Self-Replicator Competition?

alexv · Post by **alexv** » September 27th, 2014, 8:50 am

This mutant has even more boring behavior

x = 10, y = 13, rule = shapeloop
3$2.ADCB$2.A2HC$2.AHIDCD$2.AHI2HD$2.AH2.HD$2.A4HF$2.4AEA!

PS. Yet, an interesting property of the loop is behavior after reflection. The resulting loop may not produce
own copies - it's producing other loop.

Code: Select all

x = 14, y = 13, rule = shapeloop
4$4.5AFA$4.A5HE$4.A2H2.HD$4.3AH.HD$6.DHIHD$6.CBCDC!

The loop has the same shape as "tide" in previous post, but it is other loop ("DNA" is slightly different)!

bprentice · Post by **bprentice** » September 27th, 2014, 9:26 am

alexv wrote: This mutant has even more boring behavior
Code: Select all
x = 10, y = 13, rule = shapeloop
3$2.ADCB$2.A2HC$2.AHIDCD$2.AHI2HD$2.AH2.HD$2.A4HF$2.4AEA!

Alexander, your pattern seems to have the same behavior as this one:

Code: Select all

x = 6, y = 6, rule = shapeloop-a
6A$E4HA$D4HA$D2HD2A$D2HC$CDCB!

by Scorbie.

See:

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1446&start=0#p13473

Brian Prentice

alexv · Post by **alexv** » September 27th, 2014, 9:35 am

Not the same behavior, but I should uncover a top secret. Both mutants from previous post appear in project to
win the terrible 6x6 pattern you mention.

Post by **dvgrn** » September 27th, 2014, 9:59 am

Tezcatlipoca wrote:Here is my contribution! I call it the "dismal tide" because it is decidedly boring behaviorally and it moves kind of a like a tide.

So far, as you might expect, there seems to be a very high correlation between a loop's success at beating back competitors and the total size of the loop (and consequently the overall replication speed). The quicker you can get the next poison-tipped construction arm out there, the better -- it amounts to the very simple rule of "reach out and kill your neighbor before your neighbor can reach out and kill you,"

So... is it time to think about some kind of new variant rule that allows for the possibility of defense against this kind of attack? Or is there maybe a way to design a clever defensive structure in Shapeloop, where a big complex internal loop can slowly make copies of itself while also generating a defensive shield of disconnected looplets? Otherwise it seems as if this dismal tide of ever more efficient loops is quickly going to choke out the biodiversity in this rule.

Maybe a wider variety of habitats could allow less efficient mutants to keep a foothold here and there. But have we really seen very much recombination in this rule, or is mostly just truncation of longer genes? If the trend is inevitably toward shorter and shorter loops, then that's definitely going to cripple Shapeloop's evolutionary potential in the long run.

Tezcatlipoca · Post by **Tezcatlipoca** » September 27th, 2014, 5:37 pm

Now I have once or twice seen something suitable develop. Check out my poorly recieved joke post on the "smallest shapeloop loop" for something that is uncannily like cell wall or membrane formation. I want to branch from there but the size makes it difficult.

Tezcatlipoca · Post by **Tezcatlipoca** » September 27th, 2014, 7:10 pm

Code: Select all

x = 2076, y = 312, rule = shapeloop

912.148A$912.148H$951.2H72.2H8$1430.D2ADA2D2ADA2D2ADA2D2ADA2D2ADA2D2A

DA2D2ADA2D2ADA2D2AD3ADAD$1430.D56HE$1427.2ADAH54.HB$1427.D2H2I54.HD$

1427.D59HC$1427.AD2A2DAD2A2DAD2A2DAD2A2DAD2A2DAD2A2DAD2A2DAD2A2DAD2A

2DADADACD5$1237.G71.DCADADADADABD$1232.CA2DCD71.A11HA$1232.A4HA71.DH

6.3IHD$1232.AH2.HA71.A6HJHDCDAG$1232.AH.2HA71.DBF2ADAJHC$1232.B2HADA

77.C2HA$1137.G9.ADFDAD79.AJHD79.D2HD$1133.FDADA9.A4HA6.G72.C2AF79.B2H

A$1133.D3HA9.AH2.H2AD5A155.A2HD$1133.AH.HA9.DH3.7HA155.DADA$1133.AH.H

D9.AH9.HA$1133.AH.HA9.AH9.HD$1133.DH.HA9.AH8.2HF$1133.AH.HA9.AH7.HDAD

$1131.3AH.HA9.AH7.HA$1131.A2H2.HA9.AH7.HA274.56H$1131.AH3.HA9.AH7.HA

274.H54.H$1131.AH3.HA9.A5H3.HD271.2H2I54.H$1131.A5HD9.2ADCABH2.HA271.

59H$1131.2ADCABD14.D4HA$1152.D5A$1237.G73.11H$1311.H6.3IH$1233.4H74.

6HJH4.G$1233.H2.H80.JH$1233.H.2H80.2H$1233.2H82.2H$1233.JH82.2H$1317.

2H6$1224.DAD4ADC2DAC3ABAF2AC4$1125.D10AD3ADFDAD3AD7A2DBAC3$1296.DCADA

DADADABDCAD2AFBDADADCADADADADABDADADC10$1395.BDCDCADADA2D2ADA2D2ADA2D

2ADA2D2ADA2D2ADA2D2ADA2D2ADA2D2ADA2D2ADA2D2ADA2D2ADA2D2ADA2D2ADA2D2AD

A2D2ADA2D2ADA2D2ADA2D2ADA2D2AD3ADADE10$175.D3A$175.A2HD116.G$175.AHJ

3AD3AD3AD3AD3AD3AD3AD3AD3AD3AD3AD3AD3AD3AD3AD3AD3AD3AD3AD3AD3AD3AD3AD

3AD3AD3AD5AD3AD3AD$175.AHJ117HA$175.DH115.2JHA$175.AH115.HADA$175.AH

115.HA$175.AH115.HA$175.DH115.HD$175.AH115.HA$175.AH115.HA$175.AH115.

HA$175.DH115.HD$175.AH115.HA363.G$175.AH115.HA356.DAC2DADA$175.AH115.

HA356.A6HD$175.DH115.HD356.DH4.HD$175.AH115.HA356.AH4.HDADA$175.AH

115.HA356.DH5.HJHD$175.AH115.HA356.A9HA$175.DH115.HD356.DADFADBDCDC$

175.AH115.HA$175.AH115.HA$175.AH115.HA469.G$175.DH115.HD465.5A$175.AH

115.HA465.A3HA$175.AH115.HA465.FH.HA$175.AH115.HA465.DH.HA$175.DH115.

HD462.DADAH.HA$175.AH115.HA462.A3H2.HD$175.AH115.HA344.2DADA3DADADACD

CDBDAFDADADADADAC2DAD82.DH4.HD$175.AH115.HA462.A6HB$175.DH115.HD462.D

2AC2DCD$175.AH115.HA$175.AH115.HA1693.H3.H15.J3.J15.H3.H$175.AH115.HA

1639.4H14.3AC33.E2B.H15.E2B.J15.EBE.H$175.DH115.HD1496.4H138.HCDCDH

13.D2HD33.BJFE16.BJFE16.DJ2A$175.AH115.HA1495.H4AH137.HD2.C12H2.AJHD

33.BCJB16.BCJA16.EDJD36.G$175.AH115.HA1495.HA2.AH137.HC.J2DA2DC3ADADF

BFD2HA32.H.E2B15.J.E2B15.H.EBE30.AD5A$175.AH115.HA1495.HAJ.AH137.HDCD

13.F2HIHD33.H3.H15.J3.J15.H3.H29.A5HD$175.DH115.HD1338.CADA153.J.3AH

138.3HJ12.BJHJHA107.AH3.HA$175.AH115.HA451.10A2DBDC2DC2ADADADADADF

857.D2HD38.4A7.4A102.D2H84.DADADA65.DCDCAD107.AH3.HD$175.AH115.HA590.

G747.C2HA38.A2HA7.A2HA102.AH85.DHJHJC178.A5HD$175.AH115.HA587.2ACD

747.D2HA38.A2HA7.A2HA102.DH85.CHI2HD178.D3ACAB$175.DH115.HD587.D2HD

747.A2HA38.AHJA7.AHJA102.FH85.D2HBDC$175.AH115.HA587.A2HC640.25ABF80.

DHJD3ADAD32.A2HA7.A2HA102.BH85.AHJF$175.AH115.HA587.D2HD640.A25HD2.G

77.AHJ6HA32.AHJ5A3.AHJ5A98.DH85.D2HA$175.AH115.HA587.AHIB2DC637.AH23.

HADAD70.2A5.DH6.HB32.AHJ4HA3.AHJ4HA98.BH85.4A105.H3.H15.J3.J15.H3.H$

175.DH115.HD587.DHI3HD635.3AH24.3HA70.2AFDADAB7.H3A28.3AH4.H5AH4.H8A

91.DH150.2H47.H19.J19.H$175.AH115.HA587.FH3.HA635.A2H27.HD69.3AHJ4H8.

2HF28.A2H6.5H6.7HA91.BH150.JH44.J19.J19.J$175.AH115.HA587.A5HA529.G

105.AH28.HA68.DABAH14.JD28.AH19.2JHJ2HA91.DH150.2H45.J19.J19.J$175.AH

115.HA587.7A519.3A2DBAC2DC105.AH28.HD68.A3H15.HA28.AH19.H6A91.BH148.

2HIH42.H19.J19.H$175.DH115.HD1113.D9HA105.AH28.HA68.DH17.HD23.6AH19.H

A96.DH148.JHJH43.H3.H15.J3.J15.H3.H$175.AH115.HA1113.AH7.HA105.AH28.H

D68.AH17.HA23.A2HJH2J19.HA96.DH$175.AH115.HA1034.4A75.DH7.HD105.AH28.

HA68.AH17.HBDADADCDC15.A7H17.2HA96.CH261.3AD5AD5ADA2DBAC$175.AH115.HA

1034.A2HA2.G72.FH7.HA105.AH28.HD68.AH19.7HA15.8AH15.H3A96.DH192.3BEC

2BE2BFE7.2A2BEC2BE2BFE7.2ADEBEDEDEBE$175.DH115.HD1034.AHJ4A72.DH7.HD

105.AH28.HA63.AD3ADH20.2J4HD22.AH15.HA98.DH77.BDCDCADADA2DCDAD5AF$

175.AH115.HA1032.3AHJ2HJA72.AH7.HA105.AH28.HD63.D4H2J20.HD3ADA22.AH

15.HA98.CH139.ADA3DACDCDBFBFDAD3AC$175.AH115.HA1032.AH2J.I2HA72.DH7.H

D105.AH28.HA63.A7H19.HA27.AH15.HA98.AH$175.AH115.HA1032.A3HJHBDA72.AH

7.HA105.AH28.HD63.CDCDADADBH17.HA25.3AH15.H8A91.AH$175.DH115.HD577.2D

CDB2DCD10AFDADAD2AC427.3ACJHF74.DH7.HA105.AH28.HA71.AH17.HA25.A2H17.

7HA59.4H23.DACDAD$175.AH115.HA1035.A2HD74.A6H2.HA105.AH28.HD71.DH17.H

D25.AH19.2JHJ2HA58.H4AH22.A4HA$175.AH115.HA1035.4A74.DAD3ADH.HA105.AH

28.HA71.AH15.3HA25.AH19.H6A58.HA2.A19H4.DH2.HAC2D$175.AH115.HA1119.A

3HA105.AH28.HD71.DJ14.HABAD20.6AH19.HA63.HA.JADC2DC2ADADCADADA2DCDC2D

AH3.HJHC$175.DH115.HD1119.D3AD105.AH28.HA71.F2H8.4HJHA23.A2HJH2J19.HA

63.H3A20.CHIH2I5.HD$175.AH115.HA1229.AH28.HD71.3AH7.BADADFAFD21.A7H6.

5H6.2HA64.3HJ19.D11HD$175.AH115.HA1229.AH28.HA73.BH6.HD6.2HI20.8AH4.H

5AH4.H3A87.2ADADFBDBDBDB$175.AH115.HA1229.AH28.HD73.A6HJHA36.A4HJHA3.

A4HJHA$175.DH115.HD1229.AH28.HA73.DAD3ADJHD36.5AJHA3.5AJHA$175.AH115.

HA1229.AH28.HD79.A2HA40.A2HA7.A2HA$175.AH115.HA1229.AH28.HA79.A2HD40.

AJHA7.AJHA193.ADACDC$175.AH115.HA1229.AH28.HD79.A2HC40.A2HA7.A2HA193.

DHJHJD$175.DH115.HD1229.AH27.2HA79.D2HD40.A2HA7.A2HA193.AHI2HB$175.AH

115.HA1229.A3H24.HDAD79.ADAC40.4A7.4A193.D2HFBF$175.AH115.HA1035.2H3.

G188.4AH23.HA207.C2DC2DBDBDBDBFDAD2ADCDC2DADADACDAD2A90.DHJD$175.AH

115.HA1035.HJ195.A25HD333.C2HA$175.DH115.HD1035.HJ2HJ192.9AD3ACADADAD

ADADADA333.3AD$175.AH115.HA1033.H2J.I2H$175.AH115.HA1033.3HJH$175.AH

115.HA1036.JH$175.DH115.HD854.3AC178.2H$175.AH115.HA854.D2HA6.G$175.A

H115.HA854.FHJ8A719.2DADADACDCDBFBFDAD3AC$175.AH115.HA854.BHJ6HJA$

175.DH115.HD854.DH5.I2HA258.G$175.AH115.HA854.AH5.H3A$175.AH115.HA

854.DH5.HA251.9H$175.AH115.HA852.3AH5.HA251.H7.H$175.DH115.HD852.DH2J

5.HA251.H7.H$175.AH115.HA852.A7HJHA251.H7.H$175.AH115.HA852.2AD5AJHA

251.H7.H$175.AH115.HA859.A2HA159.5ADFBD22AC60.H7.H$175.DH115.HD859.AD

2A251.H7.H189.FDADABDADADCDCADAD3AD3ADADAB3ADADAB3AFDADABDADADCDCADAD

3AD3ADADAB3AFDADABDADADCDCADADAB3ADADAB3AF$175.AH115.HA1114.H7.H$175.

AH115.HA1114.H7.H$175.AH115.HA386.G727.6H2.H$175.DH115.HD381.DBF2AD

733.H.H111.25H3.G$175.AH115.HA381.CHJHJA733.3H111.H23.H$175.AH115.HA

381.DHI2HA847.H24.3H$175.AH115.HA381.C2HDCA845.2H27.H$175.DH115.HD

381.AHJC847.H28.H$175.AH115.HA381.D2HD450.22AD7AD3AD3ADADBFD3AC349.H

28.H$175.AH115.HA381.ADAD847.H28.H$175.AH115.HA1232.H28.H$175.DH115.H

D1232.H28.H$175.AH115.HA1232.H28.H$175.AH115.HA554.G677.H28.H$175.AH

115.HA551.DACA543.2DC2ADADAD5AD3ADAD3ADADADADADFDAD3A2DBAC88.H28.H$

175.DH115.HD551.AHJA677.H28.H$175.AH115.HA551.D2HA677.H28.H$175.AH

115.HA549.ADA2HA677.H28.H$175.AH115.HA374.2AD3ACDC2DADADACDCDBF153.D

2HJHA677.H28.H$175.DH115.HD549.FH.2HD677.H28.H$175.AH115.HA549.B2H3A

677.H28.H$175.AH115.HA549.D2HA679.H28.H$175.AH115.HA549.A2HA403.CDCDA

D270.H28.H$175.DH115.HD549.3AC403.A4HA2.G267.H28.H$173.3AH115.HA956.D

H2.HDBFD267.H28.H$173.DH2J115.HA956.AH3.3HA267.H28.H$173.A117HIHA956.

DH5.HA267.H28.H$173.2AD5AD22AC3ADFBDAD3AD3AD3AD3AD3AD3AD3AD3AD3AD3AD

3AD3AD3AD3AD3AD3AD3AD3AD3ADA2HD956.AH5.HA267.H28.H$173.G116.AHJA956.D

H5.HA267.H28.H$290.AD2A956.AH5.HD267.H27.2H$1250.DH5.HD267.3H24.H$

1250.A3H3.HA270.H23.H$832.5AD5AC4ADBFDADADADAC390.BDCAH.2HC270.25H$

1253.D2HA2D$1253.A2HA$1253.D2HA$1253.A2HA$1253.D2HD$1253.ADAD14$1481.

DADADADADADADADADADADADADADADADADADADADADADADADAC3AD69ABF$1330.BADADA

DA$1330.D6HD$1330.CH4.HACDCDA$1250.4H3.G72.A3H3.HJ3HD$1250.H2.H76.DAD

FH.6HA$1250.H3.3H76.B2HADADABD$1250.H5.H76.D2HD$1250.H5.H76.A2HA$

1250.H5.H76.D2HD$1250.H5.H76.A2HA$1250.H5.H76.DCDC$1250.3H3.H$810.ADA

D3A436.H.2H$22AD5AD3AD3AD3AD3AD3AD3AD3AD3AD3AD3AD3AD3AD3AD3AD3AD3AD3A

D3AD3AD3AD3AD3AD3AD3AD3AD3AD3AD3AD3AD3AD3AD3AD3AD3AD3AD3AD3AD3AD3AD3A

D3AD3AD3AD3AD3AD3AD3AD3AD3AD3AD3AD3AD3AD3AD3AD3AD3AD3AD5AD3AD3AD3AD3A

D3AD3AD3AD3AD3AD3AD3AD3AD3AD3AD3AD3AD3AD3AD3AD3AD3AD3AD3AD3AD3AD3AD3A

D3AD3AD3AD3AD3AD3AD3AD3AD3AD3AD3AD3AD3AD3AD3AD3AD3AD3AD3AD3AD3AD3AD3A

D3AD3AD3ADADBFD3AC322.D5HC4.G431.2H$810.AH3.H3AD2A431.2H$810.DH4.5HA

431.2H$810.FH8.HA431.2H$808.ADBH8.HA431.2H$808.D2H9.HA$808.AH9.2HA$

808.DH8.H3A$808.AH8.HD$808.A5H4.HA$808.2AC3AH3.HD410.ADADADADA2D4A2DC

A2D4ADFBDADADCDCADADADADABDC$813.D5HB$813.ADADADF$1332.6H$1332.H4.H$

1332.3H3.HJ3H$1335.H.6H$1335.2H$1335.2H$1335.2H$1335.2H$1335.2H11$

1314.CDCDADADBADADADADADAD2ACDBDADFBDADADCDADADAC2$789.3AD10ADADBFDAD

ADAD3AC4ADADADBFDADADAD3AC5$1111.DCAD2A$1111.B4HE$1111.AH2.HD$1111.A

2HIHA$1111.ACAIHD$1113.DIHA$1113.D2HD$1113.CD2A11$1113.4H$1113.H2.H$

1113.2HIH$1115.IH$1115.IH$1115.2H9$1103.DADAD2ADC2DAC3ABDCAD2AE!

Here's are some of my older loops unfolded for comparison purposes, "genetics.".

c0b0p0 · Post by **c0b0p0** » September 27th, 2014, 10:40 pm

Here is the current competition after I added a new loop.

Code: Select all

x = 329, y = 237, rule = shapeloop-ltd
198.19N$194.4N19.6N$190.4N29.3N$186.4N36.4N$183.3N44.3N$179.4N50.3N$
176.3N57.3N$173.3N63.2N$170.3N68.3N$168.2N74.2N$165.3N78.2N$162.3N83.
2N$159.3N88.2N$157.2N93.N$156.N96.2N$155.N99.2N$154.N102.2N$154.N104.
N$153.N106.N$151.2N108.N$149.2N111.2N$147.2N115.N$145.2N118.N$144.N
59.H61.N$142.2N60.KDFDAD57.N$140.2N63.D3HA58.N$138.2N65.CH.HD59.N$
131.N5.N67.DH.HA60.N$132.5N68.DH.HDADAD56.N$129.5N71.BH2.4HA57.N$126.
3N5.N70.DH5.HD58.N$123.3N8.N70.DH5.HA59.N$120.3N12.N69.CH5.HD60.N$
117.3N16.2N67.DH5.HA61.N$115.2N21.2N65.DH5.HD61.N$112.3N25.3N62.AH5.H
A62.N$109.3N31.2N60.DH5.HD63.N$107.2N36.2N58.AH5.HD64.N$105.2N40.2N
56.DH5.HC65.N$103.2N44.2N54.AH5.HD65.N$100.3N48.3N51.D7HD66.N$98.2N
54.2N49.ADADADADA67.N$96.2N58.2N124.N$94.2N62.2N123.N$92.2N66.2N121.N
$90.2N70.2N120.N$88.2N74.N120.N$84.4N77.2N119.N$79.5N83.N118.N$44.N.N
28.4N89.2N117.N$45.30N95.2N116.N$46.N125.2N114.N$46.N127.N114.N$46.N
128.2N112.N$46.N130.2N111.N$45.N133.2N110.N$44.N136.2N108.N$42.3N138.
N108.N$41.N142.2N107.N$37.4N145.2N105.N$34.3N151.2N104.N$32.2N156.3N
101.N$30.2N161.2N100.N$28.2N165.2N99.N$6.22N169.7N92.N$5.N198.4N89.N$
4.N92.A2DCD106.6N83.N$3.N93.C3HA112.2N82.N$3.N93.AH.H3A112.5N77.N$2.N
94.AH2.2HD195.N$.N95.A4HJA195.N$.N95.BAC2AFD94.N101.N$.N95.G100.N101.
N$.N162.6A28.N102.N$N163.A4HA28.N102.N$N163.AH2.HE28.N88.14N.N$N163.A
H2.HD28.N84.4N15.N$N163.A2HIHA29.N81.2N20.N$N163.DCDIHC29.N78.3N23.N$
N165.DIHA29.N76.2N26.N$N165.B2HA29.N74.2N29.N$N165.C2HA29.N73.N31.N$N
165.2DAD30.N70.2N33.N$N199.N68.2N35.N$N199.N24.G2DC2DB2DCD32.N38.N$N
199.N25.A8HA31.N39.N$N199.N25.DH2.2I3HA29.2N41.N$N24.B2DC171.N25.AH2.
H5A28.N43.N$N24.C2HD171.N25.AH2.HA31.N45.N$N24.DHIA171.N25.AH2.HA30.N
46.N$N24.C2HA171.N25.C4HA30.N47.N$N24.BHI3A169.N25.2DADFA29.N48.N$N
24.CHI2HA169.N59.N50.N$N24.DH2JHA168.2N59.N50.N$N24.A2H3A167.N60.N52.
N$N24.DJHA169.N60.N52.N$N24.2ADF169.N59.N53.N$N24.G172.N58.N54.N$N
197.N57.N56.N$N197.N56.2N56.N$N197.N56.N57.N$N197.N56.N30.2DC2D23.N$.
N196.N56.N30.B3HC23.N$.N196.N56.N30.DH.HD23.N$.N197.N55.N30.DH.HD23.N
$.N197.N55.N26.DC2DCH.HB2D2A20.N$.N71.18N108.N55.N26.D4H3.4HA20.N$.N
69.2N18.3N105.N54.N27.BH9.HA20.N$.N67.2N23.N104.N54.N27.D4H3.4HA20.N$
.N66.N26.N103.N53.N28.DC2DCH.H5A21.N$2.N63.2N27.N157.N32.DH.HA25.N$2.
N62.N30.2N155.N32.DH.HA25.N$2.N62.3N30.N18.N135.N32.B3HA25.N$2.N64.2N
30.N17.N135.N32.2DE2A26.N$2.N65.N30.N17.N136.2N61.N$2.N65.N31.3N14.N
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27N!

Scorbie · Post by **Scorbie** » September 30th, 2014, 6:25 am

Something definitely was going here when I wasn't looking! Many thanks to bprentice

dvgrn wrote:Or is there maybe a way to design a clever defensive structure in Shapeloop, where a big complex internal loop can slowly make copies of itself while also generating a defensive shield of disconnected looplets? Otherwise it seems as if this dismal tide of ever more efficient loops is quickly going to choke out the biodiversity in this rule.

My suggestion (for a big loop in shapeloop to survive) is the ability to make new colonies(and run away). Sadly I'm not sure whether this would work, and this cannot be tested in small bounded grids.http://conwaylife.com/forums/viewtopic. ... 440#p13399
I Also think that evolution in bounded grids and infinite grids are not the same. Bigger loops have the advantage of going farther(and sometimes faster) in each replication phase, but this is not shown in bounded grids.

dvgrn also wrote:... If the trend is inevitably toward shorter and shorter loops, then that's definitely going to cripple Shapeloop's evolutionary potential in the long run.

I totally agree. Looks like I'm not the only one concerned with biodiversity in shapeloop!

Edit: My mistake.
Oh and I tried my loop with one of alexv's loops... but found different results from...

what alexv wrote:Both mutants from previous post appear in project to win the terrible 6x6 pattern you mention.

Maybe the results are affected by initial condition of the loops? When I do it, mine tends to dominate (but slowly).

alexv · Post by **alexv** » September 30th, 2014, 6:44 am

I did not write that the project succeed.

Scorbie · Post by **Scorbie** » September 30th, 2014, 8:47 am

alexv wrote:I did not write that the project succeed.

Oops, I understood wrong

It would be both interesting and meaningful (and a little bit jealous for me

) if your project succeeded, since such a loop makes it possible for bigger loops to win smaller loops

alexv · Post by **alexv** » September 30th, 2014, 10:10 am

Bigger loop won here
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1446#p13470
but not against smaller known 6x6 loop we are talking about. In my project I added
the loop to some competition and mentioned mutants suddenly appear, but they can
not win the 6x6 loop, yet may compete longer than other.

Scorbie · Post by **Scorbie** » September 30th, 2014, 11:43 am

Oh that's nice to see! I hope that's a step forward to biodiversity in shapeloop.(I guess the 6x6 loop is a biological threat to the ecosystem.) I'm not sure whether there is a certain mechanism for a big loop to win.
Anyway, thanks for pointing out!
Edit: Oh, the BIGGEST loop wins? That's very unusual indeed!

Scorbie · Post by **Scorbie** » September 30th, 2014, 12:24 pm

I think "spiralish" loops outwin randomly growing loops, since the former has a higher density.
The competition of these two loops are fun to watch. Well, the bigger loop won, mainly due to higher density. (and also due to the foolishness of the smaller loop to attack the bigger loop

)

Code: Select all

x = 925, y = 1510, rule = shapeloop-ltd
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pi_guy314 · Post by **pi_guy314** » September 30th, 2014, 3:55 pm

Here's a slight modification of the rule that makes every loop grow a second arm.

Code: Select all

@RULE 2armshapeloop
1 wire
2 left signal
3 right signal
4 forward signal
5 trigger right
6 idle right
7 converter
8 lead
9 edge 1
10 edge 2
11 starter
12 tempdel
13 delall
14 barrier
@TABLE
n_states:15
neighborhood:Moore
symmetries:rotate4
Var a={0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13}
Var b={1,2,3,4,5,6}
var c={9,10}
var d={1,2,3,4,5,6,7,10,11}
var e={1,2,3,4,5,6,11}
var f={0,8,9,10,13}
var g={8,9,10}
var h={0,8,10}
var i={0,9}
var j={3,5,6}
var k={1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11}
var aa={a}
var ab={a}
var ac={a}
var ad={a}
var ae={a}
var af={a}
var ag={a}
var ba={b}
var bb={b}
var bc={b}
var bd={b}
var bd={b}
var ca={c}
var da={d}
var db={d}
var dc={d}
var dd={d}
var fa={f}
var fb={f}
var ga={g}
var gb={g}
var gc={g}
#construct left
c,0,a,8,b,2,0,0,0,8
c,2,b,0,f,fa,fb,0,0,4
c,0,a,aa,8,8,b,4,0,8
0,0,2,c,f,fa,a,aa,ab,10
0,b,ba,0,a,aa,ab,c,2,c
9,b,ba,0,a,f,fa,4,bb,0
0,0,c,2,ca,0,a,aa,ab,8
0,4,f,fa,a,aa,ab,8,b,8
#construct right
c,f,fa,8,b,j,0,0,fb,4
9,j,b,h,a,aa,ab,0,0,11
c,j,b,h,a,aa,ab,0,0,h
8,a,aa,8,b,ba,j,c,ab,c
c,f,fa,8,b,ba,bb,4,fb,8
0,f,fa,c,j,0,a,aa,ab,10
f,a,aa,fa,8,4,c,fb,ab,1
f,a,aa,h,8,8,4,fa,ab,9
#construct forward
c,0,a,8,e,4,f,fa,fb,8
c,4,e,h,a,aa,ab,f,fa,h
c,4,e,b,a,aa,ab,f,fa,0
f,fa,c,4,ca,fb,a,aa,ab,1
f,a,h,c,4,fb,aa,ab,ac,c
f,fa,4,c,h,fb,a,aa,ab,c
#tempdel
12,a,aa,ab,ac,ad,ae,af,ag,0
#arm destruction
c,b,ba,bb,bc,0,0,g,bd,12
b,0,0,ba,bb,12,g,bc,0,12
g,b,ba,12,0,0,a,aa,ab,12
b,0,0,12,0,12,g,ba,0,12
#square loop destruction
b,ba,bb,9,8,bc,0,10,bd,13
#special lead transition
c,a,aa,ca,b,ba,bb,8,ab,8
c,a,aa,8,b,ba,bb,ca,ab,8
10,8,b,ba,bb,bc,bd,8,0,8
#delete immunity
g,a,aa,ab,ac,1,b,0,ad,g
g,1,a,aa,ab,ac,ad,8,b,g
b,g,a,aa,ab,ga,8,ba,0,ba
#delete
k,13,a,aa,ab,ac,ad,ae,af,13
k,a,13,aa,ab,ac,ad,ae,af,13
k,a,aa,13,ab,ac,ad,ae,af,13
13,a,aa,ab,ac,ad,ae,af,ag,0
#trigger right
b,5,0,0,i,0,0,ba,g,6
#converter
0,b,ba,12,12,12,10,10,10,7
b,0,0,12,0,ba,bb,10,10,7
b,ba,g,6,0,7,a,0,0,5
7,5,b,0,0,0,a,aa,0,0
b,0,a,7,0,ba,8,6,0,5
7,a,aa,0,0,0,b,5,0,0
0,0,0,b,ba,0,0,12,0,7
b,0,0,12,0,12,0,ba,bb,7
11,0,0,12,0,12,ba,bb,0,7
#starter growth
1,0,a,b,aa,8,8,11,0,4
4,0,a,b,aa,8,8,11,0,1
#special signal movement
b,ba,bb,9,8,bc,0,9,12,bc
b,ba,e,8,0,bb,8,8,bc,ba
b,ba,8,0,0,bb,8,8,8,ba
b,0,0,e,8,ba,8,bb,0,bb
b,0,0,ba,g,bb,g,bc,0,bc
b,ba,9,bb,8,8,8,bc,9,ba
b,9,0,ba,8,8,8,bb,bc,bb
#signal movement
b,ba,a,aa,ab,ac,ad,g,ae,ba
b,a,aa,ab,ac,g,ga,ba,ad,ba
b,a,aa,ab,ac,ad,g,ba,ae,ba
b,0,a,aa,ab,ac,ad,g,ae,1
b,a,aa,ab,ac,g,ga,0,ad,1
b,a,aa,ab,ac,ad,g,0,ae,1
#arm obstruction detection
0,0,d,a,aa,0,g,1,ga,13
0,0,a,d,aa,0,g,1,ga,13
0,0,a,aa,d,0,g,1,ga,13
0,0,d,a,aa,0,1,g,0,13
0,0,a,aa,d,0,0,9,1,13
#starter
0,0,0,0,0,0,i,b,5,11
0,11,0,0,0,0,0,0,6,8
0,0,0,0,0,0,0,8,11,9
0,0,0,0,0,0,8,11,0,1
1,0,0,0,0,9,8,11,0,4
0,0,0,0,0,1,11,0,0,9
11,0,0,b,8,8,0,6,ba,6
@COLORS
0 0 0 0
1 255 128 0
2 255 0 0
3 0 255 0
4 0 0 255
5 0 190 0
6 0 140 0
7 255 255 255
8 80 80 80
9 95 95 95
10 128 128 128
11 0 64 0
12 255 165 0
13 255 255 0
14 128 255 128

Also if you use the loop from the original rule that has a second arm, that same loop will grow a third arm!

Edit: added a barrier state and changed the color of state 12, nothing else in the rule changed.

bprentice · Post by **bprentice** » September 30th, 2014, 6:54 pm

This slight modification of the shapeloop rule produces some interesting results. Here are three examples found in just a few minutes:

Code: Select all

x = 28, y = 65, rule = 2armshapeloop
15.IAI$16.AH$I10H5.KH$ADADADADADKDCBCDC$I10.A4HD$11.AH2IHD$11.A2HAFD$
11.AJHA$11.4A9$22.IAI$23.AH$23.DH$23.AH$23.DH$23.AH$23.DH$23.AH$23.DH
$23.AH$23.DH$23.AH$23.KH$18.6A$18.FJ3HA$18.D2HIHA$18.2DCIHA$20.D2HA3.
I$20.CBCDKDAD$24.3HI17$22.IDI$23.AH$23.DH$23.AH$23.DH$23.KH$17.GE5A$
18.DJ3HA$18.D2HIHA$18.DCDIHA$20.C2HA$20.BCDA!

Code: Select all

x = 126, y = 89, rule = 2armshapeloop
101.I$100.DH$100.AH$100.DH$100.AH$100.DH$62.JAI35.AH$63.DH35.DH$63.DH
35.FH$63.D29H7.DH$63.CDCB2DC2D3ADADADADADF2DA3DCDCDC3DAD$63.K29.B6HD$
93.DH2.2IHF$93.DH2.HDAD$93.CH2.HA$93.DH2.HD$93.D4HA17.J$93.3ADAD9.KDC
2DBCDC$109.D6HI$109.AH$109.AH$109.AH$109.DH$109.AH$109.DH$93.J15.AH$
85.KDC2DBCDC15.DH$86.D6HI15.AH$86.AH21.DH$86.AH21.AH$86.AH21.DH$86.DH
21.FH$86.AH21.DH$86.DH21.DH$86.AH21.AH$86.DH21.DH$86.AH21.DH$86.DH21.
DH$86.AH21.CH$86.DH21.DH$86.FH21.CH$86.DH21.BH$86.DH21.DH$86.AH21.DH$
86.DH21.CH$86.DH21.DH$86.DH21.DH$86.CH14.DADAD3A$86.DH14.A6HD$86.CH
14.DH4.HD$86.BH14.AH4.HC$86.DH14.D4HIHD$86.DH14.F2DADIHD$86.CH18.D2HB
15.K$3.DBCDCD77.DH18.DCDCDC3DA2DFDADADAD$3.D4HD77.DH22.15HA$3.CH2.HD
70.DADAD3A37.HD$3.DH2.HA70.A6HD37.HA$.2ADH2.HD70.DH4.HD37.HA$.AH2I2.H
D70.AH4.HC34.JAIHA$.D6HF19.I50.D4HIHD35.B2HD$.ADADADADKDADADADADADADA
DAD2A50.F2DADIHD35.2DCD$HK7.19HI54.D2HB15.K$HA81.DCDCDC3DA2DFDADADAD$
HD85.15HA$HA42.C3DAD51.HD$HD42.D4HD51.HA$HA42.CH2.HF51.HA$HD42.BH2.HD
48.JAIHA$IAI39.C2DH2.HA49.B2HD$42.DH2I2.HD49.2DCD$42.D6HA29.K$42.3ADA
DADADAD3A2DC2DBCDC3DA2DFDADADAD$41.HD7.29HA$41.HD35.HD$41.HC35.HA$41.
HD35.HA$41.HD32.JAIHA$41.HB33.B2HD$41.HC33.2DCD$41.HD$36.JAJ2.HC$37.C
H2.HD$37.DH2.HD$37.DH2.HD$35.3AH2.HA$35.DH2I2.HD$35.A6HD$35.DADADADFK
!

Code: Select all

x = 119, y = 61, rule = 2armshapeloop
98.J$95.K2DA$96.AHI$96.DH$96.DH$I13H82.DH$AF2DA3DCDCBC3DCB78.CH$I13.A
2HC78.DH$14.AHIDCD54.K2DEDM16.CH$14.AHI2HD55.A3HM16.BH$14.DH2.HD55.DH
19.CH$14.AH2.HA55.DH19.DH$14.D4HD55.2M19.DH$14.ADADFD55.M20.AH$13.HD
60.M.M18.AH$13.HA60.M13.MADADADA$13.HD74.M6HA$13.HA74.DH2.2IHA$13.HA
74.DH2.HC2D$13.HA13.I13H47.A4HB$13.HD13.AF2DA3DCDCBC3DCBCD41.3DCDC$
13.HD13.I13.A4HC57.J$13.HC27.AH2.HD54.K2DA$13.HB27.AH2.HD55.AHI$13.HC
27.D2HIHD55.DH$13.HD27.ADAIHA55.DH$13.HC26.HK.D2HD55.DH$13.HD26.I2.AD
FD8.3A2DC41.CH$13.HD41.D4HB41.DH$13.HD41.AH2.HC41.CH$13.HA41.DH2.HD
41.BH$13.HD41.A2HIHC41.CH$13.HD41.DADIHD41.DH$13.HF40.HK.F2HD41.DH$
13.HD40.I2.2DAD8.DAD3A12.IAI12.AH$13.HA42.HF11.A4HD13.DH12.AH$13.HD
42.HD11.DH2.HD13.AH12.AH$13.IAI41.HA11.AH2.HC13.DH12.DH$57.HD11.D2HIH
B13.AH12.AH$57.HA11.F2DIHC13.DH12.DH$57.HD13.A2HD13.KH12.AH$57.HA13.
3DC3DL3.GADADAD13.DH$57.HD12.HK3.2HL5.D4HA13.AH$57.HA12.HA11.FH2.HA
13.DH$57.HA12.IAI10.DH2.HA13.FH$57.HA25.D2HIHD13.DH$57.HD25.A2DIHD13.
DH$57.HD27.D2HC13.AH$57.HC27.CDCB8.CDC3D$57.HB39.B4HA$57.HC39.CH2.HD$
57.HD39.DH2.HD$57.HC39.D2HIHF$57.HD39.3AIHD$57.HD41.D2HA13.K$57.HD41.
ADADADAD3A2DCBCDC$52.JDJ2.HA45.13HD$51.2DCH2.HD57.HD$51.AHI3.HD57.HD$
51.A6HF57.IAJ$51.ADADADADK!

Brian Prentice

alexv · Post by **alexv** » October 1st, 2014, 1:34 pm

Here is minimalistic bounded version

Code: Select all

@RULE 2armshapeloop-a
1 wire
2 left signal
3 right signal
4 forward signal
5 trigger right
6 idle right
7 converter
8 lead
9 edge 1
10 edge 2
11 starter
12 tempdel
13 delall
14 boundary
@TABLE
n_states:15
neighborhood:Moore
symmetries:rotate4
Var a={0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13}
Var b={1,2,3,4,5,6}
var c={9,10}
var d={1,2,3,4,5,6,7,10,11}
var e={1,2,3,4,5,6,11}
var f={0,8,9,10,13}
var g={8,9,10}
var h={0,8,10}
var i={0,9}
var j={3,5,6}
var k={1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11}
var aa={a}
var ab={a}
var ac={a}
var ad={a}
var ae={a}
var af={a}
var ag={a}
var ba={b}
var bb={b}
var bc={b}
var bd={b}
var bd={b}
var ca={c}
var da={d}
var db={d}
var dc={d}
var dd={d}
var fa={f}
var fb={f}
var ga={g}
var gb={g}
var gc={g}
#construct left
c,0,a,8,b,2,0,0,0,8
c,2,b,0,f,fa,fb,0,0,4
c,0,a,aa,8,8,b,4,0,8
0,0,2,c,f,fa,a,aa,ab,10
0,b,ba,0,a,aa,ab,c,2,c
9,b,ba,0,a,f,fa,4,bb,0
0,0,c,2,ca,0,a,aa,ab,8
0,4,f,fa,a,aa,ab,8,b,8
#construct right
c,f,fa,8,b,j,0,0,fb,4
9,j,b,h,a,aa,ab,0,0,11
c,j,b,h,a,aa,ab,0,0,h
8,a,aa,8,b,ba,j,c,ab,c
c,f,fa,8,b,ba,bb,4,fb,8
0,f,fa,c,j,0,a,aa,ab,10
f,a,aa,fa,8,4,c,fb,ab,1
f,a,aa,h,8,8,4,fa,ab,9
#construct forward
c,0,a,8,e,4,f,fa,fb,8
c,4,e,h,a,aa,ab,f,fa,h
c,4,e,b,a,aa,ab,f,fa,0
f,fa,c,4,ca,fb,a,aa,ab,1
f,a,h,c,4,fb,aa,ab,ac,c
f,fa,4,c,h,fb,a,aa,ab,c
#tempdel
12,a,aa,ab,ac,ad,ae,af,ag,0
#arm destruction
c,b,ba,bb,bc,0,0,g,bd,12
b,0,0,ba,bb,12,g,bc,0,12
g,b,ba,12,0,0,a,aa,ab,12
b,0,0,12,0,12,g,ba,0,12
#square loop destruction
b,ba,bb,9,8,bc,0,10,bd,13
#special lead transition
c,a,aa,ca,b,ba,bb,8,ab,8
c,a,aa,8,b,ba,bb,ca,ab,8
10,8,b,ba,bb,bc,bd,8,0,8
#delete immunity
g,a,aa,ab,ac,1,b,0,ad,g
g,1,a,aa,ab,ac,ad,8,b,g
b,g,a,aa,ab,ga,8,ba,0,ba
#delete
k,13,a,aa,ab,ac,ad,ae,af,13
k,a,13,aa,ab,ac,ad,ae,af,13
k,a,aa,13,ab,ac,ad,ae,af,13
13,a,aa,ab,ac,ad,ae,af,ag,0
#trigger right
b,5,0,0,i,0,0,ba,g,6
#converter
0,b,ba,12,12,12,10,10,10,7
b,0,0,12,0,ba,bb,10,10,7
b,ba,g,6,0,7,a,0,0,5
7,5,b,0,0,0,a,aa,0,0
b,0,a,7,0,ba,8,6,0,5
7,a,aa,0,0,0,b,5,0,0
0,0,0,b,ba,0,0,12,0,7
b,0,0,12,0,12,0,ba,bb,7
11,0,0,12,0,12,ba,bb,0,7
#starter growth
1,0,a,b,aa,8,8,11,0,4
4,0,a,b,aa,8,8,11,0,1
#special signal movement
b,ba,bb,9,8,bc,0,9,12,bc
b,ba,e,8,0,bb,8,8,bc,ba
b,ba,8,0,0,bb,8,8,8,ba
b,0,0,e,8,ba,8,bb,0,bb
b,0,0,ba,g,bb,g,bc,0,bc
b,ba,9,bb,8,8,8,bc,9,ba
b,9,0,ba,8,8,8,bb,bc,bb
#signal movement
b,ba,a,aa,ab,ac,ad,g,ae,ba
b,a,aa,ab,ac,g,ga,ba,ad,ba
b,a,aa,ab,ac,ad,g,ba,ae,ba
b,0,a,aa,ab,ac,ad,g,ae,1
b,a,aa,ab,ac,g,ga,0,ad,1
b,a,aa,ab,ac,ad,g,0,ae,1
#arm obstruction detection
0,0,d,a,aa,0,g,1,ga,13
0,0,a,d,aa,0,g,1,ga,13
0,0,a,aa,d,0,g,1,ga,13
0,0,d,a,aa,0,1,g,0,13
0,0,a,aa,d,0,0,9,1,13
#starter
0,0,0,0,0,0,i,b,5,11
0,11,0,0,0,0,0,0,6,8
0,0,0,0,0,0,0,8,11,9
0,0,0,0,0,0,8,11,0,1
1,0,0,0,0,9,8,11,0,4
0,0,0,0,0,1,11,0,0,9
11,0,0,b,8,8,0,6,ba,6
@COLORS
0 0 0 0
1 255 128 0
2 255 0 0
3 0 255 0
4 0 0 255
5 0 190 0
6 0 140 0
7 255 255 255
8 80 80 80
9 95 95 95
10 128 128 128
11 0 64 0

6x6 again won

Code: Select all

x = 925, y = 1510, rule = 2armshapeloop-a
925N$N461.N461.N$N461.N461.N$N461.N461.N$N461.N461.N$N461.N461.N$N
461.N461.N$N461.N461.N$N461.N461.N$N461.N461.N$N461.N461.N$N461.N461.
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461.N461.N$N461.N461.N$N461.N461.N$N461.N461.N$N461.N461.N$N461.N461.
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461.N$N461.N461.N$N461.N461.N$N461.N461.N$N461.N461.N$N461.N461.N$N
461.N461.N$N461.N461.N$N461.N461.N$N461.N461.N$N461.N461.N$N461.N461.
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461.N$N461.N461.N$N461.N461.N$N461.N461.N$N461.N461.N$N461.N461.N$N
461.N461.N$N171.2DAC286.N461.N$N171.C2HD286.N461.N$N171.D2HA286.N461.
N$N171.D2HB286.N461.N$N171.AHI2DCD283.N461.N$N171.DHI3HA283.N461.N$N
171.EH3.HA283.N461.N$N171.A5HA283.N461.N$N171.7A283.N461.N$N461.N461.
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461.N$N461.N461.N$N461.N461.N$N461.N461.N$N461.N461.N$N461.N461.N$N
461.N461.N$N461.N461.N$N461.N461.N$N461.N461.N$N461.N461.N$N461.N461.
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461.N$N461.N461.N$N461.N461.N$N461.N461.N$N461.N461.N$N461.N461.N$N
461.N461.N$N461.N461.N$N461.N461.N$N461.N461.N$N461.N461.N$N461.N461.
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461.N$N461.N461.N$N461.N461.N$N461.N461.N$N461.N461.N$N461.N461.N$N
461.N461.N$N461.N461.N$N461.N461.N$N461.N461.N$N461.N461.N$N461.N461.
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461.N$N461.N461.N$N461.N461.N$N461.N461.N$N461.N461.N$N461.N461.N$N
461.N461.N$N461.N461.N$N461.N461.N$N461.N461.N$N461.N461.N$N461.N461.
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461.N$N461.N461.N$N923.N$N923.N$N923.N$N690.6A227.N$N690.E4HA227.N$N
690.D4HA227.N$N690.D2HD2A227.N$N690.D2HC229.N$N690.CDCB229.N$N923.N$N
923.N$N923.N$N923.N$N923.N$N923.N$N923.N$N923.N$N923.N$N923.N$N923.N$
N923.N$N923.N$N923.N$N923.N$N923.N$N923.N$N923.N$N923.N$N923.N$N923.N
$N923.N$N923.N$N923.N$N923.N$N923.N$N923.N$N923.N$N923.N$N923.N$N923.
N$N923.N$N923.N$N923.N$N923.N$N923.N$N923.N$N923.N$N923.N$N923.N$N
923.N$N461.N461.N$N461.N461.N$N461.N461.N$N461.N461.N$N461.N461.N$N
461.N461.N$N461.N461.N$N461.N461.N$N461.N461.N$N461.N461.N$N218.2AED
239.N461.N$N218.A2HA239.N461.N$N218.A2HD239.N461.N$N218.A2HD239.N461.
N$N218.AHI2DCD236.N461.N$N218.AHI3HD236.N461.N$N218.AH3.HD236.N461.N$
N218.AH3.HC236.N461.N$N218.A5HA236.N461.N$N218.ADC2DBD236.N461.N$N
461.N461.N$N461.N461.N$N461.N461.N$N461.N461.N$N461.N461.N$N461.N461.
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461.N$N461.N461.N$N461.N461.N$N461.N461.N$N461.N461.N$N461.N461.N$N
461.N461.N$N461.N461.N$N461.N461.N$N461.N461.N$N461.N461.N$N461.N461.
N$N461.N461.N$N461.N461.N$N461.N461.N$N461.N461.N$N461.N461.N$N461.N
461.N$N461.N461.N$N461.N461.N$N461.N461.N$N461.N461.N$N461.N461.N$N
461.N461.N$N461.N461.N$N461.N461.N$N461.N461.N$N461.N461.N$N461.N461.
N$N461.N461.N$N461.N461.N$N461.N461.N$N461.N461.N$N461.N461.N$N461.N
461.N$N461.N461.N$N461.N461.N$N461.N461.N$N461.N461.N$N461.N461.N$N
461.N461.N$N461.N461.N$N461.N461.N$N461.N461.N$N461.N461.N$N461.N461.
N$N461.N461.N$N461.N461.N$N461.N461.N$N461.N461.N$N461.N461.N$N461.N
461.N$N461.N461.N$N461.N461.N$N376.DA2D81.N461.N$N376.A2HC81.N461.N$N
376.A2HB81.N461.N$N376.AHID81.N461.N$N376.CHIDCD79.N461.N$N376.AHI2HA
79.N461.N$N376.DH2.HA79.N461.N$N376.EH2.HA79.N461.N$N376.A4HA79.N461.
N$N376.6A79.N461.N$N461.N461.N$N461.N461.N$N461.N461.N$N461.N461.N$N
461.N461.N$N461.N461.N$N461.N461.N$N461.N461.N$N461.N461.N$N461.N461.
N$N461.N461.N$N461.N461.N$N461.N461.N$N461.N461.N$N461.N461.N$N461.N
461.N$N461.N461.N$N461.N461.N$925N!

Alexander

Scorbie · Post by **Scorbie** » October 1st, 2014, 2:37 pm

It's interesting to see that the 6x6 loop produces larger mutants. (Cannot beat the 6x6 though.)
This lasted for quite some time against the 6x6.

Code: Select all

x = 15, y = 7, rule = 2armshapeloop-a
2.D3AD$2.C3HD$BCDH.HD$AH2I.HF$A5HA7.I$7AKADADADA$7.7HI!

This appears spontaneously (but once in a while)

Code: Select all

x = 8, y = 6, rule = 2armshapeloop-a
4D$C2HD$DHIE4A$DHIHJHJA$D6HA$CDCB4A!

This loop does not last long, but is interesting.

Code: Select all

x = 20, y = 14, rule = 2armshapeloop-a
6.G$2.DAD2A$2.A3HA$2.DH.HB$2.AH.HC$2.DH.HD$2.AH.HC$2.DH.HD$2.AH.HA$DA
DH.HA$FH2I.HA$D5HD12.I$2D3A3D3A3DFDAD2A$7.12HI!

c0b0p0 · Post by **c0b0p0** » October 2nd, 2014, 10:48 pm

Scorbie wrote:Cannot beat the 6x6 though.

The dismal tide (7x7) can easily beat the 6x6 loop.

Code: Select all

x = 208, y = 174, rule = 2armshapeloop-a
38.33N$36.2N33.7N$34.2N42.7N$33.N51.8N$31.2N60.6N$30.N68.4N$29.N73.4N
$28.N78.4N$27.N83.4N$26.N88.3N$25.N92.3N$24.N96.3N28.16N$23.N100.2N
24.2N16.5N$22.N103.2N20.2N23.4N$21.N106.4N14.2N29.2N$20.N111.3N9.2N
33.N$19.N115.3N4.2N36.2N$18.N119.4N40.N$17.N121.N43.N$16.N121.N45.2N$
15.N121.N48.N$15.N121.N49.N$14.N121.N51.2N$14.N121.N53.N$13.N122.N54.
N$13.N122.N21.A2DCD29.N$13.N122.N21.C3HA29.N$12.N122.N22.AH.H3A28.N$
12.N122.N22.AH2.2HD29.N$12.N122.N22.A4HJA30.N$11.N122.N23.BAC2AFD31.N
$11.N122.N23.G38.N$10.N123.N62.N$10.N122.N64.N$10.N122.N65.N$9.N123.N
66.N$9.N122.N68.N$9.N122.N69.N$8.N122.N70.N$8.N122.N71.N$8.N122.N72.N
$7.N123.N73.N$7.N122.N74.N$7.N122.N75.N$6.N123.N75.N$6.N123.N75.N$5.N
123.N77.N$5.N123.N77.N$5.N123.N77.N$4.N124.N77.N$4.N124.N77.N$4.N124.
N77.N$4.N123.N78.N$4.N123.N78.N$3.N124.N78.N$3.N124.N78.N$3.N124.N77.
N$3.N124.N77.N$3.N123.N77.2N$3.N123.N76.N$3.N123.N76.N$2.N124.N75.N$
2.N124.N75.N$2.N123.N75.N$2.N123.N75.N$2.N123.N75.N$2.N123.N74.N$2.N
123.N74.N$.N123.N75.N$.N123.N74.N$.N123.N74.N$.N123.N74.N$.N123.N73.N
$.N123.N73.N$.N123.N73.N$.N124.N71.N$.N124.N71.N$N126.N70.N$N126.N69.
N$N126.N69.N$N82.6A38.N69.N$N82.E4HA39.2N67.N$N82.D4HA40.N66.N$N82.D
2HD2A41.N65.N$N82.D2HC109.N$.N81.CDCB109.N$.N193.N$.N192.N$.N191.N$.N
191.N$.N191.N$.N191.N$.N191.N$.N191.N$.N191.N$.N191.N$2.N190.N$2.N
190.N$2.N189.N$2.N189.N$2.N189.N$2.N189.N$3.N188.N$3.N188.N$3.N188.N$
3.N124.N63.N$3.N124.N62.N$3.N123.N63.N$4.N122.N63.N$4.N121.N64.N$4.N
120.N65.N$4.N120.N64.N$4.N119.N65.N$4.N118.N66.N$4.N118.N65.2N$4.N
116.2N66.N$5.N115.N66.N$5.N115.N66.N$5.N115.N66.N$5.N115.N66.N$5.N
115.N65.N$5.N115.N65.N$5.N115.N65.N$5.N115.N64.N$6.N114.N64.N$6.N114.
N64.N$6.N114.N63.N$6.N114.N63.N$7.N113.N63.N$7.N113.N62.N$8.N113.N61.
N$8.N113.N61.N$8.N113.N61.N$9.N112.N60.N$9.N113.N59.N$10.N112.N59.N$
10.N112.N58.N$11.N111.N57.N$12.N110.2N56.N$13.N109.2N55.N$14.N109.N
54.N$15.N108.N53.N$16.N107.2N52.N$17.N107.N52.N$18.N106.2N50.N$19.N
106.N50.N$20.N105.N50.N$21.N104.2N48.N$22.N103.2N48.N$22.N103.2N48.N$
23.N102.N.N46.N$24.N101.N.N46.N$25.N99.N2.N46.N$26.N98.N3.N45.N$27.
20N77.N4.N44.N$47.6N70.N6.N43.N$53.5N62.3N7.N43.N$58.3N57.2N11.N42.N$
61.4N51.2N13.N41.N$65.3N46.2N16.N40.N$68.2N40.4N19.N38.N$70.2N35.3N
24.N37.N$72.2N31.2N27.N36.2N$74.3N26.2N30.N34.N$77.2N22.2N33.N32.N$
79.3N17.2N36.2N30.N$82.17N40.N28.N$140.N26.N$141.N24.N$142.N22.N$143.
2N17.3N$145.N13.3N$146.N7.5N$147.7N!

c0b0p0 · Post by **c0b0p0** » October 4th, 2014, 11:21 pm

pi_guy314 wrote:... every loop grow a second arm.

In your rule, it turns out that there is a naturally-occurring loop which does not grow a second arm. No instances of the loop grow a second arm.

Code: Select all

x = 17, y = 8, rule = 2armshapeloop-a
5.G$AC2DAD$A4HA$AH2.HD$DH.2HA10.I$A2HD3A2DCBAFDADA$D2HD2.10HI$FABC!

Tezcatlipoca · Post by **Tezcatlipoca** » October 5th, 2014, 4:55 pm

Scorbie wrote:My suggestion (for a big loop in shapeloop to survive) is the ability to make new colonies(and run away). Sadly I'm not sure whether this would work, and this cannot be tested in small bounded grids.

I have several strains that exhibit some degree of colony formation:

This zig-zag that reminds me of a tetris block (Google tells me it is a form of "Tetrimino", so we can call it that in our conversation if you like) seems to form short range colonies on the outside like "budding" from the main formation. It does so fairly often. It also mutates pretty easily. You will see star shapes and more circular shapes quickly form.

Code: Select all

x = 6, y = 11, rule = shapeloop

2.2ADA$2.A2HA$2.A2HA$ACA2HA$D2H.HA$AHJ2HC$D2H3A$A2HA$DJHD$ADFB$G!

Interestingly this "2D Replicator" hijacks beams produced by other interfaces for longer range colony formation (I haven't noticed if this is produced by close relatives, though that would make most sense to my mind):

Code: Select all

x = 17, y = 10, rule = shapeloop:P1400,880

2.4A$2.C2HA$2.AHJ3AD$3AHJ2HJB$AH2J.I2HF$D3HJH2AD$FBDAJHA$3.A2HA9.I$3.

2ACAC4ADBFDA$7.9HI!

This shape "forms colonies" of a different type, if you want to call it that. It may not be suitable for your purposes (but I will add it anyway just in case). In a bounded area you will find that they form into a regular pattern of squares that interact at the corners and sometimes along the borders.

Code: Select all

x = 7, y = 9, rule = shapeloop:P8400,5280

C2DCA$D3HA$BH.HD$AH.HADA$CH2.2HD$AH3.HA$D5HD$ADADFDA$G!

I have this marked as "colony formation" however I do not remember much about it and I cannot see easy evidence quickly when running it. Maybe you will have better luck. It could be that it forms colonies within the formation and not outside; I did see some evidence of that.

Code: Select all

x = 6, y = 8, rule = shapeloop

5.G$CDCDBE$A2H2JA$DHI2HA$A2H2AD$DHJD$A2HC$2DCD!

This 32X32, squarish pattern with a complex "3-stage" life cycle, forms medium range colonies readily and quickly.

Code: Select all

x = 32, y = 32, rule = shapeloop

2.ADADAC3AD17A$2.D25HB$2.AH23.HEDAD$DADH24.3HA$A2H27.HD$DH28.HA$AH28.

HD$DH28.HA$AH28.HD$DH28.HA$AH28.HD$DH28.HA$AH28.HD$DH28.HA$AH28.HD$DH

28.HA$AH28.HD$DH28.HA$AH28.HD$DH28.HA$AH28.HD$DH28.HA$AH28.HD$DH28.HA

$AH28.HD$AH28.HA$AH28.HD$AH27.2HA$A3H24.HDAD$4AH23.HA$3.A25HD$3.7AD3A

CADADADADADADADA!

This "growing sliver" exhibits complex behavior especially when taken and multiplied and rotated to allow for it to interact with itself. It is another that "forms colonies" of itself in another sense. I hoped its layered walls might allow for protection of shapes inside of it on the larger scale. However I have not succeeded with that experiment thus far.

Code: Select all

x = 27, y = 94, rule = shapeloop

ADAD$D2HA$A2HD$AHJADAD$AHJ3HA$B2H2.HD$ACAH.HADA$2.DH2.2HC$2.AH3.HA$2.

DH3.HB$2.AH3.HA$2.DH3.H2AD$2.AH4.2HA$2.DH5.HD$2.AH5.HA$2.DH5.HD$2.AH

5.HA$2.DH5.HDAD$2.A2H5.2HA$2.DADH5.HD$4.AH5.HA$4.DH5.HD$4.AH5.HA$4.AH

5.HC$4.AH5.HABA$4.BH6.2HA$4.AH7.HA$4.CH7.HD$4.AH7.HA$4.DH7.HD$4.A2H6.

HA$4.DADH5.HD$6.AH5.HADA$6.DH6.2HD$6.AH7.HA$6.DH7.HD$6.AH7.HA$6.DH7.H

C$6.AH7.HA$6.DH7.HB$6.AH7.HA$6.D2H6.H2AD$6.ADAH6.2HA$8.DH7.HD$8.AH7.H

A$8.AH7.HD$8.AH7.HA$8.BH7.HD$8.AH7.HA$8.CH7.HD$8.AH7.HA$8.D2H6.HCAB$

8.ADAH6.2HA$10.DH7.HA$10.AH7.HA$10.DH7.HD$10.AH7.HA$10.DH7.HD$10.AH7.

HA$10.DH7.HD$10.A2H6.HA$10.DADH5.HD$12.AH5.HACA$12.DH6.2HB$12.AH7.HA$

12.DH7.HA$12.AH7.HA$12.DH7.HD$12.A2H6.HA$12.2ABH5.HD$14.AH5.HA$14.CH

5.HD$14.AH5.HA$14.DH5.HC$14.AH5.HAB2AD$14.D2H5.4HC$14.ADAH7.HA$16.DH

7.HD$16.AH7.HA$16.DH7.HB$16.AH7.HD$16.D2H6.HC$16.ADAH5.HA$18.DH5.HD$

18.AH5.HA$18.DH5.HA$18.A2H4.HE$18.DADH3.HD$20.AH3.HA$20.D3HIHA$20.3AB

IHA$23.A2HD$23.C2HA$23.ADAD!

I have a few others including a somewhat successful attempt to select for colony formation simultaneously in 10 or so various shapes so ask if there's interest!

Tezcatlipoca · Post by **Tezcatlipoca** » October 5th, 2014, 5:19 pm

As for testing colony formation in a bounded system, perhaps a large gated grid (something like the following that comes from my as of yet unsuccessful attempts for a "speciation cage" with self-healing walls) may help.

Code: Select all

x = 701, y = 701, rule = shapeloop-b

701N$NJC28JB28JC28JB26JNJC28JB28JC28JB28JC28JB28JC28JB26JNJC28JB28JC

28JB26JNJC28JB28JC28JB28JC28JB28JC28JB28JCJN$NCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBC

BCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCB

CBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCNCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBC

BCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCB

CBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBC

BCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCNCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCB

CBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBC

BCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCNCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCB

CBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBC

BCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCB

CBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCBCN$NJCB27JBC27J

CB26JCB26JNJCB27JBC27JCB26JCB28JCB27JBC26JBC27JCB26JNJCB27JBC27JCB26J

CB26JNJCB27JBC27JCB26JCB28JCB27JBC26JBC27JCB27JBCJN$NJBJ8N10.8NJCJ8N

10.8NJBJ8N10.8NJCJ8N10.8NJBJ8N10.8NJCJ8N10.8NJBJ8N10.8NJCJ8N10.8NJBJ

8N10.8NJCJ8N10.8NJBJ8N10.8NJCJ8N10.8NJBJ8N10.8NJCJ8N10.8NJBJ8N10.8NJC

J8N10.8NJBJ8N10.8NJCJ8N10.8NJBJ8N10.8NJCJ8N10.8NJBJ8N10.8NJCJ8N10.8NJ

BJ8N10.8NJCJ8N10.8NJBJN$NJCJN111.NJCJN111.NJCJN111.NJCJN111.NJCJN111.

NJCJN111.NJCJN$NJBJN111.NJBJN111.NJBJN111.NJBJN111.NJBJN111.NJBJN111.

NJBJN$NJCJN111.NJCJN111.NJCJN111.NJCJN111.NJCJN111.NJCJN111.NJCJN$NJB

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minossama · Post by **minossama** » October 5th, 2014, 10:10 pm

I've been reading about shapeloop and other loop rules, these are really interesting. Can anyone point me in the direction of figuring out how these rules work though? All I can find is a two-minute youtube video explaining Langton's loops. Anyone know where I can find out how these rules work?

c0b0p0 · Post by **c0b0p0** » October 5th, 2014, 10:38 pm

c0b0p0 wrote:
Scorbie wrote:Cannot beat the 6x6 though.
The dismal tide (7x7) can easily beat the 6x6 loop.

Here is the corrected pattern.

Code: Select all

x = 208, y = 174, rule = 2armshapeloop-a
38.33N$36.2N33.7N$34.2N42.7N$33.N51.8N$31.2N60.6N$30.N68.4N$29.N73.4N
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55.N$13.N122.N55.N$12.N122.N57.N$12.N122.N58.N$12.N122.N59.N$11.N122.
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115.N65.N$5.N115.N65.N$5.N115.N65.N$5.N115.N64.N$6.N114.N64.N$6.N114.
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N$8.N113.N61.N$8.N113.N61.N$9.N112.N60.N$9.N113.N59.N$10.N112.N59.N$
10.N112.N58.N$11.N111.N57.N$12.N110.2N56.N$13.N109.2N55.N$14.N109.N
54.N$15.N108.N53.N$16.N107.2N52.N$17.N107.N52.N$18.N106.2N50.N$19.N
106.N50.N$20.N105.N50.N$21.N104.2N48.N$22.N103.2N48.N$22.N103.2N48.N$
23.N102.N.N46.N$24.N101.N.N46.N$25.N99.N2.N46.N$26.N98.N3.N45.N$27.
20N77.N4.N44.N$47.6N70.N6.N43.N$53.5N62.3N7.N43.N$58.3N57.2N11.N42.N$
61.4N51.2N13.N41.N$65.3N46.2N16.N40.N$68.2N40.4N19.N38.N$70.2N35.3N
24.N37.N$72.2N31.2N27.N36.2N$74.3N26.2N30.N34.N$77.2N22.2N33.N32.N$
79.3N17.2N36.2N30.N$82.17N40.N28.N$140.N26.N$141.N24.N$142.N22.N$143.
2N17.3N$145.N13.3N$146.N7.5N$147.7N!

Tezcatlipoca · Post by **Tezcatlipoca** » October 5th, 2014, 11:27 pm

minossama, welcome! I don't know that I can help much, as I haven't delved deep into rule creation (however I will be watching responses to your question closely as I very much want to create a more biologically realistic derivative on a fundamental level in some specific ways). Toward answering you, I have been pointed to Golly's considerable on-board documentation a number of times when I've asked questions. Have you checked it out? It's a nice surprise; it is much more comprehensive and helpful than your average program's documentation. It's available online here http://golly.sourceforge.net/Help/formats.html#rule. And hopefully beyond that someone more knowledgeable will chime in with more specific and in depth resources.

And one more time, welcome. Hope you'll stay along with the rest of the ad-hoc group that's sprung up on this subject. Call me crazy, but be it my naivety and enthusiasm in the subject and the community, the people posting and the dynamic between them, the novelty and relevance of material posted, or more likely a combination of those; I can't shake the feeling that I'm participating here in the "start of something" and more than that something exciting.

Tezcatlipoca · Post by **Tezcatlipoca** » October 5th, 2014, 11:39 pm

c0b0p0 wrote:
c0b0p0 wrote:
Scorbie wrote:Cannot beat the 6x6 though.
The dismal tide (7x7) can easily beat the 6x6 loop.

c0b0p0, thanks for demonstrating that. And if we are still interested in dismal tide, I have another more stable and efficient variant that, if I may be permitted to name another thing in my non official capacity, we should call "rebel tide" in gloating reference to my Alma Mater's college football win over Alabama's Crimson Tide this weekend!

ConwayLife.com

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