ConwayLife.com

Posted: **August 8th, 2017, 3:09 pm**

I personally feel like these lists would work a lot better as a page/pages on the wiki, since that way multiple trusted people will be able to edit the page and update it at will. Also, I could pop a nice looking chart/table at the top of it that links you down to the respective speed, while highlighting speeds not yet discovered.

On a different note: Will generations and larger than life rules be allowed?

muzik wrote:In which case, here are two 7-knightships:

c/17:
Code: Select all
x = 3, y = 4, rule = 2378/34578/4
2A$A.A$.BA$.2A!
[[ THEME Blues ]]
c/66:
Code: Select all
x = 8, y = 9, rule = 23578/3568/4
6.2A$6.2A3$.2A.C$2ACA$AC.A$ABA$C2A!
[[ THEME Blues ]]

Posted: **August 8th, 2017, 4:05 pm**

Although this obviously doesn't count, c diagonal:

Code: Select all

x = 1, y = 1, rule = MAPAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
o!

Posted: **August 8th, 2017, 5:01 pm**

AforAmpere wrote:
muzik wrote:Are there any speeds and/or directions that would be completely impossible in all range-1 2-state CA, without the usage of universal construction technology?
I believe c diagonal is an example.

No:

Code: Select all

x = 1, y = 1, rule = MAPGAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
o!

Posted: **August 8th, 2017, 5:03 pm**

toroidalet wrote: ...
c/12 diagonal
Code: Select all
x = 4, y = 4, rule = B2cek3acijr5c6cik/S2-ck3inr
3bo2$3bo$obo!
...

Well, tie in minimal bounding box - c/12 diagonal:

Code: Select all

x = 4, y = 4, rule = B02/S1V
o$b2o$bobo$3bo!

Posted: **August 8th, 2017, 6:34 pm**

A for awesome wrote:
AforAmpere wrote:
muzik wrote:Are there any speeds and/or directions that would be completely impossible in all range-1 2-state CA, without the usage of universal construction technology?
I believe c diagonal is an example.
No:
Code: Select all
x = 1, y = 1, rule = MAPGAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
o!

Sorry, I read that wrong. a p1 knightship would be an actual answer.

Posted: **August 8th, 2017, 6:40 pm**

AforAmpere wrote:Sorry, I read that wrong. a p1 knightship would be an actual answer.

But surely that would require a larger neighbourhood than my constraints would allow?

Posted: **August 8th, 2017, 6:55 pm**

Exactly, a p1 knightship is completely impossible in R1 Moore, you had no constraints for answers. I think (2,1)c/2 is also impossible, but within R1 Moore, because I think B1c in some direction would be required to make it work, and that would cause the knightship to fail. I can't say for sure without a better proof.

Posted: **August 8th, 2017, 6:55 pm**

muzik wrote:
AforAmpere wrote:Sorry, I read that wrong. a p1 knightship would be an actual answer.
But surely that would require a larger neighbourhood than my constraints would allow?

Yes; by definition that would require a range-2 or higher CA.
While speeds >c technically answer the question, that's not really the answer muzik was looking for.
As for the actual answer, there are (presumably) infinitely many speeds and/or directions satisfying the criteria but a definitive proof for any particular speed is far beyond the reach of current computational machinery.

AforAmpere wrote:I think (2,1)c/2 is also impossible, but within R1 Moore, because I think B1c in some direction would be required to make it work, and that would cause the knightship to fail. I can't say for sure without a better proof.

This only disproves the existence of such ships for rules without B0.

Posted: **August 8th, 2017, 6:57 pm**

Can (2,1)c/2 be proved to be impossible?

Posted: **August 8th, 2017, 7:03 pm**

AforAmpere wrote:Can (2,1)c/2 be proved to be impossible?

I doubt it — one is likely possible by a similar mechanism to the 3c/4 diagonal B0 ship.

Posted: **August 8th, 2017, 7:27 pm**

How is this? Imagine there was a (2,1)c/2 ship. In one of the 2 generations, it would have to shift 1 cell diagonally, but also move up 1 at the same time, which seems to require B1c in one of the four diagonal directions. The problem is that with B1c, it can only support diagonal spaceships, even if non-symmetric, as everything has corners. Another way to look at it is this:

Code: Select all

x = 4, y = 5, rule = B1e2345678/S012345678History
3.D2$.2A$A.A$2.A!

Without B1c, the explosion can't even get to the red dot in 2 generations, but B1c is already impossible to use, even in non-symmetric rules, so it seems to be impossible.

Posted: **August 8th, 2017, 8:35 pm**

AforAmpere wrote:How is this? Imagine there was a (2,1)c/2 ship. In one of the 2 generations, it would have to shift 1 cell diagonally, but also move up 1 at the same time, which seems to require B1c in one of the four diagonal directions. The problem is that with B1c, it can only support diagonal spaceships, even if non-symmetric, as everything has corners. Another way to look at it is this:
Code: Select all
x = 4, y = 5, rule = B1e2345678/S012345678History
3.D2$.2A$A.A$2.A!
Without B1c, the explosion can't even get to the red dot in 2 generations, but B1c is already impossible to use, even in non-symmetric rules, so it seems to be impossible.

It's true you can't shift diagonally with B1c and then orthogonally with B1e but you can move diagonally with B0 A*1c and then orthogonally with S7e.
Speaking of which, what's the status on non-totalistic B0 rules?

*A is short for abstain; in this case B1c is explicitly prohibited.

Posted: **August 9th, 2017, 5:34 pm**

32c/320:

Code: Select all

x = 111, y = 148, rule = B3/S23
66b2o$65b2ob2o5b3o$65bo2b2o10bo$65b4o6b2o3b3o$65b2o4b2o3b2o2bobo$65b2o
4b2o3b2o2bobo$65b4o6b2o3b3o$65bo2b2o10bo$45b2o18b2ob2o5b3o$45bobo6b2o
2bo7b2o18b2o$44bo2b2o5b2obo2bo25bobo6b2o2bo$22b2o21b2o3bo4bo4bo24bo2b
2o5b2obo2bo$22bobo6b2o2bo9bo5bo4bo2bobo24b2o3bo4bo4bo$21bo2b2o5b2obo2b
o7bo5bo4bo2bobo24bo5bo4bo2bobo$22b2o3bo4bo4bo7b2o3bo4bo4bo25bo5bo4bo2b
obo$22bo5bo4bo2bobo5bo2b2o5b2obo2bo25b2o3bo4bo4bo$22bo5bo4bo2bobo6bobo
6b2o2bo26bo2b2o5b2obo2bo$22b2o3bo4bo4bo7b2o39bobo6b2o2bo$21bo2b2o5b2ob
o2bo48b2o$b2o19bobo6b2o2bo$bobo6b2o2bo7b2o$o2b2o5b2obo2bo$b2o3bo4bo4bo
$bo5bo4bo2bobo8b2o8b2o20b2o$bo5bo4bo2bobo8b2o8b2o20b2o$b2o3bo4bo4bo$o
2b2o5b2obo2bo77b2o$bobo6b2o2bo79bobo6b2o2bo$b2o90bo2b2o5b2obo2bo$94b2o
3bo4bo4bo$94bo5bo4bo2bobo$13b2o6b2o22b2o6b2o39bo5bo4bo2bobo$13b2o6b2o
22b2o6b2o39b2o3bo4bo4bo$93bo2b2o5b2obo2bo$94bobo6b2o2bo$94b2o$34b2o$
34b2o2$82bo$17b2o63b2o$17bobo6b2o2bo50bobo$16bo2b2o5b2obo2bo$17b2o3bo
4bo4bo$17bo5bo4bo2bobo$17bo5bo4bo2bobo$17b2o3bo4bo4bo$16bo2b2o5b2obo2b
o$17bobo6b2o2bo$17b2o17$57bobo$58b2o$58bo30$17b2o$17bobo6b2o2bo$16bo2b
2o5b2obo2bo$17b2o3bo4bo4bo$17bo5bo4bo2bobo$17bo5bo4bo2bobo$17b2o3bo4bo
4bo$16bo2b2o5b2obo2bo$17bobo6b2o2bo$17b2o5$94b2o$94bobo6b2o2bo$93bo2b
2o5b2obo2bo$5b2o22b2o6b2o30b2o23b2o3bo4bo4bo$5b2o22b2o6b2o30b2o23bo5bo
4bo2bobo$94bo5bo4bo2bobo$94b2o3bo4bo4bo$b2o90bo2b2o5b2obo2bo$bobo6b2o
2bo47bobo29bobo6b2o2bo$o2b2o5b2obo2bo44bo3bo28b2o$b2o3bo4bo4bo43bo4bo$
bo5bo4bo2bobo24b2o16bo4bo8b2o$bo5bo4bo2bobo24b2o16bo3bo9b2o$b2o3bo4bo
4bo44bo2bo$o2b2o5b2obo2bo$bobo6b2o2bo7b2o$b2o19bobo6b2o2bo$21bo2b2o5b
2obo2bo48b2o$22b2o3bo4bo4bo7b2o39bobo6b2o2bo$22bo5bo4bo2bobo6bobo6b2o
2bo26bo2b2o5b2obo2bo$22bo5bo4bo2bobo5bo2b2o5b2obo2bo25b2o3bo4bo4bo$22b
2o3bo4bo4bo7b2o3bo4bo4bo25bo5bo4bo2bobo$21bo2b2o5b2obo2bo7bo5bo4bo2bob
o24bo5bo4bo2bobo$22bobo6b2o2bo9bo5bo4bo2bobo24b2o3bo4bo4bo$22b2o21b2o
3bo4bo4bo24bo2b2o5b2obo2bo$44bo2b2o5b2obo2bo25bobo6b2o2bo$45bobo6b2o2b
o7b2o18b2o$45b2o18b2ob2o5b3o$65bo2b2o10bo$65b4o6b2o3b3o$65b2o4b2o3b2o
2bobo$65b2o4b2o3b2o2bobo$65b4o6b2o3b3o$65bo2b2o10bo$65b2ob2o5b3o$66b2o
!

Posted: **August 10th, 2017, 8:30 pm**

44-cell 8c/26 diagonal

Code: Select all

x = 19, y = 19, rule = B2cei3aeiny/S2-i3-a4citz
5bo$6bo$7bo$4bo$3bo$o$bo$2bo10bobo$16bo$16bo$10b2o3bo$10b2o$14bobo$7bo
5b3obo$12b2o3b2o$7bo2bo2bo3b2o$8b2o2bo4bo$13b5o$14b2o!

Posted: **August 10th, 2017, 8:54 pm**

toroidalet wrote:44-cell 8c/26 diagonal

Code: Select all

x = 19, y = 19, rule = B2cei3aeiny/S2-i3-a4citz
5bo$6bo$7bo$4bo$3bo$o$bo$2bo10bobo$16bo$16bo$10b2o3bo$10b2o$14bobo$7bo
5b3obo$12b2o3b2o$7bo2bo2bo3b2o$8b2o2bo4bo$13b5o$14b2o!

Adding B6n tames the rear spark, cutting minimum population and dimensions in right around half:

Code: Select all

x = 9, y = 9, rule = B2cei3aeiny6n/S2-i3-a4citz
4b2o$b3ob2o$bo4bo$bo$o7bo$2o5bo$b2o5bo$5bo2bo$4bob3o!

Posted: **August 11th, 2017, 10:00 am**

drc discovered this one a while ago, not sure if it's in the collection.

Code: Select all

x = 12, y = 12, rule = B35/S234i
11bo$11bo$9b3o7$2bo$2bo$3o!

Posted: **August 12th, 2017, 11:06 am**

BlinkerSpawn wrote:Adding B6n tames the rear spark, cutting minimum population and dimensions in right around half:
Code: Select all
ship

Nice catch!
Smaller c/30

Code: Select all

x = 3, y = 7, rule = B3/S1c2-ck35i
2bo$bo3$bo$2o$o!

6 cells

Posted: **August 12th, 2017, 8:23 pm**

c/7 diagonal:

Code: Select all

x = 5, y = 5, rule = B2ce3-ai/S23
4bo$b2obo$bo2bo2$3o!

Posted: **August 13th, 2017, 11:52 pm**

toroidalet wrote:Smaller c/30
Code: Select all
x = 3, y = 7, rule = B3/S1c2-ck35i
2bo$bo3$bo$2o$o!
6 cells

wwei23 wrote:c/7 diagonal:
Code: Select all
x = 5, y = 5, rule = B2ce3-ai/S23
4bo$b2obo$bo2bo2$3o!

Both these diagonal speeds already have 3-cell examples.

Also, to wwei23, please observe the canonical direction for ships posted in this thread which is given in the original post.

Posted: **August 14th, 2017, 10:42 am**

wildmyron wrote:Both these diagonal speeds already have 3-cell examples.

My mistake, I was looking at the population for the 3c/30 diagonal ship. (the layout is confusing)
18-cell 4c/5 to attone for my mistakes

Code: Select all

x = 11, y = 7, rule = B2ac5a/S01e
7bo$2b3o4b2o$bo2bo$o3bo$bo2bo$2b3o4b2o$7bo!

Posted: **August 14th, 2017, 12:49 pm**

22c/61:

Code: Select all

x = 7, y = 5, rule = B3-q4-a5y8/S23-ijn4a5aj
b3o$o3b2o$o5bo$o3b2o$b3o!

Posted: **August 14th, 2017, 2:48 pm**

I still haven't logged all of the 4-cell ships that I lost after the crash, because I have had a lot of other things to do lately. This still has a bunch more new ships, and I will finish looking through the 4-cell results eventually.

toroidalet wrote:the layout is confusing)

How is it confusing? I tried to lay it out so that specific periods were easy to look up, so just scroll down to p30 in the diagonal ships file and look for 3c/30. Please feel free to tell me why it is confusing.

toroidalet wrote: 18-cell 4c/5 to attone for my mistakes
Code: Select all
x = 11, y = 7, rule = B2ac5a/S01e
7bo$2b3o4b2o$bo2bo$o3bo$bo2bo$2b3o4b2o$7bo!

How was this found? I did one soup of the rule, and it just popped out, but was this discovery on accident? That fills in all ships up to p5 that are possible in Non-totalistic rules. I have a feeling that 5c/6 will not be found for a while though.

EDIT, that rule actually has two 4c/5 ships:

Code: Select all

x = 11, y = 31, rule = B2ac5a/S01e
7bo$2b3o4b2o$bo2bo$o3bo$bo2bo$2b3o4b2o$7bo10$3bobo$2bo2$2bo$7bo$3b3o3b
2o$2bo2bo$bo3bo$2bo2bo$3b3o3b2o$7bo$2bo2$2bo$3bobo!

Posted: **August 14th, 2017, 7:18 pm**

What are your opinions on maybe hosting the collection on the wiki, so that it can be updated by anyone?

Posted: **August 14th, 2017, 7:28 pm**

I don't know how I would really do that, and I am worried that spammers would start editing it with fake or irrelevant stuff. If there was a way to allow certain people to edit it or something, maybe, but I am really unsure. The problem is, I know someone would add in their "discovery", and not actually check before adding it.

Posted: **August 14th, 2017, 7:34 pm**

AforAmpere wrote:and I am worried that spammers would start editing it with fake or irrelevant stuff.

Strongly doubt this would happen, since the wiki requires your account be trusted for anyone to edit.

ConwayLife.com

Smallest Spaceships Supporting Specific Speeds (5s) Project

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Re: Smallest Spaceships Supporting Specific Speeds (5s) Project

Re: Smallest Spaceships Supporting Specific Speeds (5s) Project

Re: Smallest Spaceships Supporting Specific Speeds (5s) Project

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