Issues concerning gun & guntrue submissions on Catagolue - solution discussion thread

[WhiteHawk]

EDIT (10/22): I thought it might be helpful to expand the breadth of this thread to include discussion on bounding box glitch, any extended delays on submissions, or just any problems concerning guns in catagolue that need to be fixed (exceedingly pointless densified guns included)

This thread is concerned with the topic of submission of pointlessly densified guntrue submissions currently in Catagolue. These forms are exceptional unhelpful and invalid, as it becomes harder to see gun structures and actually know what is and isn't part of the gun. While it may help Catagolue identify the bounding box better, it does not help the users trying to view the guns in question.

Previous discussion linked below. If anyone finds a gun which has been pointlessly densified before submission to Catagolue, this is a good thread to post the invalid form to so it can be corrected.

[...] guntrue_1999, guntrue_1979, guntrue_1951, guntrue_1931, guntrue_1907, and guntrue_1879.

Historical note so that future readers will be able to know what people in 2025 were talking about: here are the six mentioned glider guns as they currently appear on Catagolue. Looks like an exercise in pointless densification:

Code: Select all

Someone did the same thing with guntrue_9760, a gun I revealed yesterday.

EDIT: Same with Guntrue_285

Found more today with guntrue_3457, guntrue_3449, guntrue_3433, guntrue_3271, guntrue_3607, guntrue_3719, guntrue_3943, guntrue_3947, guntrue_4111, guntrue_4951, guntrue_3391, guntrue_3343, guntrue_3511, guntrue_3623, guntrue_3847, guntrue_4127, guntrue_3407, guntrue_3463, guntrue_3631, guntrue_3911, guntrue_3967, guntrue_4079, guntrue_3359, guntrue_3527, guntrue_3583, guntrue_3863, guntrue_3919, guntrue_3319, guntrue_3767, guntrue_3823, guntrue_4271, guntrue_4327.

I got this list by checking all the primes mentioned in the three most recent posts on the "Small Four-Digit Prime Period Guns" thread.

Well, I don't really know what could drive someone to that level of determination regarding pointless densification of glider guns.

Maybe they are trying to point out a deficiency in the current Catagolue design, where there's no easy way to replace a high-population gun by a lower-population gun with the same computed bounding box? Related: viewtopic.php?p=205865#p205865

[hotdogPi]

This is dvgrn (offscreen) and DroneBetter (the user named furry descartes). There's no guarantee that they're referring to themselves, though.

[confocaloid]

Well, I would expect a thread like this to appear approximately four days later, but otherwise it would be interesting to know the possibilities.

BTW, it isn't exactly a bug or error, it just doesn't care about population at all, so it may be better to move this thread to "General discussion" board instead.

My understanding is that changing Catagolue to allow tie-breaking by population would be nontrivial, and would involve changing existing tabulations rather than merely changing the source code.

Crossposting several examples:

[...] guntrue_1999, guntrue_1979, guntrue_1951, guntrue_1931, guntrue_1907, and guntrue_1879.

Historical note so that future readers will be able to know what people in 2025 were talking about: here are the six mentioned glider guns as they currently appear on Catagolue. Looks like an exercise in pointless densification:

Code: Select all

x = 765, y = 103, rule = B3/S23
2b2o10b2o7b2o10b2o3b2o10b2o17b2o3b2o4b2o20bo45b2o13b2o3b2o9b2o4b2o6b2o
15bo6b2o45b2o27b2o3b2o16b2o20bo23bo25b2o5bo14bo12b2o3b2o9b2o35b2o9b2o
4b2o58b2o3b2o10b2obo4bo15b2o10bo8b2o7b2o24bo5b2o16b2o7b2o3b2o16b2o2bo
13b2o2b2o6b2o11b2o9b2o$bobo10bo7bobo3bo4b3obo2b2o11bo11b2o4bo4bobo3bob
o3b2obo10b3o3b2o23b2o6b2o6bobo11b3obo2b2o8bo2bo2bo2bo4bo2bo8bo4bobo5bo
4b2o34b2o3bobo25b3obo2b2o13bobobo19bobo15b2o4bobo3b2o20bo4bobo12bobo9b
3obo2b2o9bobo18b2o12bo2bo4b2o3bobo3bobo34bo11b2o7b3obo2b2o9bo2b2o3bobo
14b2o9bobo7bo7bobo23bobo5bo13bobobo5b3obo2b2o17bo2b3o7bo3bo4bo7bo11bo
9bobo$b2o7bo4b3o4bo4bobo2bo4bo14bo13bo5bo6bo4bo3bob2o4bo4bo5bobo24bo5b
obo6bo12bo4bo13b2o4b2o5bo2bo7bobo4bo4bobo3bobo3b2o7b2o21bo3bo26bo4bo
17b2o5b2o16bo8b2o3b2o2bo3bobo3bobo19bo5b2o12bobo9bo4bo14bo3bo7b2o5bobo
3b2ob2o4b2o5bo2bo3bo7bobo30bobo10bobo5bo4bo13b2o3b2o2bo5bo16bo2bobo6bo
bo6bobo24bobo4bo14b2o7bo4bo19bo7bo5bobo3bo3bobo3bo14bo8b2o$8b3o6bo3b2o
4b2o3bo2b2ob4o10b2o11bo3b3o8bo3b2o9bobo3b2o3bobo25bobo3bo7b2o6b2o4bo2b
2ob4o23b2o4b2o3bobo8b2o3bobo4b2o7bo21bo3b2o6bobo17bo2b2ob4o8b2o9bobo
11bob3o4bo4bobo2bob2o5bo3bo23b3o8bo7bo5bo5bo2b2ob4o13bobo5bo2bo4bo5b2o
bo12bo2bo12b2o31bobo12bo4bo2b2ob4o14bo4b3obobo3b2o8b3o2b2o7b2o7b2o3b2o
21bo5bobo4bob2o13bo2b2ob4o9b2o4b2o5b2o4bo2bo4bo3b2o3b2o14bo3bo$b2o4bo
3b2o18b2obobobo2bo4b2o11bobo3b2o2bo9b2o14b2o2b2o6bo27b2o2b2o15bo4b2obo
bobo2bo4b2o24bo5bo14bo15bo20b2o8b3ob3o4b2o8b2obobobo2bo4b2o2bobo8b2o
11bob2o5bobo4b2o14bo26bo7bobo5b2o4bobo3b2obobobo2bo4b2o6bobo5bo2bo6bo
9bo11b2o36b2o9bo7b2o5bo2b2obobobo2bo4b2o6bobo6bobo2bo2bobo6bo28bobo27b
2o4b2obo4b2o6b2obobobo2bo4b2o3bobo17b2o6bo16b2o4b2o2bobo$2bo4b2o2bo20b
obobobo8bo10bob2o28b2o8bo29bo22b2obo5bobobobo8bo6bo5b2o3b2o3bo7b2o2b2o
12bo6b2o2bobo29bo7bo3bo2b2o6bobobobo8bo3bo14b2o6bo9b2o20b2o33b2o3bo7bo
bo5bobobobo8bo5bobo7b2o6b2o8b2o19b2o5b2o22bo4bo5b3o4bobo3b2o3bobobobo
8bo6b2o8bobobo3bobo5b2o28bobo21b2o17bobo6bobobobo8bo4bobo23b2o11b2o2bo
2bo3bo4b2o3b2o$bo6bo3bo12b2o5bobob2o7bo12bo13bo17bobo7bobo27b3o13b2o5b
obo6bobob2o7bo7bobo2bo2bo2bo2bo2b2o10bobo10bobo6bo2b2o31bo5b2o4b2obo6b
obob2o7bo8bo11bobo4b2o22b2obo35bo8bobo6b2o6bobob2o7bo8bo3bobo6b2o9b2o
5b2o3b2o11bo6bo19b3o4bobo6bo5bobo7bobob2o7bo15bo3bobo5bo18b2o17b2o21bo
19b2o6bobob2o7bo7b2o9bo26b2o3bobo4bo7bobo$o6bo5bo12bo6bo11b5o7b2o4b2o
6bobo8bo8bo9b2o30bo4b2o6bo16bo11b5o2bo2bo2b2o4bobo18bobo8bobo3bo36b2o
22bo11b5o3bobob2o8bobo26bo2b2o34bobo7b2o16bo11b5o7bob2o7bo9bo5bobo3bo
10bo7bo20bo6b2o14b2o8bo11b5o9b3o4bo17b2o5bobo4b2o32bobo3b2o23bo11b5o
10bo2bobo5b2o12b2o10bo4b2o6bo$2o5b2o5bo11bobo20bo3bo10bo6b2o7b3o3bo7bo
37b2o3bobo3b2obo32bo3b2o10bo20b2o4bo4bobo2b2o29bo25bo19bo2bo2bobobo8b
2o17bo8b2o37b2o12b2o3b2o23bo7bo10bob2o4bobo4bobo5b3obo5b2o6b2o20b2o46b
o8bo21b2obobo5bo6bobo6bo24b2o5bo39bo8b3o3b2o4bobo4b2o7bo22bo$13b2o5bo
6bobo13b4o5bobo6b3o15bo5bobo5bobo8b2obo28bo6bobo27b4o11b2o8b2o6bo4bo8b
3o5b2o7bo24bobo23bobo12b4o6b2o3b2o3bo13b2o7bobo13b2o4bo30bo8bobo4bo17b
4o9b2o11bobo4b2o6bo8bob3o34bo4b2o34b4o10bobo7bo3b2o6bobob2o5b2o9bobo2b
obo30bob2o5bo4bo19b4o10bo13bo5bobo6bobo20b2o$19bobo6bo8b2o4bo2bo6bo7bo
4bo12b2o5bobo5bobo7bob2o27bo31b2o4bo2bo10bobo8bo6bobo2bobo6bo15b3o25bo
bo21bobo7b2o4bo2bo15bobo9bobobo7bobo13bo4bobo20b2o6bobo7bo5bo12b2o4bo
2bo51bo32bo4bo2bo7b2o4bob2o10b2o4bo2bo11bo7bobo3bo5bobo21b2o2b2o32bobo
4bobo3b3o11b2o4bo2bo9bobo19b2o7bobo16bo$7b2o9bobo16b2o15b3o8bobo7bo11b
o7bobo37b2o18b2o10b2o18bo8bobo7bo4bobo5b2o13bo29bobo8bo11b2o8b2o24bo5b
o4b2o11bo11b2obo5bobo19bo2b2o4bo7b2o4bo13b2o21bobo4bo13b2o4b2o8bo32bo
6bo2bo5bobo4b2o2bo9b2o22bo5b2o2bo6b2o10b2o54bob2o6bo10b2o18bo24b2o4bo
8b2ob2o3bobo$7b2o10bo7bo22b2o4bo9bobo5bobo14b2o3bo4b2o38b2o7bo3bobo23b
2o6bo6bobo5b3o6b2o12bo8bo29bo8bobo4b2o27b2o16bobo20b2o6bobo7b2o21b2o2b
3o4b2o7bo27b2o7bob2o3bobo4b2o3b2o2bo3bobo8b2o7b2o22b2o6b2o5bo10b2o22b
2o8bobo9b3o8b2o5bobob2o14bo24bobo8bo8bobo22b2o19bo10bo13bobobobo3bo$4b
o20b3o17b2obo2bo15bobo5bo16bo8bo5bo32bobo5b3o3bo20b2obo2bo5b2o7bo6bo
18b2o2b3o5b2o37bo2bo3bobo22b2obo2bo6b2o8b2o15bo5bo43b2o5bo2bo6b2o21b2o
bo2bo7bo7b2o4bo4bob2o3bobo3b2o13bobo35bo30b2obo2bo9b2o11bo8bo9b2o2bo4b
2o5bobo22bob2o7b2o4b2o3bo18b2obo2bo17b3o11bo9bobo5b2o4b3o$2b3o19bo20b
2ob2o13b2o3bo12b2o6b3o7bobo3b3o22bob2o5bobo5bo7bo19b2ob2o12b2o28bo6bo
9b2o19b2o7bo4b2o4bo24b2ob2o4b2o3bo17bo6bobo5bo50b2o30b2ob2o8b2o14bo9bo
bo5bo10bo3b2o25b2o8b2o2b2o25b2ob2o4bo12b2o11b2obo12b2o3bo2bo5bo23bo16b
obo21b2ob2o4bo10b2obo3b2o3b2ob3o10b2o14bo$bo15b2o5b2o30b2o6bo15bobo6bo
8bobo3bo25b2obo6bo5bobo5b2o35bobo25bo4bo3b2o10bo19bo7bobo8b2o32bo2bo2b
obo13b3o5bobo3b3o17b2o86b2o2b3o10b2o5bo9b3o29bobo10bo2b3o32b3o11bo11bo
bo4b2o13b2o7b3o19b2o18bo29bobo8bobob2o2bo5bobo$b2o13bo2bo37bo3b3o15bo
13b2o4bo4b2o41bo34b2o7b2o8b2obob2o4b2o4bobo2b2o8b2o4bo21b3o4b2o43bo2bo
3b2o12bo7bobo4bo4bo13bobo20b2obo13b2o47bo3bo18bo9bo31bobo11b2o4bo28bo
5bo9bo5bob2o9bo2bo16bo6bo39b2o29bo6bobo9bo3bo22b2o5bo4bo$12b2o2bo2bo
35bo5bo16bo14bobo34b2obo8b2o7bo29bobo17b2ob2o2bo2bo2bo2bobo13bo5b2o22b
o8b2o34b2o4b2o18b2o7bo9bobo11bo23bob2o7b2o4bo36b2o6bo4bo8bob2o9b2o7bob
o30b2o8b2o7bobo26bobo3b2o8bo6b2obo10b2o7b2o7bobo34b2o41b3o3b2o9b2o2bo
19bo3bo5bobo2bobo$12bo4b2o29bo6b2o15bo5b2o16bo7b2o24bob2o8bo7bobo28bo
25b2o3b2o3bo16bo37bo35bobo12bo6bo23bobo4bobo2bo35bo6bo34bo2bo3b3o5bo7b
2o2bob2o15b2o40bo9bo28b2o12bo25b2o3b2o6bo2bo4bo29bo44bo18b2o2b2o3b2o5b
o2bobo3b3o3bo3bo2bo$7b2o5bo19b2o11bobo21bobo23bo5bobo2b2o27b2o5bo4bobo
12b2o14b2o8b2o2b2o20b2o6b2o2b2o5bo31b2o5bo2b2o15b2o14bo10b3o5bobo8bo
14b2o3bob2o2b2o29b2o5bo3b2o14b2o14b2o3bobo2bo7b2o10b2obobo4b2o3b2o12b
2o26b2o5bo19b2o29b2o11b2o11bo12bobo3b3o24b2o5bo3b2o14b2o14b2o14b2o13bo
2bobo4bobo2bo6bo8bobo$2o5bo5b2o20bo12bo13bo7bobo8bob2o4b2o5b2o5bo4bo
28bo5b2o3bobo14bo20bo3b2o2bo2b2o2b2o22bo3bo4b2o31bo5b2o2bobo15bo14b2o
8bo7bobo3bo4bobo18bo36bo5b2o20bo14bo5bo3b2o24bo4bo2bo2bo8bobobo26bo5b
2o20bo37bo4bobo11bo12bo3bo27bo5b2o3b2o15bo14bobo12bo2bo11bo3bo7bo20bo$
bo2b2obo24b3o26bobo7bo9b2obo3bo2bo12bo4bo24b2obo11bo12b3o20bobo7b2obo
3bo7bobo11bo3bo35b2obo10b2o12b3o20b2o2bobo5bobo3bobo4bo4bo13b2o33b2obo
24b3o16bo35bo2bo4bobo8b2o26b2obo24b3o20b2o4bobo8bobo5bo10b2o5b2o8bobo
23b2obo24b3o16bobo7b2o3bo2bo7bobo3b2o4b3o$o3bo2bob2o2b2o17bo19b2o7b2o
11b2o11bo2bo9bo2b2o3b2o24bo2bob2o2b2o17bo18b2o3bo15bobo5b2obo10b2o2b2o
4b2o28bo2bob2o2b2o17bo21bobo2b2obo3bobo3bobo8b3o6b2o12bo27bo2bob2o2b2o
17bo17b2o11b2o9bo11b2o2b2o4bo5bo31bo2bob2o2b2o17bo22bo4bob2o3bo5bobo3b
o5bo5bo6bobo8b2o23bo2bob2o2b2o17bo4b2o14bo8bo4b2o8b2o10bo$2o4b2obo3b2o
37bo14b2o6bo12b2o8b3o35b2obo3b2o23b2o11bobo19b2o8bo20bo4b2o25b2obo3b2o
14bo24b2o6bo2bobo3bobo8bo8bo2bo10bobo28b2obo3b2o45b2o2bo8bobo25bobo6bo
25b2obo3b2o13b2o7b2o17bo3bo5bobo5bo4b2o2b3o6bo7bo3bo31b2obo3b2o13b2o7b
o15b2o5bo10b2o24b2o6bo6b2o$9bo24bo4bo14bob2o8bobo5bo7b2o13bo41bo28bo
14bo4b2ob2o20b2o17bobo3bobo28bo17b3o9bo22b2o2bo5bo8bobo8bo2bo5b2o3bobo
30bo50bob2o4b2o4bo8b2o16b2o6bobo27bo17bo2bo6bobo15b2o2b2o6bobo12bo10bo
6b2obobo33bo17bo2bo4bobo22b2o8bobo24bo6bobo3bo2bo$9b2o22bobo2bobo12b2o
bo6bobo5bobo9bo12bobo6b2o32b2o24b2obo3bo10b2o3b2obobo17b2o19b2o5bo29b
2o15bo12b3o40bo10b2o6b2o5bo30b2o27b2o27bobo13bo24bobo28b2o17bobo7bobo
27bo14bo10bo9b2o2b2o29b2o17b2o4bobo32bobo23bobo5bobo4b2o$15bo11bo5b2o
3bo2bo15bo5b2o6b2o9bo14bo4b2o2bo38bo19bobo3bobo18bo13bo5bo5b2o55bo9bob
o14bo13b2o18bo11b2o18b2o35bo10bo10bo2bo16b2o9bo16bo21bobo35bo13bo9b2o
35bo5b2o4b2o3b2o13bobo34bo19bo20bo13bo10b2o12b2o6b2o$2ob2o9bobo8b3o11b
2o17bobo16bo4b2o5b2o11bob2o24b2ob2o9bobo7b2o15bo2bo30bobo3bo6b2o5b2o
33b2ob2o9bobo9bo14b2o12bo2bo16bobo10b2o3b2o35b2ob2o9bobo8bobo10bobo16b
o2bo16bo6b2o3b2o4bo7b2o3bo21b2ob2o9bobo58bobo10b2o9b2o8b2o19b2ob2o9bob
o26b2o10bobo19bo3bo2bo4b2o$2obo11bo8bo34b2o15bobo10b2o39b2obo11bo8bo7b
2o8bobo18bo3bo3b2o2bobo3b2o11bobo3b2o28b2obo11bo16b2o22b2o5bo3bo3b2o2b
obo15bo2b2o5b2o25b2obo11bo8bo2bo11bo5bo13b2o15bobo10b2o3bobo5bobo6b2o
17b2obo11bo16b2o29bo3bo3b2o2bobo20bo2bo28b2obo11bo8b2o17b2o11bobo17bob
o4b2o4b2o16b2o$3bo19bobo7b2o29bo3bo3b2o2bobo54bo21bo6bobo8bo17b3o2bobo
2bo2b2ob2o14bobo3bobo6b2o23bo19bo8bobo26b3o2bobo2bo2b2ob2o15b2obo5bobo
27bo21b2o6b2o9bobo17bo3bo3b2o2bobo16bobo3bobo6bobo20bo28bobo26b3o2bobo
2bo2b2ob2o15b2o2bobo8b2o22bo20bo8b2o22bo6bo3bo3b2o2bobo27bobo4bo$3b3o
4b2o12bo3b2o3bobo26b3o2bobo2bo2b2ob2o14b2o10b2o25b3o4b2o14bo7bo4b2o19b
o5bobo3bobo18b2o4bo7bo2bo22b3o4b2o10bobo9bo4b2o19bo5bobo3bobo30bo5bo
21b3o4b2o21bobo9bobo14b3o2bobo2bo2b2ob2o17bo4bo6bobo21b3o4b2o10b2o10bo
4b2o19bo5bobo3bobo19bo4bo5bo3b2o22b3o4b2o10bobo8bobo10b2o14b3o2bobo2bo
2b2ob2o16b2o9bo4bobo$b2o3bo3b2o16bo6bo4b2o19bo5bobo3bobo18bobo2b2o6bo
23b2o3bo3b2o15bo2b4ob2o2bo2bo4b2o11b2o5bob4o2bob2o21bo6bobo21b2o3bo3b
2o10bo2bo4b4ob2o2bo2bo17b2o5bob4o2bob2o25bo4b3o19b2o3bo3b2o23bo4b2o4bo
14bo5bobo3bobo21b2o9bobo20b2o3bo3b2o11bo6b4ob2o2bo2bo17b2o5bob4o2bob2o
17bo6b3o25b2o3bo3b2o10b2o11bo4b2o5bo13bo5bobo3bobo21bo13bo2bo$o2b4o19b
obo2b4ob2o2bo2bo17b2o5bob4o2bob2o15bo3bo6bo23bo2b4o19b2o2bo2bobobobob
2o3bobo20bo3bobob2o20b2o7bo21bo2b4o16b2o5bo2bobobobob2o3bob2o19bo3bobo
b2o18bo6b2o2bo21bo2b4o17b2o5b4ob2o2bo2bo17b2o5bob4o2bob2o27bobo20bo2b
4o16bobo4bo2bobobobob2o3b2o21bo3bobob2o16b2o5bo27bo2b4o24b4ob2o2bo2bo
2bo14b2o5bob4o2bob2o15bo5b2o8bobo$2obo15b2o5b2o3bo2bobobobob2o26bo3bob
ob2o20bo2bobo24b2obo15b2o12bobobobo6b2o20bo3bobo20bo34b2obo15b2o12bobo
bobo6b2o2bo17bo3bobo21bobob2o6b4o18b2obo15b2o3b2o5bo2bobobobob2o26bo3b
obob2o17b2o7bobo21b2obo15b2o3b2o7bobobobo5bo2bo19bo3bobo20bo5bobo26b2o
bo15b2o10bo2bobobobob2o3b3o20bo3bobob2o15b2o4bobo8bo$bo2b3o12bobo12bob
obobo28bo3bobo21b3o3b2o26bo2b3o12bobo12b2obobo27bo3bobo21b3o7b2o24bo2b
3o12bobo12b2obobo9b2o16bo3bobo21bo2bob2o9bo19bo2b3o12bobo12bobobobo28b
o3bobo22bo8bo23bo2b3o12bobo12b2obobo5bobo19bo3bobo22bo5bo8b2o18bo2b3o
12bobo3b2o7bobobobo8bo19bo3bobo26bo$bo5bo13bo13b2obobo8b2o17bo3bobo22b
o10b2o21bo5bo13bo16bo3b2o23b2o3bo25bo7bo24bo5bo13bo16bo28b2o3bo23b2o
12bo20bo5bo13bo13b2obobo27bo3bobo23bobo30bo5bo13bo16bo7bo20b2o3bo22b2o
12bo2bo18bo5bo13bo3bobo7b2obobo8bobo16bo3bobo$2b5o14b2o16bo9bo18b2o3bo
33bobo22b5o14b2o19b2o3b2o48bo7bo26b5o14b2o86bo22b5o14b2o16bo10b2o16b2o
3bo25bobo8bo21b5o14b2o18b2o7b2o57b2o21b5o14b2o5bobo8bo10bobo15b2o3bo$
4bo4bo40b3o54b2o25bo4bo14b2o22bo48b2o5bob3o25bo19b2o18b2obo61b2o23bo
38b2o5bo49bo8bobo22bo19b2o15b2o6bobo82bo24b2o20bo50b2o3b2o$8bobo14b2o
25bo46bo5b2o31bobo14bo7b2o13bobo52bobo2bo29b2o15bo7b2o8bo2b2o52bob2o
51b2o16bo4bobo52b2o3bobo44bo7b2o14b2o51b2o51b2o74bobo2bobo$9b2o15bo7b
2o7b2o53bobo5bo32bo15bobo5b2o8b2o4b2o29b2o21bo2bo32bo15bobo5b2o8b2o35b
2o18b2o2bo51bo7b2o8bo3b2o53bobo3bo26bo18bobo5b2o9b2o34b2o19bo2bo32b2o
17bo7b2o7b2obo54bo4bo5b2o$b2o8b2o13bobo5b2o7bobo35b2o16b2o5bob2o46b2o
15bobo34b2o22b2o24b2o6bo17b2o52b2o21b2o2b2o28bo18bobo5b2o9bo35b2o22bo
29bobo18b2o16bobo33b2o20bo2bo32bo17bobo5b2o7bob2o34b2o19bo2b2o4bobo$bo
9bobo13b2o16bo35b2o24bobo21b2o41b2o49b2o12bo21bo5bo87b2o10bo2bo25bobo
18b2o17bo34b2o21bo25b2o2bobo38b2o48b2o6b2o6bo19b2o4bo19b2o52b2o18b2o8b
o$2bo10bo31b2o49b2o4b2o27bobo5bo84bo2bo10bobo20bobo3b2o3bo81bo2bo11b2o
24bobo37b2o49b2o6b2o24bo4bo88bo2bo12bobo18bobo3b2o87b2o14bo$3bo8bo82bo
2bo3b2o29bo4bobo84b2obo10bo22b2o7bobo81b2obo35bobo5b2o81bo2bo10bo22bo
92b2obo10bobo20b2o91bo2bo12b2o$4bo7b2o82b2obo33b2o3bobo37b2o48bo41bobo
35b2o48bo36bo7bo82b2obo8bobo20b2o6bo38b2o48bo10bo116b2obo$3b2o11b2o31b
2o48bo39bo38b2o48b2o40bo37b2o48b2o8bo33bo36b2o48bo7bobo29b3o36b2o48b2o
8b2o25b2o6b2o34b2o48bo5bo$9b2o6bo31b2o48b2o101bob2o7b2o17bo36b2o61b2o
3bo5b2o18b2o2bobo32b2o3b2o30b2o48b2o6b2o28b2o3bo70b2o50b2o6bo35b2o48b
2o3bobo$10bo6bobo64b2o59b2o19b2o34b2o2bo7bo16bobo42bo19b2o34bobobobo5b
o19bo3b2o34bobobo65b2o50bobo2bo24b2o38bo7bo17b2o40bo69b2o19bobo$5b2o2b
o8b2o17b2o36b2o8bo19b2o26b2o5b2o3bo20bo3bo34b2o4b3o16bobo30b2o11b3o17b
o3bo32b2obobo2b3o19bo30b2o8b2o21b2o46bo19bo30bo4b2o7bo15bo3bo34bobo3b
3o18bo27bob2o7b3o5b2o16b2o38b2o6bo20bo$2bobobo2b2o3b2o21bo3bo33bobo4b
3o20bo27bobo3bobo4bo20b4o28b2o10bo19bo4b2o25bobo13bo17b4o28b2o6bo3bo
21b2o26bobobo31bo3bo40b3o18b3o26b2o3bo11bobo15b4o28b2o4b2o4bo4b2o12bob
o2b2o23b2o2bo6bo7bobo15bo3bo36bo3b3o17b2o9bo$2b2o10bo23b4o28b2o4bobo3b
o24bo26bobo3bo4b2o52bobo34bo27bo3b2o3bo4bobo48bobo35b2o22b2o19bo15b4o
28b2o4b2o4bo19bo30bo2b2o12bo48bobo14bobo11b2o4bo26b2o10b2o3bobo15b4o
28b2o4bo5bo19bo2bo6bobo$12bobo55bobo4bo9b2o14b5o27bo29b4o32bo36bo29bo
3bobo3b2o15b4o32bo12b2o21bo31bo10b3o47bobo3bobo24bo4b2o23bobo4b2o23b4o
32bo3b2o4bo5bobo15bo38bobo4bo48bobo3b2o9b2o15b2o7bo$12b2o4b2o16b4o32bo
11bo3bo13bo62bo2b3o30b2o2bo4bo7b2o14b5o27bobo3bobo20bo2b3o30b2o7b2o2bo
bo22bo25b2obobo5b2obo16b4o32bo6bobo4b2o14b2o4bo25b2o4bobo2bo19bo2b3o
30b2obo2bo2bobo5bo15bo4b2o33b2o20b4o32bo14bobo$16bo2bo16bo2b3o30b2o5b
2o2bobo2bobo12b3o26b2o37bo32bobo2bobo7bo13bo32b2o5bo27bo38b2o4bo2b2o
14b5o25b2obo2bo5bob2o15bo2b3o30b2o6b2o5bo22bo30bo2bobo24bo33bobo3bobo
20b2o3bo26b2o28bo2b3o30b2o15bo20b2o$4bo11b2o24bo23bob2o9bo3b2o4b2o15bo
26bo8b2o26bobo32bobo2bo8bobo12b3o26bo36bobo25bo7b2o7bo4bo13bo27bo6bobo
2b3o25bo42bo4b2o14b5o34bo24bobo33bo5bo28bo24bobo33bo46b2o19bo$3bobo3b
2o30bobo22b2obo5b2o3b3o20b4o26bob2o4bo2bo25bobo27b2o4bo7bo5b2o15bo24bo
bo35bobo24bobo5bobo7b2o3bobo12b3o23bobo6bo3bo26bobo23b2o16b2o4bo13bo
35bo28bobo29b2o17b2o14b5o20b2o3bobo31bobo23b2o10bo32bo$4bo3bobo3bo26bo
bo28b2o2bo5bo15b2o3bo3b2o25bobo5bobo26bo22b2o5bo11bobo18b4o23bobo5b2ob
o28bo26b2o5bo15b2o15bo23b2o37bobo23b2o5bobo14bobo12b3o23bo7bobo28bo31b
o4b2o6bo5bo13bo25bobo3b2o31bobo23bo10bobo5b2o4b2o14b5o$b3o3bobo3bobo
26bo29bob2o9b2o11b2o4b3o2bo33bo14b2o33bo2bo3bo7b2o4bo3bo10b2o3bo3b2o
22bo6bob2o51b2o8b2o4b2o23b4o28b2o33bo30bob2o4b2o9b2o15bo21bobo7bo15b2o
37b2o4bo5bo7b3o3bobo12b3o24bo37bo21b2obo9bobobo4bobo4bo13bo$bo6bo4b2o
52b2o15bobo19bob2o28b2o17bobo34b2o3bo9bo7bobo9b2o4b3o2bo46b2o34bobo14b
obo17b2o3bo3b2o25bo2bo19b2o33b2o7bo6bo2bo22b4o22b2o23bo38bo6b3o3bo9bo
3b2o15bo23b2o5bob2o49bobo10bo2bo6bo5bobo12b3o$67bo15bobo20bo31bobo15bo
bo39bo6b2o2bobo5b2o18bob2o45bo2bo34bo18bo16b2o4b3o2bo25b2o20bo35bo6b2o
7b2o18b2o3bo3b2o46bo38bo7bo2b2o8bobo16b4o30b2obo56b2o3b2o16b2o15bo$28b
2o38bo10bo3b2o20b2o32bo15bobo3b2o35b2o5bo4bobo24bo49bo2bo36b2o15bo23bo
b2o48bo34bobo9bo23b2o4b3o2bo43bobo39bo18bobo12b2o3bo3b2o42b2o45bo11b2o
2bo19b4o$4b2o23bo35b3o10bobo53bo20b2o3bobo44bo3bobo22b2o26bo23b2o36bob
o2b2o5bo4b2o23bo25b2o21b3o36b2o8bobo30bob2o21bo21b2o3bo37bo16bobo13b2o
4b3o2bo20b2o19bobo3b2o37bo8b2o4bo2b3o12b2o3bo3b2o$5bo22bo36bo13bobo52b
3o22bobo40b2o2b2o4bo20bo30b3o25b2o32b2o4bo4bobo3bo23b2o26bo21bo4b2o41b
obo6b2ob2o20bo24b3o23bobo35b2o8b2o7bo22bob2o21bo21bo2bo2bo36b2o6bobo3b
o6bo11b2o4b3o2bo$3bo23bo5b2o35bo9bo16b2o38bo21b2o41bo29bobo32bo24bo38b
o5bo2bo4bo47bo28bo42b2o6bobobo20b2o27bo22bobo35bo9bo2bo28bo22bo22bo4bo
2bo42bobo3bo6b2o19bob2o$3b5o14b2o3b2o5bo34bobo25bo7bo30b2o15b2o45bobo
25b2o3bo4bo27b2o15b2o8bo37bobo4b2o4b2o24bo22b5o14b2o5bo3bo46bobo2bobo
48b2o15b2o6bo37bo10b2o27b2o22b5o14b2o2b2o4b2o43b2o4b2o26bo$8bo13bo9bo
36b2o27b3o3bobo45bobo44bobo26bo8bobo42bobo5b3o39b2o25b2o7b3o27bo13bo5b
obo3bo35bo9b2o3b2o65bobo43b2o6bo61bo13bo48b2o37b2o$5b3o12bobo9b2o42bo
23bo2bo2bo25b2o14b2o2bo5b2o6b2o32bo28b3o5bobo22b2o14b2o2bo7bo5b2o61bo
7bo27b3o12bobo4bo2bo2b2o34bobo28b2o30b2o14b2o2bo6bo6b2o37bobo5b2o50b3o
12bobo6b2o39bo2bo9b2o21b2o$4bo15b2o15b2o20bo14b3o27b2o25bo2bo13bobob2o
5bo5bobo39bo15bo7bo6bo22bo2bo13bobob2o11bobo18b2o42b3o4b2o25bo15b2o6b
2o7b2o31bobo27bo30bo2bo13bobob2o4bobo4bobo34b2o2b2o6bo16b2o8b2o21bo15b
2o7bo7b2o32bo2bo6bo2bo22bo$4b4o17b2obo7bobo19bobo12bo18bo38bob2o14b2ob
o2bo3bobo3bo22bo16b3o14bobo36bob2o14b2obo2bo9bo20bobo19bo23bo31b4o28bo
bo32bobo27b3o27bob2o14b2obo2bo2b2o5bo36bo10bo17bo9bobo20b4o18b2obo6bob
o33b2o4bo2b2o19b2o3bob2o$2b2o3bo3b2o11bo2b2o7bo18b2o2bo13b2o16bobo6b2o
28b2o22b2o4b2o2b2o7b2o12bobo14bo18bobo10bo23b2o22b2o8b2o7b2o14bobo14b
3o14b2o37b2o3bo3b2o23bo18b2o15bo6bo23bo26b2o22b2o8b2o7b2o29bo8b2o17b3o
8bo18b2o3bo3b2o13bobo7bo18b2o19b3o23bo5bobo$bo2b3o4b2o11b2o9b2o7b2o9bo
4b3o28bo2bo5bo29bo2b2o38b2o13bobo13b2o19bo9bobo22bo2b2o38b2o15b2o13bo
17bobo10b2o23bo2b3o4b2o12b2o8b2o7b2o9bo5b2o14b3o50bo2b2o38b2o15b2o11b
2o5bo23bo7bo18bo2b3o4b2o22b2o7b2o9bo19bo22b2o3b3o$b2obo39b2o10bo5bo29b
2o3b2obo6b2o22b2o2bo54bo31bo2b2o4b2o3bobo22b2o2bo24b2o43b2o18bo6b2o2bo
bo22b2obo19bobo17b2o10bo3bobo13bo26bo5b2o20b2o2bo22b2o30bo17b3o17b2o7b
2o3b2o17b2obo39b2o10bo17bobo4bo15bobo5bo6b2o$4bo50b2o28b2ob2o7bobo8bo
24b2obo15b2o5bo21b2obo5b2o28b3o8bobo3b2o24b2obo15b2o6bo20b2obo40b2o5bo
4bobo24bo19b2o29b2o4bo14b2o14bo5b2o3b3o4bo22b2obo15b2o4bobo20b2obo6bo
15bo20bobobo4bobo24bo24b2o24b2o3b2o13bo3b3o15b2o14bo$4b2o46b2o31b2obo
18bo23b2o2bo5bo10b2o4bobo3b2o15b2ob3o32bo8bo3bobo26b2o2bo5bo10b2o3b2ob
o4b2o14b2ob3o32bobo7bo4bo3bo25b2o30b2o14b2o37bobo3bobo6bo3bobo18b2o2bo
5bo10b2o6bo20b2ob3o5bo14b2o22b2o5b2o24b2o22bo2bo20b2o7bo16bo28b2o3bo$
29b2o3bo17b2ob2o32bo11bob2obo23bo2bo6bobo16bo5bo21bo30bobo6bobo3bo26bo
2bo6bobo14bobo6bo20bo30bob2o6bobo2b2o32b2o21bob2o3bo14b2ob2o33bobo3bob
o6b2o4b2o17bo2bo6bobo17b2o3b2o20bo3b2o96bobo2bo17b2ob2o4bobo14b2o21bo
4bo2bo2b2o$2o27bo4b3o18bo34bo3b2o5b2obob2o23b2o7bobo17b3o2bobo13b2ob3o
27bo4bo4bo3bobo7b2o21b2o7bobo22bo15b2ob3o3bob2o24bo8bo2bo37bo21b2obo2b
o18bo34b2o4b2o33b2o7bobo13bo8bobo13b2ob3o38b2o11b2o50bo3b3o18bo6bobo
35bobo4b2o$obo9b2o16bo6bo14b2o3bo5b2o21b2o3bo2bo46bo20bo3b2o12bo2b2o
28bobo6b3o4b2o6bo2bo30bo14bo8bobo12bo2b2o5b2obo23b2o8bobo3b2o32bo4b2o
22b2o14b2o3bo5b2o37b2o37bo13bobo8b2o12bo2b2o34b2o5bo10bo2bo23bob2o4b2o
23bo14b2o3bo5bo31b2o4b2o$bo11bo15b2o5bobo12bo2b4o4bobo5b2o15bo2b2o3bo
55b2o26bobo12b2o17b2o6bo15bobo41b2o2bobo8b2o11bobo46bo3bobo31bo6bo37bo
2b4o2bobobo36bobo3b2o42b2o3bobo20bobo35bo2bo5bobo9b2o24b2obo5bo22bobo
12bo2b4o35b3o2bo4b2o7bobo$10b3o24bo12bobobo7bo7b2o14bo5b3o5b2o50bo8bo
16bobob2obo7bobo5b2o19bo15bo43bo3bo4bo16bobob2obo9b2o15bo18bobo31bo4b
3o37bobobo5b2o29b2o8b2o5bo43bo4bo3bo16bobob2obo4b2o25b2o8bobo4b2o34b3o
24bo12bobobo37bo4b2o4bobo5bob2o$4bo5bo5b2o14bo18bo2bob2o3b2o15b2o6bobo
3bo6bo2bo32b2o12b3o9b3o15bo2bob2o7bo7b2o18b2o6bobo33b2o12b3o9b3o15bo2b
ob2o8bobo5b2o7bobo2bob2o4b2o5b2o32b2o3bo21bo18bo2bob2o8b2o22bobo2b2o
10bo27b2o12b3o9b3o15bo2bob2o4bobo29b2o4bo5bobo24bo8bo8bo12bo18bo2bob2o
35bo10b2o5bo$3bobo9bobo14b3o19bobo8b2o11bo8b2o10bobo3b2o28b2o12bo5bo8b
o17bo9b2o18b2o14bob2o33b2o12bo14bo17bo11bo7b2o8bo3b2o2bo3bobo8bob2o39b
o13b3o19bobo8bobo5b2o9b2o4b2o4bo10bobo25b2o12bo14bo17bo9bo4b2o15bo6bob
o11bo3b2o19bobo2b2o11bobo11b3o19bobo29bob2o2b2o16b2o$4bo10bo19bo17b2o
2bo6bobo8bo3b3o18bo4bo44b2o3b3o5b2o16b2o30bo2b2o10bo6bo44b2o11b2o16b2o
10b2o18b3o3b2o6bobo5b2o2bo20bobo7bo7b3o14bo17b2o2bo7bo7b2o8bo2bo8bo12b
2o40b2o3b2o6b2o16b2o8bo4bobo5b2o7bobo5b2o15bo2bo18bobo3bo10bobo15bo17b
2o2bo4b2o4b2o16b2obo10bo$14b2o18b2o14bobo2bobo6bo6b2obobo4bo14b2o5bobo
45bo6bo19bobo2b2o21bo5bo4bo9b2o5bobo24b2o18bo5bo20bobo2b2o30bo12b2o8b
2o20b2obo4b3o10bo12b2o14bobo2bobo6b2o18bo2bo6bo56bo2bobo21bobo2b2o6b2o
3bo7b2o8bobo14b2o5bobo20bo3bo10bobo15b2o14bobo2bobo3bobo3bobo5b2o22bob
o$2o3bo16bo27b2o2bobo6b2o5bobobobo18bobo4bobo45bo6bobo18b2o2bo2bo16b2o
bobo4b2o2bo5b2o9bo2bo23bo2bo16bo4b3o20b2o2bo2bo4b2o15bo55bo3bo6b2o4b2o
28b2o2bobo3bo24b2o7b2o2b2ob2o47bo3b2o22b2o2bo2bo9b2o18b2o13bobo6bo25b
2o10bo32b2o2bobo4bo5bo7b2o17b2o2bobo2b2o5bo$bo2bobo14bobo7b2o22bo4b2o
5bo2bobobobob2o15bo7bo27bo18b2o5b2o24b2o5b2o2b2o5bobobobo8b2o3bobo9bob
o25bobo16b2o2bo28b2o4bo2bo10b2obobo15b2o37b2o2b2o3b3obo14b2o22bo3bobo
16bo19b2obo2bo3b2o40b2o31b2o32b2o8bo3bo46b3ob2o7b2o22bo6bo3b2o20bo4bob
o3bo4bo4bobo$o3bobo13bobo8bobo26bo6b4ob2o2bo2bo14b2o2bobo29bobo55bo2bo
2bo3bo2bobobobob2o9bo13bo4bo22bo3b2o15bobo33bobo10bobobobo15bo5bo6b2o
32bo5bo13bobo25bo2bo11b2obobo23b2o3bobo22b2o74bo7bobo6bobo3b3o6b2o19bo
10b2o5bobobo6bobo27b2o7b2o15bobo3bo9bo6bobo$2o3bo8b2obo3bo4bo4bo30bo8b
o4b2o9b2o9b2obo29bobo3b2o8b2o39b2o5bo2b4ob2o2bo2bo8bo7b2o9bobo25bo4bo
5b2o5bo35bo3b2o3bo2bobobobob2o3b2o4b2obo3b3o7bo33bo5bo3b2obo5bo28b2o
11bobobobo7bo21b2o22bo13b2o48bo7b2obobo7b2o7bobo4bo5bobo18bobo8bo2bo9b
obo3bo39bo8bo7bo5bo5bobo8b2o$14bob2o7bobo28bo4b2o6bobo14bo2bo11bo4bo
25bobo2bo9bobo34b2o8b2o6bo4b2o5b2o3b2o6bobo7bobo27bo2bobo4bobo34b2o9bo
3b4ob2o2bo2bo2bo2bo3bobo3bo7b3o33b2o4b2o2bo2b2o30bo13bo2bobobobob2o4b
3o44bo3b2o7bobo34b2o9b3o6bobobobo17bo10bobo18bobo9bobo11b2o28bo11b3o5b
2obobo11b2o5b2o$8b2o16bobo25b3o12b2o16bo2bo10b2o2bobo25bo4bo8bo36bo15b
obo11bobo11bobo6b2o27b2o2b2o5bo36bo9bo8bo4b2o5bo2bo3bo5bo6bo2b3o40b2o
31b3o13b4ob2o2bo2bo7bo4b2ob2o5bobo27bo3bo7bo36bo9bo6bo2bobobobob2o4b2o
3bo16bo20bo11bo40b3o4bo6bo6bobobobo7bo21b2o$7bobo17bo25bo24bo9b2o12bo
3bobo30bo3b2o37bobo5b2o8b2o13bobo6bo4bo4bo77bobo6bobo7bobo12b2o9b2o8bo
2bo30b2o40bo10b2o8bo4b2o8bo5b2obo5bob2o26b2o2bo43bobo8bobo5b4ob2o2bo2b
o4bo3bobo51b2o35bo5b3o10bo2bobobobob2o3bobo14b2o4bo$8bo7bo36b2o9b2o11b
obo21bo5bobo21bo6b2o2bo2bo36b2o6bobo18bo4b2o4b3o8bobo34b2o40b2o7b2o8b
2o33b2o25b2o6bo41b2o8bobo6bobo9bo4b2o8bo4bo34b3o40b2o4bobo3bo10bo4b2o
4bobo2bo2bo8b2o33b2o6bo36b2o3bo13b4ob2o2bo2bo2bobo7b2o5bobo6bo$15bobob
2o3bo39bobo4b2o5bobo12b2o5bo7b2o21b3o9bobo45bobo2b2o12bobo8bo11b2o26bo
9bo90bo29bobo3b2obo7bo4bo33b2o4bo7b2o9bobo14bo2b2o36bo46b2obo11bobo9bo
bo3bobo9bo8b2o25bo7b3o4bo32bobo3b2o11bo4b2o4b2o8bobobobo8b2o$8bo5bo2bo
bobo2b3o39bo4bo7bobo3b2o6bobo3bo4bo29bo9bo41bo5b2o3bo4b2o7bo9b2o4b2obo
29bobo8bobo44b2o31bo9bobo29bo4bobo7bobo3b3o30bobo7b2o15bobo12b2o8b2o
20b2o58bo11b2o11bo5bo11bo5bo2bo23bo11bo4b3o31bo3bo2bo8bobo16b2o3b2ob2o
$bob2o2bobo4bobo3b2o5bo37bo6bo7bo5bo7bo4b2o2bobo27bo21bobo27bobo8bo5bo
5b3o7bo7bo2b2o2b2o26bo10b2o11bobo29bo2bo9b2o4bobo4b2o5bobo8bo2bo3b2o
39bobo5bo30bo3bo5bo7b2o7bo10bo11bobo20bo2bo20bobo30b2ob2o5b2o27b2o6bo
4b2o25b2o4b2o12bo35bo2bo7b2o18bo12b2o3b2o$b2obo3bo3b2obo10bo31bob2o3b
2o6bob2o6b3o18bobo26b2o21b2o6bo21b2o7bo7bo4bo7b3o7b2o5bo52b2o6bo22bobo
5b2o2bobo4b2obo2bo2bo4bo2bo8bobo2bo2bo24b2o8b2o3b2o4bo34bobo3bo8bobo7b
3o6bobo10b2o23b2o21b2o6bo24bo7bobo9b2o15bobo5b2o37b2o11bo37b2o17bo10bo
bo9bobo2bo2bo$13bo12b2o30b2o2bo9b2obobo5bo10bo10bo43b2o5b2o5bo30bo6bob
o11bo19bo30b2o18b2o5bo24bo6bo4bo8bo3bo2bo4b2o10bo4b2o24bobo9bo9b2o32bo
bo4bobo7b2o2b2o5bo7bo48bo10b2o5bo25bob2o3bobo9bobo5bo8bobo34bo23b2o54b
obo10b2o8bobo4b2o$13bobo8b2o2bo32b2o2b2o11bobo7b2o3bobo12b2o29b2o3bo3b
o2bo42b2o5b2o11bobo17b2o30bobo7b2o48bo12b2o3b2o47bobo7b3o8b2o2bo30bobo
6b2o11bo17bo37b2o5bobo3bo39bobo4bo4bobo4bo5bobo8bo34bobo5b2o13b2o2bo
42b2o4bo3bobo22bo$14bobo6bo2b3o36bobo11b2o7bo4bo2bo11bo30bo3bobo2bobo
10bo48bo4bo53bo6bobo12bo33b2o29b2o6bo27bobo8bo9bo2b3o31bo13b2o6bo8b2o
5bobo37bo5b2o3bobo9bo40b2obo8bobo16b2o2bob2o21bobo4bo13bo2b3o41bobo3bo
bo3bo3bo$6bo3bo4bo8bo23bo17bo22bo4b2o6b2o2bobo22b2o3b2obo4b2o3bo10bo2b
o28bo11bo4bobo11b2o45bo6bobo10bo2bo38b2o10b2o8bo2bo5bobo2b2o21bobo14bo
5bo23bo16b2o6bobo7bobo6bo5bobo8b2o26bo12bobo7bo2bo41bo8b2o7b2o8bo3b2ob
o22bo6bo9bo3bo23bo13bobo5bo5b2o7bobo4b2o6b2obo4b2ob2o$5bobobobo13b4o6b
2o3b2o5bobo20bobo2b2o9b3o14bo2b2o23bobo2bobo21bobo28bobo9bobo2bo2bo11b
o11b2o29bo2b2o7bo11bobo32b2o4bobo6bo3bobob2o4b2o6bo2bo2bo21bobo3b2o9bo
bo5b4o6b2o3b2o5bobo15bobo4bobo9b2o5bo7bo3b2o4bobo25b2o8bo3bo8bobo13b2o
18bo8b2o17bo9bo31b2o3bobo5bobo3b4o6b2o3b2o5bobo12b2obo5bo14bo6bo5bo2b
2o5bobobo$4bobo3b2o7bob2o4bo7b2o3b2o6bo10bo9bob2o2bo6bo3bo10bo3bo31bo
15bo11bo25bo4bo3b2o4bo2bo2bobo8b2o3bo9bobo24bo3bobo23bo11b2o3b2o7bo6bo
bo3bo8bobo3b2obobo12b2o4bo21bo3bo2bo9b2o7bo7b2o3b2o6bo10bo6b2o4b2o3bob
2o9bo5bo6bo2bo3b2o18b2obo12bobo12bo14bo10bo7bobo26bob2o7bo6b2o21bobo4b
2o4bo2bo5bo7b2o3b2o6bo10bo5bo4b2o11b3o6bo6b2o5b3o4bo$5bo13b2o2bo5bo30b
o8bo7bo3bobo12bobo2b2o30b2o13bobo17b2o3b2obo11bo7b2o4bobo4bo6bobobo4bo
5bobo26bobo2b2o31b2o3bobo2b2o8bo4bobo3bo8bobo8b2o19bo25bo2bo19bo30bo
16b2obo9b2o3bobo7b2o23bob2o12bobo19b2o4bobo11bo6bobo27bobo8bo2bobobo
20bobo11bobo8bo30bo4b2o16bo5bobo14bo5bo$22b2o4b2o28b3o7b2o6b2o3b2o13b
2o50b2o18b2o3bob2o9b3o14bo12b2o6b2o5b2o28b2o35b2o4b2o10b3o5bo4b2o8bo
29b2o26b2o19b2o28b3o35b2o49bo20b2o4b2o10b3o7bo38b2o2b2o23b2o13bo8b2o
28b3o28b2o21b2o!

[WhiteHawk]

Well, I would expect a thread like this to appear approximately four days later, but otherwise it would be interesting to know the possibilities.

BTW, it isn't exactly a bug or error, it just doesn't care about population at all, so it may be better to move this thread to "General discussion" board instead.

Why 4 days?

Also you're probably right about which category this goes into, but I wasn't sure before posting and ended up choosing this one.

EDIT:

This is a legitimate topic. I actually would have waited a day if it happened to be April 1.

Wait - you're an admin now?

[hotdogPi]

This is a legitimate topic. I actually would have waited a day if it happened to be April 1.

[dvgrn]

My understanding is that changing Catagolue to allow tie-breaking by population would be nontrivial, and would involve changing existing tabulations rather than merely changing the source code.

I don't know why that would be the case offhand -- but it might well be true anyway. I would like to know more about the details of that "nontrivial" tabulation change requirement.

There's maybe some corroboration in this Discord discussion from 3/5:

Scorbie — 3/5/25, 3:15 AM CDT
@apgoucher since you're here now, I was going to ask how long catagolue's gun processing script is allowed to get? My fix for the bounding box glitch seems to run 8 times slower on average, and runs at a maximum time of 1 minute on some of the worst cases.

Not suggesting my solution, but knowing the time bounds would be helpful for weighing between the balance of correctness and speed.

Edit: for reference my modified script is https://github.com/scorbiclife/benchmar ... w_idgun.py
apgoucher — 3/5/25, 3:20 AM
Correctness is far more important than speed -- please do submit a PR!
(and 1 minute processing time is absolutely fine because that's not going to materially impact overall runtime unless people are doing mass automated uploads of glider guns)
Scorbie — 3/5/25, 3:21 AM
Thank you so much for the response!
Matthias Merzenich — 3/5/25, 3:24 AM
If at all possible, it would be nice if Catagolue would prefer guns with smaller population when in standard form. That is, if a gun is submitted with the same bounding box and strictly lower population than the current record-holder, then the lower-population solution will become the new record-holder.
This would allow us to fix nonsense like this:
https://catagolue.hatsya.com/object/guntrue_1999/b3s23
iNoMed — 3/5/25, 3:33 AM
I knew guntrue_660 had this same sort of still-life flood all over it, but that's just nasty
Scorbie — 3/5/25, 5:03 AM
I see this while reviewing the script and this feels like watching trash thrown in the sea
(edit: by "script" I meant my gun identification script, not lifeviewer)
...
Scorbie — 3/5/25, 5:38 AM
I read the relevant code and fixing this seems to cause a breaking change in the api, which might cause something else to break.
I tried to run catagolue locally to check it more thoroughly but failed 😦

So there was a recent attempt to get this fixed, and it hit some kind of glitch. But I'm not convinced that it's an insurmountable glitch. I think Scorbie's solution looks like a good one (and it can probably be extended to prefer lower populations). Scorbie just ran into some kind of trouble, trying to submit a workable pull request.

This problem is certainly fixable, one way or another! And I'd really love to see it get fixed at this point -- to the point where I think we can keep this thread in "Bugs and Errors", and have it be about Catagolue glider-gun validation in general.

The other bugs that Scorbie was trying to fix are definitely bugs, that cause the misidentification of gun bounding boxes, and sometimes invalid RLE being displayed for a validated gun.

[confocaloid]

My understanding is that changing Catagolue to allow tie-breaking by population would be nontrivial, and would involve changing existing tabulations rather than merely changing the source code.

I don't know why that would be the case offhand -- but it might well be true anyway. I would like to know more about the details of that "nontrivial" tabulation change requirement.

There's maybe some corroboration in this Discord discussion from 3/5: [...]

Currently, Catagolue stores glider gun "costs" (the bounding box area measured in cells), in the same format how it would otherwise store glider synthesis costs (the number of colliding gliders measured in gliders, up to some additional distinctions between strict objects and any other synthesis targets).

To be able to prefer lower population when the bounding box area is the same, one would need to store the population as well as the bounding box area, and as far as I can tell trying to store the population in the same tabulation would break compatibility with software that accesses the data and expects the existing format.

I cannot tell what would work in practice, that's up to people maintaining Catagolue. But it might work to create a new separate tabulation to store populations, without changing the existing "synthesis-costs/gun" and "synthesis-custs/guntrue" tabulations in any way.

Code: Select all

"apgcode","occurrences"
"guntrue_8861","18358"
"guntrue_4337","18088"
"guntrue_9241","18088"
"guntrue_9281","17835"
"guntrue_9137","17820"
"guntrue_9209","17820"
"guntrue_9257","17760"
"guntrue_4297","17685"
"guntrue_4273","17554"
"guntrue_9049","17554"
"guntrue_3347","17550"
"guntrue_4289","17550"
"guntrue_2557","17544"
"guntrue_5953","17292"
"guntrue_2731","17290"
"guntrue_3331","17290"
"guntrue_4241","17290"
"guntrue_8969","17290"
"guntrue_9041","17290"
"guntrue_3323","17286"
"guntrue_2549","17280"
"guntrue_9001","17228"
"guntrue_9161","17228"
"guntrue_4217","17160"
"guntrue_3191","17112"
"guntrue_5897","17030"
"guntrue_2707","17028"
"guntrue_3307","17028"
"guntrue_8741","17028"
"guntrue_3299","17024"

[...]

[dvgrn]

To be able to prefer lower population when the bounding box area is the same, one would need to store the population along with the bounding box area, and as far as I can tell trying to store the population in the same tabulation would break compatibility with software that accesses the data and expects the existing format.

Heh, just to mis-use the "occurrences" structure even a little more -- I wonder if we could get away with storing floating-point numbers in that tabulation instead of integers?

A cost of

{bounding box area} {decimal point} {population padded with leading zeroes up to maximum digits possible for that bounding box area}

would still sort perfectly well, but would allow comparisons and replacements when the bounding box stayed the same and the population went down.

I guess the population would be the population of the specific canonical phase of the gun -- or the smallest population among the possible canonical phases, in the case of pseudo-period guns. (?)

[confocaloid]

As far as I can tell, any such changes would break compatibility with software that fetches the tabulation and expects to get integer numbers with the specific meaning "this integer number is the bounding box area of this glider gun". Even if you keep it an integer number but change what it means, it would break compatibility.

[dvgrn]

As far as I can tell, any such changes would break compatibility with software that fetches the tabulation and expects to get integer numbers...

Do you know of any such software, where any significant problem would be caused?

I maintain scripts that do tasks like that, and the time needed to fix an integer vs. float issue would be measured in seconds, not in minutes. I'd be very happy to make fixes along those lines, in exchange for getting a Catagolue tabulation of glider guns that is much less broken than the current instantiation.

I would guess that everyone who maintains similar software would be equally happy to see the system improved, and would find it equally easy to patch up their code as needed.

I'm reasonably confident about that, partly because I don't think there are very many such people, and I think I probably know who most of them are.

[confocaloid]

If it were up to me to decide, I would keep the existing tabulations completely unchanged (same format and same meaning). Instead of modifying something that was already provided, extend to add new functionality in a backward-compatible way.

I think it is better to avoid any floating-point calculations, and continue to use integer numbers whenever possible. Synthesis costs are integers, bounding box area is an integer number, population is an integer number.

As far as I can tell, any such changes would break compatibility with software that fetches the tabulation and expects to get integer numbers...

Do you know of any such software, where any significant problem would be caused?
[...]

[Scorbie]

I'll share the current state of things regarding catagolue gun validation issues.

1. Gun "bounding box glitch"

The other bugs that Scorbie was trying to fix are definitely bugs, that cause the misidentification of gun bounding boxes, and sometimes invalid RLE being displayed for a validated gun.

This is the issue I'm talking about.

I think Scorbie's solution looks like a good one (and it can probably be extended to prefer lower populations).

Thanks. You're right. t̶h̶e̶ ̶s̶o̶l̶u̶t̶i̶o̶n̶ ̶i̶s̶ ̶g̶o̶o̶d̶ The gun identification script itself can be extended to prefer lower populations. More on that later.

Currently the Pull Request (or "Merge Request" in GitLab) is submitted, but isn't merged: https://gitlab.com/hatsya/open-source/c ... equests/89
I was assuming calcyman (= apgoucher = the maintainer of that repo) was too busy to merge it.


2. Changing the gun validation script to prefer lower population guns

My understanding is that changing Catagolue to allow tie-breaking by population would be nontrivial, and would involve changing existing tabulations rather than merely changing the source code.

I don't know why that would be the case offhand -- but it might well be true anyway. I would like to know more about the details of that "nontrivial" tabulation change requirement.

There's maybe some corroboration in this Discord discussion from 3/5:

...
Scorbie — 3/5/25, 5:38 AM
I read the relevant code and fixing this seems to cause a breaking change in the api, which might cause something else to break.
I tried to run catagolue locally to check it more thoroughly but failed 😦

So there was a recent attempt to get this fixed, and it hit some kind of glitch. But I'm not convinced that it's an insurmountable glitch.

There are two separate issues that prevent this getting fixed.

One issue is what confocaloid described in this topic.

Currently, Catagolue stores glider gun "costs" (the bounding box area measured in cells), in the same format how it would otherwise store glider synthesis costs (the number of colliding gliders measured in gliders, up to some additional distinctions between strict objects and any other synthesis targets).

To be able to prefer lower population when the bounding box area is the same, one would need to store the population as well as the bounding box area, and as far as I can tell trying to store the population in the same tabulation would break compatibility with software that accesses the data and expects the existing format.

I'll link to the code that consumes the tabulations for reference. The highlighted part is the code path that gets run when the submitted object is a gun:
https://gitlab.com/hatsya/open-source/c ... ads#L77-93

I was wary of changing the code because it's a breaking change in the api - I was unsure if there are other parts of the codebase consuming the same api - and also because I couldn't just apply the change and risk breaking catagolue. (Count the number of iterations you needed to write a working golly python script and multiply that to the hypothetical number of times Catagolue breaks. You'll see what I mean.)

This leads to our second issue. I couldn't build catagolue locally to test whether there are any breaking changes.
I can try building it again and share the errors.

[confocaloid]

It would be only necessary to consider population in those cases when the bounding box area happens to be the same.

Maybe it could work to check whether the new bounding box area equals the old bounding box area, and only in that case [attempt to] fetch the RLE from the page containing the actual gun, example link:
https://catagolue.hatsya.com/textsample ... /synthesis
In this case, the content is (currently) as follows:

Code: Select all

#CSYNTH guntrue_18 costs 4000 cells.
#C period 18 fullperiod 18 bbox 80 by 50
#CLL state-numbering golly
x = 80, y = 50, rule = LifeHistory
35.A4.2A$34.A.A3.A19.2A$34.A.3A.A6.A.A10.A3.2A$35.A3.A7.2A.A10.A2.
A$37.A12.A3.2A4.2A3.A$36.3A6.4A.A.3A.A2.A2.4A$33.2B4.AB3.A4.A.A4.A
3.A.A$33.B3AB3A2.B.2A2BA.B2ABA.4A.A.4A$31.B2A3.A4B2A.A.3A2B2A.A.B
3.3BA2.A$30.A.B3A2BA3B2AB2A2B.A.BAB2A2B2A3B$30.5A.A.A.B5.A.2A.2A.A
2.BA.A.B$7.A27.2A.A.7A2.A.A2.3A3.A.A$6.A.A16.2A3.4A.BA.2A7.2A3.2A
3.4A.3A$5.A2.A15.A2.A.A.A4B5.5A8.A.A4.A3.A$.2A2.A.A.2A.2A2.2A6.A.
2A.A.B2A3B4A2.A2.2A.A4.A.A2.A.A2.2A$.A.A.A.A2.A.2A2.2A4.3A.A2.A.B.
B.A.A2.A5.A.2A5.A3.2A$3.A.A.A2.A10.A6.2A.3ABA$2.A.A2.3AB.8A2.6A2.
2A2.2BA$.A2.A.A3.A.A2.B.B2.2A2.B3.A2BA3BAB4.A$2.2A.A.A2B2A2B2A2BAB
2.AB2ABAB.B.A2BA3.3A9.2A2.2A$3.A.A.A.BA3BA4BAB2ABA.A2BAB.BA2B2.A
12.A.A2.A$3.3A.A.3ABABA2B.AB2.BA2B4A.3B2.ABA8.2A.A2.2A3.A$.2A.AB.
2A.B2A3.A7.A.6B2A.3A.A7.A2.A.2A2.6A$A2.A2.BABA.B.3A3.A2.A.2A4.3BAB
4A8.2A.A.B.BA6.A$.2A7.2A.A2.7A.A6.B2A4B8.3B.A2B2AB3ABA2.A$11.A2.A.
A7.A.A3.2ABA.4B6.2A3BABAB2.A.A.2A.A$11.A.2A.A.B4A2.A.A.A.4AB.AB3.B
4A4B6A.A3.A$10.2A2.A.A.AB3.2A2.A.A.2BA3B2A3.2ABAB.A.ABAB3.A.A.A$
12.A4.A.2B2A2.2A2.7AB2A.3B2A2B2A.A.2AB2A2.2A$12.2A4.2A.3AB2.2A3.A
5B.4B2AB2.A.A.A3.A.A$10.2A2.A4.B.A.B.2A2.3A3B.2B4A5BA2.A2.3A2.A$
11.A.A2.3A2.2A2B.A.A2.A.3B.A.B.3BA.A3.A4.A.A$11.A.B2AB.3A3.B.A.2A.
2A4BABA2BA.A.A.A.2A4.A6.A$10.2A.A2.2B3.5ABA3.AB3A2B2.A.A.A.2A.A2.A
9.A.A7.2A$9.A3.3A2.2A.B2.B4.2A.4A.3A2.2A.A3.A.A.A7.A.A.A5.A2.A3.2A
$10.3A3.A2.2A2B6A.A.3B3A2.2A3.A3.A2.A.A6.A3.A5.A.A.A2.A$12.A.A.2A
3.3B.B4.A.A2B.BA.A2.3A3.2A4.A4.2A.3A5.2A.A2.A.A$14.2A2.3A.4A.2AB2A
.2AB2AB.A6.A6.2A2.A.A.A5.2B2.2BABA.2A$10.4A3.A2.8A.A3B2A2B2A.A.3A
2.A7.B.ABA2B6.B5A2.B2.A$9.A4.2A.A3.6B2.3BA6B.A.A2.A.2A6.B4AB.2B.2B
2AB.A2B2A.2A$9.5A2.A4.6B3.A2BAB.B2ABA.AB2A.A.B.3B2A.2B.2BA3B2A.BA
4.A.A$7.2A2.3B.A5.4B5.AB4AB.4BABA.B2AB3AB.AB2ABA.A.A2.B.A5.A.A$6.A
2.ABABA.2A3.7B3.3B.2AB2AB5A3BABA2BA.A2.B.A.A.4A.A.A4.A$6.2A.A.ABAB
.A13B2A5.2BA4B2ABA2.A.2A.A.2A.A2.A4.A.2A$9.A2.A.2A8B2A5BAB5.5B.2AB
3.A.B.A.A2.2A3.3A.A$9.2A.A.B.A6BABA5BA2B6.B3.3B4.2A.A2.A8.A.A$11.A
.A.2A3.3BABA4BA4B18.A.2A10.A$11.A.A.A4.3B2A5B2.3BA17.A$12.A4.A3.6B
6.3BA15.2A$16.2A4.3B9.3AB!

Then recompute the population of the existing gun and do the population comparison, without having populations precomputed and stored in any tabulation.

That would mean extra requests and extra processing. If the same gun is submitted several times, or if a gun was the last thing that was submitted and it remains in the readsynth queue over many updates (until someone submits something else) and would be repeatedly processed on every update. The request might fail.

Does the above make any sense?

[Scorbie]

Does the above make any sense?

It makes sense to me. I think it's a good option when we cannot afford a breaking change.

At the end of the day, however, I think it's up to calcyman to decide. This topic could serve as the possible options to explore.

[WhiteHawk]

Some newly recognized Guns which have pointless densification submissions that need to be fixed.

(EDIT: I have already posted about Guntrue_9760 and Guntrue_1728)

[hotdogPi]

This is DroneBetter

https://web.archive.org/web/20250408004 ... 8797/b3s23

[dvgrn]

This is DroneBetter

https://catagolue.hatsya.com/object/gun_8797/b3s23

To be clear, DroneBetter has plausibly denied uploading the previous "moderately densified" guns -- and mentioned that it was in some sense my fault that a maximally pointlessly densified gun became what Bill Gosper has called an "insurmountable opportunity":

DroneBetter — 1:02 PM CST
OOH i have just realised
@dvgrn you were talking about the silly guns uploaded to Catagolue that contained many still lifes scattered around the bounding box in a form of protest against the use of bounding boxes instead of a better metric like convex hulls 🌝 and mentioned that they are not packed as efficiently as possible 🌝 however now they can be 🌝
...
Scorbie — 2:59 PM CST
Wait is it Drone? I don't think that post implied Drone doing that
DroneBetter — 3:09 PM CST
it is not however i may or may not have been beginning to formulate evil conniving plans...

The new gun appears to have been the result of some bold and incautious experimentation with Google OR-Tools, the "operations research optimization" package that jeremydover recently introduced the community to, that has been winning gold medals in the MiniZinc Challenge since 2013. (OR-Tools first showed up in 2011.)

OR Tools is an operations research optimization package, and one its key components is CP-SAT, a constraint programming interface to a SAT solver.

[confocaloid]

Linking related discussion: viewtopic.php?p=209508#p209508

[...] This topic could serve as the possible options to explore.

[Scorbie]

you were talking about the silly guns uploaded to Catagolue that contained many still lifes scattered around the bounding box in a form of protest against the use of bounding boxes instead of a better metric like convex hulls

To be extra clear, convex hulls are DroneBetter's interpretation.

dvgrn — 3/12/25, 12:26 AM (GMT +9)
-- Hmm, interesting. Somebody is running a Pointless Densification campaign for glider guns -- i.e., getting guns into Catagolue's queue before anyone else does, with ugly litter inside the bounding box. Not even very good ugly litter, it could be packed a lot tighter:
viewtopic.php?p=206566#p206566
https://catagolue.hatsya.com/object/guntrue_9760/b3s23

Maybe the simplest way to make this silliness stop, would be to adjust the validation code to accept new record-breaking guns with the same bounding box and lower population?
DroneBetter — 3/12/25, 1:08 AM (GMT +9)
I personally interpret it as an act of protest against the use of bounding rectangles as opposed to convex hulls
although it would be extremely cool if this were how a secret society encoded their messages to each other
dvgrn — 3/12/25, 2:56 AM (GMT +9)
It might be a protest against using only bounding boxes and not caring about population. If the protest involved convex hulls, it would be a more coherent protest if the ugly litter were only packed into the corners of the bounding boxes -- but there's useless trash being added in the centers of the guns too.

[confocaloid]

[...]
dvgrn — 3/12/25, 2:56 AM (GMT +9)
It might be a protest against using only bounding boxes and not caring about population. If the protest involved convex hulls, it would be a more coherent protest if the ugly litter were only packed into the corners of the bounding boxes -- but there's useless trash being added in the centers of the guns too.

Tangentially related (press Help/Comments or <H>/<C> in LifeViewer):

Code: Select all

#C ...Beneath the discrete smooth surface of CGoL, there are powerful and dangerous
#C undercurrents of LFoD,  a whole parallel universe that is all too easy to forget
#C about,  exremely rarely interacting  with our ordinary life  to which we are all
#C accustomed.  Interactions do happen though,  when a note of discord  creeps into
#C relations between two universes;  and this is something to be kept in mind if we
#C dare to hope - if we hope to save  this  immeasurably fragile  partially ordered
#C finite world in the seamless sea of eternal chaos... and there is nothing to be
#C discovered there once you cross the line - not even nothing - not even seeds for
#C nothing - remember: it's nothing but chaos in the room of Finis Africae.
x = 67, y = 67, rule = B2/S0History
67F$F65.F$F65.F$F65.F$F65.F$F65.F$F65.F$F65.F$F11.7F29.7F11.F$F10.F.F
5.F27.F5.F.F10.F$F9.F2.F6.F25.F6.F2.F9.F$F8.F4.F4.F.F23.F.F4.F4.F8.F$
F7.F5.F3.F3.F21.F3.F3.F5.F7.F$F7.3F4.3F5.F19.F5.3F4.3F7.F$F7.F2.2F.F
3.F.3F.F.15F.F.3F.F3.F.2F2.F7.F$F7.F4.F5.F5.F7.F7.F5.F5.F4.F7.F$F7.F
4.F5.F5.F15.F5.F5.F4.F7.F$F7.F4.F4.F7.F6.F6.F7.F4.F4.F7.F$F7.F3.F.F2.
2F7.F13.F7.2F2.F.F3.F7.F$F8.F.F3.2F2.F6.4F.F.F.F.4F6.F2.2F3.F.F8.F$F
9.F3.F5.F4.F.F11.F.F4.F5.F3.F9.F$F10.F2.F6.F2.F3.F4.F4.F3.F2.F6.F2.F
10.F$F11.F.F7.2F4.F9.F4.2F7.F.F11.F$F12.F8.2F5.F3.F3.F5.2F8.F12.F$F
13.F6.F2.F4.F7.F4.F2.F6.F13.F$F14.2F3.F4.F4.F2.F2.F4.F4.F3.2F14.F$F
13.F2.3F6.F3.F5.F3.F6.3F2.F13.F$F13.F4.2F6.F3.5F3.F6.2F4.F13.F$F13.F
4.F.2F5.F.F5.F.F5.2F.F4.F13.F$F13.F4.F3.2F4.F7.F4.2F3.F4.F13.F$F13.F
10.2F.F9.F.2F10.F13.F$F13.F4.F7.F11.F7.F4.F13.F$F13.F12.F11.F12.F13.F
$F13.2F.F.F.F.F.F.F11.F.F.F.F.F.F.2F13.F$F13.F12.F11.F12.F13.F$F13.F
4.F7.F11.F7.F4.F13.F$F13.F10.2F.F9.F.2F10.F13.F$F13.F4.F3.2F4.F7.F4.
2F3.F4.F13.F$F13.F4.F.2F5.F.F5.F.F5.2F.F4.F13.F$F13.F4.2F6.F3.5F3.F6.
2F4.F13.F$F13.F2.3F6.F3.F5.F3.F6.3F2.F13.F$F14.2F3.F4.F4.F2.F2.F4.F4.
F3.2F14.F$F13.F6.F2.F4.F7.F4.F2.F6.F13.F$F12.F8.2F5.F3.F3.F5.2F8.F12.
F$F11.F.F7.2F4.F9.F4.2F7.F.F11.F$F10.F2.F6.F2.F3.F4.F4.F3.F2.F6.F2.F
10.F$F9.F3.F5.F4.F.F11.F.F4.F5.F3.F9.F$F8.F.F3.2F2.F6.4F.F.F.F.4F6.F
2.2F3.F.F8.F$F7.F3.F.F2.2F7.F13.F7.2F2.F.F3.F7.F$F7.F4.F4.F7.F6.F6.F
7.F4.F4.F7.F$F7.F4.F5.F5.F15.F5.F5.F4.F7.F$F7.F4.F5.F5.F7.F7.F5.F5.F
4.F7.F$F7.F2.2F.F3.F.3F.F.15F.F.3F.F3.F.2F2.F7.F$F7.3F4.3F5.F19.F5.3F
4.3F7.F$F7.F5.F3.F3.F21.F3.F3.F5.F7.F$F8.F4.F4.F.F23.F.F4.F4.F8.F$F9.
F2.F6.F25.F6.F2.F9.F$F10.F.F5.F5.2A20.F5.F.F10.F$F11.7F5.2A22.7F11.F$
F24.A40.F$F65.F$F65.F$F65.F$F65.F$F65.F$F65.F$67F!

[Scorbie]

I can't seem to find the time to implement the fix, so I'll share my dialogue with calcyman. Basically calcyman suggested confocaloid's solution of not touching the backend and just comparing the population when a new gun is submitted.

[WhiteHawk]

Just found guntrue_152 has pointless densification

EDIT:

Still is painful to look at.

Old junky gun:

Code: Select all

Has anything been done in Catagolue to deal with overly densified guns?

[WhiteHawk]

Doublepost just for a suggestion

The following rules for submitting syntheses are currently as follows:

"
Submitting your own syntheses
The following box accepts synthesis RLEs conforming to the following requirements:

• The RLE must be two-state (plain B3/S23);
• Pattern cannot exceed 9999x9999, 100000 live cells, or 400 kB;
• Distinct components in the pattern must be separated by at least 20 blank columns or rows;
• Every glider in a component must have started interacting before time 1000, and finished interacting before time 4000.
• Any number of syntheses may be included in the same pattern.

"

Perhaps there could be an addendum, something along the lines of "for gun and guntrue submissions, bounding boxes must only be filled with a bare minimum of non-interacting still-lifes (with no non-essential oscillators)" or some other means of putting it out there that pointless SL densification is not allowed.

Perhaps related to this, the guntrue synthesis database (and probably gun itself to a lesser extent) overall needs some pretty significant data rebuild as well from the days of the Bounding Box computational glitch (which apparently didn't get updated at the time that was corrected - but as they say, the best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago, the second best time is now)

[WhiteHawk]

Do you have stats on guns/guntrues which are in catagolue in erroneous forms? (e.g. incorrectly calculated envelope from the BB glitch era, pointless densification, etc. - perhaps also including "wrong" chucklebait or similar unnecessarily large sl supports)

Here is a basic scraper script which can download gun/guntrues and analyse them:

Code: Select all

import lifelib
import requests
print('Setting up lifetree...')
sess = lifelib.load_rules('b3s23history')
lt = sess.lifetree(n_layers=6, memory = 1000)
erroneous = []
dense = []
def analysegun(period, true):
    if true:
        print('Downloading guntrue_'+str(period))
        c = requests.get('https://catagolue.hatsya.com/textsamples/guntrue_'+str(period)+'/b3s23/synthesis')

    else:
        print('Downloading gun_'+str(period))
        c = requests.get('https://catagolue.hatsya.com/textsamples/gun_'+str(period)+'/b3s23/synthesis')
    response = c.text
    if response.count('null') == 0:
        gun = lt.pattern(response)
        boundingbox = gun.bounding_box
        claimedarea = int(response[response.index('costs'):response.index('cells')].replace('costs', '').replace(' ', ''))
        actualarea = boundingbox[2] * boundingbox[3]
        if claimedarea != actualarea:
            erroneous.append(period)
        print('Claimed area: '+str(claimedarea))
        print('Actual area: '+str(actualarea))
        gun = gun.replace('B!', '!')
        print('Gun population: '+str(gun.population))
        density = gun.population / actualarea
        print('Density: '+str(density))
        if density > 0.2:
            dense.append(period)




for x in range(1000):
    analysegun(14+x, True)
print('Erroneous bounding boxes:')
print(erroneous)
print('Over-densified periods:')
print(dense)

It checks for two things: whether the bounding box is correct, and how dense the gun is (after removing state-2 LifeHistory cells). Checking density > 0.2 leads to some false positives, and will miss some, but running for all guntrue periods up to 1013 revealed that guntrue_660 is over-densified:

Code: Select all

#CSYNTH guntrue_660 costs 1886 cells.
#C period 660 fullperiod 660 bbox 46 by 41
#CLL state-numbering golly
x = 46, y = 41, rule = LifeHistory
2A.2A.A4.2A10.A7.2A7.A3.2A$2A.A.4A.A.A9.A.A2.2A.A.A5.3A3.2A$9.2A5.
2A4.A.A2.2A.A6.A$7.A4.A2.A.3A3.A6.BAB4.2A5.2A$.A4.A.8A4.A6.3ABA3B.
3B4.A.A$A.A3.A9.ABA.A6.A.BAB.2B2A6.2A$.A2.2A.8ABA2B.2AB5.B6A2BA$5.
A.A2.B2.B.B2.2A2.AB5.B4A3BA$3.ABA.2A.2B3AB2.2B3AB7.2B3.A$2.B2AB2A
2.B3A4B.3BA2B4.3B8.A.A$3.2A.2A4.B2.B3A3BA3B.4B9.2A.A$14.BA.BA3BA9B
11.A$15.2A.A2.BAB.8B5.5A.2A$.A14.A.A.2A3.8B4.AB3.A.A$A.A13.A.A.A5.
8B3.A2B2AB.A$.A3.A5.B2A3.A2.A6.4B2A2B3.3BA2.2A$4.A.A4.3AB3.2A5.5B
5A3.A2B.2A$.A3.A4.A.2AB9.5BA3B2A3B2.2A.A$A.A6.A.A.2B8.7B2A2BA3B3.A
.A.A$.A7.A2.A2.2B5.9B3A3B4.A2.2A$10.2A3.3B3.4B2.5B3AB4.2A$4.2A9.3B
.5B5.5BA$3.A.A8.9B4.5B12.B$3.A8.B.8B5.2A7.B6.3A$2A.AB.B3.11B7.A6.
3A6.B$.A.A.2AB.12B4.3A8.B4.B$.A.A.2A14B4.A14.3A$2A.A2.5B2A8B12.2A
6.B$A2.4A3BA2BA5B.B2A8.A4BA7.B$.2A2.BAB.2B2A6B.BA.A5.BA6BAB4.3A$3.
2A6.7B5.A3.2BA8BA2B3.B$3.A7.2B.4B5.2A.3BA8BA3B$.2A2.A.A7.4B8.2BA8B
A2B$A2.3A.3A6.4B9.BA6BAB$.2A3.A3.A6.4B10.A4BA5.A$2.A2.A2.A2.A.2A3.
4B11.2A6.BAB$A4.A.2A.2A.A5.4B7.3B2.3B4.A$6A.A2.A2.A2.A3.4B4.2B2AB
2AB2A2B$7.A2.A2.A.A.A3.3BAB.3B2A4B2A3B$2A2.A.A4.2A2.A.A4.3BA4B2AB
2AB2A2B4.2A$2A2.2A9.2A6.3A3B.2B4.2B6.2A!

I probably won't run the script for all gun and guntrue periods up to 10000, but someone else can do so if they are interested.

Goodness me, that looks horrible! (the gun, not the code, which is great)

Also reposting here since this topic is appropriate for this thread.

[WhiteHawk]

Just wanting to restart discussion on this topic, as well as noting that catagolue is stuck on uploaded guns again.