Page 6 of 20
Re: Soup search results in rules other than Conway's Life
Posted: September 14th, 2016, 8:59 am
by praosylen
This is my new favorite spaceship:
Code: Select all
x = 16, y = 16, rule = B2-aci3ei4z/S23-e6
bobooboobbbboobo$
bbbooboobbooobbb$
ooooobobobbooooo$
bbbbboboboooboob$
bbobooobbboobobb$
oobbbbobbbbobbob$
bobooobooboobooo$
obooooboooboobbb$
bobobobbobbbbooo$
bbbobobobboboobo$
oooboooobobboobb$
bboobbbobobooobb$
ooobbobbooobbobo$
obbbbbboobbbbbbb$
boboooobbooboobb$
obbbbbbboobbobob!
Re: Soup search results in rules other than Conway's Life
Posted: September 15th, 2016, 7:52 pm
by apg
A for Awesome wrote:This is my new favorite spaceship:
...and you didn't even mention the best thing about this spaceship!
Code: Select all
x = 76, y = 16, rule = B2-aci3ei4z/S23-e6
bob2ob2o4b2obo44bob2o4b2ob2obo$3b2ob2o2b3o50b3o2b2ob2o$5obobo2b5o44b5o
2bobob5o$5bobob3ob2o46b2ob3obobo$2bob3o3b2obo48bob2o3b3obo$2o4bo4bo2bo
46bo2bo4bo4b2o$bob3ob2ob2ob3o44b3ob2ob2ob3obo$ob4ob3ob2o50b2ob3ob4obo$
bobobo2bo4b3o44b3o4bo2bobobo$3bobobo2bob2obo44bob2obo2bobobo$3ob4obo2b
2o48b2o2bob4ob3o$2b2o3bobob3o48b3obobo3b2o$3o2bo2b3o2bobo44bobo2b3o2bo
2b3o$o6b2o58b2o6bo$bob4o2b2ob2o48b2ob2o2b4obo$o7b2o2bobo46bobo2b2o7bo!
Re: Soup search results in rules other than Conway's Life
Posted: September 15th, 2016, 10:13 pm
by praosylen
calcyman wrote:A for Awesome wrote:This is my new favorite spaceship:
...and you didn't even mention the best thing about this spaceship!
Wow. That's all I have to say.
Re: Soup search results in rules other than Conway's Life
Posted: September 15th, 2016, 11:47 pm
by wildmyron
I couldn't resist...
Code: Select all
x = 37, y = 35, rule = B2ekn3ei4z/S23-e6:T40,40
5$4bo10bo8bo10bo2$5bo8bo10bo8bo$3b3o8b3o6b3o8b3o3$3b3o8b3o6b3o8b3o$5bo
8bo10bo8bo2$4bo10bo8bo10bo11$4bo10bo8bo10bo2$5bo8bo10bo8bo$3b3o8b3o6b
3o8b3o3$3b3o8b3o6b3o8b3o$5bo8bo10bo8bo2$4bo10bo8bo10bo!
Edit:
Adding B3r to the above rule retains many of the common patterns but results in a more dynamic rule. Here's a p17 quad gun (from soup - unfortunately not uploaded to Catagolue).
Code: Select all
x = 8, y = 8, rule = B2ekn3eir4z_S23-e6
3bo$bo2bo2$o5bo$bo5bo2$3bo2bo$4bo!
Re: Soup search results in rules other than Conway's Life
Posted: October 12th, 2016, 7:14 pm
by Apple Bottom
Nice
xp20 that showed up in B38/S238/D4_+4:
Code: Select all
x = 32, y = 32, rule = B38/S238
oooobobbbobobbboobbbobobbboboooo$
obooboobbbobobobbobobobbbooboobo$
bbbbooobooooboobbooboooobooobbbb$
ooobbboobbobobobbobobobboobbbooo$
boboboboobbobboooobbobboobobobob$
oobbbobbbbooobboobbooobbbbobbboo$
booboooobbboobbbbbboobbbooooboob$
obbbbobbobboobbbbbboobbobbobbbbo$
obbobooobboobbobbobboobbooobobbo$
ooobobooobbbobbbbbbobbbooobobooo$
ooobobboooboooboobooobooobbobooo$
booobobbbbboboobboobobbbbbobooob$
bbbobbbbooboboobbooboboobbbbobbb$
booobbobboobbbboobbbboobbobbooob$
bobbbobbobbobbobbobbobbobbobbbob$
obooooobooobobboobbobooobooooobo$
obooooobooobobboobbobooobooooobo$
bobbbobbobbobbobbobbobbobbobbbob$
booobbobboobbbboobbbboobbobbooob$
bbbobbbbooboboobbooboboobbbbobbb$
booobobbbbboboobboobobbbbbobooob$
ooobobboooboooboobooobooobbobooo$
ooobobooobbbobbbbbbobbbooobobooo$
obbobooobboobbobbobboobbooobobbo$
obbbbobbobboobbbbbboobbobbobbbbo$
booboooobbboobbbbbboobbbooooboob$
oobbbobbbbooobboobbooobbbbobbboo$
boboboboobbobboooobbobboobobobob$
ooobbboobbobobobbobobobboobbbooo$
bbbbooobooooboobbooboooobooobbbb$
obooboobbbobobobbobobobbbooboobo$
oooobobbbobobbboobbbobobbboboooo!
Doesn't work in Conway Life (or any rule without S8) unfortunately.
Re: Soup search results in rules other than Conway's Life
Posted: October 18th, 2016, 6:09 am
by Apple Bottom
First linear-growth pattern in B38/S238 (in Catagolue anyway), and also the first occurrence of the pufferfish in a rule other than B3/S23 (again, in Catagolue):
Code: Select all
x = 32, y = 31, rule = B38/S238
oboboobbbboobobooboboobbbboobobo$
ooooboobboooobooooboooobbooboooo$
bbbbobobooobboooooobbooobobobbbb$
bbbbbboboboboobbbboobobobobbbbbb$
bobbbbboooboobooooboobooobbbbbob$
oobbobbbooobooobbooobooobbbobboo$
bboobbbbboobooboobooboobbbbboobb$
boobooooooooooobboooooooooooboob$
oooboboooooooobbbboooooooobobooo$
bbbbbobbobbboobooboobbbobbobbbbb$
obboooobobooobbbbbboooboboooobbo$
obobooobbbbboobbbboobbbbbooobobo$
bobbbbboooboooboobooobooobbbbbob$
bbbobbbbobbboooooooobbbobbbbobbb$
oboobobboooobooooooboooobboboobo$
booboobbobbobbbbbbbbobbobbooboob$
oboobobboooobooooooboooobboboobo$
bbbobbbbobbboooooooobbbobbbbobbb$
bobbbbboooboooboobooobooobbbbbob$
obobooobbbbboobbbboobbbbbooobobo$
obboooobobooobbbbbboooboboooobbo$
bbbbbobbobbboobooboobbbobbobbbbb$
oooboboooooooobbbboooooooobobooo$
boobooooooooooobboooooooooooboob$
bboobbbbboobooboobooboobbbbboobb$
oobbobbbooobooobbooobooobbbobboo$
bobbbbboooboobooooboobooobbbbbob$
bbbbbboboboboobbbboobobobobbbbbb$
bbbbobobooobboooooobbooobobobbbb$
ooooboobboooobooooboooobbooboooo$
oboboobbbboobobooboboobbbboobobo!
Re: Soup search results in rules other than Conway's Life
Posted: October 27th, 2016, 3:25 pm
by Apple Bottom
dsmiller wrote:A new oblique spaceship has appeared in a C1 soup for the rule B38/S23.
It travels at a rate of (5,2)c/190 and has a minimum population of 33 cells.
There's now a
period-380 variant of this ship as well that alternately leaves and deletes a blinker:
Code: Select all
x = 22, y = 39, rule = B38/S23
10bo2bo8b$9bo3bo8b$9bo12b$10bo11b$22b$22b$13b2o7b$13b2o7b$13bo8b$11b3o8b$
22b$22b$22b$22b$22b$22b$22b$22b$22b$22b$2o20b$2o20b$22b$22b$22b$5bo16b$
5b2o15b$7bo14b$3bob2o15b$3b3o16b$22b$22b$22b$22b$22b$22b$19b2ob$19bobo$
20bob!
Soup:
Code: Select all
x = 16, y = 16, rule = B38/S23
oooobooobbboboob$
bboooobbbobbooob$
oooboooooboooobo$
oobbobbboboobobb$
oobbbboobboooooo$
oboooboobbobbboo$
boboobobbbboobob$
bbooobbooobbbbbo$
obooooobbbboobbo$
bobbbbbbbbbbobob$
obbobobbbobobbob$
booooooobbobbobb$
boobooobobbobobo$
obobbobboobobobo$
obbobbooboobbobo$
bbobobbbbbbboboo!
Haul:
here.
Re: Soup search results in rules other than Conway's Life
Posted: November 1st, 2016, 5:15 pm
by praosylen
42-cell SL in B38/S23:
Code: Select all
x = 16, y = 16, rule = B38/S23
obbbbooobbbobobo$
obboobooboboboob$
ooobobbbbboooobo$
bbbbobobobbobbbb$
booobooobooboobb$
boobbbbooobbobbb$
bobobboobbbbobob$
obobboobobbooobo$
booooobbbbbbbobb$
obbbobobooobboob$
booobbbooobboobo$
ooboboooboboooob$
bobbobbobbbbobob$
booobobbbbobobbo$
booobbbbbboboobb$
bobbobboooobbobo!
Re: Soup search results in rules other than Conway's Life
Posted: November 9th, 2016, 7:24 am
by Apple Bottom
Replicator-based period 96 oscillator in HighLife (B36/S23):
Code: Select all
x = 35, y = 19, rule = B36/S23
2o33b$2o10bo22b$11b2o22b$10bobo22b$9b3o23b$35b$15b3o17b$14bobo18b$14b2o19b$
14bo20b$35b$35b$35b$35b$35b$35b$35b$33b2o$33b2o!
Soup:
Code: Select all
x = 16, y = 16, rule = B36/S23
bbobbbbbbbbooooo$
bboboboobbobboob$
oobobboobooobobo$
bobooooobooboooo$
obooobooboobbobb$
bbboobbbbboooooo$
boooboobooobobbo$
bbbbobooooooboob$
bboobbbooobobbbb$
obobboobbobboobo$
bboobooboobboobo$
oobbobbobobboooo$
oooooooooooobbob$
ooooobbobbbobbob$
boboobobobobbbbo$
bbbboobooobobbbo!
Haul:
here.
Re: Soup search results in rules other than Conway's Life
Posted: November 9th, 2016, 11:50 am
by apg
(101, 3)c/1884 puffer in b38s23/C1:
Code: Select all
x = 16, y = 16, rule = B38/S23
bob4o2b2o2bo$2b3ob3ob6o$2b4ob4o4bo$bo2bo4b3o2bo$2obob3o2b2o2bo$o8b2o2b
obo$3ob2ob4ob2o$2o2b3o5bo$2o7b2ob2o$ob5o3b6o$5bo3b6o$2b2ob2ob3ob3o$ob
2obo2b3obo$bob3ob2o2bo$3o2bob4obobo$b4o3b6o!
In fact, this is the fifth independent high-period natural infinite growth mechanism in B38/S23 (the others being the orthogonal puffer, the diagonal puffer, the (5,2)c/190 blinker puffer, and the rotating gun).
Re: Soup search results in rules other than Conway's Life
Posted: November 10th, 2016, 7:58 am
by Scorbie
calcyman wrote:
(101, 3)c/1884 puffer in b38s23/C1:
What the...! Here's the unstable engine, two of which making the puffer. (check after 1884 gens)
Code: Select all
x = 19, y = 13, rule = B38/S23
9b2o$9bobo$10b2o2$16b3o$16bo$17bo5$2o$2o!
This should have been found by sngdetect easily. I wonder what other engines are hiding in other rules (or maybe Life?)
Re: Soup search results in rules other than Conway's Life
Posted: November 10th, 2016, 9:24 pm
by praosylen
A genuine reflectorless rotating oscillator:
Code: Select all
x = 37, y = 29, rule = B2i34ik7/S23-a4ikn5j7
2bobo$bo2bo$2obo$obo4$3o14$32b3o4$32bobo$31bob2o$30bo2bo$30bobo!
https://catagolue.appspot.com/object/xp ... 3-a4ikn5j7
Is this the first "true" RRO found in any rule?
Re: Soup search results in rules other than Conway's Life
Posted: November 11th, 2016, 12:28 pm
by Apple Bottom
Nice
C4_4-symmetric period 21 oscillator in B368/S245 (Move / Morley):
Code: Select all
x = 18, y = 18, rule = B368/S245
5bo12b$5b3o10b$7bo10b$18b$18b$16b2o$6b3o2bo4bob$7b2ob2o3b2ob$8b4o6b$6b
4o8b$b2o3b2ob2o7b$bo4bo2b3o6b$2o16b$18b$18b$10bo7b$10b3o5b$12bo5b!
Soup:
Code: Select all
x = 32, y = 32, rule = B368/S245
ooboooobbbboboobbobboboboobbbbbo$
booobbobbbobbboobobbbobobobobooo$
boobbboooobboobooooboobboobbooob$
bbobooboobbobbobboboobbbbboobboo$
bobooooobboooobbobbbbbbobbooobbo$
bbboobbooboobbbbbobbbobobbboobbo$
ooobbboboobooooooobooobobobobooo$
obobbbbbbbobbboboooobbbobboooobb$
bobbooooobbbobobbooobobobooboobb$
obbbbbbbboboobboboboooobbobbbobb$
boobboobooboobbbobbbbbbboboobbob$
oboobbobbobobbobboboooobboooobbo$
bbbobbooooboboboobobbooobobobobb$
bbobbbboobbboboooobobbbbbobobobo$
ooooboooooboboooooobobbooobboboo$
bboboboobbobooobbooobbobbobbboob$
boobbbobbobbooobbooobobboobobobb$
oobobbooobbobooooooboboooooboooo$
obobobobbbbboboooobobbboobbbbobb$
bbobobobooobbobooboboboooobbobbb$
obboooobboooobobbobbobobbobboobo$
bobboobobbbbbbbobbboobooboobboob$
bbobbbobboooobobobboobobbbbbbbbo$
bbooboobobobooobbobobbbooooobbob$
bboooobbobbboooobobbbobbbbbbbobo$
oooboboboboooboooooooboobobbbooo$
obboobbbobobbbobbbbbooboobboobbb$
obbooobbobbbbbbobboooobbooooobob$
oobboobbbbboobobbobbobbooboobobb$
booobboobboobooooboobboooobbboob$
ooobobobobobbboboobbbobbbobbooob$
obbbbboobobobbobboobobbbbooooboo!
Haul (Apple Bottom):
here
Re: Soup search results in rules other than Conway's Life
Posted: November 15th, 2016, 10:18 pm
by velcrorex
New 4c/39 ship in B358/S238
Code: Select all
x = 41, y = 48, rule = B358/S238
16$15bo$14bobo$14bobo$16bo$14bo$13b3o4b3o$19bob2o$19bobob2o$19bob2o$
13b3o4b3o$14bo$16bo$14bobo$14bobo$15bo!
http://catagolue.appspot.com/object/xq3 ... e/b358s238
Re: Soup search results in rules other than Conway's Life
Posted: November 16th, 2016, 1:08 am
by drc
That isn't in glider database...great job!
Re: Soup search results in rules other than Conway's Life
Posted: November 18th, 2016, 7:25 am
by muzik
calcyman wrote:(101, 3)c/1884 puffer in b38s23/C1:
Code: Select all
x = 16, y = 16, rule = B38/S23
bob4o2b2o2bo$2b3ob3ob6o$2b4ob4o4bo$bo2bo4b3o2bo$2obob3o2b2o2bo$o8b2o2b
obo$3ob2ob4ob2o$2o2b3o5bo$2o7b2ob2o$ob5o3b6o$5bo3b6o$2b2ob2ob3ob3o$ob
2obo2b3obo$bob3ob2o2bo$3o2bob4obobo$b4o3b6o!
In fact, this is the fifth independent high-period natural infinite growth mechanism in B38/S23 (the others being the orthogonal puffer, the diagonal puffer, the (5,2)c/190 blinker puffer, and the rotating gun).
This is a very interesting!
Does not seem very Corderoid friendly though
Re: Soup search results in rules other than Conway's Life
Posted: November 21st, 2016, 11:20 pm
by Hdjensofjfnen
A for awesome wrote:This is my new favorite spaceship:
More nice stuff about this ship:
Code: Select all
x = 39, y = 17, rule = B2ekn3ei4z/S23-e6
2bob4obo$2b3o2b3o21bob4obo$31b3o2b3o12$28bo$o26bobo$2o25bob2o!
Re: Soup search results in rules other than Conway's Life
Posted: November 28th, 2016, 6:10 am
by Apple Bottom
Period 11 oscillator in Move/Morley (B368/S245):
Code: Select all
x = 14, y = 14, rule = B368/S245
2b2o6b2o2b$bo2bo4bo2bob$o2bo2b2o2bo2bo$ob10obo$bobo6bobob$3bo6bo3b$2b2o
6b2o2b$2b2o6b2o2b$3bo6bo3b$bobo6bobob$ob10obo$o2bo2b2o2bo2bo$bo2bo4bo2b
ob$2b2o6b2o2b!
Soup (D8_4):
Code: Select all
x = 32, y = 32, rule = B368/S245
boobobbbbobobbobbobbobobbbboboob$
ooobboobbbboboooooobobbbboobbooo$
oobbooboboooobbbbbbooooboboobboo$
bbbbboooobobooobboooboboooobbbbb$
obobboooboooboooooobooobooobbobo$
boooobooooboooobboooobooooboooob$
bobooobboobooobbbboooboobbooobob$
bboooobooooboobbbboobooooboooobb$
bbboboooboobooboobooboobooobobbb$
oboboooooobobobooboboboooooobobo$
bbooobboobbboboooobobbboobbooobb$
ooobooobboboooobboooobobbooobooo$
bboobooooboooooooooooobooooboobb$
boboooooooboobobboboobooooooobob$
oobooobbbboooooooooooobbbboooboo$
bobbobbbooobobobbobobooobbbobbob$
bobbobbbooobobobbobobooobbbobbob$
oobooobbbboooooooooooobbbboooboo$
boboooooooboobobboboobooooooobob$
bboobooooboooooooooooobooooboobb$
ooobooobboboooobboooobobbooobooo$
bbooobboobbboboooobobbboobbooobb$
oboboooooobobobooboboboooooobobo$
bbboboooboobooboobooboobooobobbb$
bboooobooooboobbbboobooooboooobb$
bobooobboobooobbbboooboobbooobob$
boooobooooboooobboooobooooboooob$
obobboooboooboooooobooobooobbobo$
bbbbboooobobooobboooboboooobbbbb$
oobbooboboooobbbbbbooooboboobboo$
ooobboobbbboboooooobobbbboobbooo$
boobobbbbobobbobbobbobobbbboboob!
Haul:
here (Apple Bottom)
Re: Soup search results in rules other than Conway's Life
Posted: December 7th, 2016, 6:01 pm
by Apple Bottom
Period 34 oscillator in Move/Morley (B368/S245):
Code: Select all
x = 12, y = 12, rule = B368/S245
4b2o6b$2bo2bo6b$bobo2bo5b$2bob4o4b$o2bo2bobo3b$2obo3b3o2b$2b3o3bob2o$3b
obo2bo2bo$4b4obo2b$5bo2bobob$6bo2bo2b$6b2o4b!
Soup (D4_x4):
Code: Select all
x = 32, y = 32, rule = B368/S245
bboobbboobboboobooooooboboobbbob$
bboobbobooobooobobobobooooobbbbo$
oooboobbooobbbobbbooobboobbbbobb$
ooboboobbbooobbobbboobbbboboobbb$
bboboooooobbobooobobobbobbboobbb$
bbooobbooboooboobooobbobbobbbboo$
boboobobobobooobboobbbobbooboboo$
obbboobboooobboooboobbobbbbbboob$
ooobooooboobooobbooboobbbbbobooo$
boobobboobobobboobooobbbooobbbob$
boooboooooobbboooboboobobbbbbbbo$
obbobobobbbbbbbobbbbbooobbbooooo$
bobooooboobbbbboobbbbboboboboobo$
oobbbbobobbbbboboobbbooooooobooo$
ooobooooobobbobbobobbbboboobbbbo$
bbboooboboooobbbboooboobobbobboo$
oobbobboboobooobbbboooobobooobbb$
obbbboobobbbbobobbobbobooooobooo$
ooobooooooobbboobobbbbbobobbbboo$
oboobobobobbbbboobbbbbooboooobob$
ooooobbbooobbbbbobbbbbbbobobobbo$
obbbbbbboboobobooobbboooooobooob$
bobbbooobbboooboobboboboobboboob$
ooobobbbbbooboobbooobooboooobooo$
boobbbbbbobboobooobboooobboobbbo$
ooboboobbobbboobboooboboboboobob$
oobbbbobbobbooobooboooboobbooobb$
bbboobbbobbobobooobobboooooobobb$
bbboobobbbboobbbobbooobbbooboboo$
bbobbbboobbooobbbobbbooobboobooo$
obbbbooooobobobobooobooobobboobb$
bobbboobobooooooboobobboobbboobb!
Haul:
here (Apple Bottom)
Re: Soup search results in rules other than Conway's Life
Posted: December 15th, 2016, 11:54 am
by Apple Bottom
A
Coe ship appeared in B38/S23/C1:
Code: Select all
x = 16, y = 16, rule = B38/S23
obobobooobbbbooo$
bboobbbbbboobobo$
oooooooobbbbobbb$
booboooboobobobo$
bobobobobbobbobo$
oboobobboooooobo$
obbboobbobboobob$
ooboobbbbboboobb$
boboobboobbboobb$
bbbbooboobbbbboo$
oooooboobbbbbboo$
obobooobbbooobbb$
bbbobboobooooobo$
bbobbooobobobooo$
bboobbobobbobobo$
oooboboobbboobbo!
Haul:
here (dsmiller)
The sample soup also produces a Coe ship in Conway Life.
Re: Soup search results in rules other than Conway's Life
Posted: December 15th, 2016, 2:08 pm
by apg
Indeed, this is confirmed by:
https://catagolue.appspot.com/attribute ... frc/b38s23
Dropping the final 'b38s23' shows that dsmiller is the only person other than me to have found a Coe ship in b3s23.
Re: Soup search results in rules other than Conway's Life
Posted: December 16th, 2016, 6:37 am
by Apple Bottom
Ooh, that's useful! Haven't seen that before, is that a new feature?
(Limited to C1 soups so far, BTW?
Putting in the Copperhead's code yields nothing.)
Re: Soup search results in rules other than Conway's Life
Posted: December 16th, 2016, 7:20 am
by apg
Apple Bottom wrote:
Ooh, that's useful! Haven't seen that before, is that a new feature?
(Limited to C1 soups so far, BTW?
Putting in the Copperhead's code yields nothing.)
/b3s23/D2_2 should work.
The feature has existed for ages; that's how the Twitterbot knows who produced which discoveries. It only works if the haul still exists, and causes the haul to be permanently saved from deletion. Also, for b3s23/C1, it updates user pages to reflect the discoveries.
Re: Soup search results in rules other than Conway's Life
Posted: December 16th, 2016, 7:26 am
by muzik
calcyman wrote:D2_2
That, uh, doesn't exist.
Re: Soup search results in rules other than Conway's Life
Posted: December 16th, 2016, 7:34 am
by Apple Bottom
calcyman wrote:/b3s23/D2_2 should work.
Hmm, nope, no luck there. I've tried all of D2_2, D2_+2 and D2_%2B2, but none worked.
It does work for
D8_4, though. And for
D4_+4 as well, so it's not the plus sign that's the problem.
Of course all the D2_+2 copperhead hauls have been deleted, so it's probably that? (Pity, though, I was hoping it would be able to spit out a list of sample soups across all sorts of symmetries, or even rules, like this:
Code: Select all
*** xq10_o5995ozes88sezw33 ***
B3/S23/D2_2: Soup m_F6MyAfKnmyKL3870303 is owned by Apple Bottom
B3/S23/D2_2: Soup m_yb489s8v6ggw6421243 is owned by Apple Bottom
B3/S23/D2_2: Soup m_Cg4DTefhy4Ec6736994 is owned by Apple Bottom
B3/S23/D4_+4: Soup m_HykFEg8PGNrv83509606 is owned by thunk
B3/S23/D8_4: Soup m_MvACu4uhtzaP5980444 is owned by thunk
and likewise for objects that have occurred across different rules, such as the Coe ship.
The feature has existed for ages; that's how the Twitterbot knows who produced which discoveries. It only works if the haul still exists, and causes the haul to be permanently saved from deletion. Also, for b3s23/C1, it updates user pages to reflect the discoveries.
Ah, neat, I'd been wondering how it did that. Where does it get the new discoveries themselves from, BTW?