They attached sulfite to sulfate, which also resulted in two extra electrons.
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Schiaparelliorbust
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Re: Let's create an alien biosphere!
And how does that oxidize sulfur dioxide?MathAndCode wrote: February 26th, 2021, 3:39 pm They attached sulfite to sulfate, which also resulted in two extra electrons.
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The sulfur atom in sulfite donates a lone pair to an oxygen atom in sulfate, resulting in a single bond.
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Re: Let's create an alien biosphere!
And this then somehow forms sulfuric acid.MathAndCode wrote: February 26th, 2021, 4:50 pm The sulfur atom in sulfite donates a lone pair to an oxygen atom in sulfate, resulting in a single bond.
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The hydrons don't have to be attached to the sulfate in order for the solution to be acidic.
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Schiaparelliorbust
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Re: Let's create an alien biosphere!
Where did the hydrons come from?MathAndCode wrote: February 26th, 2021, 6:00 pm The hydrons don't have to be attached to the sulfate in order for the solution to be acidic.
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electrostatic attraction
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Oh ok. All that matters is that this creates sulfuric acid, right? Correct me if I'm mistaken, my chemistry is terrible.
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Yes, it's equivalent to a sulfuric acid solution.Schiaparelliorbust wrote: February 26th, 2021, 6:41 pmOh ok. All that matters is that this creates sulfuric acid, right? Correct me if I'm mistaken, my chemistry is terrible.
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And this forms naturally, so both predators and prey will both be used to acidic conditions, but it will still denature the protein spikes, right?
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Yes, although come to think of it, I'm not sure how acidic the solution will be. I suppose that it depends on the concentration of sulfuric acid/bisulfate/sulfate.Schiaparelliorbust wrote: February 27th, 2021, 6:48 pmAnd this forms naturally, so both predators and prey will both be used to acidic conditions, but it will still denature the protein spikes, right?
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Wouldn't the naturally occuring acid denature the protein spikes actually?MathAndCode wrote: February 27th, 2021, 6:49 pm Yes, although come to think of it, I'm not sure how acidic the solution will be. I suppose that it depends on the concentration of sulfuric acid/bisulfate/sulfate.
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No because they would have evolved to handle that level of acidity.Schiaparelliorbust wrote: February 27th, 2021, 6:51 pmWouldn't the naturally occuring acid denature the protein spikes actually?
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Would the secreted sulfuric acid then kill the prey?MathAndCode wrote: February 27th, 2021, 7:45 pm No because they would have evolved to handle that level of acidity.
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That depends on how acidic the solution would be relative to the natural environment.Schiaparelliorbust wrote: February 28th, 2021, 12:18 pmWould the secreted sulfuric acid then kill the prey?
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If it's enough to denature the protein spikes then it may be lethal. I'm not entirely sure though.MathAndCode wrote: February 28th, 2021, 12:21 pm That depends on how acidic the solution would be relative to the natural environment.
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I'm not sure that the concentration of sulfate will be large enough for that to happen.Schiaparelliorbust wrote: February 28th, 2021, 1:13 pmIf it's enough to denature the protein spikes then it may be lethal. I'm not entirely sure though.
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Ok, let's go wiith what you say here.
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Do you have any other ideas?
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I can't think of any other way to neutralize the spikes, so no.
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Possibilities include excreting a small molecule that can denature the spikes and the cell membrane evolving to be resistant to the spikes. Neither seems very likely, though.Schiaparelliorbust wrote: February 28th, 2021, 1:59 pmI can't think of any other way to neutralize the spikes, so no.
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I don't know too much about the former, but something like a double membrane sounds unlikely (unless you can think of some way it could evolve), so let's just go with the sulfuric acid.MathAndCode wrote: February 28th, 2021, 2:32 pm Possibilities include excreting a small molecule that can denature the spikes and the cell membrane evolving to be resistant to the spikes. Neither seems very likely, though.
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The membranes are naturally double because phospholipids have a hydrophilic part and hydrophobic part, but that means that the spike proteins would already work on double membranes.Schiaparelliorbust wrote: February 28th, 2021, 3:36 pmI don't know too much about the former, but something like a double membrane sounds unlikely (unless you can think of some way it could evolve), so let's just go with the sulfuric acid.
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Do you think they could perhaps repair torn membranes? They could send a vesicle (which I think would be pulled in the direction of the tear because of stuff moving outside) and it would fuse with the membrane fixing the tear.MathAndCode wrote: February 28th, 2021, 3:44 pm The membranes are naturally double because phospholipids have a hydrophilic part and hydrophobic part, but that means that the spike proteins would already work on double membranes.
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They'd have to evolve a way to do that anyway because their membranes would accumulate wear and tear over time even without predation. However, it probably wouldn't be fast enough.Schiaparelliorbust wrote: March 1st, 2021, 9:19 amDo you think they could perhaps repair torn membranes? They could send a vesicle (which I think would be pulled in the direction of the tear because of stuff moving outside) and it would fuse with the membrane fixing the tear.
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