Thread for basic questions

[Hunting]

The HighLife replicator is an XOR puffer. The linear propagator is only a replicator in the sense that it constructs itself, similar to some other UC-replicators (like the one in JvN29).

A better description of puffer is mobile patterns that only leaves pable statterns, or in some cases a spaceship+oscillators hybrid debris, although the latter is more often referred to a dirty rake. Chaotic "puffers" are not strictly puffers.

A broader definition that would include the example I gave would be a pattern which moves at a constant speed and periodically emits the same debris, though the debris doesn't necessarily have to become periodic itself. I also consider spaceship + oscillators/still lives to be stable.

What would the "puffer"'s period be, then?

[Schiaparelliorbust]

What would the "puffer"'s period be, then?

I guess the period of a spaceship based on the puffer where you would remove anything permanently "detached" from the puffer.

[goldenratio]

Asked this in the discord but got no responses, so

Why are 1-2-3 variants so much rarer than stillator variants on Catagolue despite both being 3 cell rotors? There seems to be only one natural 1-2-3 variant (https://catagolue.hatsya.com/object/xp3 ... 1226/b3s23) but hundreds of natural stillator variants.

[C28]

question:
does every known (and notable) pattern have a known glider synthesis?

[MathAndCode]

question:
does every known (and notable) pattern have a known glider synthesis?

No. Sir Robin's one example. If you're wondering whether or not you can help, keep in mind that many still lifes, including useful catalysts, have converter-based syntheses but have since turned up in soups that would likely allow more efficient soup-based syntheses. Just a few days ago, I synthesized the BTS and a variant with soup-based syntheses with fewer gliders than the previous converter-based syntheses. If you want to help, this page has many useful tips.

[Hunting]

What would the "puffer"'s period be, then?

I guess the period of a spaceship based on the puffer where you would remove anything permanently "detached" from the puffer.

That's not the definition of puffer period. With your definition, Puffer 2 is p4.

[toroidalet]

Regarding puffers, my suggestion would be to either call non-stabilizing puffers something like "non-stabilizing/non-periodic/exploding/chaotic puffers" or just don't even both putting them into the puffer category. Why do they need to be called puffers anyway?
The biggest objection to calling them puffers is things like the lightspeed "puffers" at the corners of explosions in B2a rules.
Also, the detached period of Puffer 2 is 20 (this concept is also somewhat problematic, as shown by the previous counterexample).

Also, given any pattern in life, it's possible to find an explicit glider collision (and even one with only 17 gliders) that eventually stabilizes into a given pattern iff that pattern has a synthesis.
What it does is run through an enumeration of all syntheses (or reverse caber tossers or binary slow salvos or regular slow salvos or single-channel recipes or Gemini collisions or whatever), running the first n ones for n generations (then starting over and running the first n+1 for n+1 generations) until it finds one that constructs the desired pattern. Or maybe you could have it produce Turing-machine simulators of each universal class of syntheses with each one in its own row.
Unfortunately, this "solution" is extremely massive and while it could probably be constructed, it wouldn't be worth the effort.

[m00sehead]

I noticed that all of the first spaceships (lwss, mwss, hwss) all extend in the same way. If I am correct, the reason it can't go further is because of the blocks at the top that are not in the lightweight spaceship. Is there anyway to get a second ship (does not have to be the same kind) to stabilize it, so that when the blocks on top will not ruin the pattern? To be more specific, I am talking about the spark at the top.

[toroidalet]

The Overweight spaceship is known, as are ways to stabilize it. The wiki page does not mention this, but it can be supported with a fixed width as well:

Do we have some updated answers to this question? It will make its way to the OWSS article.

E.g. width 31 possible:

Code: Select all

x = 29, y = 113, rule = B3/S23
8bo13bo$7b3o11b3o$6b2o2bo3b3o3b2obo$6b2ob3o2bo2bo2bo$6b2o2b2o2bo7b3o$
10b2o2bo4b6o$6b2o6bo5b2obo$11bo2bo4b2o$10bo3bo$10bo3bo$14bo$11bo2bo4bo
$4b3o3b3obo3b3o3b3o$4bo2bo2bob3o5b2o2bo2bo$4bo6b2obo2bo2b2o2bo$4bo4b3o
2bo2bo2b2o2bo3bo$4bo4b3o2bo9bo$5bob2o2bo2bo4bo5bobo$9bobo2bo4b4o$10bo
3bo6b2o$8bobo3bo4b3o$2b3o4b3o2bo11b3o$bo2bo3bob2o2bo3bo6bo2bo$4bo4b2o
3bo6b3o4bo$o3bo4bo4bo6b4o3bo$o3bo4b2o3bo6b4o3bo$4bo4b3o2bo6b3o4bo$bobo
5b3o2bo6b3obobo$9b2o3bo6b2o$14bo$14bo$11bo2bo4bo$4b3o3b3obo3b3o3b3o$4b
o2bo2bob3o5b2o2bo2bo$4bo6b2obo2bo2b2o2bo$4bo4b3o2bo2bo2b2o2bo3bo$4bo4b
3o2bo9bo$5bob2o2bo2bo4bo5bobo$9bobo2bo4b4o$10bo3bo6b2o$8bobo3bo4b3o$2b
3o4b3o2bo11b3o$bo2bo3bob2o2bo3bo6bo2bo$4bo4b2o3bo6b3o4bo$o3bo4bo4bo6b
4o3bo$o3bo4b2o3bo6b4o3bo$4bo4b3o2bo6b3o4bo$bobo5b3o2bo6b3obobo$9b2o3bo
6b2o$14bo$14bo$11bo2bo4bo$4b3o3b3obo3b3o3b3o$4bo2bo2bob3o5b2o2bo2bo$4b
o6b2obo2bo2b2o2bo$4bo4b3o2bo2bo2b2o2bo3bo$4bo4b3o2bo9bo$5bob2o2bo2bo4b
o5bobo$9bobo2bo4b4o$10bo3bo6b2o$8bobo3bo4b3o$2b3o4b3o2bo11b3o$bo2bo3bo
b2o2bo3bo6bo2bo$4bo4b2o3bo6b3o4bo$o3bo4bo4bo6b4o3bo$o3bo4b2o3bo6b4o3bo
$4bo4b3o2bo6b3o4bo$bobo5b3o2bo6b3obobo$9b2o3bo6b2o$14bo$14bo$11bo2bo4b
o$4b3o3b3obo3b3o3b3o$4bo2bo2bob3o5b2o2bo2bo$4bo6b2obo2bo2b2o2bo$4bo4b
3o2bo2bo2b2o2bo3bo$4bo4b3o2bo9bo$5bob2o2bo2bo4bo5bobo$9bobo2bo4b4o$10b
o3bo6b2o$8bobo3bo4b3o$2b3o4b3o2bo11b3o$bo2bo3bob2o2bo3bo6bo2bo$4bo4b2o
3bo6b3o4bo$o3bo4bo4bo6b4o3bo$o3bo4b2o3bo6b4o3bo$4bo4b3o2bo6b3o4bo$bobo
5b3o2bo6b3obobo$9b2o3bo6b2o$14bo$14bo$11bo2bo4bo$4b3o3b3obo3b3o3b3o$4b
o2bo2bob3o5b2o2bo2bo$4bo6b2obo2bo2b2o2bo$4bo4b3o2bo2bo2b2o2bo3bo$4bo4b
3o2bo9bo$5bob2o2bo2bo4bo5bobo$9bobo2bo4b4o$10bo3bo6b2o$8bobo3bo4b3o$2b
3o4b3o2bo11b3o$bo2bo3bob2o2bo3bo6bo2bo$4bo4b2o3bo6b3o4bo$o3bo4bo4bo6b
4o3bo$o3bo4b2o3bo6b4o3bo$4bo4b3o2bo6b3o4bo$bobo5b3o2bo6b3obobo$9b2o3bo
6b2o$14bo$14bo$14bo$15bobo!

Assuming you consider the inner three columns as fixed this is a thinnest result (14 more columns, other variants of *WSS-looking tail interactions possible) starting from the two row slice I chose. It's of course possible there are thinner repeating options that don't pass through that two row slice.

[MathAndCode]

Is there any way to get Catagolue to return syntheses with intermediate stages that contain long boats?

[bubblegum]

Is there any way to get Catagolue to return syntheses with intermediate stages that contain long boats?

No, why? (There's probably something you can hack together to browse Shinjuku for it, but that's not Catagolue.)

[MathAndCode]

No, why? (There's probably something you can hack together to browse Shinjuku for it, but that's not Catagolue.)

There's a trick for synthesizing long boats more efficiently that I found recently. I want to gauge how widely known it is, and if it's not well-known, then I want to improve the relevant syntheses.

[creeperman7002]

What is the longest-lived polyomino of size 8 and up?

For size 5, it's obviously this (1103 gens):

Code: Select all

x = 3, y = 3, rule = B3/S23
b2o$2o$bo!

Size 6 (1102 gens):

Code: Select all

x = 3, y = 3, rule = B3/S23
3o$2bo$b2o!

Size 7 (1108 gens):

Code: Select all

x = 3, y = 5, rule = B3/S23
2bo$b2o$bo$bo$2o!

[ColorfulGalaxy]

What is the longest-lived polyomino of size 8 and up?

For size 5, it's obviously this (1103 gens):

Code: Select all

x = 3, y = 3, rule = B3/S23
b2o$2o$bo!

Size 6 (1102 gens):

Code: Select all

x = 3, y = 3, rule = B3/S23
3o$2bo$b2o!

Size 7 (1108 gens):

Code: Select all

x = 3, y = 5, rule = B3/S23
2bo$b2o$bo$bo$2o!

I'm working on a list on the wiki about polyominoes.

[Donald K Trump]

What is the longest-lived polyomino of size 8 and up?

For size 5, it's obviously this (1103 gens):

Code: Select all

x = 3, y = 3, rule = B3/S23
b2o$2o$bo!

Size 6 (1102 gens):

Code: Select all

x = 3, y = 3, rule = B3/S23
3o$2bo$b2o!

Size 7 (1108 gens):

Code: Select all

x = 3, y = 5, rule = B3/S23
2bo$b2o$bo$bo$2o!

I'm working on a list on the wiki about polyominoes.

What about polyplets?

[Donald K Trump]

Can unit Life cells simulate Viewer scripts?

[Schiaparelliorbust]

How hard would it be to find a diagonally moving negative spaceship in the zebra stripes agar or one moving in a different agar?
Edit: To clarify, by the one in a different agar, I mean one that moves along the same symmetry of the agar itself, like orthogonal in a chicken wire agar or diagonal in the p14 herringbone agar:

Code: Select all

x = 48, y = 48, rule = B3/S23:T48,48
2o5bo5bo2bo2bo2bob2o5bo5bo2bo2bo2bo$4b3o3b3o3bo2bo2bo5b3o3b3o3bo2bo2bo
$3bo2bo2bo2bob2o5bo5bo2bo2bo2bob2o5bo$3o3bo2bo2bo5b3o3b3o3bo2bo2bo5b3o
$2bob2o5bo5bo2bo2bo2bob2o5bo5bo2bo2bo$2bo5b3o3b3o3bo2bo2bo5b3o3b3o3bo
2bo$bo5bo2bo2bo2bob2o5bo5bo2bo2bo2bob2o$o3b3o3bo2bo2bo5b3o3b3o3bo2bo2b
o5b2o$o2bo2bob2o5bo5bo2bo2bo2bob2o5bo5bo$o2bo2bo5b3o3b3o3bo2bo2bo5b3o
3b3o$5bo5bo2bo2bo2bob2o5bo5bo2bo2bo2bob2o$2b3o3b3o3bo2bo2bo5b3o3b3o3bo
2bo2bo$bo2bo2bo2bob2o5bo5bo2bo2bo2bob2o5bo$o3bo2bo2bo5b3o3b3o3bo2bo2bo
5b3o3b2o$ob2o5bo5bo2bo2bo2bob2o5bo5bo2bo2bo$o5b3o3b3o3bo2bo2bo5b3o3b3o
3bo2bo$5bo2bo2bo2bob2o5bo5bo2bo2bo2bob2o5bo$2b3o3bo2bo2bo5b3o3b3o3bo2b
o2bo5b3o$bo2bob2o5bo5bo2bo2bo2bob2o5bo5bo2bo$bo2bo5b3o3b3o3bo2bo2bo5b
3o3b3o3bo$3bo5bo2bo2bo2bob2o5bo5bo2bo2bo2bob2o$3o3b3o3bo2bo2bo5b3o3b3o
3bo2bo2bo$2bo2bo2bob2o5bo5bo2bo2bo2bob2o5bo5bo$2bo2bo2bo5b3o3b3o3bo2bo
2bo5b3o3b3o$2o5bo5bo2bo2bo2bob2o5bo5bo2bo2bo2bo$4b3o3b3o3bo2bo2bo5b3o
3b3o3bo2bo2bo$3bo2bo2bo2bob2o5bo5bo2bo2bo2bob2o5bo$3o3bo2bo2bo5b3o3b3o
3bo2bo2bo5b3o$2bob2o5bo5bo2bo2bo2bob2o5bo5bo2bo2bo$2bo5b3o3b3o3bo2bo2b
o5b3o3b3o3bo2bo$bo5bo2bo2bo2bob2o5bo5bo2bo2bo2bob2o$o3b3o3bo2bo2bo5b3o
3b3o3bo2bo2bo5b2o$o2bo2bob2o5bo5bo2bo2bo2bob2o5bo5bo$o2bo2bo5b3o3b3o3b
o2bo2bo5b3o3b3o$5bo5bo2bo2bo2bob2o5bo5bo2bo2bo2bob2o$2b3o3b3o3bo2bo2bo
5b3o3b3o3bo2bo2bo$bo2bo2bo2bob2o5bo5bo2bo2bo2bob2o5bo$o3bo2bo2bo5b3o3b
3o3bo2bo2bo5b3o3b2o$ob2o5bo5bo2bo2bo2bob2o5bo5bo2bo2bo$o5b3o3b3o3bo2bo
2bo5b3o3b3o3bo2bo$5bo2bo2bo2bob2o5bo5bo2bo2bo2bob2o5bo$2b3o3bo2bo2bo5b
3o3b3o3bo2bo2bo5b3o$bo2bob2o5bo5bo2bo2bo2bob2o5bo5bo2bo$bo2bo5b3o3b3o
3bo2bo2bo5b3o3b3o3bo$3bo5bo2bo2bo2bob2o5bo5bo2bo2bo2bob2o$3o3b3o3bo2bo
2bo5b3o3b3o3bo2bo2bo$2bo2bo2bob2o5bo5bo2bo2bo2bob2o5bo5bo$2bo2bo2bo5b
3o3b3o3bo2bo2bo5b3o3b3o!

[Macbi]

How hard would it be to find a diagonally moving negative spaceship in the zebra stripes agar or one moving in a different agar?
Edit: To clarify, by the one in a different agar, I mean one that moves along the same symmetry of the agar itself, like orthogonal in a chicken wire agar or diagonal in the p14 herringbone agar:

Code: Select all

x = 48, y = 48, rule = B3/S23:T48,48
2o5bo5bo2bo2bo2bob2o5bo5bo2bo2bo2bo$4b3o3b3o3bo2bo2bo5b3o3b3o3bo2bo2bo
$3bo2bo2bo2bob2o5bo5bo2bo2bo2bob2o5bo$3o3bo2bo2bo5b3o3b3o3bo2bo2bo5b3o
$2bob2o5bo5bo2bo2bo2bob2o5bo5bo2bo2bo$2bo5b3o3b3o3bo2bo2bo5b3o3b3o3bo
2bo$bo5bo2bo2bo2bob2o5bo5bo2bo2bo2bob2o$o3b3o3bo2bo2bo5b3o3b3o3bo2bo2b
o5b2o$o2bo2bob2o5bo5bo2bo2bo2bob2o5bo5bo$o2bo2bo5b3o3b3o3bo2bo2bo5b3o
3b3o$5bo5bo2bo2bo2bob2o5bo5bo2bo2bo2bob2o$2b3o3b3o3bo2bo2bo5b3o3b3o3bo
2bo2bo$bo2bo2bo2bob2o5bo5bo2bo2bo2bob2o5bo$o3bo2bo2bo5b3o3b3o3bo2bo2bo
5b3o3b2o$ob2o5bo5bo2bo2bo2bob2o5bo5bo2bo2bo$o5b3o3b3o3bo2bo2bo5b3o3b3o
3bo2bo$5bo2bo2bo2bob2o5bo5bo2bo2bo2bob2o5bo$2b3o3bo2bo2bo5b3o3b3o3bo2b
o2bo5b3o$bo2bob2o5bo5bo2bo2bo2bob2o5bo5bo2bo$bo2bo5b3o3b3o3bo2bo2bo5b
3o3b3o3bo$3bo5bo2bo2bo2bob2o5bo5bo2bo2bo2bob2o$3o3b3o3bo2bo2bo5b3o3b3o
3bo2bo2bo$2bo2bo2bob2o5bo5bo2bo2bo2bob2o5bo5bo$2bo2bo2bo5b3o3b3o3bo2bo
2bo5b3o3b3o$2o5bo5bo2bo2bo2bob2o5bo5bo2bo2bo2bo$4b3o3b3o3bo2bo2bo5b3o
3b3o3bo2bo2bo$3bo2bo2bo2bob2o5bo5bo2bo2bo2bob2o5bo$3o3bo2bo2bo5b3o3b3o
3bo2bo2bo5b3o$2bob2o5bo5bo2bo2bo2bob2o5bo5bo2bo2bo$2bo5b3o3b3o3bo2bo2b
o5b3o3b3o3bo2bo$bo5bo2bo2bo2bob2o5bo5bo2bo2bo2bob2o$o3b3o3bo2bo2bo5b3o
3b3o3bo2bo2bo5b2o$o2bo2bob2o5bo5bo2bo2bo2bob2o5bo5bo$o2bo2bo5b3o3b3o3b
o2bo2bo5b3o3b3o$5bo5bo2bo2bo2bob2o5bo5bo2bo2bo2bob2o$2b3o3b3o3bo2bo2bo
5b3o3b3o3bo2bo2bo$bo2bo2bo2bob2o5bo5bo2bo2bo2bob2o5bo$o3bo2bo2bo5b3o3b
3o3bo2bo2bo5b3o3b2o$ob2o5bo5bo2bo2bo2bob2o5bo5bo2bo2bo$o5b3o3b3o3bo2bo
2bo5b3o3b3o3bo2bo$5bo2bo2bo2bob2o5bo5bo2bo2bo2bob2o5bo$2b3o3bo2bo2bo5b
3o3b3o3bo2bo2bo5b3o$bo2bob2ogbo5bo2bo2bo2bob2o5bo5bo2bo$bo2bo5b3o3b3o
3bo2bo2bo5b3o3b3o3bo$3bo5bo2bo2bo2bob2o5bo5bo2bo2bo2bob2o$3o3b3o3bo2bo
2bo5b3o3b3o3bo2bo2bo$2bo2bo2bob2o5bo5bo2bo2bo2bob2o5bo5bo$2bo2bo2bo5b
3o3b3o3bo2bo2bo5b3o3b3o!

Diagonal ships can't exist in the zebra stripes agar, because any pattern that moves in the direction of the stripes necessarily causes a signal to travel through them orthogonally at lightspeed. They could well exist in other agars.

[Schiaparelliorbust]

Diagonal ships can't exist in the zebra stripes agar, because any pattern that moves in the direction of the stripes necessarily causes a signal to travel through them orthogonally at lightspeed. They could well exist in other agars.

Thanks! I guess this rules out oscillators in the agar too. What about negative spaceships in the chicken wire or Venetian blinds agar? It doesn't seem like it should be too hard.

[Macbi]

Diagonal ships can't exist in the zebra stripes agar, because any pattern that moves in the direction of the stripes necessarily causes a signal to travel through them orthogonally at lightspeed. They could well exist in other agars.

Thanks! I guess this rules out oscillators in the agar too.

It doesn't rule out oscillators or ships that travel perpendicular to the stripes, so long as they have a fixed width. And indeed such patterns (both oscillators and ships) exist.

[dvgrn]

What about negative spaceships in the chicken wire or Venetian blinds agar? It doesn't seem like it should be too hard.

Do you mean diagonal negative spaceships again, or just any negative spaceships?

The best way to build intuition about what's easy or hard is to spend a lot of time trying to find things. I haven't really done that, so please take anything I say with a pillar of salt.

Trivially, since "chicken wire" doesn't specify a width for the wires, there are against-the-grain negative spaceships that travel through chicken wire (that's so wide that it looks locally like zebra stripes). But that's just an annoying thing to say, so I'm sorry I mentioned it.

Venetian blinds agar is p2, and also very high-energy, with every cell constantly blinking on and off. I suspect, but won't try to prove, that that severely limits your options for pieces of non-Venetian-blinds traveling through it -- you tend to run out of options very very quickly for the necessary repair work behind the negative spaceship. You'd need a lot of births, and the only B in Life is B3.

Diagonal spaceships in any agar are probably -- again I'll just "suspect" this without trying to prove it -- much more difficult than orthogonal ones; basically you have to solve simultaneous destruction and repair problems on all four edges, where an orthogonal negative spaceship can just solve one problem at a time:

transition from agar to empty space, with a stabilization of the edge,

then

transition from stabilized edge back to agar again.

There was a post from wildmyron about trimmers on chickenwire agar, which could be maybe a step toward a negative chickenwire spaceship (but an orthogonal one).

[Schiaparelliorbust]

Do you mean diagonal negative spaceships again, or just any negative spaceships?

The best way to build intuition about what's easy or hard is to spend a lot of time trying to find things. I haven't really done that, so please take anything I say with a pillar of salt.

Trivially, since "chicken wire" doesn't specify a width for the wires, there are against-the-grain negative spaceships that travel through chicken wire (that's so wide that it looks locally like zebra stripes). But that's just an annoying thing to say, so I'm sorry I mentioned it.

Venetian blinds agar is p2, and also very high-energy, with every cell constantly blinking on and off. I suspect, but won't try to prove, that that severely limits your options for pieces of non-Venetian-blinds traveling through it -- you tend to run out of options very very quickly for the necessary repair work behind the negative spaceship. You'd need a lot of births, and the only B in Life is B3.

Diagonal spaceships in any agar are probably -- again I'll just "suspect" this without trying to prove it -- much more difficult than orthogonal ones; basically you have to solve simultaneous destruction and repair problems on all four edges, where an orthogonal negative spaceship can just solve one problem at a time:

transition from agar to empty space, with a stabilization of the edge,

then

transition from stabilized edge back to agar again.

There was a post from wildmyron about trimmers on chickenwire agar, which could be maybe a step toward a negative chickenwire spaceship (but an orthogonal one).

I meant orthogonal negative spaceships and width-2 chicken wire. Macbi said that a diagonal ship can't exist because it would cause lightspeed decaying of the agar in the direction parallel to the zebra stripes, but what if the negative spaceship also moves at lightspeed? Venetian blinds might be very hard, but I think chicken wire might be at least probable.

[dvgrn]

Macbi said that diagonal ship can't exist because it would case lightspeed decaying of the agar in the direction parallel to the zebra stripes, but what if the negative spaceship also moves at lightspeed?

There's no plausible mechanism for healing up a patch of chicken wire at lightspeed behind a negative spaceship.

The closest thing to that is the magically reappearing beehives in Jason Summers' telegraph, but that's not exactly chicken wire, and wouldn't work with agar packed tightly all around it.

Again, I'm no expert on this, so I haven't personally tried running the relevant search at various widths and gotten an official UNSATISFIABLE or "0 solutions" result.

[Schiaparelliorbust]

There's no plausible mechanism for healing up a patch of chicken wire at lightspeed behind a negative spaceship.

The closest thing to that is the magically reappearing beehives in Jason Summers' telegraph, but that's not exactly chicken wire, and wouldn't work with agar packed tightly all around it.

Again, I'm no expert on this, so I haven't personally tried running the relevant search at various widths and gotten an official UNSATISFIABLE or "0 solutions" result.

Does it even have to be lightspeed? Is there anything prohibiting it from being 2c/3 or something like that? Also, you were talking about with the grain, right?

[Donald K Trump]

What's the smallest pattern that is considered OT-endemic in every OT rule just by looking at its 0th and 1th generation?
What about INT?

Can unit Life cells simulate Viewer scripts?

I've found ColorfulGalaxy's LifeWiki articles a few days ago, and there was something really weird in it.
this
and this
Does wicks have apgcodes?
How did he make the fake stub message?
How did he get those pixel characters?
Also, the "MWSS spark" apgcode seems incorrect.

Also, many of your tagalongs in the wiki happen to fail.