Thread for basic questions

[PK22]

That seems more accurate - I can typically manage 170k soups/second at best.

Also, please do not worry about uploading to Catagolue. As long as you are not using a heavily modified program (based on the haul you uploaded, your program seems fine, and symmetries with lots of objects get subjected to peer review and other tests, so a faulty program would likely not have its hauls added to the census. It could wrongly reject good hauls though, which is a slight problem) and you are not uploading too frequently, nothing is likely to go wrong. Test hauls are a good idea, but usually only if you are searching another rule and want to know if it is apgsearchable or not (which I did with B36n7e/S2-i3 for example. It was just barely apgsearchable), or if you are searching a custom stdin symmetry.
Your payosha256 key is yours. As long as it does not upload under an inappropriate nickname, you can freely use it to upload to any rule and symmetry. (Provided, of course, that the symmetry is sensible - no inappropriately named custom symmetries or spam symmetries.)

[SharkNose]

Thanks, PK22. I ran the 1B soup haul, but it took 2 hours to finish! Averaged about 170K soups per second. I'm more comfortable with hauls that don't last more than 10 minutes. I plan to stay within the boundaries of known rules and symmetries. I remember the commandment from LifeWiki: "Don't break Catagolue"!

[Resu]

Can an angel track/loop be made with sparkers?

[ThePlayzr]

Can an angel track/loop be made with sparkers?

Yes:

Code: Select all

x = 42, y = 42, rule = B3/S23
19bo$17b3o$16bo7b2o$16bo2b3obo2bo$13b2obobo2bob2o2bo$13bo2bobo6b2o$15b
o4b3obo$16b2o3bo2bo$18b2o3bo$14b3o4bob4o$13bo2b5obo4bo$14bo4bobo2b3o$
15b3o4bobo$4b2o4bo6bob2ob2o$4bo4bobo6b6o7bo5bo$6bo2bo2bo6b3o8bobo3bob
o$2b4obob2obo17bobo3bo2bo$bo5bo2bob2o15b2obob2obobo$bo2b2o2bobo3bo6bo
2bo2b2o3b2o3b2o$2obo4bob2ob3o6bobo2b3obo3bo$3bo2bo3bo2b3o6b3ob2o2bobo
b2ob2o$3b2ob2obobo2b2ob3o6b3o2bo3bo2bo$6bo3bob3o2bobo6b3ob2obo4bob2o$
3b2o3b2o3b2o2bo2bo6bo3bobo2b2o2bo$2bobob2obob2o15b2obo2bo5bo$2bo2bo3b
obo17bob2obob4o$3bobo3bobo8b3o6bo2bo2bo$4bo5bo7b6o6bobo4bo$18b2ob2obo
6bo4b2o$17bobo4b3o$15b3o2bobo4bo$14bo4bob5o2bo$15b4obo4b3o$18bo3b2o$17b
o2bo3b2o$17bob3o4bo$15b2o6bobo2bo$14bo2b2obo2bobob2o$15bo2bob3o2bo$16b
2o7bo$22b3o$22bo!

[Resu]

Can an angel track/loop be made with sparkers?

Yes:

What about a hassler of this?

Code: Select all

x = 5, y = 4, rule = B3/S23
2bo$2ob2o$bobo$2b2o!

[ThePlayzr]

How do I add a wiki page that is under my name? For example, User:PK22/OCA:Travelling Ts

[PK22]

How do I add a wiki page that is under my name? For example, User:PK22/OCA:Travelling Ts

Just search for your desired title - e.g 'User:ThePlayzr/<whatever you want the title to be>'. It will tell you that "There is currently no text in this page. You can search for this page title in other pages, search the related logs, or create this page.". Then you can create the page.

[Resu]

What is this patterns' growth rate?

Code: Select all

x = 129, y = 173, rule = B3/S23
19b3o17b3o27bo4b3o18b3o17b3o$14b2ob2obo19bob2ob2o21b3o2bo2bo13b2ob2ob
o19bob2ob2o$14b2o4bob2o13b2obo4b2o14b3o4bob2o4bo13b2o4bob2o13b2obo4b2o
$13bo2bo3bobobo11bobobo3bo2bo12bo2bo5b4o3bo12bo2bo3bobobo11bobobo3bo2b
o$20bobobob2o5b2obobobo22bo5b3o4bo19bobobob2o5b2obobobo$18bo3bobob2o5b
2obobo3bo16bo3bo9bobo18bo3bobob2o5b2obobo3bo$19bobobob3o5b3obobobo17b
o3bo31bobobob3o5b3obobobo$63bo4bo$23b3o9b3o22bobo5bo30b3o9b3o$23b3obo
bobobob3o30bo30b3obobobobob3o$24b5obob5o63b5obob5o$29bobo36bo36bobo$29b
3o36bo36b3o$26bobo3bobo33bo33bobo3bobo2$24b2ob3ob3ob2o31bo31b2ob3ob3o
b2o$24bo11bo31bo31bo11bo$23bo2bo7bo2bo30bo30bo2bo7bo2bo$23bo4bo3bo4bo
61bo4bo3bo4bo$28bo3bo35bo35bo3bo$22b6o5b6o29bo29b6o5b6o$21b2o7bo7b2o28b
o28b2o7bo7b2o$29bobo73bobo$29b3o12bo9bo13bo13bo9bo12b3o$42b4o7b4o11bo
11b4o7b4o$18bo19b2ob2o3bo5bo3b2ob2o7bo7b2ob2o3bo5bo3b2ob2o19bo$16b4o18b
2o2bo3bo5bo3bo2b2o15b2o2bo3bo5bo3bo2b2o18b4o$12b2ob2o3bo3bo12bo2bo7bo
bo7bo2bo13bo2bo7bobo7bo2bo12bo3bo3b2ob2o$12b2o2bo5b4o19bo2bobo2bo29bo
2bobo2bo19b4o5bo2b2o$11bo2bo7bo3bo17b3obobob3o27b3obobob3o17bo3bo7bo2b
o$20bo2bobo85bobo2bo$21bo7b3o14b2o3b2o31b2o3b2o14b3o7bo$32b2o12b2o3b2o
31b2o3b2o12b2o$28bo4bo12bobobobo31bobobobo12bo4bo$28bo4bo11b2obobob2o
29b2obobob2o11bo4bo$28bo3bo12b2obobob2o29b2obobob2o12bo3bo$30bo17bobo
35bobo17bo$44bo9bo27bo9bo$45bo7bo29bo7bo3$44bo47bo$45b2o43b2o$44b2o45b
2o26$8b3o17b3o$3b2ob2obo19bob2ob2o$3b2o4bob2o13b2obo4b2o$2bo2bo3bobob
o11bobobo3bo2bo$9bobobob2o5b2obobobo28bobo15bobo$7bo3bobob2o5b2obobo3b
o27b2o15b2o$8bobobob3o5b3obobobo28bo17bo2$12b3o9b3o$12b3obobobobob3o21b
3o35b3o$13b5obob5o18bob2o3bo33bo3b2obo$18bobo22b3o3b3o2b3o23b3o2b3o3b
3o$18b3o21bo3bo4b3obobo21bobob3o4bo3bo$15bobo3bobo19bo7bo4bo23bo4bo7b
o$52b2o29b2o$13b2ob3ob3ob2o$13bo11bo$12bo2bo7bo2bo$12bo4bo3bo4bo$17bo
3bo76b3o17b3o$11b6o5b6o65b2ob2obo19bob2ob2o$10b2o15b2o64b2o4bob2o13b2o
bo4b2o$19bo72bo2bo3bobobo11bobobo3bo2bo$17b2ob2o11bo9bo55bobobob2o5b2o
bobobo$18bobo10b4o7b4o51bo3bobob2o5b2obobo3bo$7bo11bo7b2ob2o3bo5bo3b2o
b2o48bobobob3o5b3obobobo$5b4o18b2o2bo3bo5bo3bo2b2o$b2ob2o3bo3bo12bo2b
o7bobo7bo2bo51b3o9b3o$b2o2bo5b4o19bo2bobo2bo59b3obobobobob3o$o2bo7bo3b
o17b3obobob3o59b5obob5o$9bo2bobo51b2ob2o37bobo$10bo24b2o3b2o24b2ob2o37b
3o$35b2o3b2o63bobo3bobo$22b2o11bobobobo$17b2o4b2o9b2obobob2o60b2ob3ob
3ob2o$17b2o3b2o10b2obobob2o60bo11bo$17b2o3bo14bobo62bo2bo7bo2bo$33bo9b
o58bo4bo3bo4bo$34bo7bo64bo3bo$101b6o5b6o$100b2o7bo7b2o$108bobo$85bo9b
o12b3o$83b4o7b4o$79b2ob2o3bo5bo3b2ob2o19bo$79b2o2bo3bo5bo3bo2b2o18b4o
$78bo2bo7bobo7bo2bo12bo3bo3b2ob2o$86bo2bobo2bo19b4o5bo2b2o$66b2ob2o14b
3obobob3o17bo3bo7bo2bo$66b2ob2o43bobo2bo$87b2o3b2o14b3o7bo$87b2o3b2o12b
2o$87bobobobo12bo4bo$86b2obobob2o11bo4bo$86b2obobob2o12bo3bo$89bobo17b
o$85bo9bo$86bo7bo2$40bobo$41b2o52bo$41bo51b2o$94b2o4$66b2ob2o$66b2ob2o
17$66b2ob2o$66b2ob2o5$54bo$55b2o$54b2o23bobo$79b2o$80bo8$66b2ob2o$66b
2ob2o!

[PK22]

What is this patterns' growth rate?

Code: Select all

rle

Here are the distances between the 'blobs' of ash:
Section 1-2: 468
Section 2-3: 1404, or 468 * 3
Section 3-4: 4412, or 468 * 3 * 3
Section n-n+1: 468 * 3^(n-1)

Hence, the time it takes to produce each new ash blob is proportionate to 3^kt, where k is a constant and t is the number of generations.
I think this means that it grows proportionately to log(t), but I am not certain.
I tried plotting the population at certain points using Desmos, and it seems like I can approximate the shape of the curve using y = 1626 + log3(x/936)*339.

[Resu]

Here are the distances between the 'blobs' of ash:
Section 1-2: 468
Section 2-3: 1404, or 468 * 3
Section 3-4: 4412, or 468 * 3 * 3
Section n-n+1: 468 * 3^(n-1)

What if a puffer was created every time the ash was created?

[PK22]

Here are the distances between the 'blobs' of ash:
Section 1-2: 468
Section 2-3: 1404, or 468 * 3
Section 3-4: 4412, or 468 * 3 * 3
Section n-n+1: 468 * 3^(n-1)

What if a puffer was created every time the ash was created?

Then it would be tlog(t), since ash is created proportionate to log(t), and a puffer grows proportionate to t. Assuming, of course, that the puffer grows linearly.

[pifricted]

Is there a rule is CU but no demonoid or orthogonoid, becauce to build any things need an even larger object to store?

[Resu]

Is there a rule is CU but no demonoid or orthogonoid, becauce to build any things need an even larger object to store?

What's a CU?

[PK22]

What's a CU?

CU means 'construction universal' - in other words, the rule supports universal computation.

Is there a rule is CU but no demonoid or orthogonoid, becauce to build any things need an even larger object to store?

If the construction recipe consists of spaceships, probably not - you can use two identical constructors and loop the recipe between them, similar to Gemini, and since the recipe travels through a vacuum, it can be arbitrarily large.

Wire-based construction might be more difficult to prove or disprove.

[Resu]

Are there any c/4 diagonal-stretchable fuses that when it burns to the wickstretcher, it still allows the wickstretcher to continue wickstretching?

[Sokwe]

Are there any c/4 diagonal-stretchable fuses that when it burns to the wickstretcher, it still allows the wickstretcher to continue wickstretching?

Yes, this can be achieved by combining the crab boatstretcher with a dot sparker, which is the basis for the p2268+4N dirty rake and the p472 engineless rake. Here is the "glider advancer" from the p472 rake that cleanly demonstrates the mechanism:

Code: Select all

x = 107, y = 136, rule = B3/S23
64b2o6b2o$64bobo3b3obo$64bo4b2o$65b2o$59bo5bo4bo$58b6o5bo$58bo8bo$22b
3o26b3o5b3ob3o$22bo14b3o4b2obo2b4o4b3o$23bo11b2o3bob2o3bobo8bo$25b2o7b
o3b3o2bo4b2obo2b3obo$26bo6bo4bo3bo2bo3b2o3bo$18b2o13bo3bo2bob3obo2b2o$
17b2o4b2o3bobobo6b2o2bo2bo$19bo2bo2bobo2bob5o2b2obo4bo$13bo8bo2b3o3b3o
b2o3bobo4bo$12b2o6b2o3bo4b3o9b2o3bo$12bobo2b4ob2o2b2o2b2o10b3ob2o$16b
5o6bo15bo2bo$15bo2bo5bo2bo3bo13bo24b2o$8b2o10bo3b2o5bo38bobo$7b2o8bobo
2bo2bo44bobo$9bo7bob2obob2obo43b3o$11b2o3bo3bo4bobo29bo13bobo$10bo6bo
16bo13b2ob2o3b2o13b3o$33b2o12b2o7bobo12b2o$9bo2bo5bo2bo11bobo4b2o6bobo
2bo18bo$b2o5b2o2bobo24bo2bo2b3o3b2o5bobo5bo4b3o$2o5bo5bobo20b2obo4bo3b
o4bo2b2ob2o4b5o6bo$2bo4bobo4bobo19b2obo4bo2bo5b6o6bo6b2ob2o$4b2o2bo6bo
bo19bo2bo3b2o2bo7b2o$4b2o10bobo18b4o3b3o9b2o7bob2o$17bobo17bo2bob2o2bo
2b2o5bo9bo$18bobo15bob2o5b3ob2o3b3o$19bobo13bo3bo2bo3bo4bobobo9b2o$20b
obo7b3o5bo4bobobo3bo2bo7b2ob2o$21bobo6bo2b2o9b6o3bo7bo3bo$22bobo6bobo
2bo7b3o2bo10b2o2bo$23bobo7b2obo7bo5b2o7bo$24bobo7b2o19b2o2bobo$25bobo
6bo20bobo2bo$26bobo7b2o13bo3bobo$27bobo20b2o4b2o$28bobo6bobo10bobo3b2o
$29bobo23b3o$30bobo6bobob3o7bo3bo$31bobo13bo4b2o2bo$32bobo6bo9bo$33bob
o6b4ob2ob4o$34bobo15b2o$20b2o2bo10bobo$19b2o4bo10bobo$21b2obo2b3o7bobo
$23b2o2b2obob2o4bobo$30bobobo4bobo$32bo7bobo$33b2o6bobo$42bobo$34bobo
6bobo$36b2o6bobo$31b3o2b2o7bobo$31b3o12bobo$47bobo$30b2o16bobo$30bo18b
obo$50bobo$51bobo$52bobo$53bobo$54bobo$55bobo$56bobo$57bobo$58bobo$59b
obo$60bobo$61bobo$62bobo$63bobo$64bobo$54b3o8bobo$54bo11bobo$55bo11bob
o$68bobo$69bobo$70bobo$71bobo$72bobo$73bobo$74bobo$75bobo$76bobo$77bob
o$78bobo$79bobo$80bobo$81bobo$82bobo$83bobo$84bobo$85bobo16bo$86bobo
15bobo$87bobo14b2o$88bobo$89bobo$90bobo$91bobo$92bobo$93b2o13$98b2o$
98bobo$92b2o4bo$92bobo4bobo$92bo6b3o$95bo$95b2obo2bo$98b4o$90b2o8bo2bo
$90bo2bo5bob3o$90bo3b4ob3o$92bo6bo$93b5o3b3o$94b2obobo$98bo!

[Resu]

Has a 0E0P metacell for 1D CA even been made?

[dvgrn]

Has a 0E0P metacell for 1D CA even been made?

I haven't looked at this for a while, but if memory serves, you can program 0E0P metacells to emulate various 1D two-state range-1 CAs (as long as they don't include B0). Create a non-isotropic rule that updates in place and doesn't care about cells in the row above or the row below, only left and right neighbors.

Use the neighborhood simplifier script to convert that MAP rule to an eight-state von-Neumann-neighborhood rule. That's the rule that will have to be programmed in to 0E0P metacells to get them to emulate that 1D CA.

[Resu]

When was Lifehistory and Lifesuper created?

[dvgrn]

When was Lifehistory and Lifesuper created?

The history of the Rule:LifeSuper page puts the original invention of LifeSuper sometime in January 2020.

Chris Rowett then incorporated LifeSuper into Golly 4.0 in October 2020, and into LifeViewer at around the same time (there was still some troubleshooting going on in December 2020).

LifeHistory goes way back to the early 2000s, before Golly existed. I got Mirek W. to incorporate a "HistoricalLife" multistate rule into MCell 4.20 when MCell was still in active development. The seven-state Golly rule was added shortly after Golly started supporting multistate rules -- it wasn't in Golly 2.0 in 2008, but it was there in Golly 2.1 in September 2009. I seem to recall some version of it was downloadable from the "Rule Table Repository" in the interim.

[Resu]

What's the smallest unsynthesised orthogonal spaceship?
Does this have a name?

Code: Select all

x = 10, y = 12, rule = B3/S23
$6b2o$2bo4bo$2bobobo$2bo$4bo$4bo$2bo$2bobobo$2bo4bo$6b2o!

[WhiteHawk]

What's the smallest unsynthesised orthogonal spaceship?

Here are (I think) all known ships up to 37 bits that are not OWSSs escorted by exactly two standard spaceships and that have no known glider synthesis (Edit: removed MWSS sidewinder and added new ships):

Code: Select all

EDIT by dvgrn: The above was true back in February, but as of July 2025, see this post:

This leaves 35P4H1V1 as the only known unsynthesized spaceship up to 35 bits.

So the 36-bit non-OWSS spaceships seem to be the next orthogonal c/2 targets.

Hope this answers your question.


EDIT:

Does this have a name?

Code: Select all

Yes, xp2_350k0ezok050e is it's name. Probably doesn't need a non-systematic name, and it's simple enough that it probably has been known for a long time.


EDIT 2:

2024 oscillator stamp collection update:

Code: Select all

My question: is there a 2025 oscillator stamp collection yet?

[Resu]

What's the Wechsler format?

[dvgrn]

What's the Wechsler format?

That link doesn't go anywhere. Are you looking for Extended Wechsler format? Or are you asking what the original format was before it got extended?

[Resu]

That link doesn't go anywhere. Are you looking for Extended Wechsler format?

No, I wanted to know about the original one.