Thread for your miscellaneous posts and discussions

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WhiteHawk
Posts: 1388
Joined: July 10th, 2024, 5:34 pm

Re: Thread for your miscellaneous posts and discussions

Post by WhiteHawk »

Freywa wrote: July 3rd, 2021, 6:26 am Given David Raucci's recent discoveries of several small oscillators above the snark limit (p43) and the dishevelled state of the oscillator page on the LifeWiki, I made the following stamp collection of the smallest known non-trivial oscillators:
Updated version of this charts almost 4 years later at the end of March, 2025. Surprising how many oscillators have been replaced within that time (by my calculations, exactly 55 out of 106, or just over half, have been reduced).

Code: Select all

x = 624, y = 401, rule = B3/S23Super
292.2C90.2C75.2C25.2C25.2C44.2C$292.C91.C76.C26.C26.C45.C$292.C91.C76.
C26.C26.C45.C$292.2C90.2C75.2C25.2C25.2C44.2C2$4.D19.3D17.3D19.D16.5D
16.3D16.5D16.3D17.3D17.D3.3D$3.2D18.D3.D15.D3.D17.2D16.D19.D3.D19.D15.
D3.D15.D3.D15.2D2.D3.D$4.D22.D19.D16.D.D16.D19.D22.D16.D3.D15.D3.D16.
D2.D3.D96.5R2.R57.5F2.3F16.5D2.3D27.5D3.D31.5F.5F16.5D2.3D17.5F.5F15.
5F2.3F10.5D2.3D39.3F3.3F$4.D21.D18.2D16.D2.D17.3D16.4D19.D17.3D17.4D16.
D2.D.D.D100.R.2R61.F.F3.F19.D.D3.D30.D2.2D35.F.F24.D.D3.D20.F5.F19.F.
F3.F13.D.D3.D37.F3.F.F3.F$4.D20.D21.D15.5D19.D15.D3.D17.D17.D3.D19.D16.
D2.D3.D99.R3.R60.F6.F18.D6.D29.D2.D.D34.F2.F23.D2.D23.F5.F19.F2.F3.F12.
D2.D3.D37.F3.F.F3.F$4.D19.D18.D3.D18.D16.D3.D15.D3.D17.D17.D3.D15.D3.
D16.D2.D3.D99.R3.R60.F5.F19.D4.2D30.D.D2.D34.F3.3F20.D2.4D20.F5.F19.F
3.3F13.D3.4D38.3F2.F.F.F$3.3D17.5D16.3D19.D17.3D17.3D18.D18.3D17.3D16.
3D2.3D99.R4.R59.F5.F19.D7.D28.D2.5D32.F7.F18.D3.D3.D18.F5.F19.F3.F3.F
11.D7.D37.F3.F.F3.F$290.R4.R59.F4.F20.D3.D3.D28.D5.D33.F3.F3.F18.D3.D
3.D18.F5.F19.F3.F3.F11.D3.D3.D37.F3.F.F3.F$3.200B87.R3.3R58.F3.5F17.D
4.3D29.D5.D33.F4.3F19.D4.3D19.F5.F19.F4.3F12.D4.3D39.3F3.3F2$3.2A19.A
22.A16.2A17.2A23.2A17.2A16.2B17.2A19.B2A100.336B$3.2A18.BAB20.BAB14.A
2.A16.A.B21.B2A2B15.2A16.3B17.A18.2B.A2B$24.A22.AB14.A.A.AB15.B2A21.4B
31.2B2AB17.A.2A15.BA5B119.2B5.2A47.2A12.A44.A15.A15.2A23.A18.A12.2A23.
A54.A10.2A4.2A$46.2A16.A.BAB15.4B21.A2B15.4A12.2B2ABA15.2A.A.A13.4BA2B
A115.B2.3B5.A41.B6.A13.3A42.3A11.3A16.A23.3A14.3A13.A23.3A30.2A18.3A10.
A.A2.A.A$4.A39.A.2B17.3BA17.ABA15.B3.ABAB11.2A.A.B2.A12.4B.A15.B.2B.A
12.BABA2BAB102.2A10.8B.BA.A40.3B2.BA.A16.A6.B37.A9.A19.A.2A23.A3.2B2A
2B3.A15.A21.A5.A29.A18.A15.A2BA$3.A.A37.A4BA16.ABA19.3B13.2AB.A.BA12.
2A.A3BA.A13.A.4B13.3B3A13.2AB.BA103.A.A9.8B.B2A40.5B.B2A16.2A5.3B35.2A
9.2A19.A2B.4B17.2A3.BA2BAB3.2A14.2A20.6A.A29.A17.2A12.BA4BAB$4.A38.AB
.2B40.ABA12.2ABA2B17.A.A2.A15.AB2A2B10.2A.2B3.2A12.B.B.B.B102.AB2.B6.
10B41.3BA5B17.4B.6B34.5B3.5B21.5BAB16.7B2A7B17.A23.A.A28.2A14.5B12.B2A
2B2AB$45.3A41.3B12.3B2A17.A.3A17.B2A2B10.A2.A.2A.A15.AB.B2A102.5B.14B
40.4B2A3B20.10B35.4B.4B22.BA3B2AB18.12B16.3A2BA16.2A2BA2.2A26.2B14.4B
15.2B2A2B$46.B20.B22.ABA11.4B19.A20.3B14.2A.A2.A14.BA2BABAB101.20B40.
4BA4B19.13B32.5B.5B21.3BA4B.B14.16B13.A2.A3B16.ABA2B2A16.2A8.5B11.7B16.
2B$66.2AB22.BAB34.A20.2B18.2A15.A2BA4B99.21B43.6B20.13B31.6B.6B19.4B3A
6B11.18B11.A.A6B16.3BA.A17.A7.6B8.11B6.2A7.D$66.BABA21.2B.A32.2A57.5B
AB99.21BA44.5B20.13B30.7B.7B19.13B10.18B11.A2.A5BA.2A14.2BA3.2A12.A9.
6B5.15B4.A7.B4.B$64.AB2.2BA22.2A92.2BA.2B99.20B2AB44.5B20.12B5.A14.2A
8.7B.7B8.2A9.13B10.18B9.2A.2ABA3B.2A.A15.B3.B2AB11.2A7.7B2.18B.BA.A5.
BA8B$63.B2A2.BA119.2AB98.2AB.18BABAB43.6B19.12B4.A.A3.2A9.A6.6BA2B.2B
A6B6.A11.13B10.16B11.A.A3.BA22.D3.2B14.AB.7B2A3B.19B.2A5.2BA3B5AB$64.
4B57.2A162.A.AB.23B41.4BA4B18.11B3.2BA2B2.A.A8.A.AB2.6B3AB.B3A6B2.BA.
A11.13B10.16B11.A.A5.D20.6B13.3A8BABA25B7.BA2BA3B2A$65.ABA57.A2B161.A
5.B.B2.3B3A6B2.4B40.3B2A4B18.2B3A6B4.4B4.A9.2AB.7BAB2A.2ABA7B.B2A12.2D
5B3A4B9.16B12.A5.B2AB15.A5BABAB11.A2.B.7BA25B9.3BA6B$66.A60.B.BA157.2A
10.2BA3BA3B5.4B38.5BA3B2.2B15.2BABA10B.6B2A.2A.A6.13B.13B13.3D.B.4BA3B
10.5B6.5B18.4A2B12.BA3BA3BAB4.B6.2A4.6BABA13B2A8B10.2B2A4B$123.6ABAB166.
3BA5BA3B5.4B36.2AB.5B3.BAB14.2BA2BA18B.A.2A6.13B.13B12.2BD4.B2A3BAB10.
16B17.ABAB2AB13.AB2A4BA.2B.B2A10.8B2A13BABA6B4.2A5.7BA$123.A5.3B166.3B
A5BA4B5.4B34.A.AB2.3B.D2BABA14.3BABA15B4.A9.13B.13B12.2BD4.BA5B11.16B
17.2A3B2A13.3BA3B2.3A2B2A10.25BA7B.B2.A6.B2AB2A$124.2A.2AB.B2A164.3BA
5BA5B5.4B6.A26.A6.B3.BA3BA10.2A2.2B3A5B.5B3A2B2.2A10.11B3.11B12.2BCDB
4.4B.2BA9.6BA2BA6B18.B.2BAB14.4B2A2.4B.B9.25BABA8B3A8.2A2B$125.A.A3.B
A.A161.2AB.2BA3BAB2.4B5.4B5.3A23.2A11.BA2B.A9.A4.15BABA3B50.2BA2B9.2A
.A7.18B19.4BA19.A3BAB10.2A.19B.3B2A7B.BA11.2B$125.A.A6.A160.A.AB.3B3A
5.4B5.4B7.A37.A.2BAB4.2A.A.18BA2BA2B13.11B3.11B11.2BABA2B11.A7.5BABA2B
ABA5B18.2B3A2B18.A5B9.A.AB.18B2.7B7.2A$126.A7.2A159.A7.5B4.4B5.4B5.2A
10.2A26.A3BAB3.A.2A.2A6B.10BABA2B12.13B.13B10.3BA3B11.2A6.5B2A4B2A5B16.
3B2AB.2A18.3BA2B9.A4.15B5.6B9.A$294.2A10.2A5.4B5.4B4.5B7.A28.ABA2B8.A
4.4B4.6B3A2B12.13B.13B9.4BA4B19.4BA6BA4B17.2A.B2A3B18.B2A3B8.2A6.11B8.
6B7.A$306.A7.4B5.4B5.3A3B.BA.A28.BAB10.A.A2.2BA2B3.11B12.13B.13B9.4BA
4B21.12B19.2B3A2B20.2BA2B18.7B11.5B8.2A$132.2A173.3A5.4B5.4B2.BA3BA2B
.B2A30.2B11.2A3.A.A4.12B9.2AB.7BAB2A.2ABA7B.B2A8.3BA3B20.7B2A7B18.A4B
21.5B19.4B14.2B$132.A176.A6.4B5.5BA5BA3B51.A5.12B8.A.AB2.6B3AB.B3A6B2.
BA.A7.2BABA2B20.2A3.BA2BAB3.2A19.BA2B.B20.B3A17.5B14.2A$133.A183.4B5.
4BA5BA3B57.13B7.A6.6BA2B.2BA6B6.A8.2BA2B22.A3.2B2A2B3.A20.2A3B2A21.B18.
2A17.A$123.2A7.2A184.4B5.3BA5BA3B57.13B6.2A8.7B.7B8.2A7.2BA2B19.3A14.
3A17.B2ABABA41.A18.A$123.A2.AB.2BA187.4B5.3BA3BA2B10.2A47.13B16.7B.7B
18.3B20.A18.A17.2B4A39.3A18.2A$124.2A2B2A2B2A186.4B2.6B3A3B2.B.B5.A50.
10B18.6B.6B19.3B59.B2AB39.A$126.A2B.BA2.A186.23B.BA.A51.6B.4B17.5B.5B
21.B$124.2A7.2A187.BABA18B.B2A53.3B5.2A18.4B.4B$124.A198.B2A20B56.B6.
A17.5B3.5B$125.A198.A21B64.3A14.2A9.2A$124.2A198.21B67.A15.A9.A$323.20B
82.3A11.3A$323.14B.5B82.A15.A$123.2A.2A195.10B6.B2.BA$124.A.AB.2B190.
2AB.8B9.A.A$123.A4.ABAB188.A.AB.8B10.2A$124.4A2BAB188.A5.3B2.B$127.B.
2AB187.2A5.2B$126.A7B$125.A.AB.B.2A$125.2A5.A$133.3A$135.A2$21.2C$21.
C141.2C175.2C32.2C30.2C24.2C31.2C$21.C141.C176.C33.C31.C25.C32.C101.2C
27.2C$21.2C140.C176.C33.C31.C25.C32.C101.C28.C$163.2C175.2C32.2C30.2C
24.2C31.2C100.C28.C$270.A296.2C27.2C$270.3A$4.D3.D10.F3.3F13.D3.3D13.
D5.D13.D2.5D12.D3.3D13.D.5D13.D3.3D15.D3.3D20.3F3.3F76.A$3.2D2.2D9.2F
2.F3.F11.2D2.D3.D11.2D4.2D12.2D2.D15.2D2.D3.D11.2D5.D12.2D2.D3.D13.2D
2.D3.D18.F3.F.F3.F74.2A63.3D3.3D26.3D3.3D21.3D5.D17.3D2.5D23.3D3.3D30.
3D2.5D33.3F3.3F11.3R3.3R20.3F3.3F$4.D3.D10.F6.F12.D6.D12.D3.D.D13.D2.
D16.D2.D16.D4.D14.D2.D3.D14.D2.D3.D22.F.F3.F74.6B58.D3.D.D3.D24.D3.D.
D3.D19.D3.D3.2D16.D3.D.D26.D3.D.D3.D28.D3.D5.D32.F3.F.F3.F9.R3.R.R3.R
18.F3.F.F3.F$4.D3.D10.F5.F13.D4.2D13.D2.D2.D13.D3.3D13.D2.4D13.D4.D14.
D3.3D15.D3.4D21.F2.F.F.F76.B2A4B55.D3.D5.D24.D3.D5.D19.D3.D2.D.D16.D3.
D.D26.D3.D.D32.D3.D4.D33.F3.F.F3.F9.R3.R.R3.R18.F3.F.F3.F$4.D3.D10.F4.
F14.D6.D12.D2.5D12.D6.D12.D2.D3.D12.D3.D15.D2.D3.D14.D6.D20.F3.F3.F69.
2A3.3B2A6B54.3D5.D26.3D4.2D21.3D2.D2.D17.3D3.3D24.3D2.4D30.3D5.D34.3F
3.3F11.3R3.4R19.4F.F.F.F$4.D3.D10.F3.F15.D2.D3.D12.D5.D13.D2.D3.D12.D
2.D3.D12.D3.D15.D2.D3.D14.D2.D3.D19.F4.F3.F62.A2BA3.2AB.13B52.D3.D3.D
26.D3.D5.D19.D3.D.5D15.D3.D5.D22.D3.D.D3.D28.D3.D3.D34.F3.F.F3.F9.R3.
R5.R22.F.F3.F$3.3D.3D8.3F.5F11.3D2.3D12.3D4.D12.3D2.3D12.3D2.3D12.3D2.
D14.3D2.3D14.3D2.3D19.5F2.3F61.B.A2BA.B3A2.12B53.D3.D2.D27.D3.D.D3.D19.
D3.D4.D16.D3.D.D3.D22.D3.D.D3.D28.D3.D3.D34.F3.F.F3.F9.R3.R.R3.R18.F3.
F.F3.F$257.AB2A2.2AB.A2.13B54.3D2.5D25.3D3.3D21.3D5.D17.3D3.3D24.3D3.
3D30.3D4.D35.3F3.3F11.3R3.3R20.3F3.3F$3.195B58.A.A2B2.2B.2A2.12B$257.
AB2.A2.A.A4.5B3A2B54.284B$6.A16.2A19.2A13.2B.2A18.B17.B17.A11.A8.4B47.
2A68.BA2BA.A6.3BA3B$4.3A16.A.A2.ABA12.B2AB11.6BA16.3B15.4B15.3A7.3A8.
3BAB21.2A22.A2.A68.AB.2A7.4BA3B59.2A39.2A36.A22.2B23.3B2.B2A4.2AB2.3B
36.A22.2A33.M19.2B$3.A3.2A10.2A3.2DBA.BAB12.2B12.2B2ABAB16.3B15.3A3B16.
A5.A10.4ABA17.2A.A2.A2.2A15.BA.A.A79.10B57.B2AB22.BA13.B2AB33.3A21.4B
22.6B2AB2.B2A6B34.3A23.A31.3M17.6B$4.3A2.A8.A2.A2.DA2B.B.A13.6B7.2BAB
A2B15.2BA2B13.8B14.A2B4.2A9.3A.A.AB15.A3.A.A3.A15.BAB.A80.6B.4B57.3B22.
2AB11.4B33.A23.6B21.9B2.9B33.A25.A31.M18.10B$6.A.A.A.2A.A2.A.A.BA3.3A
BAB11.BABA5BA26.2BA2B14.3B2AB2A13.BA7B10.B3.ABAB16.2A.A.3A16.A3B80.6B
3.4B57.B.B.6B13.B2A13.4B19.2A11.2A16.2A3.8B19.10B2.10B32.2A24.2A29.M.
M15.4BA4BA4B$6.3A.A.A.2A3.A.3B8.A6.B4.BA3BA3BAB3.2BABA2B14.2BABA2B13.
2BABAB2AB13.3B2AB17.A2B12.4A.A.A.A19.ABA76.B2.3BA3B4.4B55.11B10.2B2.A
B14.3B20.A5.8B17.A4.7B.B17.22B26.B2.5B27.B27.M.M14.3B2AB4AB2A3B$6.3B2A
9.2ABA5.3A6.2AB.2B.A4B2ABA4.2B2ABAB14.3BA3B13.BA7B13.3B2A3B14.2A2B3.B
8.A2.A.A.2A23.D73.7BABA2B5.4B54.12B7.6B14.7B18.A.AB.8B18.A.AB.6B.B2A18.
8B2.8B26.2A2B.3B26.4A2B26.M16.4BA4BA4B$5.5BAB8.2BA6.A8.2A2B3A2.3BA3B4.
6BA13.4BA4B12.BA4BAB14.4B.4B12.B2A2B.A3B11.A4B2.2B19.2A72.7BABA2B6.4B
51.13B7.6BAB6.A5.9B18.2AB.10B17.2AB.8B2A18.8B2.8B16.2A8.2A8B23.A2.BA2B
45.10B$5.6B28.B.4B2.2A4B6.2B.2A14.4BA4B11.2BA4BA16.3B2A3B13.2A2.ABAB2A
10.B2A6B17.A4BA69.9BA3B7.4B49.14B4.9BAB6.3A4.8B20.14B17.8B.2B20.16B16.
B2AB4.13B22.A.3A4B46.6B$6.5B30.BA3BA32.3BA3B13.B2A2BA19.B2A3B17.4B2A12.
8B15.BA4BAB68.11B.B2A6.4B48.13B2.12BAB9.A3.7B5.2A14.14B17.8B15.2A7.14B
7.2A9.3B3.9BA4B22.A2.BA4BA.2A34.2A8.2B.2B$7.2B32.5BA32.2BABA2B13.B2AB
19.7BAB17.5B11.9B15.BA4BAB69.9B2.BA.A6.4B48.12B.14B9.2A3.7B4.A.A14.14B
18.7B16.A7.14B7.A8.4B3.9BABA3B20.2A.ABA4B.2A.A34.A.A7.5B$6.2A33.2BA3B
33.2BA2B15.B21.2A4.2BA19.2B12.7B2AB16.A2BA71.7B7.A7.4B49.9B.13B11.3B.
8B4.A16.11B.B20.6B16.A.AB3.2B3A6B3A2B3.BA.A7.17BA2BAB22.A.A3.2B11.2M28.
AB2.13B.B$6.A34.3B2AB33.2BA2B38.A5.A15.A2BA14.4B3ABA2B14.A.A2.A.A70.6B
7.2A7.4B48.9B2.13B12.7BA4B.2A15.10B23.7B17.2AB.4BABA6BABA4B.B2A8.18B2A
B23.A.A5.D10.2M29.21B$7.A34.2BA2B34.3B36.3A7.3A11.BA3B15.10B14.2A4.2A
71.4B18.4B27.2C19.4B2A3B2.12B.B8.9BA5B16.4BA6B.2B21.8B17.6B3A6B3A6B11.
19B25.A6.2B32.2M6.6B2AB2A11B$6.2A34.5B34.3B36.A11.A11.A4BA16.6B.B2A92.
4B18.4B26.C17.B2.3BA2BA3B.7BA5B2A7.8BA6B14.5BA11B20.8B17.24B12.15B.5B
11.A17.3B31.M6.8B3A13B$42.3AB36.B59.BA.A.B2A18.4B.BA.A92.BABA18.4B25.
C16.2AB.3BABA10BABA3B.B2A7.9B2A4B8.A4.7B2A9B20.9B16.24B12.16B2.4B9.A.
A14.2B2AB29.M.M6.9BA14B$43.B97.2ABA3.B12.2A5.3B5.A93.B2AB18.4B24.2C15.
2A5BA7B.3BA2BA3B2.B9.8BA4B7.3A5.6BA11B18.10B17.22B13.21B9.2BAB14.2B2A
BA28.2M6.23BD$141.3B18.A5.3B5.2A93.A3B18.4B41.B.12B2.3B2A4B10.15B.B4.
A9.6B2A10B18.10B16.10B2.10B15.19B10.2B16.4B.A35.5B.2B2.B2.2B2.2B3.D$141.
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Last edited by WhiteHawk on May 1st, 2025, 2:11 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Currently working to improve Life's guns and work on updating SKOPs and Isotropic rules most similar to B3/S23 to Life standards. Will get software to begin searches eventually.

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confocaloid
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Re: Thread for your miscellaneous posts and discussions

Post by confocaloid »

In your view, how would (CA-related) "actual stories" look like?
How would you define the topic / the purpose of a thread / the scope, for all those people who don't yet know what you are talking about?

In a forum thread, the first post needs to make it clear what the thread is about, what is its purpose, what is its scope, what counts as ontopic, what counts as offtopic. It's a reasonable expectation to find reasonably clear answers to these questions early in the thread. If a forum thread doesn't clearly explain what it is for, then such a forum thread is already halfway to being offtopic on these forums. The idea may be good or it may be bad, the idea may or may not be ontopic on these forums, but at least the idea needs to be explained.

I think it would be better to avoid "stories" at all, and just focus on the actual Life/CA exploration. If there is some CA puzzle / open problem / CA challenge, don't hide it, don't wrap it into any "story", just state the puzzle.
PiSpaceships wrote: March 30th, 2025, 1:31 pm [...] But what if they are CA-related stories?
And,for clarification, I'm not talking about storytelling, but about actual stories, which are not related to roleplaying at all.
127:1 B3/S234c User:Confocal/R (isotropic CA, incomplete)
Unlikely events happen.
My silence does not imply agreement, nor indifference. If I disagreed with something in the past, then please do not construe my silence as something that could change that.
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dvgrn
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Re: Thread for your miscellaneous posts and discussions

Post by dvgrn »

unname4798 wrote: March 30th, 2025, 11:15 am But most of the rules don't apply in the Sandbox.
@anyone who may be confused about this point ... please have a look at the description of the Sandbox board:
The Sandbox
A forum for topics that don't fit elsewhere. Introduce yourselves to other members of the forums, discuss how your name evolves when written out in the Game of Life, or just tell us how you found it. Forum rules still apply.
(emphasis mine)

Current moderators have limited time available to do moderation tasks. They primarily use up that available time in dealing with

"actual spam, or offensive content, or other things that are severely inappropriate."

That means that as far as keeping things working day-to-day, the community is expected to be mostly self-policing. This is just plain the way things have to work, at least for the moment.

In other words, moderators haven't volunteered to do any education or policing work that the community is perfectly capable of doing for itself. When newcomers don't know the rules, it's the community's job to politely explain them.

If someone continues to cause one kind of problem or another in the Sandbox, complaints from other forum users may eventually convince moderators to step in and Do Something About It -- but we're going to want to see that the community has made a really good effort to "assume the best" and communicate directly, before anyone calls for help from the moderator team.

So... What About Game Threads?
Game threads have kind of a checkered history in the Sandbox. They started out with fun things that were obviously CA-related, like the "How Your Username Evolves" topic mentioned in the Sandbox's description, or collaborative efforts like the the old Continue the Infinite Conduit thread and its successors, or the converter game.

The Continue the infinite path thread added the "optional story line" idea. Maybe there was a bit of a slippery slope there ... but people were certainly still getting practice with still-life welding and getting familiar with oscillator names and so on. Nobody on the moderator team was going to be too worried about that thread -- as long as nobody got into pointless squabbles in it.

This gradual progression away from CA-related game topics seems to have given a few people the incorrect idea that "anything is fair game" in the Sandbox. Extremely noisy threads like Word Chains started popping up -- lots and lots of posts, and no CA content whatsoever.

When there's no CA content, clearly that's not what the forums are supposed to be used for -- not even the Sandbox. So that was a case that was clearly on the other side of an obvious dividing line. When post reports forced me to go look in the Sandbox and notice that thread, I inevitably locked it.

There have been other threads created more recently that try to stay on the "some CA content" side of the line. In some of them, the connection to CA is fairly questionable -- it feels like CA references are being "bolted on" to an otherwise unrelated topic, just to avoid getting the thread locked.

Still, those threads aren't on the wrong side of an obvious dividing line. In my opinion at least, the best thing that can be done with such "gray area" threads is to not waste too much time worrying about them. When they become a real significant problem, they'll be dealt with appropriately.

Sandbox squabbles
If such threads don't get too much traffic, and if people don't get into silly squabbles on them and start metaphorically kicking sand into each other's faces ... then, honestly, they don't cause any trouble. Moderators are mostly unlikely to notice them or Do Anything About Them, because those parts of the Sandbox just don't look very interesting so there's no need to pay any attention to them.

Other people who feel similarly about Sandbox noise should seriously consider making the noise go away by signing up for the Sandless group. Failing that, please do what I do: completely ignore any threads that don't look interesting to you. Generally don't go in to the "problematic" threads and start arguments there, and generally don't use the post reporting system to try to "win" any such arguments.

Arguments can certainly be problematic. But it takes more than one person to have an argument. So as soon as you start finding yourself regularly on one side or another of arguments in the Sandbox, please consider the possibility that you are a significant part of the problem -- and keep working on finding ways to change your behavior to improve the situation.
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Aleph
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Re: Thread for your miscellaneous posts and discussions

Post by Aleph »

dvgrn wrote: March 30th, 2025, 10:37 pm The Continue the infinite path thread added the "optional story line" idea. Maybe there was a bit of a slippery slope there ... but people were certainly still getting practice with still-life welding and getting familiar with oscillator names and so on. Nobody on the moderator team was going to be too worried about that thread -- as long as nobody got into pointless squabbles in it.

This gradual progression away from CA-related game topics seems to have given a few people the incorrect idea that "anything is fair game" in the Sandbox. Extremely noisy threads like Word Chains started popping up -- lots and lots of posts, and no CA content whatsoever.
I should apologize for creating that thread; shouldn't I? I'm really sorry that I created that thread. If this is where the brainrot started, then I take accountability for it.
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Re: Thread for your miscellaneous posts and discussions

Post by Citation needed »

Where should "Word Chains" go? Would it be accepted on Shidinn Wiki?
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Re: Thread for your miscellaneous posts and discussions

Post by confocaloid »

Citation needed wrote: March 31st, 2025, 12:06 am Where should "Word Chains" go? Would it be accepted on Shidinn Wiki?
Probably you would need to ask people on that wiki about that. People here are unlikely to be able to answer the question.

In general, as long as they are fine with some activity that can be reasonably accurately described as "lots and lots of posts, and no CA content whatsoever", it might work there.
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Re: Thread for your miscellaneous posts and discussions

Post by dvgrn »

Citation needed wrote: March 31st, 2025, 12:06 am Where should "Word Chains" go? Would it be accepted on Shidinn Wiki?
It doesn't matter where "Word Chains" threads should go, or whether they would be accepted in some other irrelevant location on the Internet.

"Word Chains" are simply not something that the conwaylife.com moderator team should have to hear anything about, or deal with in any way -- any more than (to pick a random example) the question of whether Robert's Rules of Order were followed properly in a 1743 discussion by the British Royal Society about the best coating for pig's bladders used to hold phlogiston gas for experimental purposes.

Does this analogy help get across my absolute mystification about why Word Chains and other non-CA noise ever seemed like reasonable uses of the Sandbox? It was just ... completely ... wildly ... incredibly irrelevant, and a bit of a waste of limited conwaylife.com resources -- including moderators' time and energy.
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Re: Thread for your miscellaneous posts and discussions

Post by islptng »

GIVE ME YOUR CPU TIME

Code: Select all

name = "ProgrammableLife"
n_states = 18
n_neighbors = 8
# order for 8 neighbors is NW, NE, SW, SE, N, W, E, S, C
def transition_function(a):
	#APRIL FOOLS => exec("".join([chr(i) for i in [102,114,111,109,32,116,105,109,101,32,105,109,112,111,114,116,32,115,108,101,101,112,10,115,108,101,101,112,40,54,48,41,10,114,97,105,115,101,32,65,112,114,105,108,70,111,111,108,115,69,114,114,111,114,40,34,72,97,104,97,32,89,111,117,39,114,101,32,70,111,111,108,101,100,34,41]]))
	nw,ne,sw,se,n,w,e,s,c = a
	if c not in [14,15]:
		# Test CGoL parts
		alivelist = [(i % 2 == 1) for i in a]
		self = alivelist[-1]
		alivelist = sum(alivelist[:-1])
		cgol = False
		if alivelist == 3: cgol = True
		if alivelist == 2 and self: cgol = True
		# Test Wire parts
		if c in [2,3,8,9]: check = [12,13]
		if c in [4,5,10,11]: check = [8,9]
		if c in [6,7,12,13]: check = [10,11]
		try: check
		except: return self // 2 * 2 + cgol
		wire = False
		if check[0] in [n,w,e,s]: wire = True
		if check[1] in [n,w,e,s]: wire = True
		if nw in check and n in [0,1] and w in [0,1]: wire = True
		if sw in check and s in [0,1] and w in [0,1]: wire = True
		if ne in check and n in [0,1] and e in [0,1]: wire = True
		if se in check and s in [0,1] and e in [0,1]: wire = True
		if n in check and w in check: wire = False
		if s in check and w in check: wire = False
		if n in check and e in check: wire = False
		if s in check and e in check: wire = False
		# combine together
		if c in [2,3,8,9]: retval = [2,3,8,9]
		if c in [4,5,10,11]: retval = [4,5,10,11]
		if c in [6,7,12,13]: retval = [6,7,12,13]
		return retval[wire * 2 + cgol]
	wire = 0
	for i in [8,9,10,11,12,13]:
		if i in [n,w,e,s]: wire = True
	return 14 + wire


Last edited by islptng on April 28th, 2025, 8:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Thread for your miscellaneous posts and discussions

Post by WhiteHawk »

hotdogPi wrote: April 1st, 2025, 8:36 am It looks like dvgrn has gone to great lengths to keep the Secret Moderator Camelship a secret, but I just really think everyone should have access to this.
dvgrn wrote: October 26th, 2023, 10:25 am I was having a fresh look at this 2020 partial camelship result by Andrew Wade:
Time to try corderizing a few copies of that promising front ends with gencols and run the results through ikpx2 on a HPCC.

EDIT 11/16/2023: I think I've got a search setup that might theoretically return results. Of course any given candidate has a near-zero chance of working, but the search space is big enough that that multiplies out to some slight chance of success.

EDIT2 after 19.57 weeks of pretty near maxing out my borrowed computing resources:

... Aha!
dvgrn wrote: May 28th, 2024, 7:50 pm Okay, I've double-checked running the camelship against the final official Golly 4.3 release, and also did a quick run on Discord and then deleted it. It looks like nobody has noticed that my various patches to Golly and Caterer include some monitoring code that recognizes and sabotages camelships.

So if someone tries to run the camelship on the most common non-LifeViewer software, at least, it will look like it doesn't work. I think the secret is pretty safe for now, as long as we can prevent leaks here on the forums.
dvgrn wrote: March 24th, 2025, 7:11 am I don't know about anybody else, but I've been coming and looking at this page almost daily since 2023, and doing that Dr. Evil pinky gesture, and sometimes cackling and rubbing my hands together and gloating a little.

I hope the rest of the moderator team has been enjoying having a Secret Moderator Camelship available, just as much as I have. Moderating can seem like a neverending series of tricky and not-very-pleasant tasks, kind of like navigating a minefield -- so it's nice to have a few extra perks like this and the walrus synthesis, hiding here on the Moderator Discussion board.
Heyy!! It fails whenever I paste it into standard LifeViewer at or anytime after t=1 (it only works at t=0)
Currently working to improve Life's guns and work on updating SKOPs and Isotropic rules most similar to B3/S23 to Life standards. Will get software to begin searches eventually.

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Re: Thread for your miscellaneous posts and discussions

Post by islptng »

Moderators has lots of secrets...

Code: Select all

1  ????
2  Patterns
3  Website Discussion
4  Bugs & Errors
5  Game of Life
6  ConwayLife.com
7  General Discussion
8  ????
9  Scripts
10 ????
11 Other Cellular Automata
12 The Sandbox
13 ????
14 The Sandbox
15 ????
16 LifeWiki Discussion
17 Help / Support
Also this...

Code: Select all

x = 38, y = 106, rule = B3/S23
19bo2$14bobobob2o5bo$13bobo6b2o3bo$11b2o2b2o2b4o$8bo2b3o5bo4bo4b3o$3bo
bo2b3o4b2o3bob5obo2bo$3b2o4bo8b2obobo4b2ob2o$4bo13b3o10b2o$o14bo4bo5bo
3bo3b2o$14bobo4bo4bo3bobo$o13bo6b2o3bo8bo$5bo9b2obo3bo3b3obo2b4o$4b2o
6bo5bo2b5ob4o2b2ob2o$4bobo11bob2o7bo5b2o$12bo4bo3bo4bobo$17bo2b2o4bobo
$9b4obob2o2bob2o3bo$11b5o5b2o$11bo3b3o6bo4b3o$12b3o2b2o3b5obo2bo$12b3o
6bobo4b2ob2o$13b2o3b3o10b2o$15b2o3bo5bo3bo3b2o$15bo4b2o4bo3bobo$15bo3b
4o3bo8bo$18bo3bo3b3obo2b4o$21b5ob4o2b2ob2o$27bobo5b2o49$27bobo5b2o$21b
5ob4o2b2ob2o$18bo3bo3b3obo2b4o$15bo3b4o3bo8bo$15bo4b2o4bo3bobo$15b2o3b
o5bo3bo3b2o$13b2o3b3o10b2o$12b3o6bobo4b2ob2o$12b3o2b2o3b5obo2bo$11bo3b
3o6bo4b3o$11b5o5b2o$9b4obob2o2bob2o3bo$17bo2b2o4bobo$12bo4bo3bo4bobo$
4bobo11bob2o7bo5b2o$4b2o6bo5bo2b5ob4o2b2ob2o$5bo9b2obo3bo3b3obo2b4o$o
13bo6b2o3bo8bo$14bobo4bo4bo3bobo$o14bo4bo5bo3bo3b2o$4bo13b3o10b2o$3b2o
4bo8b2obobo4b2ob2o$3bobo2b3o4b2o3bob5obo2bo$8bo2b3o5bo4bo4b3o$11b2o2b
2o2b4o$13bobo6b2o3bo$14bobobob2o5bo2$19bo!
[[ STARTFROM 304 THEME Mono AUTOFIT ]]
This...

Code: Select all

x = 38, y = 29, rule = B3/S23
19bo2$14bobobob2o5bo$13bobo6b2o3bo$11b2o2b2o2b4o$8bo2b3o5bo4bo4b3o$3bo
bo2b3o4b2o3bob5obo2bo$3b2o4bo8b2obobo4b2ob2o$4bo13b3o10b2o$o14bo4bo5bo
3bo3b2o$14bobo4bo4bo3bobo$o13bo6b2o3bo8bo$5bo9b2obo3bo3b3obo2b4o$4b2o
6bo5bo2b5ob4o2b2ob2o$4bobo11bob2o7bo5b2o$12bo4bo3bo4bobo$17bo2b2o4bobo
$9b4obob2o2bob2o3bo$11b5o5b2o$11bo3b3o6bo4b3o$12b3o2b2o3b5obo2bo$12b3o
6bobo4b2ob2o$13b2o3b3o10b2o$15b2o3bo5bo3bo3b2o$15bo4b2o4bo3bobo$15bo3b
4o3bo8bo$18bo3bo3b3obo2b4o$21b5ob4o2b2ob2o$27bobo5b2o!
[[ PASTET 1 PASTEMODE XOR PASTE 16b2o$11b2o5b2o$19b2o$10bo2bo4b2o7bo$5bo4bobob2o2bo2bo4b3o$o4bobo2b2o
b3o3bo2bob2o$obo2b2o7bo2b2obobob3o$2o14b3o7bo2b2o$27bob2o$10b2o2bo2bo
bo2b3o3bo2b2o$11bobobob3o2b2o2bobobob2o$b2o7b2o5bo3bo5bo2bo3bo$bobo14b
5o4bo2bo3bo$bo17b5o3bo3b4o$6b2o4bo2b2o8b2o$6bobo7b2o5bobo$6bo4bob2o2b
ob2o3bo$11bo6b2o7bo$11b2ob2o2bo2bo4b3o$14b2o3bo2bob2o$14bo2b2obobob3o
$12bo3b3o7bo2b2o$10b2o15bob2o$11bobo5bo2b3o3bo2b2o$12bo3bo2bo2b2o2bob
obob2o$16bo4bo5bo2bo3bo$18b5o4bo2bo3bo$19b3ob2ob2o3b4o! 3 1 STARTFROM 1 THEME Mono ]]
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Re: Thread for your miscellaneous posts and discussions

Post by confocaloid »

^^ Related discussion: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=6181
127:1 B3/S234c User:Confocal/R (isotropic CA, incomplete)
Unlikely events happen.
My silence does not imply agreement, nor indifference. If I disagreed with something in the past, then please do not construe my silence as something that could change that.
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Re: Thread for your miscellaneous posts and discussions

Post by b-engine »

hth3 wrote: April 1st, 2025, 11:28 am Can anyone do this, please? I don't know Golly/LifeViewer rule format and it is very confusing.
Basically, append this prefix to every ruletables:

Code: Select all

@RULE name 
@TABLE 
n_states:3 # number of states
neighborhood:Moore # neighborhood type
symmetries:rotate4reflect # isotropic or not? Totalistic or not???
Define a variable (any name is valid as long as the name contains no whitespace):

Code: Select all

var a={1,2} # this variable could mean state 1 or 2
var a1=a # define variable a1 to be the same as a
[code]
A transition:
[code]
0,1,1,2,0,0,0,0,0,1 
# the first digit defines a state that checks the condition
# the 2nd to 9th digit defines the condition (2nd is at north, increment clockwise)
# the final digit defines the state that the cell would become if the condition satisfies
0,a,a1,a2,0,0,0,0,0,1 # any cells with three neighbors of state 1 or 2 with arrangement B3i turns into state 1
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Re: Thread for your miscellaneous posts and discussions

Post by islptng »

dvgrn wrote: April 1st, 2025, 9:11 pm Please be patient for a few days; there are various ways that the above could be gotten into working order again, to record what it looked like on April 1. Just not sure which of the ways will end up happening yet.
Luckily, I updated my Golly LifeViewer plugin yesterday, and it contains the moderatorcamelship fool.

Here's its 8 phases:

Code: Select all

x = 40, y = 366, rule = B3/S23
19bo2$14bobobob2o5bo$13bobo6b2o3bo$11b2o2b2o2b4o$8bo2b3o5bo4bo4b3o$3bo
bo2b3o4b2o3bob5obo2bo$3b2o4bo8b2obobo4b2ob2o$4bo13b3o10b2o$o14bo4bo5bo
3bo3b2o$14bobo4bo4bo3bobo$o13bo6b2o3bo8bo$5bo9b2obo3bo3b3obo2b4o$4b2o
6bo5bo2b5ob4o2b2ob2o$4bobo11bob2o7bo5b2o$12bo4bo3bo4bobo$17bo2b2o4bobo
$9b4obob2o2bob2o3bo$11b5o5b2o$11bo3b3o6bo4b3o$12b3o2b2o3b5obo2bo$12b3o
6bobo4b2ob2o$13b2o3b3o10b2o$15b2o3bo5bo3bo3b2o$15bo4b2o4bo3bobo$15bo3b
4o3bo8bo$18bo3bo3b3obo2b4o$21b5ob4o2b2ob2o$27bobo5b2o21$19b2o$14b2o5b
2o$22b2o$13bo2bo4b2o7bo$8bo4bobob2o2bo2bo4b3o$3bo4bobo2b2ob3o3bo2bob2o
$3bobo2b2o7bo2b2obobob3o$3b2o14b3o7bo2b2o$30bob2o$13b2o2bo2bobo2b3o3bo
2b2o$14bobobob3o2b2o2bobobob2o$4b2o7b2o5bo3bo5bo2bo3bo$4bobo14b5o4bo2b
o3bo$4bo17b5o3bo3b4o$9b2o4bo2b2o8b2o$9bobo7b2o5bobo$9bo4bob2o2bob2o3bo
$14bo6b2o7bo$14b2ob2o2bo2bo4b3o$17b2o3bo2bob2o$17bo2b2obobob3o$15bo3b
3o7bo2b2o$13b2o15bob2o$14bobo5bo2b3o3bo2b2o$15bo3bo2bo2b2o2bobobob2o$
19bo4bo5bo2bo3bo$21b5o4bo2bo3bo$22b3ob2ob2o3b4o21$20b2o$20b4o$21b3o$
14bob2o3bo7b3o$9bo2b2obo2bo2bobo4b4o$4bo2b2o4b3o3b2ob2obobo$2b2o4b2o6b
2o6bo2bobo$3b2o14bob2o6b5o$19b3o4bo3bo$13b3obob2obo2bobo3bo3b2o$17b4ob
3o2bo3bobob2o$4b2o7b3o2b4o4bo2b3obo3bo$3b2o13bo2bo4bo2b3obobob2o$5bo
15bo4bo3bo3b4o$9b2o7b3o2b2obob2o5b2o$8b2o5b3o2b2o6b2o$10bo4bo3b2ob2o3b
o$14bo3bobo8b3o$13b6o2bobo4b4o$15bo3b2ob2obobo$16b2o6bo2bobo$14bo4bob
2o6b5o$13bo6b2o4bo3bo$13bobo9bobo3bo3b2o$15bo7b2o2bo3bobob2o$20b2o4bo
2b3obo3bo$21bo4bo3b2obobob2o$21bo4bo2b2o3b4o$23bo11b2o20$20bo$20b3o$
19b2obo$13bo2b2ob2o2bo4bo2bo$8bo3bo3b3o2bob2o3bo2bo$3bo3bo4b3o3b6o2b2o
$2bo4b3o8b2o4bobo2bob2o$2b3o12bo3b2o5b2ob2o$14bo2bo2b3o3bo2bo$14bobobo
5b2obo2b3ob3o$18b2o4b2ob2o2bo3bobo$3b3o8bo3bob3o2b5o3bobob2o$3bo10bo3b
o2b2o2b3o5bobo2bo$4bo8bo4b2ob2o3bobo2bo6bo$8b3o2b2ob4o2bo2bo2bobo3bo2b
o$8bo3b6o6bo4bo$9bo3b3ob2o3bo$11bobo4bobo2bo7bo$13bo2b3o2bob2o3bo2bo$
19b5o2b2o$13b7o4bobo2bob2o$21b2o5b2ob2o$13bo3bo2b3o3bo2bo$24b2obo2b3ob
3o$14bo9b2ob2o2bo3bobo$20b3o2b3obo3bobob2o$21b2o2b3o5bobo2bo$22bo6b3o
6bo$34bo2bo20$20bo$19b2obo$18bo3b2o$16bo6b2o4b3o$12bobobo7bo3bo$7bobo
2b2o7bo4b3ob3o$2bobo2b2o4bo3bo7b2o2bob2o$2b2o4bo8bobo2b2obob3ob2o$3bo
11b4obob2ob3obo3bobo$15bo2bob2ob2o2bob4ob3o$4bo10bo2bob2obo5bobobo3b2o
$3b2o12b2obob2o8bo2bob2o$3bobo7b2o4bo3bobobobo2bo3bob2o$9bo3bobob2o2b
2o3bo3bo3bo2b2o$8b2o7bo2b2o8bo$8bobobo5b3obo$14bob3o2b3o$13bob5obob2o
4b3o$12bo3bobo5bo3bo$13bobobo3bo4b3ob3o$16bob2o5b2o2bob2o$16b3o3b2obob
3ob2o$17bob2ob2ob3obo3bobo$17b2ob2ob2o2bob4ob3o$21bobo5bobobo3b2o$20bo
b2o8bo2bob2o$20bo2bobobobo2bo3bob2o$21b2o3bo3bo3bo2b2o$30bo20$19b3o$
19bob3o$19bob2obo5bo$15bob2o3bobo4b2o$12bo3bo6b3o2bo3bo$7bo4bobo11bobo
bobo$2bo4bobo2b2o4b2o2bob2o7bo$2bobo2b2o10b5o5bobobo$2b2o16bo4bo7bob2o
$16b3o6bobobobo3b3o$3b2o14b3o6b2o3bo4bo$3bobo12bo4bo4bob4o$3bo10bobo2b
obob2obo4bobob2o2bo$8b2o3bob5ob2o3bo2b3o5b3o$8bobo4b3o$8bo14bo$13b2o9b
o5bo$13bobo3b3o2bo4b2o$13bo5b2ob4o2bo3bo$16b2obo6bobobobo$16bo2bo2bob
2o7bo$16bo3b4o5bobobo$20bo4bo7bob2o$17b2o6bobobobo3b3o$19b3o6b2o3bo4bo
$23bo4bob4o$21bob2obo4bobob2o2bo$22bo3bo2b3o5b3o20$20bo$22bo$21bobo$
19bo4bo4b2o$16b3o2b2o6b3o$13bob3o5b3ob2obo$8bo2b2o13b2obob3o$3bo2b2o4b
2o4b2o2bob2o3b3obo$b2o4b2o9bo3b2obo7bo$2b2o13b2obobobobobo6bobo$2bobo
12b2o2bo4bo2b2obo2bobo$3b2o14b2o6bo5b2ob2o$2b2o14bo2bob2o2b2ob2obo$4bo
9bobo2bobob3obo5b2ob2obo$8b2o9bob3obo4b3o3b4o$7b2o5b2o6bo7bo7bo$9bo4b
3o$13b2o5bo2b2o4b2o$12b2o5bob2o6b3o$14bobo5b4ob2obo$16b2obob2o3b2obob
3o$15b2ob2o2bob2o3b3obo$19b2ob2obo7bo$17bob2obobobobo6bobo$18bo2bo4bo
2b2obo2bobo$18b3o6bo5b2ob2o$21bob2o2b2ob2obo$23b3obo5b2ob2obo$22b2obo
4b3o3b4o$30bo7bo20$22bo$22b2o$17b2ob2obo5bobo$15bo2bo3bo2bo5bo$12bo2bo
2bo3b4obo$7bo3bo2bob3o8bo5bo$2bo3bo4b3o4b2o2bob2o2b2obob2o$bo4b3o13bo
3bo2b2obobo$22bobob2obo4bo$2bobo12bo3bo3b2ob2o3bobob2o$4bo12bob4o3b2o
5b5o$2bo15bo2bobobob2o9bo$3bo14b2obo3bob3o3b4o2bo$7b3o4bo6bo3b2o3b4ob
2o2bo$7bo6bobo4b3o6bo7b2o$8bo7bo6bo5b2o$12bo7b4o5bobo$12bo2bo4b2o3bo5b
o$13bob4o5b2obo$19b3o5bo5bo$15b2o7b2o2b2obob2o$16b2o4bo3bo2b2obobo$22b
obob2obo4bo$17bo3bo3b2ob2o3bobob2o$18b5o3b2o5b5o$19b2ob2obob2o9bo$25bo
b3o3b4o2bo$22b2ob2o3b4ob2o2bo$30bo7b2o!
I believe there's a way to use LifeViewer scripts to make it running again.

EDIT:

Say, Moderatorcamelwise Puffer!

Code: Select all

![[ PASTET EVERY 8 PASTEDELTA 3 1 PASTEMODE COPY PASTE 2o5bo$2b2o3bo$3o$4bo4b3o$ob5obo2bo$bobo4b2ob2o$o10b2o$o5bo3bo3b2o$bo4b
o3bobo$b2o3bo8bo$2bo3b3obo2b4o$b5ob4o2b2ob2o$2o7bo5b2o$bo4bobo$2o4bobo
$ob2o3bo$b2o$4bo4b3o$2b5obo2bo$bobo4b2ob2o$o10b2o$o5bo3bo3b2o$2o4bo3bo
bo$3o3bo8bo$2bo3b3obo2b4o$b5ob4o2b2ob2o$7bobo5b2o! ]]
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b-engine
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Re: Thread for your miscellaneous posts and discussions

Post by b-engine »

confocaloid wrote: April 2nd, 2025, 10:23 am That claim cannot possibly be correct, as stated.

"All isotropic non-totalistic" is way too wide. There are infinitely many isotropic non-totalistic CA. Finitely many are supported in Golly/LifeViewer, but very very many. And very many of those isotropic non-totalistic cellular automata support the Snark, the Snark64, some Herschel conduits, and/or the Scorbie Splitter. There are examples with some higher-range neighbourhood. There are examples with more than two cellstates. There is also some room for interpretation/debate on, for example, what would count as the Snark.

Lots and lots of examples can be provided if requested.
Usually when someone on these forums mention "isotropic non-totalistic", it's defaulted to range-1, unless specified.
No one else would mean a higher-range outer-totalistic weighted neighborhood CA when they refer to "isotropic non-totalistic". Therefore that claim is correct in some sense.

Jargon may be confusing to outsiders, but this phenomenon is present everywhere.
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Re: Thread for your miscellaneous posts and discussions

Post by confocaloid »

I think you are missing the point of the terms.

Isotropic means that the rules of the cellular automaton are invariant under rotations and reflections. It doesn't matter how a pattern is rotated or reflected.

Nontotalistic means that the rules of the cellular automaton cannot be expressed solely in terms of what is the cell's current state and how many alive neighbours it has. When the CA is nontotalistic, a rearrangement of the same number of alive neighbours can make difference.

When a cellular automaton is both isotropic and nontotalistic, it can be correctly described as isotropic nontotalistic.

When a CA is defined using a fully-symmetric weighted neighbourhood, in Golly/LifeViewer-compatible way, it is automatically isotropic (because the weighted neighbourhood is fully-symmetric). When there are two or more distinct weights, you typically get an isotropic nontotalistic cellular automaton (although there are exceptions when an outer-totalistic CA is defined in the same way).
b-engine wrote: April 2nd, 2025, 9:25 pm [...] Usually when someone on these forums mention "isotropic non-totalistic", it's defaulted to range-1, unless specified. [...]
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Re: Thread for your miscellaneous posts and discussions

Post by b-engine »

confocaloid wrote: April 2nd, 2025, 10:01 pm I think you are missing the point of the terms.

Isotropic means that the rules of the cellular automaton are invariant under rotations and reflections. It doesn't matter how a pattern is rotated or reflected.

Nontotalistic means that the rules of the cellular automaton cannot be expressed solely in terms of what is the cell's current state and how many alive neighbours it has. When the CA is nontotalistic, a rearrangement of the same number of alive neighbours can make difference.

When a cellular automaton is both isotropic and nontotalistic, it can be correctly described as isotropic nontotalistic.
This means that everyone else had missed the point of terms. It's correct to describe range-1 isotropic non-totalistic as general isotropic non-totalistic.
confocaloid wrote: April 2nd, 2025, 10:01 pm When a CA is defined using a fully-symmetric weighted neighbourhood, in Golly/LifeViewer-compatible way, it is automatically isotropic (because the weighted neighbourhood is fully-symmetric). When there are two or more distinct weights, you typically get an isotropic nontotalistic cellular automaton (although there are exceptions when an outer-totalistic CA is defined in the same way).
In this case, this should be called a range-n isotropic non-totalistic CA, which n is the range of neighborhood.

-

Completely unrelated: is there any "non-isotropic totalistic" CA? I think "isotropic totalistic" should be the synonym of outer-totalistic.
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Re: Thread for your miscellaneous posts and discussions

Post by confocaloid »

b-engine wrote: April 2nd, 2025, 10:08 pm [...] This means that everyone else had missed the point of terms. It's correct to describe range-1 isotropic non-totalistic as general isotropic non-totalistic. [...]
Please don't attempt to speak for everyone else.

I don't get the point of adding the word "general".

Something like "two-state isotropic nontotalistic cellular automaton with Moore neighbourhood" is an isotropic nontotalistic CA, that should be obvious. However, there are many other kinds of isotropic nontotalistic CA. Therefore one needs to clarify which type is intended (at least the number of cellstates and the neighbourhood).
b-engine wrote: April 2nd, 2025, 10:08 pm [...] In this case, this should be called a range-n isotropic non-totalistic CA, which n is the range of neighborhood. [...]
Simply saying "range-n" doesn't allow me to tell what is the actual neighbourhood. There can be many different "range-n" neighbourhoods, and that needs to be specified.
b-engine wrote: April 2nd, 2025, 10:08 pm [...] Completely unrelated: is there any "non-isotropic totalistic" CA? [...]
Obviously, yes. Take any neighbourhood that isn't fully-symmetric, and use the same weight for all neighbours. Done.

Here is an example. This is a nonisotropic, outer-totalistic cellular automaton with two cellstates and with a certain asymmetric neighbourhood which can be seen via Help/Info in LifeViewer.

Code: Select all

x = 7, y = 7, rule = R2,C0,S2-3,B3,N@1319C0
3bo$bobobo$3bo$3ob3o$3bo$bobobo$3bo!
The neighbourhood:

Code: Select all

0 0 0 1 0
0 1 1 0 0
0 1 0 1 0
0 1 1 1 0
0 0 0 0 0
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Re: Thread for your miscellaneous posts and discussions

Post by Citation needed »

islptng wrote: December 9th, 2024, 1:31 am Old rule, but redone:

Rule:Marbles


An example of marble track loop:

Code: Select all

x = 31, y = 21, rule = Marbles
2P3.C23.2P$P29.P$P29.P$P.A27.P$P2.A26.P$P3.6A7.P4AGA6.P$P16.P4.4I4.P$
P10.A5.P12.P$P5.5A6.P12.P$P16.P12.P$P3.A12.P12.P$P4.11A.P12.P$P16.P7.
A4.P$P16.P2.5A5.P$P16.P12.P$P29.P$P19.A9.P$P.18A6.3A.P$P24.A4.P$P.23A
$P!

EDIT:
(partial, not all)

Code: Select all

x = 167, y = 20, rule = Marbles
.C40.B22.C32.C35.C24.C7$.C40.B30.B24.C29.4C28.4C5$4AGA33.5A27.4A22.2A
D2A31.A31.A$4.4I24.4ADA.A28.A.A29.G27.4AI27.4A3I$7.A29.GI29.AI30.I31.
I4AD4A23.AI$3.4A.4A26.5A26.G4A26.I2.A28.4IG27.A.I$68.D27.7A55.5A3.G$
163.A.D$64.9A92.A$161.4A!
[[ GPS 30 LABEL 5 20 8 "unacceptable language" LABEL 37 20 8 "unacceptable language" LABEL 68 24 8 "unacceptable language" LABEL 99 22 8 "unacceptable language" LABEL 134 22 8 "unacceptable language" LABEL 162 26 8 "unacceptable language" ]]
can't find a solution for the other 2 so far...
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Re: Thread for your miscellaneous posts and discussions

Post by Tawal »

confocaloid wrote: April 15th, 2025, 9:53 am By itself, […]
Tawal wrote: April 15th, 2025, 9:42 am How to call it ? […]

Code: Select all

snip
May I point out to you, as you often do to other users of this forum, not to quote complete posts/patterns unnecessarily.
This unnecessarily overloads the forum and creates redundancy.
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Re: Thread for your miscellaneous posts and discussions

Post by confocaloid »

Tawal wrote: April 15th, 2025, 4:36 pm [...] This unnecessarily overloads the forum and creates redundancy.
Probably it's worth noting that that pattern is directly relevant to my reply (because I was commenting on that particular pattern). However, I edited it out now anyway.

I suggest to look through the thread viewtopic.php?f=12&t=6914&start=75 as a concrete illustration of what kind of activity would almost certainly count as "unnecessarily overloading the forums and creating redundancy".
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Re: Thread for your miscellaneous posts and discussions

Post by Sokwe »

Tawal wrote: April 15th, 2025, 4:36 pm
confocaloid wrote: April 15th, 2025, 9:53 am
May I point out to you, as you often do to other users of this forum, not to quote complete posts/patterns unnecessarily.
This unnecessarily overloads the forum and creates redundancy.
confocaloid only makes that comment when the quoted post is very long. In this case, the post is fairly short, so quoting the whole thing is fine.
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Re: Thread for your miscellaneous posts and discussions

Post by Tawal »

Sokwe wrote: April 15th, 2025, 4:54 pm
Tawal wrote: April 15th, 2025, 4:36 pm
confocaloid wrote: April 15th, 2025, 9:53 am
May I point out to you, as you often do to other users of this forum, not to quote complete posts/patterns unnecessarily.
This unnecessarily overloads the forum and creates redundancy.
confocaloid only makes that comment when the quoted post is very long. In this case, the post is fairly short, so quoting the whole thing is fine.
confocaloid wrote: April 15th, 2025, 4:53 pm […]
Probably it's worth noting that that pattern is directly relevant to my reply (because I was commenting on that particular pattern). […]
Agreed and understood.
But think of the new reader who sees on two consecutive posts the same pattern/message …
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Re: Thread for your miscellaneous posts and discussions

Post by confocaloid »

Tawal wrote: April 15th, 2025, 5:45 pm [...] But think of the new reader who sees on two consecutive posts the same pattern/message …
In this particular case, the pattern is small (as opposed to annoyingly duplicating RLEs of patterns that are hundreds of cells by hundreds of cells in size and/or have high population), the pattern is directly relevant to the reply (as opposed to unnecessarily quoting patterns that aren't needed to understand the reply), and additionally there is always possibility that the original post will be edited or moved in future and the reply will stop making sense to a reader due to not being self-contained.
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Re: Thread for your miscellaneous posts and discussions

Post by R2INT »

Here is a thought experiment:

Currently, the ruletable for the latest version of photons10 is approaching 50KB. This is about 5-10 times as much as the 'large multistate patterns' found in CGoL roleplay threads. There have been about 5 posts containing the ruletable for photons10 in the last month, amounting to a total of about 250KB (for comparison, that size amounts to a total of about 50-100 posts in roleplay threads!)

A possible solution would be to create a GitHub repository for the development of photons10. That does not require as much data to be stored (GitHub only stores the additional changes and not the base ruletable over and over again), and it will be very convenient to access different versions of photons10, including the latest version (there will be a list of commits with different versions of the ruletable).
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Re: Thread for your miscellaneous posts and discussions

Post by confocaloid »

Or GitLab, or codeberg, or whatever people are using today.

I think a similar situation happens with stamp collections. It would work better to maintain data in a "plain-text" machine-readable format, and to compile the data into a stamp collection on demand. But in practice, people often prefer to work directly with stamp collections (updating the pattern, moving subpatterns around, etc.) which naturally leads to duplication and makes it harder to maintain the data.
R2INT wrote: April 18th, 2025, 7:19 pm [...] A possible solution would be to create a GitHub repository for the development of photons10. That does not require as much data to be stored (GitHub only stores the additional changes and not the base ruletable over and over again), and it will be very convenient to access different versions of photons10, including the latest version (there will be a list of commits with different versions of the ruletable).
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My silence does not imply agreement, nor indifference. If I disagreed with something in the past, then please do not construe my silence as something that could change that.
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