Can somebody help me?

[unname4798]

Can somebody help me? PLEEEASE! I am about to be banned on tomorrow. [no moderators allowed in this thread]

[confocaloid]

Would it be an option to consider not doing whatever it is that would cause undesirable consequences you are apparently seeking to avoid?

Can somebody help me? PLEEEASE! I am about to be banned on tomorrow. [no moderators allowed in this thread]

[unname4798]

That would not suit my needs.

[PiSpaceships]

Can somebody help me? PLEEEASE! I am about to be banned on tomorrow. [no moderators allowed in this thread]

What you are about to be banned?

(I'm not a moderator)

[unname4798]

I am about to be banned because of my "destructive" behaviour in roleplays that dvgrn spotted.

[PiSpaceships]

Can dvgrn explain here what unname4798 did, with examples?

[confocaloid]

All those "roleplays" are a problematic idea by themselves (and are mostly offtopic), regardless of actions of any specific users.

"This is an academic forum, not a chat or microblogging platform." viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2092

[PiSpaceships]

All those "roleplays" are a problematic idea by themselves (and are mostly offtopic), regardless of actions of any specific users.

"This is an academic forum, not a chat or microblogging platform." viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2092

This doesn't explain anything. Many people do releplay threads and they are not banned. Besides that, unname4798 says something about destructive bahaviour. I want direct examples. How can I assess the situation if I don't even know the allegations?

I am about to be banned because of my "destructive" behaviour in roleplays that dvgrn spotted.

[unname4798]

All those "roleplays" are a problematic idea by themselves (and are mostly offtopic), regardless of actions of any specific users.

"This is an academic forum, not a chat or microblogging platform." viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2092

They are still acceptable because of the Sandbox's loose rules.

[confocaloid]

All those "roleplays" are a problematic idea by themselves (and are mostly offtopic), regardless of actions of any specific users.

"This is an academic forum, not a chat or microblogging platform." viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2092

They are still acceptable because of the Sandbox's loose rules.

Sounds like a problem with too loose rules.

[...] Many people do releplay threads and they are not banned. [...]

It's not really a question of banning ppl. It's more a question of locking/deleting offtopic/irrelevant/problematic threads. So-called "roleplays" are problematic, they create noise, they invite low-effort high-volume activity, they create an environment with high likelihood of rule violations and other problematic behaviour.

[...] How can I assess the situation if I don't even know the allegations? [...]

You can still search the forums (past discussions, posts by various ppl, etc.) and you can think yourself about those issues.

[dvgrn]

... unname4798 says something about destructive bahaviour. I want direct examples. How can I assess the situation if I don't even know the allegations?

There isn't really a lot for non-moderators to do at this point. But since unname4798 has brought this up here, here's a little more of the backstory:

I've been trying to help unname4798 get into fewer Sandbox squabbles, for quite some time now.

The big difficulty is that I keep sending private messages... and getting absolutely no response back. Sometimes there's a short response, a one-word "Acknowledged" or maybe even a full sentence, but usually not even that -- and hardly ever any direct answers to direct questions that I ask.

I only ask questions when I think it would help the situation if I knew the answers to those questions. But I haven't been getting any answers.

The only exception to that is that if I threaten a tempban, then I get a response right away.

That's not the way that I like to have conversations, but it is what it is -- it's either that, or no conversation at all. Nothing I say in my messages seems to make any difference to the way unname4798 reacts to them; so far, only the threat of a tempban has any effect.

An example
The conversation that I'm trying to have in this case is what has been happening on a roleplay thread, starting around this point with a complaint about unname4798's behavior, continuing with further pleas for a change in that behavior, and (maybe) ending with my message here.

I'll be setting up a one-week tempban for unname4798, starting tomorrow. This is happening after a long string of PMs in which I tried to get responses from unname4798 that might suggest some other option. Here's a partial quote from one of my seven PMs from today so far:

Please understand this: currently you're directly involved in three-quarters of the unnecessary noisy arguments that are happening in the Sandbox. Those arguments are going to stop, one way or another.

Now, those arguments might not all be your fault -- it takes two people to make an argument. But it's absolutely obvious that your behavior, and your inability to adjust your behavior when other people ask you to, has been a really big part of the problem.

Of course I don't want to ban you permanently. It's just that you're continuing to respond in a way that doesn't give me a lot of other options besides tempbans.

At the moment, I would appreciate having a break of about a week or so before trying to work on all of this with you again. Other people will also appreciate a one-week break from trying to negotiate with you. So the tempban is definitely going to happen.

Please feel free to ask for help from any other moderator if you think I'm being unfair about this.

The best way to get the attention of other moderators would be to report this post that I just made, and explain your situation.

I only have so much time that I can spend trying to help any one person. I'm willing to keep trying to help, but an enforced one-week break really seems like the best option that I can think of at the moment.

[unname4798]

dvgrn just broke thread's rule. I am not humiliating dvgrn.

[confocaloid]

That would not suit my needs.

Code: Select all

x = 16, y = 23, rule = R3,C0,S12-146,236,262-372,598-721,B19,28,129,356,397,482,599,615,839,NW09007509750009007575097575007575010101757509090100010909757501010175750075750975750009007509750009
14bo$15bo$13b3o12$b4o$bo$bo$b3o$bo$bo$bo2$6o!
#C [[ GRID THEME MCell ZOOM 8 ]]

[unname4798]

That would not suit my needs.

Code: Select all

x = 16, y = 23, rule = R3,C0,S12-146,236,262-372,598-721,B19,28,129,356,397,482,599,615,839,NW09007509750009007575097575007575010101757509090100010909757501010175750075750975750009007509750009
14bo$15bo$13b3o12$b4o$bo$bo$b3o$bo$bo$bo2$6o!
#C [[ GRID THEME MCell ZOOM 8 ]]

Letter F does not meet a glider.

[confocaloid]

[...] Letter F does not meet a glider.

Is that a good thing or a bad thing?

Code: Select all

x = 39, y = 19, rule = R3,C0,S55,150-180,280-301,405-431,555,651-675,935-1150,B150-180,276,285,305,430,440,565,690,1027-1036,1155,NW017D7D7D7D7D017D7D7D007D7D7D7D7D0519057D7D7D00190019007D7D7D0519057D7D7D7D7D007D7D7D017D7D7D7D7D01
4bo8b2o7b2o13bo$2b2o8bo9b2o14bo$4b2o9bo8b2o10b3o$3bo9b2o9b2o7$b4o$bo$b
o$b3o$bo$bo$bo2$6o!
#C [[ GRID THEME MCell ZOOM 4 ]]

[dvgrn]

dvgrn just broke thread's rule. I am not humiliating dvgrn.

Here I believe you're talking about your "[no moderators allowed in this thread]" statement at the beginning of the thread.

This is a really great example of the kind of problem we're trying to work on here.

One of the simple facts of these forums is that you can't actually order moderators around. Not on the regular forums, and not in the Sandbox either.

Your attempt to do that here is a symptom of a common pattern of behavior, that I'd like you to take a close look at.

A lot of the recent arguments that you've been a part of have gone like this:

(#1) You try to tell someone else what to do.
(#2) The other person doesn't agree, and doesn't want to do whatever it is.
(#3) You don't seem to notice that you never had any right to order that person around in the first place.

If you can start reviewing your messages before you post them, carefully enough to avoid (#1) in the future, then (#2) and (#3) won't keep happening -- and then I won't have to keep threatening you with tempbans to get you to pay better attention.

[unname4798]

dvgrn just broke thread's rule. I am not ordering moderators around.

[dvgrn]

dvgrn just broke thread's rule. I am not ordering moderators around.

Just to be clear: do you understand that "[no moderators allowed in this thread]" is simply not a rule that you have any business trying to create?

That was a mistake on your part. It shows fairly clearly that you don't understand how to follow the rules of these forums -- as opposed to the made-up rules specific to particular threads.

"No moderators" is not a rule that I'm under any obligation to follow, especially when people who are trying to help you on this thread are specifically asking for information from me. So I'm politely ignoring your invalid rule. It's not a good sign that you keep on pointing out the rule, even after I've explained this.

I'd appreciate a simple direct response to my question, such as, "Yes, I understand now", or "No, I still believe that it's okay for me to create that rule".

[unname4798]

Yes, I understand now. It all started because of the BASL being arrested on CGoLRPHDE.

[dvgrn]

Yes, I understand now.

Thanks for the clear answer!

In response, I'm going to try a new idea: instead of a tempban, I'm going to turn on the "Sandless" flag for your account tomorrow morning.

I'll turn it off again a week from tomorrow.

During the next week, you're absolutely welcome to make your usual contributions to the main forums. You've been posting some interesting stuff there lately.

I hope I don't need to say this -- but if you start posting to the Sandbox from any new sockpuppet accounts during that week, or if you turn your "Sandless" flag back off again, I'll institute a tempban for the remainder of the week. Might even extend it to a month. You really shouldn't do those things.

Questions from moderators need answers
Please try to remember to answer questions from me in the future. I'm sure it's not pleasant for you to answer my questions, so I won't be asking them unless a problem comes up that I need your help to try to solve.

[LuveelVoom]

[...] Letter F does not meet a glider.

Is that a good thing or a bad thing?

Code: Select all

x = 39, y = 19, rule = R3,C0,S55,150-180,280-301,405-431,555,651-675,935-1150,B150-180,276,285,305,430,440,565,690,1027-1036,1155,NW017D7D7D7D7D017D7D7D007D7D7D7D7D0519057D7D7D00190019007D7D7D0519057D7D7D7D7D007D7D7D017D7D7D7D7D01
4bo8b2o7b2o13bo$2b2o8bo9b2o14bo$4b2o9bo8b2o10b3o$3bo9b2o9b2o7$b4o$bo$b
o$b3o$bo$bo$bo2$6o!
#C [[ GRID THEME MCell ZOOM 4 ]]

Funnily enough, the same rule has an alien fship:

Code: Select all

 x = 53, y = 35, rule = R3,C2,S55,150-180,280-301,405-431,555,651-675,935-1150,B150-180,276,285,305,430,440,565,690,1027-1036,1155,NW017d7d7d7d7d017d7d7d007d7d7d7d7d0519057d7d7d00190019007d7d7d0519057d7d7d7d7d007d7d7d017d7d7d7d7d01
10$6b2o9bo8b2o7b2o13bo$6bo8b2o8bo9b2o14bo$6b2o9b2o9bo8b2o10b3o$6bo9bo
9b2o9b2o7$14b4o$14bo$14bo$14b3o$14bo$14bo$14bo2$13b6o!
#C [[ GRID THEME MCell ZOOM 4 ]]

[b-engine]

The most efficient of preventing being threatened here is to make yourself a part of the real community.
Study Hensel notation and isotropic non-totalistic.
Use a rule as a base (ideally B3/S23, or B/S012345678 for self-complementary rules) and start rulegolfing.
If you notice a particularly interesting pattern (such as a spaceship), add a cell and step little by little. If that works for a "period" again, add a transition.
Repeat until you realize you get a sophisticated and worthy rule.

That's how I rulegolf. Same for those snapshots in my rule thread.

Do this a bit more, and you'll solve all your problems.

[confocaloid]

^^ I don't think that is a particularly good advice. DIfferent people rulegolf in different ways, "That's how I rulegolf" is not an argument why others need to do it the same way.

"Being part of the community" doesn't boil down to studying a particular notation (which may not cover everything of interest, and may be imperfect) or reading a particular page (which again may fail to cover topics that would be more interesting, and may be imperfect).

Often, being part of the community means *not* doing the same thing that most other people do, and instead doing something different or doing it differently.

The most efficient of preventing being threatened here is to make yourself a part of the real community.
Study Hensel notation and isotropic non-totalistic.

[...]