Let's create a language!

[BokaBB]

Read my last message. Kopeo is to sleep and meneo is to make or create. I just criticized kopneo.

Fixed on the sheet. However, I still think we should have separate verbs for make/create and make/cause.

What are the codas?

Sounds at the ends of syllables, eg re*d*, toa*st*.

We can make more words with the rare clusters.

That is also an option. However, unless we make a lot of words with clusters, they'll probably still sound strange, which is why I think we should remove them entirely.

You haven't commented on my verb system, vowel harmony, or evidentiality. What do you think of those? Also, is anyone here interested in a Discord server?

Okay.
Udeo will be to make/cause. Also,ude will be force.
I don't think your systems are too bad,but I am always somewhat conservative. Everyone is,not a problem.
I don't have Discord but may install if forced. However,I still wish the center of operations to be here.
Please invent one word by yourself,you don't seem to have any so far. I think that I prioritize users that make more words.
Elkeo beo rigeu!

BokaBB

[fluffykitty]

Please invent one word by yourself,you don't seem to have any so far. I think that I prioritize users that make more words.

I've added <sileo> ("to come").

[Moosey]

Please invent one word by yourself,you don't seem to have any so far. I think that I prioritize users that make more words.

we can't do words until we finish phonology and phonotactics and orthography though

[fluffykitty]

I have a phonology and phonotactics proposal in the mess around here sheet. We don't need to exactly nail down the value of <c> or the vowels before making words (though it does need to happen at some point).

[Moosey]

ok boka's supressing my opinions on the sheet :shrug:

[fluffykitty]

Changes we've made on the sheet:

• Komal is now the official name
• <mer> no longer means "bad taste"
• <bok> has been added for "bitter taste/bad taste"
• <sileo> has been added for "to come"
• <fel> and <feleu> have been added for "interruption" and "pause/break" respectively
• Maybe some other stuff

[BokaBB]

ok boka's supressing my opinions on the sheet :shrug:

Joke.
Elkeo beo rigeu!

BokaBB

[fluffykitty]

Some thoughts:

• We should work out the grammar more. So far, all we have are a few prepositions and conjunctions, basic word order, a complementizer (<ber>), and two different sets of verb inflections. Some more things we'll need include adverbs and relative clauses.
• We should completely decide the orthography, phonology, and phonotactics of the language. I support the system I described in my post on page 19, with /ts/ for <c>, reversible devoicing of word-final consonants (<nag> /nak/ and <nageo> /nagjo/), dipththong simplification (<-eo> -/jo/), and vowel harmony (words have either /aɛeo/ or /aɪiu/, and words that need both sets will modify vowels after the first /ɛeɪiou/ to be in the same set as that vowel, so <fikeo> becomes /fɪkju/ and <gefikeo> becomes /gɛfɛkyo/). Vowel harmony modifications should be reflected in writing, so those become <fikyu> and <gefekyo>. <ei> represent [ɛɪ], except when followed by a semivowel or another vowel, in which case they become [ei] respectively. To force pronunciation as /ei/, the vowel can be doubled (<ee> /e/, <ii> /i/). These combinations would otherwise be pronounced */eɛ/ and */iɪ/, which are undesirable.
• If we include vowel harmony, we can get weird alternations with certain prefixes, like the above example with <ge->. Other prefixes with non-/a/ vowels will also trigger similar alternations in some words.

[Hunting]

Please invent one word by yourself,you don't seem to have any so far. I think that I prioritize users that make more words.

we can't do words until we finish phonology and phonotactics and orthography though

Agreed. On an unrelated note, Ubuntu pastebin, anyone?

[Schiaparelliorbust]

Read my last message. Kopeo is to sleep and meneo is to make or create. I just criticized kopneo.

Fixed on the sheet. However, I still think we should have separate verbs for make/create and make/cause.

What are the codas?

Sounds at the ends of syllables, eg re*d*, toa*st*.

We can make more words with the rare clusters.

That is also an option. However, unless we make a lot of words with clusters, they'll probably still sound strange, which is why I think we should remove them entirely.

You haven't commented on my verb system, vowel harmony, or evidentiality. What do you think of those? Also, is anyone here interested in a Discord server?

I've never used Discord before but that sounds like a good idea. It would be much faster, especially at cleaning up misunderstandings.

[Hunting]

Read my last message. Kopeo is to sleep and meneo is to make or create. I just criticized kopneo.

Fixed on the sheet. However, I still think we should have separate verbs for make/create and make/cause.

What are the codas?

Sounds at the ends of syllables, eg re*d*, toa*st*.

We can make more words with the rare clusters.

That is also an option. However, unless we make a lot of words with clusters, they'll probably still sound strange, which is why I think we should remove them entirely.

You haven't commented on my verb system, vowel harmony, or evidentiality. What do you think of those? Also, is anyone here interested in a Discord server?

I've never used Discord before but that sounds like a good idea. It would be much faster, especially at cleaning up misunderstandings.

Discord also have drawbacks and I don't like projects there.

Firstly I don't like using VPN everytime I want to do something about cellular automata. Secondly there seem to be negative opinions toward the site about some of its content (of course not related to CA, but it deters). Thirdly more information source is not good for managing, archiving and searching, and the old and simple conwaylife.com forums is totally enough for relevant discussion.

[Schiaparelliorbust]

I've never used Discord before but that sounds like a good idea. It would be much faster, especially at cleaning up misunderstandings.

Discord also have drawbacks and I don't like projects there.

Firstly I don't like using VPN everytime I want to do something about cellular automata. Secondly there seem to be negative opinions toward the site about some of its content (of course not related to CA, but it deters). Thirdly more information source is not good for managing, archiving and searching, and the old and simple conwaylife.com forums is totally enough for relevant discussion.

We could post simple questions and answers there so as to not clutter up the forums.

[fluffykitty]

We could post simple questions and answers [on the Discord] so as to not clutter up the forums.

That's probably a good idea. Another possibility would be doing that on the sheet in a new subsheet.

Recent additions/changes:

• <congeo> "to cook"
• <fik> "fish"
• <fike> "fishing rod"
• <fikeo> "to fish"
• <paci> "ocean"
• <pacifikeo> "to fish in the ocean"
• <fun> "sweet taste/good taste" (was some weirder stuff)
• <mer> "spicy taste" (also meant "bad taste")
• <nok> "bitter taste/bad taste"

Also, what do people think of my proposals in this post? We still need more grammar stuff.

[Schiaparelliorbust]

We could post simple questions and answers [on the Discord] so as to not clutter up the forums.

That's probably a good idea. Another possibility would be doing that on the sheet in a new subsheet.

Recent additions/changes:

• <congeo> "to cook"
• <fik> "fish"
• <fike> "fishing rod"
• <fikeo> "to fish"
• <paci> "ocean"
• <pacifikeo> "to fish in the ocean"
• <fun> "sweet taste/good taste" (was some weirder stuff)
• <mer> "spicy taste" (also meant "bad taste")
• <nok> "bitter taste/bad taste"

Also, what do people think of my proposals in this post? We still need more grammar stuff.

Fishing rod should should change. So should "fishing in the ocean". We could make a word unrelated to fish meaning fishing rod. It's a simple concept that should have its own word. We alread have some prepositions, we could use that for "fishing <in> the ocean".

[fluffykitty]

Fishing rod should should change. So should "fishing in the ocean". We could make a word unrelated to fish meaning fishing rod. It's a simple concept that should have its own word. We alread have some prepositions, we could use that for "fishing <in> the ocean".

I disagree. English also derives "fishing rod" from "fish", and "ocean-fishing" is a reasonable compound for "fishing in the ocean". "Fikeo pes peci" could also be used, but I prefer <pacifikeo>.
For grammar, I think adverbs like "tiredly", "while eating", and "having slept" could be done by adding a participle after the verb (imperfective for the first two, perfective for the third), eg <(n)gon(g) koperat nagil> "I fell asleep while eating". Do you have any ideas for grammar?

[Schiaparelliorbust]

I disagree. English also derives "fishing rod" from "fish", and "ocean-fishing" is a reasonable compound for "fishing in the ocean". "Fikeo pes peci" could also be used, but I prefer <pacifikeo>.
For grammar, I think adverbs like "tiredly", "while eating", and "having slept" could be done by adding a participle after the verb (imperfective for the first two, perfective for the third), eg <(n)gon(g) koperat nagil> "I fell asleep while eating". Do you have any ideas for grammar?

Can we at least make fishing rod a compound noun instead of having an affix? For relative clauses maybe we could have an affix? We already have "ber" which means "that" in the sense "I think that you shouldn't go."

[fluffykitty]

Can we at least make fishing rod a compound noun instead of having an affix?

<-e> is already a fairly common affix. I don't see why you wouldn't want to use it in that situation.

For relative clauses maybe we could have an affix? We already have "ber" which means "that" in the sense "I think that you shouldn't go."

What would the affix attach to? The finite verb, as in <mau shya segendi> "the cat you're touching"? I think that could be interesting. If we do that, then we should have separate affixes for subject (I suggest <-gu>) and object (<-di>). I'm not sure how stuff like "the rope I'm holding onto" would work, though. Also, what do you think of <-(o)r> for an accusative case marker?

[Schiaparelliorbust]

Can we at least make fishing rod a compound noun instead of having an affix?

<-e> is already a fairly common affix. I don't see why you wouldn't want to use it in that situation.

For relative clauses maybe we could have an affix? We already have "ber" which means "that" in the sense "I think that you shouldn't go."

What would the affix attach to? The finite verb, as in <mau shya segendi> "the cat you're touching"? I think that could be interesting. If we do that, then we should have separate affixes for subject (I suggest <-gu>) and object (<-di>). I'm not sure how stuff like "the rope I'm holding onto" would work, though. Also, what do you think of <-(o)r> for an accusative case marker?

Sorry I totally forgot what -e meant. I am 100% for it in this situation. I was thinking you could put it after the subject. I know segeo is to touch but what is -ndi? I couldn't find it in the spreadsheet.

[fluffykitty]

I was thinking you could put it after the subject.

Some relative clauses lack subjects ("the cat that watched me" and, if we use null subjects for passives, "the horse that was washed").

I know segeo is to touch but what is -ndi? I couldn't find it in the spreadsheet.

<-en> is the standard present suffix (current verb system) or the imperfective suffix (my proposed system), and <-di> is the relative clause suffix I suggested.

For more complicated relative clauses, we could use a suffix like <-amal> or something on a noun for "whose" or on a preposition for "to/from/etc whom/which", eg <malun ngong nagamal nagen> "the person whose food I'm eating" (not sure if we should make <-amal> words move to the front like in English) and <nist ngong da(a)mal leren> "the horse I'm going to". What do you think of this idea?

[Schiaparelliorbust]

Some relative clauses lack subjects ("the cat that watched me" and, if we use null subjects for passives, "the horse that was washed").
<-en> is the standard present suffix (current verb system) or the imperfective suffix (my proposed system), and <-di> is the relative clause suffix I suggested.

For more complicated relative clauses, we could use a suffix like <-amal> or something on a noun for "whose" or on a preposition for "to/from/etc whom/which", eg <malun ngong nagamal nagen> "the person whose food I'm eating" (not sure if we should make <-amal> words move to the front like in English) and <nist ngong da(a)mal leren> "the horse I'm going to". What do you think of this idea?

Ok then let's put if after the object. For whose I like your idea. For prepositions we should use ber: <nist ngong da leren ber>. I think this is how it should be ordered. If I've made any mistakes please tell me. Sorry I took so long to respond, I was in an online exam.

[fluffykitty]

Ok then let's put if after the object. For whose I like your idea.

Relative clauses don't necessarily have an object either ("the button (that) I pressed").

For prepositions we should use ber: <nist ngong da leren ber>. I think this is how it should be ordered.

English relative clauses place the relative pronoun immediately after the preposition ("the school to which I go"). Your ordering could also work, but I still prefer my solution.

[Schiaparelliorbust]

Ok then let's put if after the object. For whose I like your idea.

Relative clauses don't necessarily have an object either ("the button (that) I pressed").

For prepositions we should use ber: <nist ngong da leren ber>. I think this is how it should be ordered.

English relative clauses place the relative pronoun immediately after the preposition ("the school to which I go"). Your ordering could also work, but I still prefer my solution.

But isn't the object there the button? We could rephrase "the school to which I go" as "the school that I go to". Let's try to keep English analogies simple. Do we have a separate who and that?

[fluffykitty]

But isn't the object there the button?

So you're suggesting <maudi shya segen> for "the cat you're touching"? This might cause problems with cases if we use those.

We could rephrase "the school to which I go" as "the school that I go to". Let's try to keep English analogies simple.

We should try to avoid making the language too similar to any existing language. I don't think we should use preposition stranding for this language.

Do we have a separate who and that?

No. None of the proposed systems indicate animacy in any way.

[Schiaparelliorbust]

So you're suggesting <maudi shya segen> for "the cat you're touching"? This might cause problems with cases if we use those.

We could rephrase "the school to which I go" as "the school that I go to". Let's try to keep English analogies simple.

We should try to avoid making the language too similar to any existing language. I don't think we should use preposition stranding for this language.

Sorry, I got that as in "I think that" and "the cat that I'm touching mixed up". Sorry, I really haven't ever dealt with grammar before. That's exactly what I think should be done. Why would it cause problems with cases? Yes, preposition stranding is not a good idea. It would make stuff too complex and similar.

[fluffykitty]

So you're suggesting <maudi shya segen> for "the cat you're touching"? This might cause problems with cases if we use those.

Why would it cause problems with cases?

If the language had case affixes (like the <-(o)r> I proposed earlier), then nouns might get marked with two case affixes (case in the relative clause, and case in the main clause), eg "I saw the cat that ate my food" has "cat" as the object of the main clause but the subject of the relative clause. I think this could be confusing, especially with a more complex case system.