Thread for basic questions

[dvgrn]

What is the oldest version of LifeViewer that can still be used online?

Unless there are some incompatibilities with new versions of browsers that I haven't heard of, every build of LifeViewer still does pretty much what it did when it was built. So whenever somebody made a copy of a build and put it somewhere, that build can still be used online. For example, the LifeViewer packaged with Paul Callahan's illustrated pattern collection on conwaylife.com/ref/lifepage appears to be build 307.

If I remember right, earlier builds of LifeViewer are archived somewhere on the lazyslug server, but offhand my searches aren't finding where. Can someone provide a link?

[b-engine]

Unless there are some incompatibilities with new versions of browsers that I haven't heard of, every build of LifeViewer still does pretty much what it did when it was built.

Pretty much every webpages or webapps, as long as they're built using only HTML, CSS and JavaScript, would guarantee to run in every future browsers. Those three things always prioritize backwards compatibility over everything.

[PK22]

What conduits/converters are known which produce an accessible domino spark?

[I6_I6]

What is the oldest version of LifeViewer that can still be used online?

Unless there are some incompatibilities with new versions of browsers that I haven't heard of, every build of LifeViewer still does pretty much what it did when it was built. So whenever somebody made a copy of a build and put it somewhere, that build can still be used online. For example, the LifeViewer packaged with Paul Callahan's illustrated pattern collection on conwaylife.com/ref/lifepage appears to be build 307.

If I remember right, earlier builds of LifeViewer are archived somewhere on the lazyslug server, but offhand my searches aren't finding where. Can someone provide a link?

The RLE in that link is really weird; I've never seen it before (but that's probably because I'm relatively new to CA). I don't see any width, height or rule specifications and has lines starting with #P everywhere. Somehow it still works in Golly and LifeViewer.

My question is:
How does X-to-G naming scheme work? The explanation in NW31 is a bit unclear.
To find the lane of the output glider, you have to figure out how far it is relative to the input, but which cell should you choose from? Is there a canonical center cell for herschels and other conduit signals?
Can someone please explain clearly how to name X-to-Gs?

[EvinZL]

build 307.

The RLE in that link is really weird; I've never seen it before (but that's probably because I'm relatively new to CA). I don't see any width, height or rule specifications and has lines starting with #P everywhere. Somehow it still works in Golly and LifeViewer.

That's because it isn't an RLE but rather a Life 1.05 file. Because this format was used widely and a lot of patterns (such as the one in the link) are still in this format, Golly and LV are compatible with it. It was used before OCA were popular, which should be why there is not rule specification in the format. In general, this format consists of chunks that are given in ./* format and the #P lines tell where to put these chunks. This allows it to get a good compression for patterns people are interested in sharing (because lots of empty space can be removed).

My question is:
How does X-to-G naming scheme work? The explanation in NW31 is a bit unclear.
To find the lane of the output glider, you have to figure out how far it is relative to the input, but which cell should you choose from? Is there a canonical center cell for herschels and other conduit signals?
Can someone please explain clearly how to name X-to-Gs?

The standard centers and starting generations for the recognized conduit regions back in 2015 (RBHWCP) are given in this post. The canonical shapes and centers for the various glider orientations are in this post.

Now, for an X-to-G converter, we first take the center cell of the input in canonical orientation. For NW31, the center cell of the H is marked below and I've also drawn the vertical "centerline" containing the central cell:

Code: Select all

x = 32, y = 49, rule = LifeSuper
3.4B3.L$4.4B2.L$5.4B.L$6.4BL$7.3BL$8.2BLB$9.BL2B$10.L3B$10.L4B$10.L.
4B$10.L2.4B$10.L3.4B$10.L4.4B$10.L5.4B$10.L6.4B$10.L7.4B$10.L8.4B$10.
L9.4B$10.L9.4B$10.L9.5B$10.L8.9B$10.L8.9B$10.L8.9B$10.L7.10B$10.L6.
12B$7.2A.L6.13B$8.A.L7.11B$8.A.AB4.12B$9.2AB.15B$10.L17B$10.L17B$10.L
.17B.B$10.L19B2A$9.BL17B.B2A$7.3BL15B4.B$7.2BDL15B$6.3BDLD4B.9B$7.2BD
CD4B2.7B$6.4BLD4B2.7B$5.5BL4B4.6B$4.4B2.L7.7B$4.3B3.L8.6B$2.4B4.L8.7B
$2.2A6.L8.6B$3.A6.L8.5B$3A7.L7.6B$A9.L7.4B$10.L7.2B2AB$10.L9.2A!

Now let us look at the lane and the orientation of the output glider, forgetting about timing. We then draw a canonical glider in the same orientation and lane but is centered on the vertical centerline. In the following diagram I've extended the lane backwards in green and marked the matching canonical glider and its center:

Code: Select all

x = 32, y = 49, rule = LifeSuper
3.4J3.L$4.4J2.L$5.4J.L$6.4JL$7.3JL$8.J3A$9.AV2J$10.A3J$10.L4J$10.L.4J
$10.L2.4J$10.L3.4J$10.L4.4J$10.L5.4J$10.L6.4J$10.L7.4J$10.L8.4J$10.L
9.4J$10.L9.B4J$10.L9.2B4J$10.L8.4B4JB$10.L8.5B4J$10.L8.6B4J$10.L7.8B
4J$10.L6.10B4J$7.2A.L6.11B4J$8.A.L7.11B3J$8.A.AB4.12B2.2J$9.2AB.15B3.
J$10.L17B$10.L17B$10.L.17B.B$10.L19B2A$9.BL17B.B2A$7.3BL15B4.B$7.2BDL
15B$6.3BDLD4B.9B$7.2BDCD4B2.7B$6.4BLD4B2.7B$5.5BL4B4.6B$4.4B2.L7.7B$
4.3B3.L8.6B$2.4B4.L8.7B$2.2A6.L8.6B$3.A6.L8.5B$3A7.L7.6B$A9.L7.4B$10.
L7.2B2AB$10.L9.2A!

We see that the glider is travelling northwest, so we get NW for the orientation. The center of the canonical glider is 31 cells above the center of the input, so we get the lane 31. Now we will find the timing. To do this, we run the X-to-G and this canonical glider and compare the timings:

Code: Select all

x = 32, y = 44, rule = TripleB3S23
9.3D$9.D$10.D18$7.2B$8.B$8.B.B$9.2B4$30.2B$30.2B2$9.B$9.B.B$9.3B$11.B
5$2.2B$3.B$3B$B$20.2B$20.2B!
#C [[ STOP 73 ]]

If we run this until the output glider appears, we see that the output glider is 120 ticks behind the canonical glider. So the timing number is 120, giving the full name NW31T120.

In practice nobody actually calculates labels; most work is done by the script in this post (again). If I need to find the label of a "missing" X-to-G I want to complete something, I usually just paste in a converter I know the label of, run it, and then compare what this produces to what I actually need.

[muzik]

What is the oldest version of LifeViewer that can still be used online?

Unless there are some incompatibilities with new versions of browsers that I haven't heard of, every build of LifeViewer still does pretty much what it did when it was built. So whenever somebody made a copy of a build and put it somewhere, that build can still be used online. For example, the LifeViewer packaged with Paul Callahan's illustrated pattern collection on conwaylife.com/ref/lifepage appears to be build 307.

Just checked, and build 115 still works fine on my end: https://web.archive.org/web/20150522195 ... /lifeview/

I wonder if builds older than this are saved somewhere. Anyone still got internet temp files from 2013 lying around they could dig through? Does Chris have any old source code anywhere? No earlier builds appear to be saved on the wayback machine (I've checked .com, no-ip.biz and dyndns-ip.com with no success).

If I remember right, earlier builds of LifeViewer are archived somewhere on the lazyslug server, but offhand my searches aren't finding where. Can someone provide a link?

I assume that would be here: https://lazyslug.com/lifeview/plugin/js/previous/

There's also the now-unused "lv-plugin-no-opt.js" one level up from there which I believe is an experimental fork of build 167.

[I6_I6]

Why do all patterns in B1357/S02468 and B1357/S1357 replicate? Is there a proof? Are there more such rules?

Code: Select all

x = 21, y = 9, rule = B1357/S1357
2o2b3ob2o2bo3bo$obob2o2bobobo3bo$2o2bo3b2o2bo3bo2b2o$obob3obo3b3obo2$
b2ob2o2b3o2bo2b2o$o3bobo2bo2bobobobo$o3b3o2bo2bobob2o$b2obobo2bo3bo2b
obo!
[[ STOP 32 ]]

[muzik]

There are many cases of bounding a spaceship between multiple stationary reflectors, but are there any cases of continuously bounding a spaceship between other spaceships, in such a way that the result is a higher period spaceship?

[dbell]

There are many cases of bounding a spaceship between multiple stationary reflectors, but are there any cases of continuously bounding a spaceship between other spaceships, in such a way that the result is a higher period spaceship?

Yes, here is an old one which 'bounces' a glider back and forth between two c/5 spaceships.

Code: Select all

#C A period 3240 c/5 spaceship.
#C This shuttles a glider back and forth between two c/5 convoys.
#C David I. Bell, June 1998
x = 430, y = 94
34boo5boo344boo5boo$35boo3boo346boo3boo$32bobbobobobobbo340bobbobobobo
bbo$32bo11bo340bo11bo$32bobbobobobobbo340bobbobobobobbo$7bo5boo5boo5bo
7boo3boo7bo5boo5boo5bo290bo5boo5boo5bo7boo3boo7bo5boo5boo5bo$5bobboob
oobbo3bobbooboobbo6boo3boo4bobbooboobbo3bobbooboobbo286bobbooboobbo3bo
bbooboobbo4boo3boo6bobbooboobbo3bobbooboobbo$3b3o4bobo3bobo3bobo4b3o3b
3o7b3o4bobo3bobo3bobo4b3o282b3o4bobo3bobo3bobo4b3o7b3o3b3o4bobo3bobo3b
obo4b3o$3boobbobb3oboo3boob3obbobboo4b3o6boobbobb3oboo3boob3obbobboo
282boobbobb3oboo3boob3obbobboo6b3o4boobbobb3oboo3boob3obbobboo$3b3obb
3o4bo3bo4b3obb3obbobbo7b3obb3o4bo3bo4b3obb3o282b3obb3o4bo3bo4b3obb3o7b
obbobb3obb3o4bo3bo4b3obb3o$4bobobbo15bobbobo4boo9bobobbo15bobbobo284bo
bobbo15bobbobo9boo4bobobbo15bobbobo$5bo23bo17bo23bo286bo23bo17bo23bo$
36bo$35boo$35bobo16$56boo5boo300boo5boo$6bo3b3o5b3o3bo23b4obobobo5bobo
bob4o284b4obobobo5bobobob4o23bo3b3o5b3o3bo$3boob5oboo3boob5oboo19b3obo
boboobo3boboobobob3o282b3oboboboobo3boboobobob3o19boob5oboo3boob5oboo$
boboobo5bobobobo5boboobo17bo3bobo13bobo3bo282bo3bobo13bobo3bo17boboobo
5bobobobo5boboobo$o3bobo3b5ob5o3bobo3bo17bob3o5booboo5b3obo284bob3o5b
ooboo5b3obo17bo3bobo3b5ob5o3bobo3bo$4b3o5boo3boo5b3o21boo21boo284boo
21boo21b3o5boo3boo5b3o$bobbob3o13b3obobbo18b5o15b5o284b5o15b5o18bobbob
3o13b3obobbo$3bo23bo23boo15boo290boo15boo23bo23bo14$49bo3b3o5b3o3bo
294bo3b3o5b3o3bo$46boob5oboo3boob5oboo288boob5oboo3boob5oboo$44boboobo
5bobobobo5boboobo284boboobo5bobobobo5boboobo$43bo3bobo3b5ob5o3bobo3bo
282bo3bobo3b5ob5o3bobo3bo$47b3o5boo3boo5b3o290b3o5boo3boo5b3o$44bobbob
3o13b3obobbo284bobbob3o13b3obobbo$46bo23bo288bo23bo27$5boo5boo5boo5boo
374boo5boo5boo5boo$3bo3bo3bobbo3bobbo3bo3bo370bo3bo3bobbo3bobbo3bo3bo$
3bo3bobob3o5b3obobo3bo370bo3bobob3o5b3obobo3bo$3bo5boobb3ob3obboo5bo
18bo3b3o5b3o3bo296bo3b3o5b3o3bo18bo5boobb3ob3obboo5bo$3boob3o15b3oboo
15boob5oboo3boob5oboo290boob5oboo3boob5oboo15boob3o15b3oboo$3bo25bo13b
oboobo5bobobobo5boboobo286boboobo5bobobobo5boboobo13bo25bo$4bo3bo15bo
3bo13bo3bobo3b5ob5o3bobo3bo284bo3bobo3b5ob5o3bobo3bo13bo3bo15bo3bo$5bo
bbo15bobbo18b3o5boo3boo5b3o292b3o5boo3boo5b3o18bobbo15bobbo$43bobbob3o
13b3obobbo286bobbob3o13b3obobbo$45bo23bo290bo23bo!

I admit that the bounce used here is pretty slow and complicated.

If you really want a quick bounce, then a glider loop using Corderships uses true bounces of a glider as shown in viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4713&start=150#p214988.

If you want a spaceship other than a glider to be bounced, then that is also possible. The Infinite LWSS Hotel (https://conwaylife.com/wiki/Infinite_LWSS_hotel) 'bounces' a LWSS from front to back using a c/3 convoy using a very slow and complicated reaction. It would be possible to adapt that into a high period spaceship by letting the backward LWSS trigger the creation of a new forward LWSS by a trailing c/3 convoy.

A quick bounce is probably possible for a LWSS by using four 'twin bees shuttle sparks' (https://conwaylife.com/wiki/Twin_bees_shuttle_spark) made using c/3 rakes to create a LWSS loop. That would be interesting to see.

BCNU,
-dbell

[Mimila99]

How do I fix the ship in a mechanism that keeps getting eaten, same as other still lifes?

Code: Select all

#CXRLE Pos=-20,-11
x = 21, y = 9, rule = B3/S23
6b2o10b2o$6bobo5bo3bobo$3bo3b2o6bo3b2o$2b3o10b2o$bobobo11bo$3ob3o10b2o
$bobobo13bo$2b3o$3bo!

I need it so it's a small still life not an oscillator preferably
It needs to be small and not stretch down and left
I know it looks weird, but it's because I'm making a mechanism and I don't want other people to finish and steal the whole thing

note: the rle has a proper eating reaction on the left, but the other doesn't (the problem is on the right)

thanks

Moved from LifeWiki discussion --hotdogPi

[rabbit]

How do I fix the ship in a mechanism that keeps getting eaten, same as other still lifes?

You would have to disclose which object you are trying to eat, there's no general solution to catalysis.

The rightmost object in your RLE is a spark that dies out by itself, so nothing additional is necessary.

[Mimila99]

How do I fix the ship in a mechanism that keeps getting eaten, same as other still lifes?

You would have to disclose which object you are trying to eat

If I upload it how do i keep it so no-one steals the idea

[b-engine]

If I upload it how do i keep it so no-one steals the idea

Conway's Life, and CA in general, is "open source", meaning that every idea and implementations (patterns) can (and should) be shared and modified.
Unless you license the pattern, which you shouldn't since every patterns are in public domain.

[PK22]

Is there a way to turn a glider into an xWSS (at a 135-degree angle) using only a salvo of xWSSes?

[I6_I6]

Who has the highest average posts per day on the Forums?
(dvgrn currently has 1.96, which is the highest I found.)
Is it concerning that my posts per day is higher than 1?

[hotdogPi]

Who has the highest average posts per day on the Forums?
(dvgrn currently has 1.96, which is the highest I found.)
Is it concerning that my posts per day is higher than 1?

confocaloid has 4.81, and b-engine has 4.53.

[b-engine]

confocaloid has 4.81, and b-engine has 4.53.

My average post per day count once achieved more than 6 (probably 6.23), mostly OCA posts.

[Resu]

Are there any 1 or 2 cell thick oscillators except for the blinker?

[hotdogPi]

Are there any 1 or 2 cell thick oscillators except for the blinker?

In at least one phase? Toad.

[Mimila99]

I'm struggling to make conduits because I don't know how to stop it from killing catalysts that contain it
I know what eater 2 and eater 1 can do, but other stuff is confusing because I can't find turorials on it anywhere in the wiki
If conduits are a little too complex for me, what would be the easiest object to make a conduit for?

Thanks

[hth3]

I'm struggling to make conduits because I don't know how to stop it from killing catalysts that contain it
I know what eater 2 and eater 1 can do, but other stuff is confusing because I can't find turorials on it anywhere in the wiki
If conduits are a little too complex for me, what would be the easiest object to make a conduit for?

Thanks

There is no easiest object to make a conduit, but the most useful are Herschel, B-heptomino, glider, and LWSS.
I used to do some dove conduitry, I would describe it as pretty easy, maybe you will like that.
There are also some useful active regions that are not recognized as conduit regions yet such as R-turner, HWSS, e9jp, thorn, and B-turner.

[I6_I6]

I'm struggling to make conduits because I don't know how to stop it from killing catalysts that contain it
I know what eater 2 and eater 1 can do, but other stuff is confusing because I can't find turorials on it anywhere in the wiki
If conduits are a little too complex for me, what would be the easiest object to make a conduit for?

Thanks

Try looking at Tutorials:Catalyses. It helps a lot.
EDIT:
Is there a glider timing adjustment toolkit somewhere?
More specifically, how would I advance this glider by 4 generations? I'm trying to build a stable MWSS heisenburp:

Code: Select all

x = 104, y = 70, rule = LifeSuper
51.2A$50.A.A$44.2A4.A$42.A2.A2.2A.4A$42.2A.A.A.A.A2.A$45.A.A.A.A$45.A
.A.2A$46.A$41.A$39.3A17.2A$38.A11.2A7.A$37.A.A10.2A5.A.A$37.A.A17.2A$
38.A5$22.2A$22.2A23.2A$48.A$45.3A$43.A2.A$43.2A3.A$47.2A2$35.2A$35.2A
2$25.A.2A$23.3A.2A$4.A10.A6.A$4.3A7.A.A6.3A.2A$7.A6.A.A8.2A2.A$6.2A5.
2A.3A9.A.A$19.A4.A.2A.A.A16.A$13.2A.3A5.2A.A2.A15.3A$13.2A.A10.A17.A$
27.2A16.2A$3.A21.2A2.A.A$2.A.A19.A2.A2.2A$3.A21.2A5$49.2A$2A47.2A$2A
21.2A$23.2A2$44.2A53.2A$44.2A53.A$48.2A51.A$48.2A31.2A14.5A$82.A13.A$
82.A.A12.3A$42.2A39.2A15.A$42.2A53.4A$92.2A3.A3.2A$92.2A4.3A2.A$100.A
.2A$100.A$99.2A3$91.2A$79.3A9.A$78.3BA10.3A$77.3BA13.A!

EDIT 2: Nevermind, I found the H-to-G Timing Adjustment Toolkit.

[synperiplanar]

is there really any benefit of having a truly stable device instead of a functionally stable one? if there isn't, can we consider any oscillators that can be constructed with 6 or less gliders to be neo-Spartan as long as they're used for functionally stable purposes?

[hth3]

is there really any benefit of having a truly stable device instead of a functionally stable one? if there isn't, can we consider any oscillators that can be constructed with 6 or less gliders to be neo-Spartan as long as they're used for functionally stable purposes?

I think it is because a p1 device can be used in any phase (except in the recovery time).

[I6_I6]

is there really any benefit of having a truly stable device instead of a functionally stable one? if there isn't, can we consider any oscillators that can be constructed with 6 or less gliders to be neo-Spartan as long as they're used for functionally stable purposes?

I think it is because a p1 device can be used in any phase (except in the recovery time).

A functionally stable device is technically periodic, but can still be used in every phase.
Look at this p8 glider reflector, for example:

Code: Select all

x = 19, y = 20, rule = B3/S23
14b2o$bo12bo$2bo9bobo$3o9b2o4$11b2o$11b2o3b2o$15bo2bo2$14bo$b2o11bo2b
o$bo5b2o3b2ob2o$2b3o2b2o3b3o$4bo8bo$2b2o$2bo$3bo8b2o$2b2o8b2o!

There is a Coe's p8, but the reflector works in any phase because all the Coe's p8 does is turn a beehive back into a block.
Still, a truly stable device can be more useful in some cases. The repeat time of a functionally stable device will always be higher than the period of the periodic object, so if the periodic object is high-period it can be useful to make it stable.

EDIT: Also, if a functionally stable device is used in a larger oscillator, to prevent the period of the entire pattern from being an LCM, the periodic object would have to be a factor of the entire period. If there is a truly stable completion of the device, it can be used for any period without making the pattern an LCM, which is especially useful if the period is a large prime.