.C.4C.
C19.C.4C.C$8.8C19.8C$4.2C12.2C$3.C.C12.C.C$3.C16.C$2.2C16.2C7$2C16.2C
$.C7.2A7.C17.2A$.C.C3.A4.A3.C.C15.A4.A$2.2C2.A6.A2.2C15.A6.A$5.A8.A
17.A8.A$5.A8.A17.A8.A$5.A8.A17.A8.A$2.2C2.A6.A2.2C15.A6.A$.C.C3.A4.A
3.C.C15.A4.A$.C7.2A7.C17.2A$2C16.2C$10.2A2.2A21.2A2.2A$10.2A2.2A21.2A
2.2A$2.2C16.2C$3.C16.C$3.C.C12.C.C$4.2C12.2C$8.8A19.8A$8.A.4A.A19.A.
4A.A$8.8A19.8A$4.2C12.2C$3.C.C12.C.C$3.C16.C$2.2C16.2C!
It is less clear how to deal with oscillators where several rotated/reflected copies of the same evolutionary sequence repeatedly interact (e.g. Gabriel's p138). I don't view such cases as "hassling"; I think the situation is different enough, so that such oscillators deserve to be listed in a separate category. ("Several objects supporting each other", or "several repeatedly interacting objects")

Re: What it is like to be a hassler?

Posted: April 13th, 2025, 9:02 am
by confocaloid
Several pages currently use the phrase "hassled region" (or variants of that):
https://conwaylife.com/w/index.php?sear ... arch&go=Go
Those phrases sound awkward to me. I think either of "hassled object", "hassled [evolutionary] sequence", "hassled reaction" would be significantly clearer than that.

(I think the word "region" would be clearer when it is used to refer to a specific region within the Life universe (regardless of what is going on in that region), as in "the selected region" or "the region marked with LifeHistory state 3 and state 4 cells".)

Crossposting earlier related post:
confocaloid wrote: March 11th, 2023, 4:47 pm When discussing conduits/hasslers, I think "active reaction" is a better way to convey the intended meaning.

Compare (the CGoLM&C book, 7.1.1 Conduit Terminology):
"...as the active reaction passes through the conduit.",
"Like an eater, a catalyst is not permanently affected by a passing active reaction"

My two issues with "active region" is that [...]

Re: What it is like to be a hassler?

Posted: April 13th, 2025, 9:44 am
by hotdogPi
I believe I started using the term "active region" as a descriptor without it being previously established, so I don't mind if it gets changed. That said, some people have followed my usage after I started using it.

It was never meant to be the only valid term. For example, the wiki page I created is called "list of common evolutionary sequences".

Re: What it is like to be a hassler?

Posted: April 13th, 2025, 9:46 am
by dvgrn
confocaloid wrote: April 13th, 2025, 9:02 am Several pages currently use the phrase "hassled region" (or variants of that):
https://conwaylife.com/w/index.php?sear ... arch&go=Go
Those phrases sound awkward to me. I think either of "hassled object", "hassled [evolutionary] sequence", "hassled reaction" would be significantly clearer than that.
Yeah, "hassled region" is slightly weird phrasing, and not all that commonly used I don't think. If nobody objects, it should be a fairly quick job to replace most instances of "region" with something else.

The search link above gives less than ten places where "hassled region" would need to be changed.

This does maybe bring up some questions about similar uses of "region", though, that don't show up in the search. I'm thinking especially the Iwona active region, where "region" is really not the right word for the same reasons. Does it make sense to rename that to "Iwona active reaction" -- or is it too late at this point for a named object like that?

Anyway, we can probably tackle "hassled region" uses separately. Right now I'm kind of thinking that it might be nice to use the full phrase "hassled active reaction" instead of "hassled region". Thoughts on that?

Of the other suggested choices, "hassled object" is tolerable, but it sounds kind of like something stationary is getting hassled. "Hassled sequence" is too short, because it's only the full phrase "evolutionary sequence" that has the right connotation.

Similarly, "hassled reaction" is really a reference to "active reaction", so it might be better to spell it out. The thing being hassled is active. We wouldn't be using even the current "hassled region" phrase for something like a bi-block hassler or beehive hassler, would we?

Re: What it is like to be a hassler?

Posted: April 13th, 2025, 11:34 am
by confocaloid
dvgrn wrote: April 13th, 2025, 9:46 am [...] -- or is it too late at this point for a named object like that? [...]
Regarding that point - it might be too early (no pun intended), because for that object there is a much shorter alternative name which might become common.

Re: What it is like to be a hassler?

Posted: June 2nd, 2025, 2:11 am
by Citation needed
Is this a "Hassler"?
Could this be seen as "Domino hassling 8-cell oscillator"?

Code: Select all

x = 3, y = 6, rule = ColourisedFireworld
GJ$2F$2F$LK2$.2F!
@RULE ColourisedFireworld
Newborn cell takes the color of its orthogonal parent.
@TABLE
n_states:26
neighborhood:Moore
symmetries:rotate4reflect
var a={0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,20,21,22,23,24,25}
var l={1,3,5,7,9,11,13,15,17,19,21,23,25}
var d={2,4,8,10,12,14,16,18,20,22,24}
var k={d,0}
var d0={d,0,6}
var a1=a
var a2=a
var a3=a
var a4=a
var a5=a
var a6=a
var a7=a
var a8=a
var l1=l
var l2=l
var l3=l
var b1=d0
var b2=d0
var b3=d0
var b4=d0
var b5=d0
var b6=d0
var b7=d0
var b8=d0
var k1=k
var k2=k
var k3=k
var k4=k
var k5=k
var k6=k
var k7=k
var k8=k
0,l,l1,b1,b2,b3,b4,b5,b6,l
0,l,b1,b2,l1,b3,b4,b5,b6,l
# Wire 2a
0,6,6,l,k1,k2,k3,k4,k5,l
0,6,6,k1,l,k2,k3,k4,k5,l
0,6,6,k1,k2,l,k3,k4,k5,l
0,6,6,k1,k2,k3,l,k4,k5,l
0,6,6,k1,k2,k3,k4,l,k5,l
0,6,6,k1,k2,k3,k4,k5,l,l
# Wire 2c
0,l,6,k1,6,k2,k3,k4,k5,l
0,k1,6,l,6,k2,k3,k4,k5,l
0,k1,6,k2,6,k3,l,k4,k5,l
0,k1,6,k2,6,k3,k4,l,k5,l
# Wire 2e
0,6,l,6,k1,k2,k3,k4,k5,l
0,6,k1,6,l,k2,k3,k4,k5,l
0,6,k1,6,k2,l,k3,k4,k5,l
0,6,k1,6,k2,k3,l,k4,k5,l
# Wire 2i
0,6,k1,k2,k3,6,k4,k5,l,l
0,6,k1,k2,k3,6,k4,l,k5,l
# Wire 2k
0,6,l,k1,6,k2,k3,k4,k5,l
0,6,k1,l,6,k2,k3,k4,k5,l
0,6,k1,k2,6,l,k3,k4,k5,l
0,6,k1,k2,6,k3,l,k4,k5,l
0,6,k1,k2,6,k3,k4,l,k5,l
0,6,k1,k2,6,k3,k4,k5,l,l
# Wire 2n
0,l,6,k1,k2,k3,6,k4,k5,l
0,k1,6,k2,l,k3,6,k4,k5,l
# Wire 3a
0,6,6,6,l,k1,k2,k3,k4,l
0,6,6,6,k1,l,k2,k3,k4,l
0,6,6,6,k1,k2,l,k3,k4,l
# Wire 3c
0,l,6,k1,6,k2,6,k3,k4,l
0,k1,6,l,6,k2,6,k3,k4,l
0,k1,6,k2,6,k3,6,k4,6,l
# Wire 3e
0,6,l,6,k1,6,k2,k3,k4,l
0,6,k1,6,k2,6,l,k3,k4,l
0,6,k1,6,k2,6,k3,l,k4,l
# Wire 3i
0,l,6,6,6,k1,k2,k3,k4,l
0,k1,6,6,6,k2,l,k3,k4,l
0,k1,6,6,6,k2,k3,l,k4,l
# Wire 3j
0,6,k1,6,k2,k3,k4,l,6,l
0,6,l,6,k1,k2,k3,k4,6,l
0,6,k1,6,l,k2,k3,k4,6,l
0,6,k1,6,k2,l,k3,k4,6,l
0,6,k1,6,k2,k3,l,k4,6,l
# Wire 3k
0,6,l,6,k1,k2,6,k3,k4,l
0,6,k1,6,l,k2,6,k3,k4,l
0,6,k1,6,k2,l,6,k3,k4,l
# Wire 3n
0,6,6,l,6,k1,k2,k3,k4,l
0,6,6,k1,6,l,k2,k3,k4,l
0,6,6,k1,6,k2,l,k3,k4,l
0,6,6,k1,6,k2,k3,l,k4,l
0,6,6,k1,6,k2,k3,k4,l,l
# Wire 3q
0,6,6,l,k1,k2,6,k3,k4,l
0,6,6,k1,l,k2,6,k3,k4,l
0,6,6,k1,k2,l,6,k3,k4,l
0,6,6,k1,k2,k3,6,l,k4,l
0,6,6,k1,k2,k3,6,k4,l,l
# Wire 3r
0,6,6,l,k1,6,k2,k3,k4,l
0,6,6,k1,l,6,k2,k3,k4,l
0,6,6,k1,k2,6,l,k3,k4,l
0,6,6,k1,k2,6,k3,l,k4,l
0,6,6,k1,k2,6,k3,k4,l,l
# Wire 3y
0,6,l,k1,6,k2,6,k3,k4,l
0,6,k1,l,6,k2,6,k3,k4,l
0,6,k1,k2,6,l,6,k3,k4,l
5,b1,b2,b3,b4,b5,b6,b7,b8,25
25,b1,b2,b3,b4,b5,b6,b7,b8,5
l,6,a1,a2,a3,a4,a5,a6,a7,2
l,a1,6,a2,a3,a4,a5,a6,a7,2
l,b1,b2,b3,b4,b5,b6,b7,b8,l
l,l1,l2,l3,b1,b2,b3,b4,b5,l
l,l1,b1,l2,l3,b2,b3,b4,b5,l
l,l1,b1,l2,b2,b3,l3,b4,b5,l
l,l1,l2,b1,b2,l3,b3,b4,b5,l
1,a1,a2,a3,a4,a5,a6,a7,a8,2
3,a1,a2,a3,a4,a5,a6,a7,a8,4
5,a1,a2,a3,a4,a5,a6,a7,a8,2
7,a1,a2,a3,a4,a5,a6,a7,a8,8
9,a1,a2,a3,a4,a5,a6,a7,a8,10
11,a1,a2,a3,a4,a5,a6,a7,a8,12
13,a1,a2,a3,a4,a5,a6,a7,a8,14
15,a1,a2,a3,a4,a5,a6,a7,a8,16
17,a1,a2,a3,a4,a5,a6,a7,a8,18
19,a1,a2,a3,a4,a5,a6,a7,a8,20
21,a1,a2,a3,a4,a5,a6,a7,a8,22
23,a1,a2,a3,a4,a5,a6,a7,a8,24
25,a1,a2,a3,a4,a5,a6,a7,a8,2
d,a1,a2,a3,a4,a5,a6,a7,a8,0
@NAMES
0 OFF
1 ON 1
2 DYING 1
3 ON 2
4 DYING 2
5 ON 3
6 WIRE
7 ON 4
8 DYING 4
9 ON 5
10 DYING 5
11 ON 6
12 DYING 6
13 ON 7
14 DYING 7
15 ON 8
16 DYING 8
17 ON 9
18 DYING 9
19 ON 10
20 DYING 10
21 ON 11
22 DYING 11
23 ON 12
24 DYING 12
25 ON 13
@COLORS
1    0  255    0  # standard ON (green)
2    0    0  160  # history state OFF (blue)
3  255  216  255  # marked ON with trail (pink)
4  255    0    0  # marked OFF with trail (red)
5  255  255    0  # marked ON alternate (yellow)
6   96   96   96  # boundary cell (dark gray)
7  255    0  255  # marked ON no-trail filter (magenta)
8  128    0  128  # marked OFF no-trail filter (purple)
9    0  191  255  # ON with trail alt#1 (deep sky blue)
10   0   64  128  # OFF trail alt#1 (dark cerulean)
11  64  224  208  # ON with trail (turquoise)
12   0  128   64  # OFF trail alt#2 (bluish green)
13 255  255  255  # ON no-trail #1 (white)
14 255   99   71  # OFF disappearing label (tomato)
15 250  128  114  # ON no-trail #2 (salmon)
16 219  112  147  # OFF vanishing label (pale violet red)
17 255  165    0  # ON no-trail #3 (orange)
18 245  222  179  # OFF cycling label #1 (wheat)
19   0  255  255  # ON no-trail #4 (cyan)
20 192  192  192  # OFF cycling label #2 (silver)
21 192  255  128  # ON no-trail #5 (yellow green)
22 255  182  193  # OFF cycling label #3 (light pink)
23   0  255  127  # ON no-trail #6 (brighter green)
24   1    1    1  # hidden label (stealthy near-black)
25 255    0  127  # ON no-trail #7 (red magenta)

Re: What it is like to be a hassler?

Posted: July 8th, 2025, 8:36 pm
by tommyaweosme
to be a hassler is a life of constant stress.

Take into consideration:
✩ you have to constantly move all of the time
✩ some hasslers even come close to death but fortunately survive, only to relive the same near-death experience over and over again
✩ and all of this just to stop some methuselah from evolving, even though numerous methuselahs get to evolve around you, teasing you with something that will never happen to your methuselah. you just have to sit there and stop it from evolving. sometimes, you wish you could just fade away for just a few moments, to let the methuselah evolve. then, you bet, you wouldn't have to go through this living nightmare anymore.

This inconsistency… WHAT?

Posted: July 20th, 2025, 1:21 pm
by hotcrystal0
Why are these three P21 honey farm hasslers considered to be “just different enough to be distinct”?

Code: Select all

x = 125, y = 40, rule = B3/S23
7b2o$6b4o$5bobob2o$5b2o3b2o$10bo$12bo$9b3o$8b2o2b2o$5b2o2b2o$7b3o57b2o
38b2o$6bo61bo2bo36bo2bo$8bo56b3o3b3o31b3o3b3o$7b2o3b2o50bo3b3o3bo29bo
3b3o3bo$8b2obobo50b2obo3b3o30b2obo3b3o$9b4o6b2o47b2obo36b2obo$10b2o7b
o3b2o38bob2obobo32bob2obobo$21bo2bo38b2ob2o35b2ob2o$20b2obo$20bo2b4o8b
o20b2o2b2o$10bobo7b3o3bo6b3o20bo2bobo8bobo7b2o28bobo7b2o$9bobob2o5bo2b
4o5bo24bobo9bobob2o6bo27bobob2o6bo$9bobo8b2obo2bo4bobo22b2obo9bobo9bo
b2o24bobo9bob2o$4b2o4bo5bo4bob2o2bo2b4o19bobo2bo11bo7b2ob2obo19b2o4bo
7b2ob2obo$3bobo10bo4bobobo2bo5b2o17b2ob2o21bo23bobo13bo$3bo18b2ob4obo
b2o2bo19bo22bo23bo15bo$2b2o20bo4b2obo2bo20bo21b2ob2o19b2o14b2ob2o$o2b
obob2o15bob2o5b2o16bob2ob2o7bo11bo2bobo17bo2bobob2o8bo2bobo$2o2b2obo15b
2obo24b2obo9bobo9bob2o20b2o2b2obo8bob2o$7bobo16bo27bo6b2obobo9bobo28b
obo6bobo$7b2obo15b2o26b2o7bobo8bobo2bo27b2obo3bobo2bo$10bo63b2o2b2o30b
o3b2o2b2o$10b2o98b2o$68b2ob2o$65bobob2obo$64bob2o$62b3o3bob2o$61bo3b3o
3bo$62b3o3b3o$64bo2bo$67b2o!
Yet the P52 HF hassler in the middle here is considered to be a reduction of the one on the left, despite being similarly different enough?

Code: Select all

x = 130, y = 38, rule = B3/S23
16b2o7b2o77b2o7b2o$16bo2b2ob2o2bo77bo2b2ob2o2bo$17b2obobob2o38b2o39b2o
bobob2o$18bo5bo39bo41bo5bo$18bo5bo36b2obo2b2o37bo5bo$19b5o36bo2bo4b3o
36b5o$20b3o38bo4bo4bo36b3o$11b2o7bobo30b2o3b3ob5ob3o28b2o7bobo$5b2o5b
o7b3o29bobo2bo2bobo5bo24b2o5bo7b3o$5bo3b3o8b3o29bobobobo6b3o25bo3b3o8b
3o$2b2obo2bo3b3o6bo26b2o3bobobo7bo10b2o12b2obo2bo3b3o6bo$2bo2bobobobo
2bo32bobo5bo6bo2bo4b2o5bo12bo2bobobobo2bo$5bobo3bobo4bobo25bo7bo2bo3b
o8bobob3o16bobo3bobo4bobo$4bobo10bo27bob2o5bo5bo5bo5bobo17bobo10bo9b2o
$bo2bob2o2b2o4bo5bo22bo3bo4bo3bobo5bo5bo16bo2bob2o2b2o4bo5bo4bo$ob3o6b
o2bobo5bo17bob2ob2obobo3bo5bo5bo4b2o15bob3o6bo2bobo5bo5bo$bobo3b5obo2b
o5bo7bo9b2obo3bo2bo3bo2bo3bo3bo9b2o12bobo3b5obo2bo5bo4b2o$2bobobo3bo6b
o3bo7bobo11bo6bob3o7b3o8bobo5b2o7bobobo3bo6bo3bo9b2o$3b2obob2o8b3o8bo
bo11b2o8b2o15b2obo8bo8b2obob2o8b3o8bobo5b2o$6bobo19b2obob2o14bobobo15b
o3bob3o2bobob2o8bobo17b2obo8bo$6bobo16b2o4bobobo14bo2b2o14bo5bobo2bob
2obo8bobo16bo3bob3o2bobob2o$7bo17b3ob2o3bobo16bo15bo3bo2bo3bo14bob2o14b
o5bobo2bob2obo$25bo2bo4b3obo13bobo15bo7b2obo12bobobo15bo3bo2bo3bo$25b
obo2b2obo2bo12b3obobo13bo2bo6bo13b2o2bo15bo7b2obo$25bo3bo3bo14bo5b2o14b
o5bobo18bobo13bo2bo6bo$24b2o3b2obo15b2o10bo7bobobo3b2o20b2o14bo5bobo$
16bo6bo3bo2bobo2bo22b3o6bobobobo30bo7bobobo3b2o$16bo6b3o3bo2bob2o21bo
5bobo2bo2bobo28b3o6bobobobo$15b3o8b3o3bo22b3ob5ob3o3b2o28bo5bobo2bo2b
obo$25bo5b2o21bo4bo4bo34b3ob5ob3o3b2o$25b2o28b3o4bo2bo32bo4bo4bo$57b2o
2bob2o34b3o4bo2bo$14b5o42bo39b2o2bob2o$13bob3obo40b2o43bo$13bobobobo84b
2o$12b2obobob2o$11bo2b2ob2o2bo$11b2o7b2o!
Edit: Here are the two P52s overlaid on top of each other, showing that the hassled part differs in evolution for long enough:

Code: Select all

x = 46, y = 38, rule = DoubleB3S23
20.2A7.2A$20.A2.2A.2A2.A$21.2A.A.A.2A$22.A.2B2.A$22.A.B3.A$21.2BAC2AC
B$20.B2.B3A.3B$15.2A4.B2.A.C4.B$9.2A2.2B.A.3B.2B3C.3B$9.A2.BACA.B2.B.
B.3A.B$6.2A.A2.C.B.CAC6.C2B$6.A.BC.A.C.C.BA6.B10.2B$7.B.C.A3.C.A4.C.A
B4.2B5.B$6.B.A.A3.B2.B3.C8.B.B.3B$5.C.BC.2A2.CA4.C5.C5.B.B$4.AB3AB4.B
A2.C.C5.C5.B$B.2B.CBAB.B3ACA.A2.C5.C4.2B.A$2B.B2.ABA.C3.C2.B3.C3.C7.A
.CB$3.B3.2A.C.2CB7.3C8.C.C5.2B$3.2B5.A.A2B15.2BAC.A.2A3.B$9.BABAB15.C
A2.B.CBC.AB.B.2B$10.BA.2B14.C2A.2AB.BA.C.2B.B$13.B15.C2.AB2.B3ABA$11.
B.B15.C.A2.2A.CB.C$9.3B.B.B13.C2.BA3.A.B$8.B5.2B12.2AB2.2A.C.B$8.2B10.
C6.AB.BAB.A.CB.A$18.2BC6.CAC.B.C2.A.2A$17.B.3A.B.B2.B.ACAB2.A$15.3B.5B
.3B.A.2B2.2A$14.B4.B4.B4.2A$15.3B4.B2.B$17.BC2ACA2B$17.A.2AC.A$17.A.A
BC.A$16.2A.A.A.2A$15.A2.2A.2A2.A$15.2A7.2A!
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