Thread for basic questions

[wildmyron]

I just downloaded JLS and in the JLS manual pdf it says:
"The program can be started from command line by issuing the following command:
java -jar JavaLifeSearch_1.7.jar".
I assume that means the command prompt. But when I put it there I get this message:
The system cannot find the file C:\ProgramData\Oracle\Java\javapath\java.exe.
I don't have anything called ProgramData on my computer.

I normally just double click the jar file. That works for me.

C:\ProgramData is a hidden folder so you won't see it by default in the File Explorer. You can however enter "C:\ProgramData" directly into the Location bar and the contents of the folder will be displayed in File Explorer. You shouldn't need to do this unless the above method of running doesn't work. If it doesn't then I suspect you have a broken installation of Java. You can check what's in the folder "C:\ProgramData\Oracle\Java", but I'd recommend uninstalling it and then reinstalling it.

You mention having the JDK. Are you sure that it is the JDK and not the JRE? It used to be that you just needed the JRE, but these days for unsigned Java apps (like JLS) it's a lot easier to avoid the security "features" of Java by using the JDK.

Btw, the PATH on any system is an environment variable which contains a list of folders. When you try to run a command without specifying where to find it (like "java"), the OS will search through the folders in PATH to find an executable file which matches that command. You can see what the PATH is on your system by typing "echo %PATH%" at the cmd prompt. (On Windows the % characters de-mark a variable)

[Schiaparelliorbust]

I normally just double click the jar file. That works for me.

C:\ProgramData is a hidden folder so you won't see it by default in the File Explorer. You can however enter "C:\ProgramData" directly into the Location bar and the contents of the folder will be displayed in File Explorer. You shouldn't need to do this unless the above method of running doesn't work. If it doesn't then I suspect you have a broken installation of Java. You can check what's in the folder "C:\ProgramData\Oracle\Java", but I'd recommend uninstalling it and then reinstalling it.

You mention having the JDK. Are you sure that it is the JDK and not the JRE? It used to be that you just needed the JRE, but these days for unsigned Java apps (like JLS) it's a lot easier to avoid the security "features" of Java by using the JDK.

Btw, the PATH on any system is an environment variable which contains a list of folders. When you try to run a command without specifying where to find it (like "java"), the OS will search through the folders in PATH to find an executable file which matches that command. You can see what the PATH is on your system by typing "echo %PATH%" at the cmd prompt. (On Windows the % characters de-mark a variable)

I tried double clicking before, didn't work. I thought had both JDK and JRE, but I just looked where they where, and it looks like they're both inside other programs' folders, not on their own. I'll install them.

[GUYTU6J]

How do one actually enginner a caber tosser after calculating the ratio (v + u) / (v - u) mentioned in LifeWiki? I cannot make this one from Glimmering Garden work, where v = c/2 and u = 3c/20 :

Code: Select all

x = 95, y = 60, rule = B3-jknr4ity5ijk6i8/S23-a4city6c7c
74bo2$9bo$8bobo$9bo$73bob4obo$71b3o2bo2b3o$73bob4obo$69bo$68bobo$69bo
2$74bo2$79bo2$79bobo2$15b2o58bo$bo12bobo63bo3bo2bo2bo$obo12bo62bo7bo$b
o76bo2b3obo2bo2bo$78bo7bo$80bo3bo2bo2bo$75bo2$20bo58bobo$19bobo18b2o$
20bo19b3o36bo$40b2o$6b2o$5bobo70b2o$6bo26bo44bobo12bo$32bobo44bo12bobo
$33bo59bo2$bo$obo$bo6$2bo$bobo$2bo11$8bo$7bobo$8bo!

[Hunting]

Are there any widely-accepted measures for a rule's activeness/stableness? I'd expect Muzik's Game of Life to have a similar value to LeapLife.

[Schiaparelliorbust]

Are there any widely-accepted measures for a rule's activeness/stableness? I'd expect Muzik's Game of Life to have a similar value to LeapLife.

What is Muzik's Game of Life? I don't think there are any widely accepted measures, because each measure has its own pros and cons, they all measure something slightly different. It's kind of like measuring how good a methuselah is. Lower initial bounding box and population, and higher final population and bounding box are both better, but some methuselahs have one good characteristic at the cost of another. How should we measure them?
Some rules even explode differently, sometimes they explode all around, sometimes they explode because of a certain infinite growth pattern (example: the replicator LaundryPizza03's signature), sometimes the ash is dense enough that reactions don't ever die, but these types of rules tend to explode at very large soups(there is a methuselah spaceship partial in Moosey's HundredMirrorLife that seems to explode like that, I ran it until gen 1mil). https://xkcd.com/927/

[Hunting]

Are there any widely-accepted measures for a rule's activeness/stableness? I'd expect Muzik's Game of Life to have a similar value to LeapLife.

What is Muzik's Game of Life? I don't think there are any widely accepted measures, because each measure has its own pros and cons, they all measure something slightly different. It's kind of like measuring how good a methuselah is. Lower initial bounding box and population, and higher final population and bounding box are both better, but some methuselahs have one good characteristic at the cost of another. How should we measure them?
Some rules even explode differently, sometimes they explode all around, sometimes they explode because of a certain infinite growth pattern (example: the replicator LaundryPizza03's signature), sometimes the ash is dense enough that reactions don't ever die, but these types of rules tend to explode at very large soups(there is a methuselah spaceship partial in Moosey's HundredMirrorLife that seems to explode like that, I ran it until gen 1mil). https://xkcd.com/927/

Methuselah: there was quite a few competing standards before, but now L/MCPS pretty much dominated.

Also: https://conwaylife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=4871 congrat me.

[Schiaparelliorbust]

Methuselah: there was quite a few competing standards before, but now L/MCPS pretty much dominated.

Also: https://conwaylife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=4871 congrat me.

I know that, but it still doesn't negate my point. There are even rules with more birth conditions than others that aren't explosive, like B37/S23 is explosive while B357/S23 isn't, probably because more cells die from overpopulation. I saw your thread on LeapLife methuselahs. Maybe we can categorize rules based on behavior and have a different measurement system for every category. This would still create the problem that different measurements would be incompatible with each other.

[HelicopterCat3]

I understand conduits can take polyominoes as input like Herschels or B-Heptominoes, but has there been any R-Pentomino conduits or any where the input is another kind polyplet or polyomino?

[EvinZL]

I understand conduits can take polyominoes as input like Herschels or B-Heptominoes, but has there been any R-Pentomino conduits or any where the input is another kind polyplet or polyomino?

There are lots of those, for example RF28B

Code: Select all

x = 16, y = 15, rule = LifeHistory
5.2C$5.C.C$6.CB$5.2B3.B$2.B2.8B$.12BD$13B2D$B2C11B2D$2B2C10BD$2BC10BD
$5B.4B$10B$8B$6B$.4B!

[wwei23]

Why are V sparkers so difficult? We have a P5 HYPERFOUNTAIN at width-17 odd-symmetric (stolen shamelessly from the incomplete search patterns thread)

Code: Select all

x = 54, y = 27, rule = B3/S23
19b2obo7bo2bo$15b2o2bob2o2bo4b4o$14bo2bobo3b3o18bo2bo2bo$11b2o2b3o2b2o
6b8o8b7o$6bo3bo2b2o3bobob2o4bo6bo$5bobobobo3bob2obo3bo4b5o8b5o2b2o$5bo
bobobob2o4b2o2bobobob2o11b2ob2obo2bo$4b2obob2ob2o2b2o2b6obo7bo15bo$5bo
2bo2b2ob4o4b2obobob2o2bo2bob2o2bo3b2obob2o$5b2o4b2obo6b3o6bo4bo3bobobo
3b3o3bo$4bobobo2b2obob4o3bo9bobobobobob4o3bobo$4bo3bo5bobo2bobobo2bo5b
ob2ob2obobo3bo2b2ob2o$5b2obo3b2obo4b2o2b3o3b3o7bo2bo$o3bo3bo3b2o8b2o5b
o3b7ob2obo$5b2obo3b2obo4b2o2b3o3b3o7bo2bo$4bo3bo5bobo2bobobo2bo5bob2ob
2obobo3bo2b2ob2o$4bobobo2b2obob4o3bo9bobobobobob4o3bobo$5b2o4b2obo6b3o
6bo4bo3bobobo3b3o3bo$5bo2bo2b2ob4o4b2obobob2o2bo2bob2o2bo3b2obob2o$4b
2obob2ob2o2b2o2b6obo7bo15bo$5bobobobob2o4b2o2bobobob2o11b2ob2obo2bo$5b
obobobo3bob2obo3bo4b5o8b5o2b2o$6bo3bo2b2o3bobob2o4bo6bo$11b2o2b3o2b2o
6b8o8b7o$14bo2bobo3b3o18bo2bo2bo$15b2o2bob2o2bo4b4o$19b2obo7bo2bo!

However, a P5 V sparker with the same clearance seems to require width-21 odd symmetric!

Code: Select all

x = 31, y = 114, rule = B3/S23
15bo$14bobo3$3b2ob2o6bobo6b2ob2o$4bobobob4obob4obobobo$4bo5b2obobobob
2o5bo$2bobob4o3b5o3b4obobo$bobobo2bo4bobobo4bo2bobobo$bobobo2bo13bo2bo
bobo$2bobo5bob2o3b2obo5bobo$4bob2o3b2ob3ob2o3b2obo$3b2obo6b5o6bob2o$5b
ob2o4b5o4b2obo$5bobob3o7b3obobo$4b2obo2b2o7b2o2bob2o$7bo2bobobobobobo
2bo$4b2ob4obobobobob4ob2o$3bobobo6bobo6bobobo$2bo2bo4bob2o3b2obo4bo2bo
$2bobobobo3bo5bo3bobobobo$b2ob2o8b3o8b2ob2o$o2bo2bo2bo3b5o3bo2bo2bo2bo
$bobob5o2b2o3b2o2b5obobo$2bobo8bo3bo8bobo$4bobo17bobo$3b2obo6b2ob2o6bo
b2o$2bo2bob3o3b2ob2o3b3obo2bo$2b2obobo5bo3bo5bobob2o$5b3o4bobobobo4b3o
$2b3o2b2o2b2o5b2o2b2o2b3o$bo3b2obo3bobobobo3bob2o3bo$bobo9bobobo9bobo$
2b3obo4bo7bo4bob3o$6bobo13bobo$4b2o2b3obob3obob3o2b2o$3bobobo3b3o3b3o
3bobobo$4bo2b2o3bobobobo3b2o2bo$5b2o4bo2bobo2bo4b2o$7b4o4bo4b4o$4bobo
3b3o2bo2b3o3bobo$4b2obo5bo3bo5bob2o$7bo2b2o3bo3b2o2bo$7bobob2o5b2obobo
$6b2obobo2bobo2bobob2o$7bo2bo9bo2bo$5bobo3b2o5b2o3bobo$3b3ob2o2b2o5b2o
2b2ob3o$2bo3bo5bob3obo5bo3bo$2b2o2bobo3bob3obo3bobo2b2o$5b2o3b2o7b2o3b
2o$7bobo3bo3bo3bobo$5b2o3b2obo3bob2o3b2o$5bo9bo9bo$2b2obo5bob2ob2obo5b
ob2o$2b2obob2ob2o7b2ob2obob2o$5bobobobob2ob2obobobobo$5bo3b2obo5bob2o
3bo$4b2ob3o11b3ob2o$3bo2bobo3b2o3b2o3bobo2bo$2bobobobo2b2o5b2o2bobobob
o$3bo2b2o4b2o3b2o4b2o2bo$4b2o3bo2b2o3b2o2bo3b2o$6b4obo3bo3bob4o$4b2o4b
4obob4o4b2o$3bo2bo2bob2o5b2obo2bo2bo$4bob2o4b3ob3o4b2obo$3b2obobobo9bo
bobob2o$7bo2b2o7b2o2bo$9b2o9b2o$5b5o3b2ob2o3b5o$4bo6bob2ob2obo6bo$4bo
2b2o2b2ob3ob2o2b2o2bo$3b2obo4bob2ob2obo4bob2o$6bo2bo4bobo4bo2bo$6bo5bo
5bo5bo$7b2o13b2o$10bobob3obobo$11bo7bo$4b2o6b7o6b2o$5bo5bo3bo3bo5bo$2b
o2bobo2b2o7b2o2bobo2bo$2b4ob4o2b2ob2o2b4ob4o$6bo3bo9bo3bo$4bo2bob2o2bo
3bo2b2obo2bo$4b2obo3bo7bo3bob2o$5bobo2b2obo3bob2o2bobo$5bob2o13b2obo$
6bo3b4obob4o3bo$7bob2o3b3o3b2obo$4b3o5b3ob3o5b3o$4bo2b2ob2o2bobo2b2ob
2o2bo$7bo5b2ob2o5bo$5bobo4bo2bo2bo4bobo$5b2o5b2o3b2o5b2o$11bobo3bobo$
9b3o7b3o$8bo3b2o3b2o3bo$8b3o9b3o$11b9o$10bo3bobo3bo$10b2o2bobo2b2o$8b
2o11b2o$7bo2b5ob5o2bo$6bobobo9bobobo$6bobo2b4ob4o2bobo$7bobobo7bobobo$
8bo2bob5obo2bo$11bobobobobo$10b2obo3bob2o$12bob3obo$12bo5bo$13b5o$15bo
!

But why?

[bubblegum]

Why are V sparkers so difficult? We have a P5 HYPERFOUNTAIN at width-17 odd-symmetric (stolen shamelessly from the incomplete search patterns thread)

Code: Select all

snip

However, a P5 V sparker with the same clearance seems to require width-21 odd symmetric!

Code: Select all

snap

But why?

Probably because V sparks at such low periods tend to be really difficult to generate, even compared to that hyperfountained dot spark.

[EvinZL]

How does the bas64 encoding in MAP strings work?

[Naszvadi]

Which is the smallest constructed orthogonal rake that is slower than c/2 and shoots backward orthogonal ships with speed less than c/2?
The same question apply where all "orthogonal" words are replaced to "diagonal" and speed is "halved" - so strict limit become c/4 diagonal. Thanks in advance!

[bubblegum]

How does the bas64 encoding in MAP strings work?

A base system, with digit order ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZabcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz0123456789+/ and = for padding (use these to make the string length a multiple of 3 but most MAP-reading programs don't care).

[ColorfulGalaxy]

Another question: Chaotic growth is proved to exist in OCA. But if you simulate
a chaotic growth in Life using the 0E0P metacell, will it be treated as a Chaotic Growth?

Chaotic growth occurs in an infinite field; otherwise, in a finite field, the best you get is oscillation (i.e. an MxN box necessarily eventually oscillates with a period < 2^(MN)).

To simulate chaotic growth with metacells, you'd either need an infinite agar of metacells, or a breeder that constructs an ever-growing finite array of them at a speed at least as fast as the metacell clock speed.

That's why ColorfulGalaxy mentioned 0E0P metacells: the ground state of the 0E0P metacell is empty, with each metacell having construction arms capable of building its neighbours in the surrounding empty space.

Please answer that question.
Chaotic growth is proved to exist in OCA. But if you simulate
a chaotic growth in Life using the 0E0P metacell, will it be treated as a Chaotic Growth?

Another question: What is the smallest oscillator or still life whose canonical form of apgcode
(prefix excluded) is a pangram?
Numbers are also counted.
"y0" "y1" and so on, are not considered as digraphs.

[Schiaparelliorbust]

Please answer that question.
Chaotic growth is proved to exist in OCA. But if you simulate
a chaotic growth in Life using the 0E0P metacell, will it be treated as a Chaotic Growth?

Yes, it would be, though trivially. If there are no other cells, it would be essentially indistinguishable from the rule it's emulating. Life (along with many other rules) is stable at small scales but explosive at larger ones. You probably don't even need a 0E0P metacell for it.

[bubblegum]

Please answer that question.
Chaotic growth is proved to exist in OCA. But if you simulate
a chaotic growth in Life using the 0E0P metacell, will it be treated as a Chaotic Growth?

Yes, it would be, though trivially. If there are no other cells, it would be essentially indistinguishable from the rule it's emulating. Life (along with many other rules) is stable at small scales but explosive at larger ones. You probably don't even need a 0E0P metacell for it.

By larger scales I assume you mean sizes safely quadrillions of times larger than 0E0P metacells if randomly seeded?

[Schiaparelliorbust]

Yes, it would be, though trivially. If there are no other cells, it would be essentially indistinguishable from the rule it's emulating. Life (along with many other rules) is stable at small scales but explosive at larger ones. You probably don't even need a 0E0P metacell for it.

By larger scales I assume you mean sizes safely quadrillions of times larger than 0E0P metacells if randomly seeded?

Probably even larger. I doubt that even a few orders of magnitude larger would do the trick.

[ColorfulGalaxy]

Yes, it would be, though trivially. If there are no other cells, it would be essentially indistinguishable from the rule it's emulating. Life (along with many other rules) is stable at small scales but explosive at larger ones. You probably don't even need a 0E0P metacell for it.

By larger scales I assume you mean sizes safely quadrillions of times larger than 0E0P metacells if randomly seeded?

Probably even larger. I doubt that even a few orders of magnitude larger would do the trick.

What about the other question?

What is the smallest oscillator or still life whose canonical form of apgcode
(prefix excluded) is a pangram?
Numbers are also counted.
"y0" "y1" and so on, are not considered as digraphs.

[Hunting]

Yes, it would be, though trivially. If there are no other cells, it would be essentially indistinguishable from the rule it's emulating. Life (along with many other rules) is stable at small scales but explosive at larger ones. You probably don't even need a 0E0P metacell for it.

By larger scales I assume you mean sizes safely quadrillions of times larger than 0E0P metacells if randomly seeded?

Probably even larger. I doubt that even a few orders of magnitude larger would do the trick.

At that scale random breeder collisions would be very common so no.

[Schiaparelliorbust]

What about the other question?

What is the smallest oscillator or still life whose canonical form of apgcode
(prefix excluded) is a pangram?
Numbers are also counted.
"y0" "y1" and so on, are not considered as digraphs.

I unfortunately don't know that.

At that scale random breeder collisions would be very common so no.

I guess you're right. I didn't consider that.

[Naszvadi]

Which is the smallest constructed orthogonal rake that is slower than c/2 and shoots backward orthogonal ships with speed less than c/2?
The same question apply where all "orthogonal" words are replaced to "diagonal" and speed is "halved" - so strict limit become c/4 diagonal. Thanks in advance!

Question is updated - rakes count only with these velocities: c/6 orthogonal simplified and c/12 diagonal simplified.

Another new question is: which glider constructible cordership needs the least gliders to destroy it completely?

[MathAndCode]

What is the most common result of a three-glider collision that is not the result of any two-glider collisions?

[EvinZL]

What is the most common result of a three-glider collision that is not the result of any two-glider collisions?

Herschel or r? If by "common" you mean forms the most not necessarily from a three glider collision

[MathAndCode]

Herschel or r? If by "common" you mean forms the most not necessarily from a three glider collision

I meant that forms from the most three-glider collisions.