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Re: Endemic periodic patterns and still lifes
Posted: July 29th, 2022, 4:22 am
by confocaloid
Two 77-cell solutions based on the
p146 pi-heptomino hassler:
Code: Select all
#C p146 pi-heptomino hassler + DRH 3.2.1 (mini pressure cooker)
x = 39, y = 26, rule = B3/S23
33bo$32bobo$32bobo$31b2ob2o$30bo5bobo$31bobobob2o$29bobo3bo$13bo13b3ob
obobo$2o10b3o11bo5bobo$bo24b2o5bo$bobo10bo$2b2o7bo2bo$11b3o5$4b2o$5bo$
2b3o$2bo2$8b2o3bo5bo3bo$8b2o2bobo3b2o3b2o$13b2o3b2o3b2o$18bo5bo!
Code: Select all
#C p146 pi-heptomino hassler + DRH 4.16.1
x = 44, y = 22, rule = B3/S23
5b2o3b2o$7bobo$8bo34bo$2bo3b2ob2o3bo12bo13b3o$bob2o2bobo2b2obo10b3o11b
o$bo5bobo5bo24b2o$2o6bo6bobo10bo$16b2o7bo2bo$25b3o5$18b2o$19bo$16b3o$
16bo2$22b2o3bo5bo3bo$22b2o2bobo3b2o3b2o$27b2o3b2o3b2o$32bo5bo!
Re: Endemic periodic patterns and still lifes
Posted: July 29th, 2022, 4:36 am
by iNoMed
I believe this 66-cell p146 Pi hassler variant eliminates S4c from the equation, not sure if it's
actually endemic though:
Code: Select all
x = 24, y = 32, rule = B3/S23
2bo$2b3o$5bo7b2o$4b2o7bo$11bobo$11b2o3$16b2o$16b2o2$5b2o$2bo3bo10bo$b
2o3bo9bobo$2bob2o11b2o8$22b2o$18b2obobo$18b2obo$22bo$2b2o14b2ob2o$bobo
15bobo$bo11b2o4bobo$2o11bo6bo$14b3o$16bo!
Re: Endemic periodic patterns and still lifes
Posted: July 29th, 2022, 5:06 am
by confocaloid
iNoMed wrote: July 29th, 2022, 4:36 am
I believe this 66-cell p146 Pi hassler variant eliminates S4c from the equation, not sure if it's
actually endemic though:
Code: Select all
x = 24, y = 32, rule = B3/S23
2bo$2b3o$5bo7b2o$4b2o7bo$11bobo$11b2o3$16b2o$16b2o2$5b2o$2bo3bo10bo$b
2o3bo9bobo$2bob2o11b2o8$22b2o$18b2obobo$18b2obo$22bo$2b2o14b2ob2o$bobo
15bobo$bo11b2o4bobo$2o11bo6bo$14b3o$16bo!
I think yes -
this script says it is endemic.
Edit:
pzq_alex wrote: July 29th, 2022, 7:36 am
Notice that this is (roughly) equivalent to a set covering problem, where each object “covers” a certain set of transitions and costs a certain number of cells, and we want to minimize the cost (number of cells).
At least before getting sufficiently close to an optimal solution, where one cell may belong to two or more recognizable sub-objects at once, and a single high-period object may "cover" most or all of the 102 isotropic 3-by-3 conditions.
edit 2024-11: fixed previously incorrect terminology and reworded.
Re: Endemic periodic patterns and still lifes
Posted: July 29th, 2022, 7:36 am
by pzq_alex
Notice that this is (roughly) equivalent to a set covering problem, where each object “covers” a certain set of transitions and costs a certain number of cells, and we want to minimize the cost (number of cells).
confocaloid wrote: July 29th, 2022, 5:06 am
Edit:
pzq_alex wrote: July 29th, 2022, 7:36 am
Notice that this is (roughly) equivalent to a set covering problem, where each object “covers” a certain set of transitions and costs a certain number of cells, and we want to minimize the cost (number of cells).
At least before getting sufficiently close to an optimal solution where one cell may belong to two or more recognizable sub-objects at once and a single high-period evolutionary sequence may cover most transitions.
Yes, I agree that it is not exactly equivalent.
Re: Endemic periodic patterns and still lifes
Posted: September 13th, 2022, 7:10 pm
by carsoncheng
Crossposting from Discord from over a month ago:
65-cell p2070 endemic pattern (p45 pi hassler on Gabriel's p138):
Code: Select all
x = 43, y = 49, rule = B3/S23
9b2o$9b3o$9b2o3$8b3o$3o5b3o$3o4bobo$bo7b2o$bo7b2o$bo6b3o$obo5bob2o$8b
3o4b2o$8bobo4b2o$obo6b2o$bo6b2o$bo7bo19bo$bo6b3o18bo2bo$3o$3o26bo3bo$
30bobo$6bo5b2o15b3o$5bobo3bo13bo2b2o$5b2o5b2o10bo3b2o$23b3o$13bo$11bo
2bo10b2obo$15bo10b2obo$14b2o9bo2b2o$10b2obob3o3b3o4b2o4bo$16b2o2bob2o
3bo6b2o$21bo2bo5bobobobo$20b2o9b2o$16bobobobo5bo2bo$17b2o6bo3b2obo2b2o
$18bo4b2o4b3o3b3obob2o$23b2o2bo9b2o$23bob2o10bo$24bob2o10bo2bo$39bo$
27b3o$23b2o3bo$23b2o2bo$21b3o$20bobo$19bo3bo2$20bo2bo$23bo!
Note that it still works as a p2070 oscillator in b3s234c, although the p138 has a slightly different evolutionary sequence.
Re: Endemic periodic patterns and still lifes
Posted: September 14th, 2022, 12:59 am
by Inferno
61-cell pattern endemic to B3/S23, which contains a p129 r-pentomino hassler with an unnamed p2 oscillator which disallows S4c.
Code: Select all
x = 65, y = 35, rule = B3/S23
46b2o$43b2o2bo$42bo2b2o$42b2o$46b3o$42b2obo2bo$26bo14bobobobo$24b3o15b
o3bo$23bo$23b2o$2o$bo$bobo$2b2o2$20b2o$19b2o$20bo6$44bo$44b2o$43b2o2$
61b2o$61bobo$63bo$63b2o$40b2o$41bo$38b3o$38bo!
Re: Endemic periodic patterns and still lifes
Posted: September 14th, 2022, 2:15 am
by carsoncheng
Inferno wrote: September 14th, 2022, 12:59 am
61-cell pattern endemic to B3/S23, which contains a p129 r-pentomino hassler with an unnamed p2 oscillator which disallows S4c.
Code: Select all
x = 65, y = 35, rule = B3/S23
46b2o$43b2o2bo$42bo2b2o$42b2o$46b3o$42b2obo2bo$26bo14bobobobo$24b3o15b
o3bo$23bo$23b2o$2o$bo$bobo$2b2o2$20b2o$19b2o$20bo6$44bo$44b2o$43b2o2$
61b2o$61bobo$63bo$63b2o$40b2o$41bo$38b3o$38bo!
3-cell reduction by welding the two oscillators, making the minpop 58:
Code: Select all
x = 71, y = 31, rule = B3/S23
26bo$24b3o$23bo$23b2o$2o$bo$bobo$2b2o2$20b2o$19b2o$20bo6$44bo$44b2o$43b
2o2$61b2o$61bobo$63bo4bo$63bobobobo$40b2o22b2obo2bo$41bo26b3o$38b3o23b
2o$38bo25bo2b2o$65b2o2bo$68b2o!
Re: Endemic periodic patterns and still lifes
Posted: September 15th, 2022, 5:56 pm
by AbhpzTa
carsoncheng wrote: September 14th, 2022, 2:15 amInferno wrote: September 14th, 2022, 12:59 am61-cell pattern endemic to B3/S23, which contains a p129 r-pentomino hassler with an unnamed p2 oscillator which disallows S4c.
Code: Select all
x = 65, y = 35, rule = B3/S23
46b2o$43b2o2bo$42bo2b2o$42b2o$46b3o$42b2obo2bo$26bo14bobobobo$24b3o15b
o3bo$23bo$23b2o$2o$bo$bobo$2b2o2$20b2o$19b2o$20bo6$44bo$44b2o$43b2o2$
61b2o$61bobo$63bo$63b2o$40b2o$41bo$38b3o$38bo!
3-cell reduction by welding the two oscillators, making the minpop 58:
Code: Select all
x = 71, y = 31, rule = B3/S23
26bo$24b3o$23bo$23b2o$2o$bo$bobo$2b2o2$20b2o$19b2o$20bo6$44bo$44b2o$43b
2o2$61b2o$61bobo$63bo4bo$63bobobobo$40b2o22b2obo2bo$41bo26b3o$38b3o23b
2o$38bo25bo2b2o$65b2o2bo$68b2o!
Minpop 56:
Code: Select all
x = 68, y = 31, rule = B3/S23
26bo$24b3o$23bo$23b2o$2o$bo$bobo$2b2o2$20b2o$19b2o$20bo6$44bo$44b2o$
43b2o2$61b2o$61bobo$63bo2b2o$63bobobo$40b2o19b2o2bo$41bo18bo5bo$38b3o
20b2obobo$38bo23bob2o$62bo$61b2o!
Re: Endemic periodic patterns and still lifes
Posted: September 11th, 2023, 1:57 pm
by LaundryPizza03
Cross-posting from discord a 94-cell endemic still life found by AlbertArmStain on August 23:
Code: Select all
x = 24, y = 12, rule = B/S012345678
8bo$4bobo5bobobo3bo$3b2obo4bo3bo6bo$4bobobobobobob2o2b2o$2b3o2b2o6b2o
2b2o2bo$6b7o2bobo2b2obo$3bob2ob3o4bo2bob2o$13obob2o2b2o$3bo2bob2obobob
o6bo$b2o3b2o2bob2obo$bo3bo$2o2bo!
Re: Endemic periodic patterns and still lifes
Posted: September 11th, 2023, 2:16 pm
by confocaloid
BTW the same pattern was previously posted in another thread
LaundryPizza03 wrote: September 11th, 2023, 1:57 pm
Cross-posting from discord a 94-cell endemic still life found by AlbertArmStain on August 23:
Code: Select all
x = 24, y = 12, rule = B/S012345678
8bo$4bobo5bobobo3bo$3b2obo4bo3bo6bo$4bobobobobobob2o2b2o$2b3o2b2o6b2o
2b2o2bo$6b7o2bobo2b2obo$3bob2ob3o4bo2bob2o$13obob2o2b2o$3bo2bob2obobob
o6bo$b2o3b2o2bob2obo$bo3bo$2o2bo!
yujh wrote: August 22nd, 2023, 11:02 pm
yujh wrote: May 22nd, 2022, 9:21 am
122
some slight reductions to that:
Code: Select all
x = 24, y = 12, rule = B/S012345678
8bo$4bobo5bobobo3bo$3b2obo4bo3bo6bo$4bobobobobobob2o2b2o$2b3o2b2o6b2o2b2o2bo$
6b7o2bobo2b2obo$3bob2ob3o4bo2bob2o$13obob2o2b2o$3bo2bob2obobobo6bo$b2o3b2o2bo
b2obo$bo3bo$2o2bo!
Re: Endemic periodic patterns and still lifes
Posted: December 23rd, 2023, 6:47 pm
by NimbleRogue
What is the endemic periodic pattern with the lowest score, where the score is the sum of the total cells on for every generation of it's cycle?
For example just to be crystal clear with the counting, this pattern from life(I know it's non endemic) would get a score of 18+14+20+18+26+18+16+12=142
Code: Select all
x = 6, y = 6, rule = B3/S23
3o$3o$3o$3b3o$3b3o$3b3o!
For right now I think the answer is this
Code: Select all
x = 24, y = 12, rule = B/S012345678
8bo$4bobo5bobobo3bo$3b2obo4bo3bo6bo$4bobobobobobob2o2b2o$2b3o2b2o6b2o
2b2o2bo$6b7o2bobo2b2obo$3bob2ob3o4bo2bob2o$13obob2o2b2o$3bo2bob2obobob
o6bo$b2o3b2o2bob2obo$bo3bo$2o2bo!
Also becuase It seems likly that still lifes will always beat out oscillators I have a diffrent question. what is the endemic pattern, with a volatility of one, that has the lowest score?
Edit: I also reduced the still life's size to 89
Code: Select all
x = 22, y = 12, rule = B/S012345678
bobobo$3b3o$2bobo5bobobo$b2obo4bo3bo$2bobobobobobob2o$3o2b2o6b2o2b2o2b
o$o3b7o2bobo2b2obo$bob2ob3o4bo2bob2o$11obob2o2b2o$bo2bob2obobobo6bo$4b
2o2bob2obo3bo$3bo!
Re: Endemic periodic patterns and still lifes
Posted: December 26th, 2023, 5:28 pm
by toroidalet
77-cell endemic pattern in B/S012345678:
Code: Select all
x = 14, y = 16, rule = B/S012345678
5bo$4bo$3b4o$4bobobo2bo$3obobo5bo$obo2bobo2bo2bo$2b3obo5b2o$obob3o4b2o
$ob3ob3ob3o$2b4obo2b2o$2b5ob2o$bobo5bo$obob3ob2o$8b3o$2b2o5bo$2b2o!
NimbleRogue wrote: December 23rd, 2023, 6:47 pm
What is the endemic periodic pattern with the lowest score, where the score is the sum of the total cells on for every generation of it's cycle?
This p129 has a score of 12,363:
Code: Select all
x = 73, y = 30, rule = B3/S23
26bo$24b3o$23bo$23b2o$2o$bo$bobo$2b2o2$20b2o$19b2o$20bo6$44bo$44b2o$
43b2o$67bo$61b2o3bobo$61bobobobobo$63bobo3bo$63bobobobob2o$40b2o22bo5b
obo$41bo23b2ob2o$38b3o25bobo$38bo27bobo$67bo!
It seems that this other scoring method is essentially a quest to find the endemic oscillator of the lowest period; a low-period oscillator with an average population of ~1000 would be considerably better.
Re: Endemic periodic patterns and still lifes
Posted: August 23rd, 2025, 10:40 am
by NooneAtAll3
can p2 pattern be endemic?
what's the minpop for p2 life-endemic pattern?
Re: Endemic periodic patterns and still lifes
Posted: August 23rd, 2025, 11:31 am
by hotdogPi
In the 2024 newjslife stamp collection (
https://github.com/carson-cheng/newjslife/tree/main), which contains everything that's been posted on the forum until mid-2024, all p2 oscillators work with S8. I can't quite find a simple proof that p2 oscillators in Life can't fail with S8, but given how many are in that collection, I believe it to be the case. (The converse is not true; there are some B3/S238 p2s that fail in Life.)
Re: Endemic periodic patterns and still lifes
Posted: August 23rd, 2025, 11:54 am
by vilc
hotdogPi wrote: August 23rd, 2025, 11:31 am
In the 2024 newjslife stamp collection (
https://github.com/carson-cheng/newjslife/tree/main), which contains everything that's been posted on the forum until mid-2024, all p2 oscillators work with S8. I can't quite find a simple proof that p2 oscillators in Life can't fail with S8, but given how many are in that collection, I believe it to be the case. (The converse is not true; there are some B3/S238 p2s that fail in Life.)
Here is an example of a p2 oscillator which triggers the S8 transition, found with LLS.
Code:
Select all
x = 14, y = 12, rule = B3/S23
4bo4bo$3bob2obobob2o$3bob3o2bobo$2obo6bobo$obo3b3o3b2o$2bobob3o2bo$bob
2ob4obo$bo7bobobo$2b4o6b2o$obo2b4o$2o3b2o$5bo!
Re: Endemic periodic patterns and still lifes
Posted: August 23rd, 2025, 12:30 pm
by rabbit
vilc wrote: August 23rd, 2025, 11:54 am
Here is an example of a p2 oscillator which triggers the S8 transition, found with LLS.
Searching for a 13x13 pattern centered around the 3x3 live box yielded 0 results with RLS, so this may be one of the smallest examples.
Re: Endemic periodic patterns and still lifes
Posted: August 23rd, 2025, 12:37 pm
by Resu
NooneAtAll3 wrote: August 23rd, 2025, 10:40 am
what's the minpop for p2 life-endemic pattern?
What about p3 patterns?
Re: Endemic periodic patterns and still lifes
Posted: January 16th, 2026, 12:17 am
by Hdjensofjfnen
rabbit wrote: August 23rd, 2025, 12:30 pm
vilc wrote: August 23rd, 2025, 11:54 am
Here is an example of a p2 oscillator which triggers the S8 transition, found with LLS.
Searching for a 13x13 pattern centered around the 3x3 live box yielded 0 results with RLS, so this may be one of the smallest examples.
A bit more searching with LLS confirms that this is the minimum-population p2 (in generation 0) that triggers S8 and fits inside a 17x17 box.
Re: Endemic periodic patterns and still lifes
Posted: January 16th, 2026, 10:51 pm
by whatislife
Inspired by the S8 oscillator above, I searched for a small p2 oscillator triggering S7e:
Code: Select all
x = 11, y = 12, rule = B3/S23
3b2ob2o$2bobobo$2bobo2b3o$b2obo5bo$o4bob4o$b3ob3o$2bo2b4o$2bo6bo$b3obo
$o4b4o$2o3b2o$5bo!
and S7c:
Code: Select all
x = 13, y = 12, rule = B3/S23
7b2ob2o$6bobobo$5bobo4bo$4bob3o2b2o$3bo2bobobo$2bo5bobo$bob2ob2obo$obo
bo2b2o$b2ob2obo$3bobo$3bo4bo$2b2o3b2o!
They are not proven to be minimal, but those are the only rotors I could get out of RLS at 12x12 and 13x13 respectively.
Re: Endemic periodic patterns and still lifes
Posted: January 17th, 2026, 12:49 pm
by ElijahKen
whatislife wrote: January 16th, 2026, 10:51 pm
...
and S7c:
Code: Select all
x = 13, y = 12, rule = B3/S23
7b2ob2o$6bobobo$5bobo4bo$4bob3o2b2o$3bo2bobobo$2bo5bobo$bob2ob2obo$obo
bo2b2o$b2ob2obo$3bobo$3bo4bo$2b2o3b2o!
They are not proven to be minimal, but those are the only rotors I could get out of RLS at 12x12 and 13x13 respectively.
Reduced by two cells:
Code:
Select all
x = 12, y = 13, rule = B3/S23
7bo$6bobo$5bo2bo2bo$4bo4b3o$3bob2o$2bob3ob2o$bo2b3o2bo$o7bob2o$b2ob2o
2bob2o$3b2obo$b2o2bo$bo2bo$2b2o!
Edit: Prettified RLE.
EDIT 2:
Reduced the other (S7e) example by 3 cells (49 & 49 -> 48 & 46):
Code:
Select all
x = 12, y = 13, rule = B3/S23
6bo2b2o$4b3o2bo$3bo7bo$3bob2ob4o$4bob3o$6b4o$4bo5bo$3bo2bo$b2o3b4o$4ob
2o$3bobobo$3bo2b2o$2b2o!
Re: Endemic periodic patterns and still lifes
Posted: March 25th, 2026, 11:45 pm
by WhiteHawk
Unsynthesizable oscillator 1 has B8, but is massive. What is the smallest p2 oscillator that triggers B8 in life? (Pedestrian Life has a very small p2 which uses B8)
Also I guess given the S7 and S8 oscillators above, what is the answer to the question of the smallest endemic P2 oscillator?
Re: Endemic periodic patterns and still lifes
Posted: March 26th, 2026, 9:06 am
by ElijahKen
WhiteHawk wrote: March 25th, 2026, 11:45 pm
Unsynthesizable oscillator 1 has B8, but is massive. What is the smallest p2 oscillator that triggers B8 in life? (Pedestrian Life has a very small p2 which uses B8)
Here is a smallish one (found just now with lls and jls):
Code:
Select all
x = 11, y = 15, rule = B3/S23
4b2o$4bobob2o$b2obob2obo$o2bo$2o4b3o$4b3o2bo$2ob2ob2o2bo$o3b3o2b2o$b4o
$7bo$ob2ob2o$2ob3o$6b3o$5bo2bo$6b2o!
EDIT:
S7e reduced by two cells to 46 cells:
Code:
Select all
x = 11, y = 12, rule = B3/S23
b2o3bob2o$bobo2b2obo$3bo$bo2bob3o$b2ob3o2bo$4b4o2bo$6bo2b2o$2b2o$bob4o
$obo2bo$obo4bo$bo4b2o!
B8 reduced to 43 cells:
Code:
Select all
x = 12, y = 13, rule = B3/S23
2o5b2o$bo4bo2bo$bob2o$2bo2b3obo$5bobobo$2bo2b3o2bo$2b2obo$5bob2obo$5b
o2b2obo$6b2o2b2o$8bo$5bobo$5b2o!
Re: Endemic not periodic patterns and not still lifes
Posted: May 12th, 2026, 5:00 pm
by synperiplanar
NimbleRogue wrote: December 23rd, 2023, 6:47 pm
What is the endemic periodic pattern with the lowest score, where the score is the sum of the total cells on for every generation of it's cycle?
i think it would be interesting to extend this question to non-oscillating patterns. this means that every generation up until the last isotropic transition is ruled out would count toward the score. so let's say the B-heptomino somehow ruled out its last transition at generation 15, this would be 7+8+10+12+14+18+16+19+23+19+22+21+22+21+15+20=267 score.
Code: Select all
x = 3, y = 4, rule = B3/S23
o$2o$b2o$2o!
it's definitely more interesting when you research on a fundamental standpoint rather than just searching a specific type of pattern for no reason at all.