B35/S23

[confocaloid]

The Catagolue object pages of those two ships are here and here.
Unfortunately I cannot find specific ikpx2_stdin hauls in this list where the spaceships occurred; it is possible that the hauls were discarded to save space.

[Lewis]

One of the variants of that 27-cell c/4 was found by user praosylen in 2016 : viewtopic.php?f=11&t=757&start=25#p38374 (4th one down)

[confocaloid]

Is it you?

No it is not me. And FYI you shouldn't request personal information about other people, unless they choose to provide that information themselves.

[Haycat2009]

Recently I saw a 5316M in Grounded Life, what is it?
Also can you provide me a list of the longest-lived diehards and methetsulae?

[MEisSCAMMER]

Convertors:

Code: Select all

x = 0, y = 0, rule = B35/S23
36b2o$35bo2bo$35bo2bo46b2o$36b2o47bobo$86b2o$36b2o$36b2o48b2o$86b2o$36b
2o$36b2o48b2o$86b2o$36b2o$36b2o48b2o$86b2o$36b2o$36b2o48b2o$86b2o$36b
2o$36b2o48b2o$86b2o$36b2o$36b2o48b2o$86b2o$36b2o$36b2o48b2o$86b2o$36b
2o$36b2o48b2o$86b2o$36b2o$36b2o48b2o$86b2o$36b2o$36b2o48b2o$86b2o$36b
2o$36b2o48b2o$86b2o$36b2o$36b2o48b2o$86b2o$36b2o$36b2o48b2o$86b2o$36b
2o$36b2o48b2o$86b2o$36b2o$36b2o48b2o$86b2o$36b2o$36b2o48b2o$86b2o$36b
2o$36b2o48b2o$86b2o$36b2o$36b2o48b2o$86b2o$36b2o$37bo$34bo49b2o$34b2o
48b2o2$34b2o$2b3ob2ob2ob2ob2ob2ob2ob2ob2ob2obobo17b3ob2ob2ob2ob2ob2ob
2ob2ob2ob2ob2o5b2o$ob3ob2ob2ob2ob2ob2ob2ob2ob2ob2ob2o18b3ob2ob2ob2ob2o
b2ob2ob2ob2ob2obobo3bobo$o84b2o3b2o$o!

[Haycat2009]

Recently I saw a 5316M in Grounded Life, what is it?
Also can you provide me a list of the longest-lived diehards and methetsulae?

Bump. Can someone please answer this question?

[LaundryPizza03]

Recently I saw a 5316M in Grounded Life, what is it?
Also can you provide me a list of the longest-lived diehards and methetsulae?

Bump. Can someone please answer this question?

It is impossible to answer your question in reasonable time. What did the object look like?

[Haycat2009]

Recently I saw a 5316M in Grounded Life, what is it?
Also can you provide me a list of the longest-lived diehards and methetsulae?

Bump. Can someone please answer this question?

It is impossible to answer your question in reasonable time. What did the object look like?

I found it on Nathaniel’s Online CA search (Not apgsearch!) and it mentioned one with 5200-5300 lifespan.

[LaundryPizza03]

Bump. Can someone please answer this question?

It is impossible to answer your question in reasonable time. What did the object look like?

I found it on Nathaniel’s Online CA search (Not apgsearch!) and it mentioned one with 5200-5300 lifespan.

I've never heard of it and can't find anything about it.

[Lewis]

Recently I saw a 5316M in Grounded Life, what is it?
Also can you provide me a list of the longest-lived diehards and methetsulae?

There was a soup listed as having a lifespan of 5250 on the old soup search site, clicking the 'RLE' link for it leads to nowhere but the URL itself has the soup's RLE embedded in it. Sadly, on running the soup it just produces a puffer and a p4 oscillator which I assume must have confused the census program?

Code: Select all

x = 20, y = 20, rule = B35/S23
2bo2bo2b2o4bo2b2o$3bo3bo2b2o3bo3bo$3bobo5bobobo$o2b3ob3obo3b2o$bo2bo2b
2o2b3o$5bo$3b4obo2b3o4bo$b2o2b2o5b2o2b2obo$3o4bob4o2bo$o4bo2bob2obob2o
bo$8b2ob2o3bob2o$5b4o3bo$3o3bo4bo2b6o$2bo3bob2o2b2o2b3o$4ob2o2b2obo3b
4o$2b2o3bobo5bo2b2o$bo3bobo6bo2bobo$10b2obobo2b2o$4bo2b5o6b2o$b3ob3obo
8bo!

[amling]

Are there any spaceships that work in both B35/S23 and B3/S23?

With a moderately weird setup LLSSS can search for ships that are shared* between the two rules. With further weirdness it can search for arbitrary width ships. When such a search terminates with no results it shows, barring bugs, that there are no (finite) ships at all. This was easily and quickly the case for c/2, c/3, 2c/4, and 2c/5.

On the other hand, c/4, c/5, c/4d, and c/5d did not complete with 8G of RAM, but what little poking I've done so far for finite widths hasn't turned up anything so the jury is still out.

Perhaps more results later when I have more RAM available to allocate to the question or when more searches at finite width have completed.

*My definition of "shared" here is the strictest possible, namely that not only is the collection of cell coordinates the same in one generation, but the evolution through all generations is identical (and therefore at no point is the absence/presence of B5 used). Contrast with a weaker definition where one generation must match but intervening generations could proceed differently as long as they looped back around to the same matching generation.

[Haycat2009]

Are there any spaceships that work in both B35/S23 and B3/S23?

With a moderately weird setup LLSSS can search for ships that are shared* between the two rules. With further weirdness it can search for arbitrary width ships. When such a search terminates with no results it shows, barring bugs, that there are no (finite) ships at all. This was easily and quickly the case for c/2, c/3, 2c/4, and 2c/5.

On the other hand, c/4, c/5, c/4d, and c/5d did not complete with 8G of RAM, but what little poking I've done so far for finite widths hasn't turned up anything so the jury is still out.

Perhaps more results later when I have more RAM available to allocate to the question or when more searches at finite width have completed.

*My definition of "shared" here is the strictest possible, namely that not only is the collection of cell coordinates the same in one generation, but the evolution through all generations is identical (and therefore at no point is the absence/presence of B5 used). Contrast with a weaker definition where one generation must match but intervening generations could proceed differently as long as they looped back around to the same matching generation.

With the weaker defination (Something like the golden head), how do we search for those?

[confocaloid]

You could go even weaker than copperhead vs. goldenhead or CGoL pentadecathlon vs. B3/S238 pentadecathlon, if you allow the period/displacement to be different and require only that one phase coincides. Unlike the strict requirement of identical evolution across all phases, this is not transitive (if A has a common phase with B and if B has a common phase with C, it does not yet follow that A has a common phase with C).

Code: Select all

x = 3, y = 3, rule = B3-q5nq/S2-ck3-n4ir5y
2o$b2o$o!

Code: Select all

x = 3, y = 3, rule = B35ijn6i/S23-cnq4jy5n
3o$2bo$bo!

I win the thread.

[amling]

*My definition of "shared" here is the strictest possible, namely that not only is the collection of cell coordinates the same in one generation, but the evolution through all generations is identical (and therefore at no point is the absence/presence of B5 used). Contrast with a weaker definition where one generation must match but intervening generations could proceed differently as long as they looped back around to the same matching generation.

With the weaker definition (Something like the golden head), how do we search for those?

All the search programs for which I have even a vague idea of the operation principles (gfind, LSSS, LGOL, LLSSS) are very insistent on knowing the states of all generations. I would in fact assume most if not all successful search programs are going to be similarly insistent.

Given that it's sort of hard to search for a weaker definition (What is "golden head"? I'm going to assume we mean "matching in one generation and in velocity"). The only thing I can think of that's even vaguely close is you could search in the product CA (2x2 = 4 states, where each cell tracks a state for each rule and they evolve independently) and require that all cells in one generation be one of the two matching states. Alas, I am unlikely to be able to help any further as for both of mine (LGOL and LLSSS) the assumption of 2 state CA has beyond sailed.

[amling]

Are there any spaceships that work in both B35/S23 and B3/S23?

c/4, c/5, c/4d, and c/5d did not complete with 8G of RAM...

c/4, c/5, and c/5d also did not complete with 60G of RAM. c/4d did complete with no results.

Bigger finite width searches still WIP.

[amling]

Bigger finite width searches still WIP.

No luck for any of c/4, c/5, or c/5d for LLSSS up to 60G. Longest partials do not even look very interesting or healthy.

[azulavoir]

What is "goldenhead"?

This is copperhead, a small c/10 from normal life.

Code: Select all

x = 10, y = 13, rule = B3/S23
4b2o$3b4o2$2b6o$3b4o2$2b2o2b2o$2obo2bob2o$3bo2bo3$4b2o$4b2o!

This, on the other hand, is goldenhead, a nearly identical small c/10 in Drylife:

Code: Select all

x = 10, y = 13, rule = B37/S23
4b2o$3b4o$4b2o$2b6o$3b4o2$2b2o2b2o$2obo2bob2o$3bo2bo3$4b2o$4b2o!

They differ in one phase by two cells but are otherwise basically the same ship.

[Period1GliderGun]

What is "goldenhead"?

This is copperhead, a small c/10 from normal life.

Code: Select all

x = 10, y = 13, rule = B3/S23
4b2o$3b4o2$2b6o$3b4o2$2b2o2b2o$2obo2bob2o$3bo2bo3$4b2o$4b2o!

This, on the other hand, is goldenhead, a nearly identical small c/10 in Drylife:

Code: Select all

x = 10, y = 13, rule = B37/S23
4b2o$3b4o$4b2o$2b6o$3b4o2$2b2o2b2o$2obo2bob2o$3bo2bo3$4b2o$4b2o!

They differ in one phase by two cells but are otherwise basically the same ship.

Another small difference is that the goldenhead requires S3i to function, while the copperhead does not.

Code: Select all

x = 10, y = 13, rule = B3/S23-i
4b2o$3b4o2$2b6o$3b4o2$2b2o2b2o$2obo2bob2o$3bo2bo3$4b2o$4b2o!

Code: Select all

x = 10, y = 13, rule = B37/S23-i
4b2o$3b4o$4b2o$2b6o$3b4o2$2b2o2b2o$2obo2bob2o$3bo2bo3$4b2o$4b2o!

[Haycat2009]

What is "goldenhead"?

This is copperhead, a small c/10 from normal life.

Code: Select all

x = 10, y = 13, rule = B3/S23
4b2o$3b4o2$2b6o$3b4o2$2b2o2b2o$2obo2bob2o$3bo2bo3$4b2o$4b2o!

This, on the other hand, is goldenhead, a nearly identical small c/10 in Drylife:

Code: Select all

x = 10, y = 13, rule = B37/S23
4b2o$3b4o$4b2o$2b6o$3b4o2$2b2o2b2o$2obo2bob2o$3bo2bo3$4b2o$4b2o!

They differ in one phase by two cells but are otherwise basically the same ship.

Another small difference is that the goldenhead requires S3i to function, while the copperhead does not.

Code: Select all

x = 10, y = 13, rule = B3/S23-i
4b2o$3b4o2$2b6o$3b4o2$2b2o2b2o$2obo2bob2o$3bo2bo3$4b2o$4b2o!

Code: Select all

x = 10, y = 13, rule = B37/S23-i
4b2o$3b4o$4b2o$2b6o$3b4o2$2b2o2b2o$2obo2bob2o$3bo2bo3$4b2o$4b2o!

That is typical of things that work slightly differently in other rules, but the main question is how to search for those.

[Haycat2009]

How are the searches going?

[amling]

How are the searches going?

Was this to me? I did not see it as it did not quote me and I am not subscribed to this (or most) topics.

As I wrote above:

No luck for any of c/4, c/5, or c/5d for LLSSS up to 60G. Longest partials do not even look very interesting or healthy.

[Haycat2009]

No worries - my roommate works at a research lab, which has a supercomputer. I will ask him to run gfind for 24 hours.

EDIT: He said that it can only be run for 6 minutes at most at a time without official approval, before needing a 30-second cooldown. Will it work?

EDIT 2: He said that if it is run for more than 9 minutes, there are probably no results.

EDIT 3: No results after 6 minutes. Have to stop now.

[Sokwe]

No worries - my roommate works at a research lab, which has a supercomputer. I will ask him to run gfind for 24 hours.

My understanding is that supercomputers rely on parallel architectures for their speed, but gfind is single threaded; it is not written for parallel computing. I imagine a gfind search on a supercomputer wouldn't be much faster than on a home desktop.

The programs I'm aware of that utilize multithreading are LSSS, LLSSS, ikpx2, and qfind. Of these, only some variant of LLSSS has been configured to look for ships that work in two desired rules at once. It wouldn't be hard to modify qfind for this purpose, but qfind will always be at a fixed width, while Amling's LLSSS searches are for arbitrary-width ships. Thus these searches can eliminate the possibility of any ships of the chosen period and speed (if Keith has enough RAM to complete the search).

[Haycat2009]

Noted a zz_explosive in H2+2. Why is there even one?

[confocaloid]

Noted a zz_explosive in H2+2. Why is there even one?

Below are the two soups linked from object/zz_EXPLOSIVE/b35s23:

Code: Select all

#C https://catagolue.hatsya.com/hashsoup/H2_+2/k_PBgu9nWFGbCH25589123/b35s23
#C Soup k_PBgu9nWFGbCH25589123 was found on 2023-09-20 at 11:53:27 UTC and is owned by carsoncheng
x = 16, y = 32, rule = B35/S23
boboobbboobbbboo$
oobboobbbbooooob$
oooobboooooobbob$
bboobbobobooooob$
oobbboobbbobbooo$
obooobobbbboobbo$
obbbobbobobbbooo$
bbbooboobbbbbboo$
bbobobbobooboooo$
bobbobbbooobbooo$
bbboooobobbbbobb$
bboobboobbobobob$
booobbooobooobob$
ooobbbbobooobbob$
ooboooooobooooob$
bobbbboobooobbbb$
bobbbboobooobbbb$
ooboooooobooooob$
ooobbbbobooobbob$
booobbooobooobob$
bboobboobbobobob$
bbboooobobbbbobb$
bobbobbbooobbooo$
bbobobbobooboooo$
bbbooboobbbbbboo$
obbbobbobobbbooo$
obooobobbbboobbo$
oobbboobbbobbooo$
bboobbobobooooob$
oooobboooooobbob$
oobboobbbbooooob$
boboobbboobbbboo!

Code: Select all

#C https://catagolue.hatsya.com/hashsoup/H2_+2/k_hW7DHtAngTsf41635944/b35s23
#C Soup k_hW7DHtAngTsf41635944 was found on 2023-09-20 at 14:17:57 UTC and is owned by carsoncheng
x = 16, y = 32, rule = B35/S23
ooboobobooobboob$
oooobboobobobbbb$
boooboobooboobbo$
bbboboobobbbbobb$
ooboooobobbbbbbb$
bobobboboobboobo$
oobbboooboobobbo$
obbbbobbooobbobb$
boboooobbobobbbb$
bbobbbbbbobboboo$
bbobbooobbobbbbb$
obbobooooboooboo$
boboobbbbobbbboo$
bbooboobbboobbob$
ooobbboboooobbbb$
oboboobboobooobo$
oboboobboobooobo$
ooobbboboooobbbb$
bbooboobbboobbob$
boboobbbbobbbboo$
obbobooooboooboo$
bbobbooobbobbbbb$
bbobbbbbbobboboo$
boboooobbobobbbb$
obbbbobbooobbobb$
oobbboooboobobbo$
bobobboboobboobo$
ooboooobobbbbbbb$
bbboboobobbbbobb$
boooboobooboobbo$
oooobboobobobbbb$
ooboobobooobboob!

Neither is "actually explosive" (to the extent that 'explosive' is well-defined). Those are just puffers. It seems like apgsearch identification algorithm classifies these as "zz_EXPLOSIVE" for some reason.