Thread for your script-related questions

[PK22]

Is it possible to make apgsearch not include sample soups when uploading to Catagolue?

In theory yes, but why? One of the main purposes of Catagolue is to store soups for each object that occurs in a census. It seems pointless to not want to upload sample soups.
Note that by running apgluxe with -t 1 as an argument, you can have it save a local log without uploading to Catagolue, which might serve a similar purpose to what you intend here.

[I6_I6]

Apologies if this isn't the right place for this post.
How do I tell Golly which folder to look in to find ruletables for RuleLoader? Where does Golly look in in the first place, so I can move my rules folder there?
It used to work fine when I had Golly 4.3 but stopped working after I changed to Golly 5.0.
I currently have the folder containing the .rule files in Desktop.
(I use macOS.)

[PK22]

Apologies if this isn't the right place for this post.
How do I tell Golly which folder to look in to find ruletables for RuleLoader? Where does Golly look in in the first place, so I can move my rules folder there?
It used to work fine when I had Golly 4.3 but stopped working after I changed to Golly 5.0.
I currently have the folder containing the .rule files in Desktop.
(I use macOS.)

The folder where Golly looks for rules should be stored globally, and set in the GollyPrefs file, which is used by all versions of Golly on a given computer. All of the rules that Golly 4.3 had access to should be avaliable by Golly 5.0, but if you need to change where Golly looks, find your GollyPrefs file. I don't know where it is on MacOS, but you could download a file finder to search for it, or run 'ls / -R > files.txt' to list all files on your system, then search through the output text file.

[102564]

Given the root, MD5, rule, symmetry, and soup ID of an example soup from a log saved by apgsearch, how do I find the actual soup?

Specifically, I'm trying to find the soup that is:

• root k_L5mVxzcCcHGU
• MD5 939b391f9323b349aa01eaf5706f1ca7
• rule B2e3cijqy4c/S2-in3an4y
• symmetry D4_x1
• soup ID 9865409

This soup apparently produces a zz_EXPLOSIVE, but the haul didn't upload to Catagolue due to bad internet connection.

[PK22]

Given the root, MD5, rule, symmetry, and soup ID of an example soup from a log saved by apgsearch, how do I find the actual soup?

Specifically, I'm trying to find the soup that is:

• root k_L5mVxzcCcHGU
• MD5 939b391f9323b349aa01eaf5706f1ca7
• rule B2e3cijqy4c/S2-in3an4y
• symmetry D4_x1
• soup ID 9865409

This soup apparently produces a zz_EXPLOSIVE, but the haul didn't upload to Catagolue due to bad internet connection.

To find a specific soup, go to this URL:

Code: Select all

https://catagolue.hatsya.com/hashsoup/<root>+<soup ID>/<rule>/<symmetry>

Note that <root>+<soup id> requires you to concatenation the two, and that <rule> needs to be in non-slashed form.

[102564]

Going to https://catagolue.hatsya.com/hashsoup/k ... an4y/D4_x1 gave me the following RLE, which seems to be wrong:

Code: Select all

 x = 16, y = 16, rule = d4_x1
booobooobbobbboo$
bboboobbbooobbbb$
oboboboooboobobb$
oobooobooobboboo$
ooobboobbobobbob$
bbobbbbbobbbbbbo$
booobbboboobbbbb$
oboobbobobbbobbb$
obboobbbbbobobbb$
oobobobbbboooboo$
oooooobboobbbobo$
oooooboobboobobb$
bbooooooboobbbbo$
obooobbobobobobo$
oobbboooboobbbbo$
bbooboobobboboob!

[PK22]

Going to https://catagolue.hatsya.com/hashsoup/k ... an4y/D4_x1 gave me the following RLE, which seems to be wrong:

Code: Select all

 x = 16, y = 16, rule = d4_x1
booobooobbobbboo$
bboboobbbooobbbb$
oboboboooboobobb$
oobooobooobboboo$
ooobboobbobobbob$
bbobbbbbobbbbbbo$
booobbboboobbbbb$
oboobbobobbbobbb$
obboobbbbbobobbb$
oobobobbbboooboo$
oooooobboobbbobo$
oooooboobboobobb$
bbooooooboobbbbo$
obooobbobobobobo$
oobbboooboobbbbo$
bbooboobobboboob!

Sorry, wrong order. The correct order is:

Code: Select all

https://catagolue.hatsya.com/hashsoup/<symmetry>/<root>+<soup_num>/<rule>

Here is the RLE I got, but it doesn't seem to be a ZZ_EXPLOSIVE - it does produce a p48 which looks like it might be difficult to separate:

Code: Select all

x = 31, y = 31, rule = B2e3cijqy4c/S2-in3an4y
boobobobbobbbooobbbobbobobbooob$
obbobooboobbobboooobbbboooobobo$
obbbbbobbooboobobobbooobobooboo$
bobbbbobobbbboooboobbooboobbobo$
obbbboobboobbbbobbbobbbooobboob$
bobbooboboooboooobbooooooooobob$
ooooobobobobbbooooobobbbooooooo$
bbbbbobobbbbobbobbboobooboobbob$
bobobbobboobooboboobbbboboboobo$
oooboobboobooboobobooobbboboobb$
bbobooobobboobbobobbbobooobbobb$
bbbbbobbboobooobobobboboboobbbo$
boobbbbooooobbbbbbbobbobobbobob$
oboobobbobbobooooobbooobobbooob$
obboboobbobobooooobobbbboobbbob$
ooooooooooobbooboobbooooooooooo$
bobbboobbbbobooooobobobboobobbo$
booobbobooobbooooobobbobboboobo$
bobobbobobbobbbbbbbooooobbbboob$
obbboobobobboboboooboobbbobbbbb$
bbobbooobobbbobobboobbobooobobb$
bboobobbboooboboobooboobboobooo$
oboobobobbbboobobooboobbobbobob$
bobboobooboobbbobbobbbbobobbbbb$
ooooooobbbobooooobbbobobobooooo$
bobooooooooobbooooboooboboobbob$
boobbooobbbobbbobbbboobboobbbbo$
obobbooboobboobooobbbbobobbbbob$
ooboobobooobbobobooboobbobbbbbo$
oboboooobbbboooobbobbooboobobbo$
booobbobobbobbbooobbbobboboboob!

[synperiplanar]

is it possible to pipe barrister or silk to apgluxe

[PK22]

is it possible to pipe barrister or silk to apgluxe

I haven’t been able to get either of these programs working, but as a general rule, if a program prints RLEs to the command line, you can clone apgmera into the same directory as the executable program and pipe the RLEs by running the following:

Code: Select all

git clone https://gitlab.com/apgmera/apgoucher
./apgmera/recompile.sh <arguments>
./<program_name> <arguments> | ./apgluxe <arguments>

[Katrina]

Would it be possible to make a database for slmake with any INT rule?

[102564]

How could I search a rule like B3ai4cet5c6c7c/S2a3-kqr4eqt5i6cei78? There are a lot of high-period oscillators, but the rule is explosive. (It does stabilize on a torus.) Normal apgsearch can't work because of the explosiveness. apgspaceinvaders works pretty quickly, but because almost every soup will either explode or settle down nearly immediately into blocks and preblocks, it is very limited in what it can find. I also tried making a stdin symmetry with soups like the following, and apgsearch can find some oscillators, but it is very slow (~4 soups/second) and often logs "Failed to detect periodic behavior!". Blocks are indestructible, so the stdin soup cannot explode. The example soup turns into a p794.

Code: Select all

x = 50, y = 50, rule = b3ai4cet5c6c7cs2a3-kqr4eqt5i6cei78
2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o$2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o5$2o46b2o$2o46b2o5$2o46b2o$2o46b2o4$20b2o5bo$2o15bo2bob4o3b2obo15b2o$2o15bo5bobo2bo2bo16b2o$17bo4bobobobo2bo$17bob5ob2ob2o2bo$17b2o2bob3ob3o$19b2o3b5o2bo$2o15bobob9ob2o15b2o$2o16b2o2bo2b2obo19b2o$19b2ob6ob4o$19bo4bo2b3o2bo$19bo5b5ob2o$18b2ob2ob2o3bobo$2o15b2ob2o6bob2o16b2o$2o15bob2ob3o2b3obo16b2o$17bobob3ob5o2bo4$2o46b2o$2o46b2o5$2o46b2o$2o46b2o5$2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o$2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o4b2o!

p460 from manual searching:

Code: Select all

x = 62, y = 31, rule = B3ai4cet5c6c7c/S2a3-kqr4eqt5i6cei78
43b2o$43b2o5$24b2o$25bo2$23b3o$34b2o$24bo9bo2$16b2o6bo6b2o$16b2o5b3o5b
2o27b2o$24bo36bo2$60b2o$60b2o$2o$o2$20b2o5b2o14b2o$20b2o5b2o14b2o$6b2o
27bo$6bo27b2o3$26bo$25b2o25bo$52b2o!

Here is the RLE I got, but it doesn't seem to be a ZZ_EXPLOSIVE - it does produce a p48 which looks like it might be difficult to separate:

Code: Select all

x = 31, y = 31, rule = B2e3cijqy4c/S2-in3an4y
boobobobbobbbooobbbobbobobbooob$
obbobooboobbobboooobbbboooobobo$
obbbbbobbooboobobobbooobobooboo$
bobbbbobobbbboooboobbooboobbobo$
obbbboobboobbbbobbbobbbooobboob$
bobbooboboooboooobbooooooooobob$
ooooobobobobbbooooobobbbooooooo$
bbbbbobobbbbobbobbboobooboobbob$
bobobbobboobooboboobbbboboboobo$
oooboobboobooboobobooobbboboobb$
bbobooobobboobbobobbbobooobbobb$
bbbbbobbboobooobobobboboboobbbo$
boobbbbooooobbbbbbbobbobobbobob$
oboobobbobbobooooobbooobobbooob$
obboboobbobobooooobobbbboobbbob$
ooooooooooobbooboobbooooooooooo$
bobbboobbbbobooooobobobboobobbo$
booobbobooobbooooobobbobboboobo$
bobobbobobbobbbbbbbooooobbbboob$
obbboobobobboboboooboobbbobbbbb$
bbobbooobobbbobobboobbobooobobb$
bboobobbboooboboobooboobboobooo$
oboobobobbbboobobooboobbobbobob$
bobboobooboobbbobbobbbbobobbbbb$
ooooooobbbobooooobbbobobobooooo$
bobooooooooobbooooboooboboobbob$
boobbooobbbobbbobbbboobboobbbbo$
obobbooboobboobooobbbbobobbbbob$
ooboobobooobbobobooboobbobbbbbo$
oboboooobbbboooobbobbooboobobbo$
booobbobobbobbbooobbbobboboboob!

That's strange - apgsearch running B2e3cijqy4c/S2-in3an4y has successfully separated thousands of different oscillators which are composed of interacting copies of the common p12, p24, and/or p48 (as well as duoplets/blocks). Also, long-lasting soups seem to be very rare in B2e3cijqy4c/S2-in3an4y, so the periodicity should've been detected, just as it has been in very many other soups.

Edit: 2c/4 from rlifesrc

Code: Select all

x = 5, y = 11, rule = B3ai4cet5c6c7c/S2a3-kqr4eqt5i6cei78
bobo$5o$bo2$bo$b4o$bo2$bo$5o$bobo!

[synperiplanar]

this happened when trying to run make on barrister

Code: Select all

In file included from Barrister.cpp:12:
./LifeStableState.hpp:833:12: warning: unused variable 'result' [-Wunused-variable]
  833 |       auto result = SynchroniseStateKnownColumn(c);
      |            ^~~~~~
In file included from Barrister.cpp:13:
./LifeUnknownState.hpp:144:43: warning: unused parameter 'stable' [-Wunused-parameter]
  144 |   void SanityCheck(const LifeStableState &stable) {
      |                                           ^
./LifeUnknownState.hpp:215:14: warning: unused variable 'on3' [-Wunused-variable]
  215 |     uint64_t on3 = stateCount.bit3[i];
      |              ^~~
./LifeUnknownState.hpp:216:14: warning: unused variable 'on2' [-Wunused-variable]
  216 |     uint64_t on2 = stateCount.bit2[i];
      |              ^~~
./LifeUnknownState.hpp:217:14: warning: unused variable 'on1' [-Wunused-variable]
  217 |     uint64_t on1 = stateCount.bit1[i];
      |              ^~~
./LifeUnknownState.hpp:218:14: warning: unused variable 'on0' [-Wunused-variable]
  218 |     uint64_t on0 = stateCount.bit0[i];
      |              ^~~
./LifeUnknownState.hpp:220:14: warning: unused variable 'unk3' [-Wunused-variable]
  220 |     uint64_t unk3 = unknownCount.bit3[s][i];
      |              ^~~~
./LifeUnknownState.hpp:221:14: warning: unused variable 'unk2' [-Wunused-variable]
  221 |     uint64_t unk2 = unknownCount.bit2[s][i];
      |              ^~~~
./LifeUnknownState.hpp:222:14: warning: unused variable 'unk1' [-Wunused-variable]
  222 |     uint64_t unk1 = unknownCount.bit1[s][i];
      |              ^~~~
./LifeUnknownState.hpp:223:14: warning: unused variable 'unk0' [-Wunused-variable]
  223 |     uint64_t unk0 = unknownCount.bit0[s][i];
      |              ^~~~
./LifeUnknownState.hpp:265:12: warning: unused variable 'stateon' [-Wunused-variable]
  265 |   uint64_t stateon = state[i];
      |            ^~~~~~~
./LifeUnknownState.hpp:266:12: warning: unused variable 'stateunk' [-Wunused-variable]
  266 |   uint64_t stateunk = unknown[i];
      |            ^~~~~~~~
./LifeUnknownState.hpp:267:12: warning: unused variable 'stateunkstable' [-Wunused-variable]
  267 |   uint64_t stateunkstable = unknownStable[i];
      |            ^~~~~~~~~~~~~~
./LifeUnknownState.hpp:271:12: warning: unused variable 'stable_on' [-Wunused-variable]
  271 |   uint64_t stable_on = stable.state[i];
      |            ^~~~~~~~~
./LifeUnknownState.hpp:272:12: warning: unused variable 'stable_unknown' [-Wunused-variable]
  272 |   uint64_t stable_unknown = stable.unknown[i];
      |            ^~~~~~~~~~~~~~
./LifeUnknownState.hpp:358:14: warning: unused variable 'on3' [-Wunused-variable]
  358 |     uint64_t on3 = state3[i-1];
      |              ^~~
./LifeUnknownState.hpp:370:14: warning: unused variable 'stable_on' [-Wunused-variable]
  370 |     uint64_t stable_on = nearbyStableState[i];
      |              ^~~~~~~~~
./LifeUnknownState.hpp:371:14: warning: unused variable 'stable_unknown' [-Wunused-variable]
  371 |     uint64_t stable_unknown = nearbyStableUnknown[i];
      |              ^~~~~~~~~~~~~~
In file included from Barrister.cpp:14:
./RotorDescription.hpp:26:13: warning: enumeration values 'NORESULT', 'STABLE', and 'OTHER' not handled in switch [-Wswitch]
   26 |     switch (type) {
      |             ^~~~
./RotorDescription.hpp:51:48: warning: unused parameter 'resType' [-Wunused-parameter]
   51 |                                      RotorType resType) {
      |                                                ^
./RotorDescription.hpp:86:13: warning: 8 enumeration values not handled in switch: 'ReflectAcrossXEven', 'ReflectAcrossYEven', 'Rotate90Even'... [-Wswitch]
   86 |     switch (transf) {
      |             ^~~~~~
Barrister.cpp:300:22: warning: unused parameter 'everActive' [-Wunused-parameter]
  300 |     const LifeState &everActive,
      |                      ^
Barrister.cpp:301:51: warning: unused parameter 'activeTimer' [-Wunused-parameter]
  301 |     const LifeCountdown<maxCellActiveWindowGens> &activeTimer,
      |                                                   ^
Barrister.cpp:302:51: warning: unused parameter 'streakTimer' [-Wunused-parameter]
  302 |     const LifeCountdown<maxCellActiveStreakGens> &streakTimer)
      |                                                   ^
24 warnings generated.
/usr/bin/ld: Warning: grouped short command line options are deprecated: -stack_size
/usr/bin/ld: Error: unable to disambiguate: -stack_size (did you mean --stack_size ?)
clang++: error: linker command failed with exit code 1 (use -v to see invocation)
make: *** [Makefile:20: Barrister] Error 

how fix

[hth3]

Why do I need a Google account for a Catagolue PAYOSHA256 key? I can't create another Google account (it forces me to enter my phone number, and I tried, but it doesn't work), and I don't want to use my personal account. Can't I just create an account with email and password? Is there a reason?

[b-engine]

Why do I need a Google account for a Catagolue PAYOSHA256 key? I can't create another Google account (it forces me to enter my phone number, and I tried, but it doesn't work), and I don't want to use my personal account. Can't I just create an account with email and password? Is there a reason?

payosha256 stands for "payment over SHA256". Since it's "payment", security is a big concern. Therefore an account is needed for security reasons.
Catagolue can't just replace the payosha256 system.

[hth3]

Why do I need a Google account for a Catagolue PAYOSHA256 key? I can't create another Google account (it forces me to enter my phone number, and I tried, but it doesn't work), and I don't want to use my personal account. Can't I just create an account with email and password? Is there a reason?

payosha256 stands for "payment over SHA256". Since it's "payment", security is a big concern. Therefore an account is needed for security reasons.
Catagolue can't just replace the payosha256 system.

Can't it just use a CAPTCHA and send a verification email? That pretty much suffices for security. Most sites do that.
Also, you need to pay to use Catagolue non-anonymously?

[b-engine]

Can't it just use a CAPTCHA and send a verification email? That pretty much suffices for security. Most sites do that.

Catagolue can't switch to another method or else thousands of accounts will fail.

Also, you need to pay to use Catagolue non-anonymously?

No, even though payosha256 was (maybe) meant for payments. Cellular automata community never make profit.

[hth3]

Can't it just use a CAPTCHA and send a verification email? That pretty much suffices for security. Most sites do that.

Catagolue can't switch to another method or else thousands of accounts will fail.

I didn't say it needs to switch, just make it so you can either sign up with Google or email+CAPTCHA. I didn't say to completely ditch Google, --->I<--- (and probably a few other people) just want to use it without Google.

[102564]

How can I find example soups in inflated symmetries, given the root, soup number, rule, and symmetry? Specifically, I'm looking for soup 79 in b3ai4cet5c6c7cs2a3-kqr4eqt5i6cei78/iD2_+1, and the haul root is k_PaUnKuiRbQKB. The soup apparently produces the object yl40_1_6_08409c1b373d45ce0ab51b06366f6445, which is the only yl I have gotten from apgsearching any symmetry of the rule. Going to https://catagolue.hatsya.com/hashsoup/i ... qt5i6cei78 gave me the following URL, which is not in the iD2_+1 symmetry and produces a 117-tick diehard instead:

Code: Select all

x = 16, y = 16, rule = B3ai4cet5c6c7c/S2a3-kqr4eqt5i6cei78
ooooboobobbbbbbo$
oboobbboboobbobb$
bboobbooooboobob$
bobbbooboobobobo$
bbbbobboobbobobo$
bbbbboobooboooob$
ooooobooobobbobo$
obobbobbboobbobo$
obbobooboooobbob$
oobobooobobobobb$
bobboooooooobooo$
oooobbooooboobbo$
bobbbbobbbbooboo$
obboboobobooobbo$
ooboobbobobboboo$
boobbooboooooboo!

Sidenote: why does apgsearch keep getting stuck while searching b3ai4cet5c6c7cs2a3-kqr4eqt5i6cei78/iD2_+1? I already modified it to reject soups whose populations rise above 4000 (which should eliminate soups that result in explosions). It also gets stuck while searching D4_+2 and a few other symmetries, though not as quickly, with the 4000 population modification, and it searches D2_+1, D4_+1, and D8_1 without getting stuck.

[I6_I6]

What's the best way to search for sparkers in rlifesrc?

[yaochen2]

Just wondering, but how do i use CATforce to find oscillators, including symmetric ones? It's too confusing for me. Also how do you use LLS to find catalysts?

[PK22]

How can I compile a slow-salvo recipe into a single-channel recipe that uses a 0-degree elbow?
EDIT: Yes, I meant a 0-degree elbow.

[dvgrn]

How can I compile a slow-salvo recipe into a single-channel recipe that uses a 0hd elbow?

Do you mean a zero-degree elbow? A 0hd elbow is a now-ancient piece of technology found almost nowhere except in the old 0hd Demonoid (and now the Thessalonic Demonoid I suppose).

This was such old information that it had completely fallen out of my head, but the LifeWiki slsparse tutorial says under "More Features" that

"If a sufficiently narrow metacluster is in the construction danger zone, with the required construction gliders no farther to the side than +/-107hd from the single-channel lane, then slsparse will automatically generate a 0-degree elbow and produce the required gliders directly instead of using Snarkmaker / Snarkbreaker pairs."

If you're lucky, then simply feeding slsparse a sufficiently narrow slow salvo will create a zero-degree-elbow recipe. I seem to remember I've seen some highly unexpected behavior from slsparse in cases like these sometimes, but that was quite a few years and versions ago.

If that doesn't work, I always used to compile them semi-manually, with the help of a fairly simple script -- compile-0-degree-recipe.py.

[Sokwe]

how do you use LLS to find catalysts?

If you're asking how to find periodic catalysts, I gave a brief tutorial here. For stable catalysts I recommend other search programs such as barrister or silk, but this method can also be used to find limited stable catalysts with LLS.

Also, I moved your post to the script-related questions thread.

[ThePlayzr]

are there any search programs that can run searches for high-period oscillators (p9 at the very least, p13 would be good and I would hope for and be really happy if there is p17+) in non-totalistic rules?

[b-engine]

are there any search programs that can run searches for high-period oscillators (p9 at the very least, p13 would be good and I would hope for and be really happy if there is p17+) in non-totalistic rules?

Even if there's one, you'd need a supercomputer or at least three gaming computers to do such search; the search space is simply too large.