KittyTac wrote: January 4th, 2025, 10:32 am
Maybe also mention that new still-lives or p2 oscillators etc are not considered notable unless they do something unusual.
I'm interested in good ways to formulate more directly what it means in this case to "do something unusual".
For example, I do understand that catalysts count (although how about useless variants of catalysts, like an eater 1 with a giant blob welded to it?)
What should be mentioned to explain the "do something unusual" part?
I'm not sure it can be formulated in a rigorous way. "Has an unique and useful reaction associated with it" (so the eater 1 with a blob wouldn't count because the actual reacting part is the same as the eater 1).
Defining "useful" is harder but I think common sense can manage.
127:1 B3/S234cUser:Confocal/R (isotropic CA, incomplete)
Unlikely events happen.
My silence does not imply agreement, nor indifference. If I disagreed with something in the past, then please do not construe my silence as something that could change that.
There was a discussion on the discord about still lifes that contained all SL-compatible n by m grids. The 2x2 case, where all elements are compatible, was provided (i backed myself into a grammar hole here, oops) with this solution (not by me):
x = 9, y = 4, rule = B3/S23
2ob2ob2o$bob2obobo$bo4bobo$2o4b2o!
(18 bits. A smaller solution may exist.)
While this isn’t that interesting on its own, if a search/sat solver was used to find a similar still life for all 3x3 (4x4?!?!?) grids it might warrant a page, a rarity for high-pop still lives, of which the majority that have pages (EDIT) have no fathers besides themselfs.
Last edited by LuveelVoom on January 8th, 2025, 12:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
A good way to define this might be is, what property does the still-life have to distinguish it from other still-lives? It can be a reaction from an engineering perspective or some quality of it from a mathematical perspective.
Thanks.
I wouldn't consider an agar a still life though. Has anyone searched for N pseudo still lifes N>4? Obviously minimality is very hard beyond 4, but surely examples exist.
LuveelVoom wrote: January 7th, 2025, 11:51 pm
There was a discussion on the discord about still lifes that contained all SL-compatible n by m grids. The 2x2 case, where all elements are compatible, was provided (i backed myself into a grammar hole here, oops) with this solution (not by me):
x = 9, y = 4, rule = B3/S23
2ob2ob2o$bob2obobo$bo4bobo$2o4b2o!
(18 bits. A smaller solution may exist.)
While this isn’t that interesting on its own, if a search/sat solver was used to find a similar still life for all 3x3 (4x4?!?!?) grids it might warrant a page, a rarity for high-pop still lives, of which the majority that have pages (EDIT) have no fathers besides themselfs.
x = 67, y = 18, rule = LifeHistory
7.2D14.2D11.2D$2A3.2ADCA4.2A3.2A.ACD3.2A3.2A.2C4.2A3.2A.2A4.2A3.2ADCA
$A.A.A.A.2A4.A.A.A.A.2A4.A.A.A.A.2A4.A.A.A.ADCA4.A.A.A.ADCA$.2A.2A9.2A
.2A9.2A.2A9.2A.2A.2D6.2A.2A5$2A3.2A.2A4.2A3.2A.2A4.2A3.2A.2A4.2A3.2A.
2A4.2A3.2A.ACD$A.A.ADC.2A4.ADC.A.A.2A4.A.A.A.A.ACD3.CDA.A.A.2A4.A.A.A
.A.ACD$.2A.ACD8.2C.2A9.2A.2A3.2D3.DCA.2A9.2A.2A5$2A3.2A.2A4.2A3.2A.2A
4.2A3.2C.2A4.2C3.2A.2A4.2A3.2A.2C$A.A.CDA.2A4.A.A.A.A.2C4.A.A.ADC.2A4.
CDA.A.A.2A4.A.A.A.A.2C$.2A.2C9.2A.2A2.2D5.2A.2A9.2A.2A9.2A.2A!
I was aware of this, but discarded it (because, as you say, it's not strict.)
I guess the 18 bit solution isn't really strict either? Is there a <20 bit solution where no disconnected part can be removed without the still life failing?
Last edited by dvgrn on January 27th, 2025, 7:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason:H. H. P. M. P. Cole username revert
LuveelVoom wrote: January 8th, 2025, 1:06 amIs there a <20 bit solution where no disconnected part can be removed without the still life failing?
no. the block must always be its own island, as adding anything to the edge of it will cause at least one of the cells in the block to die of overpopulation.
LuveelVoom wrote: January 8th, 2025, 1:06 amIs there a <20 bit solution where no disconnected part can be removed without the still life failing?
no. the block must always be its own island, as adding anything to the edge of it will cause at least one of the cells in the block to die of overpopulation.
By itself, that logic does not appear to be sufficient for proving impossibiity of a solution below 20 bits.
If I understand correctly, the following is a 20-bit solution (every 2-by-2 configuration of alive and dead cells appears somewhere; and no single island can be removed while keeping the remainder a still life, although it is possible to remove two or three islands at once):
x = 5, y = 7, rule = B3/S23
2o$o$bo$2o$bob2o$o2b2o$2o!
The larger island can be removed while keeping the remainder (i.e. the block) a still life. Hence IIUC this one doesn't count as a solution to the above puzzle (despite being a strict still life).
Last edited by confocaloid on January 8th, 2025, 4:58 pm, edited 2 times in total.
127:1 B3/S234cUser:Confocal/R (isotropic CA, incomplete)
Unlikely events happen.
My silence does not imply agreement, nor indifference. If I disagreed with something in the past, then please do not construe my silence as something that could change that.
x = 5, y = 7, rule = B3/S23
2o$o$bo$2o$bob2o$o2b2o$2o!
The larger island can be removed while keeping the remainder (i.e. the block) a still life. Hence IIUC this one doesn't count as a solution to the above puzzle (despite being a strict still life).
i think hotdogPi was referring the original puzzle without the constraint of not being able to contain an induction coil:
LuveelVoom wrote: January 7th, 2025, 11:51 pm
There was a discussion on the discord about still lifes that contained all SL-compatible n by m grids. The 2x2 case, where all elements are compatible,
get_Snacked wrote: January 9th, 2025, 1:04 am
i think hotdogPi was referring the original puzzle without the constraint of not being able to contain an induction coil:
I don't understand what you mean by "the constraint of not being able to contain an induction coil". Can you explain?
127:1 B3/S234cUser:Confocal/R (isotropic CA, incomplete)
Unlikely events happen.
My silence does not imply agreement, nor indifference. If I disagreed with something in the past, then please do not construe my silence as something that could change that.
I was answering the original question: minimum number of cells.
LuveelVoom wrote: January 7th, 2025, 11:51 pm
There was a discussion on the discord about still lifes that contained all SL-compatible n by m grids. The 2x2 case, where all elements are compatible, was provided (i backed myself into a grammar hole here, oops) with this solution (not by me):
x = 9, y = 4, rule = B3/S23
2ob2ob2o$bob2obobo$bo4bobo$2o4b2o!
(18 bits. A smaller solution may exist.)
While this isn’t that interesting on its own, if a search/sat solver was used to find a similar still life for all 3x3 (4x4?!?!?) grids it might warrant a page, a rarity for high-pop still lives, of which the majority that have pages (EDIT) have no fathers besides themselfs.
LuveelVoom wrote: January 7th, 2025, 11:51 pm
There was a discussion on the discord about still lifes that contained all SL-compatible n by m grids. The 2x2 case, where all elements are compatible, was provided (i backed myself into a grammar hole here, oops) with this solution (not by me):
x = 9, y = 4, rule = B3/S23
2ob2ob2o$bob2obobo$bo4bobo$2o4b2o!
(18 bits. A smaller solution may exist.)
While this isn’t that interesting on its own, if a search/sat solver was used to find a similar still life for all 3x3 (4x4?!?!?) grids it might warrant a page, a rarity for high-pop still lives, of which the majority that have pages (EDIT) have no fathers besides themselfs.
I'd like to bring this question up again as I feel like this could be solved quickly with a couple dozen lines of python code and would be an interesting object.