Thread for your unsure discoveries

[MathAndCode]

Its neighborhood is a 4×4 square. Because the side length is even, there is no way for a cell to be exactly in the center. Instead, each cell is affected by cells that are both between two cells above and one cell below it and between two cells to the left of it and one cell to the right of it, and each cell affects cells that are both between one cell above and two cells below it and between one cell to the left of it and two cells to the right of it. This is why spaceships and junk in that rule always move down and to the right.

As it happens, LV supports a general version of that rulespace, since Build 549. Your neighborhood would be

Code: Select all

11110
11110
11c10
11110
00000

= hex(111101111011101111000000) = F7BBC0 I think:

Code: Select all

x = 1, y = 1, rule = R2,C2,S,B1,N@f7bbc0
o!

I tried changing it to R2,C2,S46789,B678,N@f7bbc0, but I got the error HROT 'S46789' > 15. How do I fix that?

[Moosey]

<snip>
I tried changing it to R2,C2,S46789,B678,N@f7bbc0, but I got the error HROT 'S46789' > 15. How do I fix that?

try R2,C2,S4,6,7,8,9,B6,7,8,N@f7bbc0

you have the conditions separated by commas since multidigit conditions are possible with large enough neighborhoods

[MathAndCode]

<snip>
I tried changing it to R2,C2,S46789,B678,N@f7bbc0, but I got the error HROT 'S46789' > 15. How do I fix that?

try R2,C2,S4,6,7,8,9,B6,7,8,N@f7bbc0

you have the conditions separated by commas since multidigit conditions are possible with large enough neighborhoods

Ah; thank you.

Code: Select all

x = 6, y = 6, rule = R2,C2,S4,6-9,B6-8,N@f7bbc0
4b2o$4b2o$4b2o$4b2o$5o$4o!

I also managed to flip the neighborhood so the patterns go in the same direction that I'm used to.

Code: Select all

x = 6, y = 6, rule = R2,C2,S4,6-9,B6-8,N@03ddef
2b4o$b5o$2o$2o$2o$2o!

Also, I have created a thread about Marine in the forum for alternative rules.

[Kazyan]

This reaction seems familiar, but I don't know where it's recorded, if it's known:

Code: Select all

x = 28, y = 21, rule = LifeHistory
A.A$.2A$.A6$27.D$25.3D$4.2A2.2C15.D.D$4.2A2.2C15.D6$5.2C$5.C$6.3C$8.C
!

[Entity Valkyrie 2]

This pattern almost repeats itself after seven and fourteen generators and could therefore possibly be made into an oscillator:

Code: Select all

x = 12, y = 6, rule = LifeHistory
5.2E$2E2.E2.E2.2E$2.E.E2.E.E$2.E.E2.E.E$2E2.E2.E2.2E$5.2E!
#C [[ T 7 PAUSE 1 T 14 PAUSE 1 ]]

Indeed:

Code: Select all

x = 28, y = 35, rule = B3/S23
5b2o6b2o6b2o$5bo6bo2bo6bo$2b2obo3b2obo2bob2o3bob2o$3bob2o2b2obo2bob2o
2b2obo$2bo3bo5bo2bo5bo3bo$2b2obo7b2o7bob2o$6bo14bo$2b4o16b4o$2bo2bobo
12bobo2bo$3bo2b2o12b2o2bo$3o22b3o$o26bo9$3bo20bo$2bo2bo7b2o7bo2bo$bo
10bo2bo10bo$bo4bo2b2obo2bob2o2bo4bo$4o2bo2b2obo2bob2o2bo2b4o$o5bo5bo2b
o5bo5bo$b5o7b2o7b5o2$b5o7b2o7b5o$o5bo5bo2bo5bo5bo$4o2bo2b2obo2bob2o2bo
2b4o$bo4bo2b2obo2bob2o2bo4bo$bo10bo2bo10bo$2bo2bo7b2o7bo2bo$3bo20bo!

[MathAndCode]

This pattern almost repeats itself after seven and fourteen generators and could therefore possibly be made into an oscillator:

Code: Select all

x = 12, y = 6, rule = LifeHistory
5.2E$2E2.E2.E2.2E$2.E.E2.E.E$2.E.E2.E.E$2E2.E2.E2.2E$5.2E!
#C [[ T 7 PAUSE 1 T 14 PAUSE 1 ]]

Indeed:

Code: Select all

x = 28, y = 35, rule = B3/S23
5b2o6b2o6b2o$5bo6bo2bo6bo$2b2obo3b2obo2bob2o3bob2o$3bob2o2b2obo2bob2o
2b2obo$2bo3bo5bo2bo5bo3bo$2b2obo7b2o7bob2o$6bo14bo$2b4o16b4o$2bo2bobo
12bobo2bo$3bo2b2o12b2o2bo$3o22b3o$o26bo9$3bo20bo$2bo2bo7b2o7bo2bo$bo
10bo2bo10bo$bo4bo2b2obo2bob2o2bo4bo$4o2bo2b2obo2bob2o2bo2b4o$o5bo5bo2b
o5bo5bo$b5o7b2o7b5o2$b5o7b2o7b5o$o5bo5bo2bo5bo5bo$4o2bo2b2obo2bob2o2bo
2b4o$bo4bo2b2obo2bob2o2bo4bo$bo10bo2bo10bo$2bo2bo7b2o7bo2bo$3bo20bo!

Thank you.
By the way, if one only uses domino sparks, then the pattern turns into a pond, which can be turned back into the original shape with dot sparks (or pairs of dot sparks separated orthogonally by three cells) from perpendicular directions. Is there any way to make that into an oscillator?

[gameoflifemaniac]

This pattern almost repeats itself after seven and fourteen generators and could therefore possibly be made into an oscillator:

Code: Select all

x = 12, y = 6, rule = LifeHistory
5.2E$2E2.E2.E2.2E$2.E.E2.E.E$2.E.E2.E.E$2E2.E2.E2.2E$5.2E!
#C [[ T 7 PAUSE 1 T 14 PAUSE 1 ]]

Indeed:

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x = 28, y = 35, rule = B3/S23
5b2o6b2o6b2o$5bo6bo2bo6bo$2b2obo3b2obo2bob2o3bob2o$3bob2o2b2obo2bob2o
2b2obo$2bo3bo5bo2bo5bo3bo$2b2obo7b2o7bob2o$6bo14bo$2b4o16b4o$2bo2bobo
12bobo2bo$3bo2b2o12b2o2bo$3o22b3o$o26bo9$3bo20bo$2bo2bo7b2o7bo2bo$bo
10bo2bo10bo$bo4bo2b2obo2bob2o2bo4bo$4o2bo2b2obo2bob2o2bo2b4o$o5bo5bo2b
o5bo5bo$b5o7b2o7b5o2$b5o7b2o7b5o$o5bo5bo2bo5bo5bo$4o2bo2b2obo2bob2o2bo
2b4o$bo4bo2b2obo2bob2o2bo4bo$bo10bo2bo10bo$2bo2bo7b2o7bo2bo$3bo20bo!

Thank you.

Nice!

[MathAndCode]

Indeed:

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x = 28, y = 35, rule = B3/S23
5b2o6b2o6b2o$5bo6bo2bo6bo$2b2obo3b2obo2bob2o3bob2o$3bob2o2b2obo2bob2o
2b2obo$2bo3bo5bo2bo5bo3bo$2b2obo7b2o7bob2o$6bo14bo$2b4o16b4o$2bo2bobo
12bobo2bo$3bo2b2o12b2o2bo$3o22b3o$o26bo9$3bo20bo$2bo2bo7b2o7bo2bo$bo
10bo2bo10bo$bo4bo2b2obo2bob2o2bo4bo$4o2bo2b2obo2bob2o2bo2b4o$o5bo5bo2b
o5bo5bo$b5o7b2o7b5o2$b5o7b2o7b5o$o5bo5bo2bo5bo5bo$4o2bo2b2obo2bob2o2bo
2b4o$bo4bo2b2obo2bob2o2bo4bo$bo10bo2bo10bo$2bo2bo7b2o7bo2bo$3bo20bo!

Thank you.

Nice!

Yes; Entity Valkyrie 2 and I just discovered an oscillator together.

Edit: Nevermind; my assumption turned out to be wrong.

[Moosey]

Yes; Entity Valkyrie 2 and I just discovered an oscillator together.

Unless there is prior art; that oscillator does look familiar to me but I can't place it off the top of my head.

[MathAndCode]

Yes; Entity Valkyrie 2 and I just discovered an oscillator together.

Unless there is prior art; that oscillator does look familiar to me but I can't place it off the top of my head.

I assumed that anyone who is knowledgeable/experienced enough in Conway's Game of Life to stabilize that would also be knowledgeable/experienced enough to know how one could make sure that that reaction was not already known and that Entity Valkyrie 2 would have mentioned if that oscillator were already known.

[praosylen]

Yes; Entity Valkyrie 2 and I just discovered an oscillator together.

Unless there is prior art; that oscillator does look familiar to me but I can't place it off the top of my head.

Yeah, it's known. Here's the first mention of it I can find — there are a bunch more variants in the thread below the post I linked, but I'm pretty sure the ones EV2 posted (which have been on the wiki at User:Entity_Valkyrie_2/76P7 since November 2019) are generally the best ones known.

[wwei23]

I think I found a new garden of eden, is that anything special? JLS couldn't find any parents, I will attach the JDF, zipped:

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x = 20, y = 20
bobo4boob4oboboo$bbo3b3o3b3obb3o$5boboobbooboobboo$bbobobobobob6obo$3boboo5b3obo
bo$b3oboobbobobobb4o$4obboobbobbob5o$6b4oboobob4o$oboboo4boboobboo$b3obobboo3bob
ob3o$obb4o4boobobo$3o3b3oboobobboobo$oobooboboboboo4boo$oobobobboobobobb3o$ob3ob
obo3boboobo$boo4bo3bo3b4o$3oboo3b5obobo$obbobo3b6oboo$oo4b4oboob6o$ooboo3boobobo
boobbo!

is this a goe.zip

(1.13 KiB) Downloaded 201 times

[MathAndCode]

Yes; Entity Valkyrie 2 and I just discovered an oscillator together.

Unless there is prior art; that oscillator does look familiar to me but I can't place it off the top of my head.

Yeah, it's known. Here's the first mention of it I can find — there are a bunch more variants in the thread below the post I linked, but I'm pretty sure the ones EV2 posted (which have been on the wiki at User:Entity_Valkyrie_2/76P7 since November 2019) are generally the best ones known.

What about the pond variant that I mentioned earlier?

If one only uses domino sparks, then the pattern turns into a pond, which can be turned back into the original shape with dot sparks (or pairs of dot sparks separated orthogonally by three cells) from perpendicular directions. Is there any way to make that into an oscillator?

[praosylen]

What about the pond variant that I mentioned earlier?

If one only uses domino sparks, then the pattern turns into a pond, which can be turned back into the original shape with dot sparks (or pairs of dot sparks separated orthogonally by three cells) from perpendicular directions. Is there any way to make that into an oscillator?

There's a neat way to substitute domino sparks for dot sparks to make the reaction work at period 7:

Code: Select all

x = 55, y = 23, rule = B3/S23
11$37b2o$2bo50bo$2bo33b2o15bo$18b2o15b4o$b2o14bo2bo14b4o13b2o$o2bo4bo
bobo2bobo2bobo4bobobo11bobobo3bo2bo$o2bo11bobo2bobo28bo2bo$b2o14bo2bo
14b4o13b2o$18b2o15b4o$bo34b2o14bo$bo50bo$35b2o!

But sadly there aren't any p7 domino sparkers known that can fit in such close proximity to each other. At all other low periods the spark given off by the reaction interferes with the supporting dot spark. (At period 12 the reaction can support itself on the top and bottom, using the "pairs of dot sparks separated orthogonally by three cells" approach, but I don't know of any sparkers that would fit on the left and right.) Pentadecathlons fit at p15, but their end sparks are too complicated to substitute for dot sparks. (Karel's p15 doesn't work for multiple reasons.) Above that, I think the only good option would be engineering the sparks into place using guns, which seems overcomplicated just to support a small reaction like this.

[MathAndCode]

What about the pond variant that I mentioned earlier?

If one only uses domino sparks, then the pattern turns into a pond, which can be turned back into the original shape with dot sparks (or pairs of dot sparks separated orthogonally by three cells) from perpendicular directions. Is there any way to make that into an oscillator?

There's a neat way to substitute domino sparks for dot sparks to make the reaction work at period 7:

Code: Select all

x = 55, y = 23, rule = B3/S23
11$37b2o$2bo50bo$2bo33b2o15bo$18b2o15b4o$b2o14bo2bo14b4o13b2o$o2bo4bo
bobo2bobo2bobo4bobobo11bobobo3bo2bo$o2bo11bobo2bobo28bo2bo$b2o14bo2bo
14b4o13b2o$18b2o15b4o$bo34b2o14bo$bo50bo$35b2o!

But sadly there aren't any p7 domino sparkers known that can fit in such close proximity to each other. At all other low periods the spark given off by the reaction interferes with the supporting dot spark. (At period 12 the reaction can support itself on the top and bottom, using the "pairs of dot sparks separated orthogonally by three cells" approach, but I don't know of any sparkers that would fit on the left and right.) Pentadecathlons fit at p15, but their end sparks are too complicated to substitute for dot sparks. (Karel's p15 doesn't work for multiple reasons.) Above that, I think the only good option would be engineering the sparks into place using guns, which seems overcomplicated just to support a small reaction like this.

Considering that the reaction doesn't need to occur at any specific period, making it work shouldn't be very hard.

Edit: Could this be helpful?

Code: Select all

x = 6, y = 12, rule = B3/S23
2obo2$2b2o$b4o$b4o3$b4o$b4o$2b2o2$2bob2o!

Another edit: A pair of dot sparks two or three cells apart can replace a domino spark.

Code: Select all

x = 8, y = 6, rule = B3/S23
3b2o$2bo2bobo$obo2bo$2bo2bo$obo2bobo$3b2o!

[praosylen]

Considering that the reaction doesn't need to occur at any specific period, making it work shouldn't be very hard.

Edit: Could this be helpful?

Code: Select all

x = 6, y = 12, rule = B3/S23
2obo2$2b2o$b4o$b4o3$b4o$b4o$2b2o2$2bob2o!

Another edit: A pair of dot sparks two or three cells apart can replace a domino spark.

Code: Select all

x = 8, y = 6, rule = B3/S23
3b2o$2bo2bobo$obo2bo$2bo2bo$obo2bobo$3b2o!

Those are all great ideas for stabilizing this, all of which I've tried without success. Sadly, the issue is that there simply don't (yet?) exist less bulky sparkers that can produce the sparks one would need to support the reaction, short of the completely overkill method of synthesizing the sparks with gliders from guns. It might be an interesting exercise to try to stabilize using p120 guns or something similar, but it's not going to be the kind of thing anyone would include in their oscillator collections. I think the best bet to complete it in a way that would be seen as notable would be to find some slightly better p7 domino sparkers and use the variation I found, but given how much effort people have put in over the years to find p7 sparkers with relatively few good results, I doubt either of us would have much luck without what might be a weeks-long computer search...

[MathAndCode]

Considering that the reaction doesn't need to occur at any specific period, making it work shouldn't be very hard.

Edit: Could this be helpful?

Code: Select all

x = 6, y = 12, rule = B3/S23
2obo2$2b2o$b4o$b4o3$b4o$b4o$2b2o2$2bob2o!

Another edit: A pair of dot sparks two or three cells apart can replace a domino spark.

Code: Select all

x = 8, y = 6, rule = B3/S23
3b2o$2bo2bobo$obo2bo$2bo2bo$obo2bobo$3b2o!

Those are all great ideas for stabilizing this, all of which I've tried without success. Sadly, the issue is that there simply don't (yet?) exist less bulky sparkers that can produce the sparks one would need to support the reaction, short of the completely overkill method of synthesizing the sparks with gliders from guns. It might be an interesting exercise to try to stabilize using p120 guns or something similar, but it's not going to be the kind of thing anyone would include in their oscillator collections. I think the best bet to complete it in a way that would be seen as notable would be to find some slightly better p7 domino sparkers and use the variation I found, but given how much effort people have put in over the years to find p7 sparkers with relatively few good results, I doubt either of us would have much luck without what might be a weeks-long computer search...

Not being able to complete the oscillator is frustrating, but I suppose that a significant proportion of attempts to do something in Conway's Game of Life end that way, and yet we persevere. I suppose that part of the difficulty is that I still haven't developed a sense of what things are worth trying yet.

[mniemiec]

Not being able to complete the oscillator is frustrating, but I suppose that a significant proportion of attempts to do something in Conway's Game of Life end that way, and yet we persevere. I suppose that part of the difficulty is that I still haven't developed a sense of what things are worth trying yet.

Don't worry. That kind of sense does slowly develop over time, although it's never perfect. I've been playing with Life for 50 years now, and my sense of what's practical is still not that great!

[wwei23]

Is this period-192 Cordership known?

Code: Select all

x = 70, y = 70, rule = Life
19bo$17b2o2b2obo6b2ob2o$19b5obo8b2o$18b2o4bo5bobob2o$16bobo11bobo$30b
2o$8b2o6b3o$8b2o3$30bo$29b4o2bo6bobo$7b2o21b4obo9bo$6bo2bo17b2o3b3o6bo
2bo$2o3b2o2bo16b2o2bo9b3o$2o4b2obo16b2obo$7bobo2bo15bo$11b2o15b2o$13bo
14b2o$13b2o2b2o9b2o$14bo2b2o$14b2obo$15b4o$17b3o$16bo4bo35bo$16b2obo
36bobo$20b3o8bo5bo$29b2o5bobo16bo2bo$24bobo3bo4b2obo16b2o$24bo3bob2o5b
o17bo$24bo2bo5b2o$25b2o14b2o$40bo2bo$41b2o$41bo15b2o7b3o$39bo16bo9b3o$
39bo16b2o$56b3o6b2obo$25b2o13bo2bo13b2o5bo3bo$24bo2bo12b3o12bob3o4b3o$
25b2o15bo7b3obo3bo$40bo9b4o2bo$30bo8bo14b3o$29bobo6bo2bo12b2o$29bobo6b
o28bo$30bo8b3o24bobo$67bo$43bo23b2o$43bobo21b2o$43bo23bo$44bobo19b2obo
$46b2ob2o12bob2obo$44bob5o12bo4bo$44b2obo15bobo$47b2o$48b3o$50b2o$52b
2o$52bo2$53b4o5b2o$57bo4b2o$53b2o2bo$54b3o$55bo4$54b2o$54b2o!

[dvgrn]

Is this period-192 Cordership known?

I'm pretty sure that's a new one. There's a known 5-in-a-row Cordership, but in spite of the relatively large size of this new Cordership, it's actually a 4-in-a-row. It regenerates itself very nicely from its four leading switch engines, so it should be constructible with a dozen gliders plus a few more for cleanup:

Code: Select all

x = 39, y = 39, rule = Life
2bobo$b2ob2o$b2obo$o$bo$bo5$13b2o$12b3o$9bobob2o$10b2o11$26b3o$26b3o$
27bo$25b2o$25bo$26bo4$37bo$36b3o2$36b3o$33b2ob2o$35bo!

Maybe there's a construction order for the switch engines that will reduce the amount of cleanup needed.

[wwei23]

It regenerates itself very nicely from its four leading switch engines, so it should be constructible with a dozen gliders plus a few more for cleanup:

That's because it's made from two copies of a yl96 I saw on Catagolue in my symmetry that randomly places two switch engines and a block. Are there any other period-192 Corderships?

EDIT: Wait why are all the corderships on the LifeWiki period-96
EDIT 2: 4-glider cleanup:

Code: Select all

x = 151, y = 149, rule = B3/S23
b2o$obo$2o4$3b2o3b2o$2bo2bo2b2o$2bo2bo$3b2o3$14b2o$14b2o3$13b2o$12bo2b
o$12bo2bo$13b2o5b2o$19bobo$19b2o38$54b2o$54bobo$54bo47$101b2o$101bobo$
101bo8$122b2o$122bobo$122bo26$148b2o$148bobo$148bo!

[Ian07]

EDIT 2: 4-glider cleanup:

Code: Select all

RLE

2G cleanup from Seeds of Destruction:

Code: Select all

x = 92, y = 92, rule = B3/S23
56bobo$56b2o$50bo6bo$51bo$49b3o$46b2o$45bobo$47bo2$67bobo$67b2o$59bo8b
o$60bo$58b3o3$55b2o$54bobo$56bo4$82bo$80b2o$81b2o7$78b2o$78bobo$78bo
12bo$89b2o$73b3o14b2o$75bo$74bo3$87b2o$87bobo$87bo2$84b3o$86bo$85bo32$
2o$b2o$o9$12bo$12b2o$11bobo!

[praosylen]

Very nice! I don't think population records are being tracked "officially" for p192 Corderships, but this (180 cells in the minimum phase:)

Code: Select all

x = 71, y = 71, rule = B3/S23
25bo$24bobo$23b2ob2o$23bo2bo$22b3o$22bobo$22b2o$8b2o12b2o$8b2o3$25bo$
24bo9b3o$23b2o10bo$23b3o6bo2bo$2o30bo2bo$2o30bobo$22b3o$21bo4bo$21bo3b
2o$21b4o$35bo$34bobo$35bo3$34b4o$32bo3b2o$31bo4bo$31b2obo$33bo3$43b2o
$42b3o3bo9bo$44bo2bobo5b4o$41bo2bo3bo5bo3bo$17b3o20bo$41bobo10b3o$15b
o5bo3b2o14b2o$15bo5bo2bo2bo$15bo5bo3b2o2$17b3o10bo37bo$29bobo19b2o14b
3o$29bobo19bo4bo2bo10bo$30bo19bo2bo2b3o6b2ob2o$50bo2bo2b2o5b2ob3o$50b
o2bo9b4o$29b3o18b3o2$27bo5bo$27bo5bo$27bo5bo2$29b3o6$62b2o$62b2o7$54b
2o$54b2o!

certainly beats my 303-cell one here.

[MathAndCode]

Considering that the reaction doesn't need to occur at any specific period, making it work shouldn't be very hard.

Edit: Could this be helpful?

Code: Select all

x = 6, y = 12, rule = B3/S23
2obo2$2b2o$b4o$b4o3$b4o$b4o$2b2o2$2bob2o!

Another edit: A pair of dot sparks two or three cells apart can replace a domino spark.

Code: Select all

x = 8, y = 6, rule = B3/S23
3b2o$2bo2bobo$obo2bo$2bo2bo$obo2bobo$3b2o!

Those are all great ideas for stabilizing this, all of which I've tried without success. Sadly, the issue is that there simply don't (yet?) exist less bulky sparkers that can produce the sparks one would need to support the reaction, short of the completely overkill method of synthesizing the sparks with gliders from guns. It might be an interesting exercise to try to stabilize using p120 guns or something similar, but it's not going to be the kind of thing anyone would include in their oscillator collections. I think the best bet to complete it in a way that would be seen as notable would be to find some slightly better p7 domino sparkers and use the variation I found, but given how much effort people have put in over the years to find p7 sparkers with relatively few good results, I doubt either of us would have much luck without what might be a weeks-long computer search...

I just found something else:

Code: Select all

x = 6, y = 8, rule = B3/S23
b2o2$b4o$o4bo3$o4bo$b4o!

Unfortunately, it fixes the period to ten, which is probably too low for six sparks per period. There might be a way to use a five-period sparker on the long sides, but even if that's the case, any attempt to make an oscillator out of this would be further complicated by the fact that the pattern goes towards the spark, which will make clearance more difficult.

[ENORMOUS_NAME]

two herschels => cis-mirrored R-mango and two beehives

Code: Select all

x = 15, y = 3, rule = B3/S23
3o9b3o$bo11bo$b3o7b3o!

symmetrical synapse

Code: Select all

x = 31, y = 5, rule = B3/S23
3ob3ob3ob3ob3ob3ob3ob3o$obobobobobobobobobobobobobobobo$obobobobobobob
obobobobobobobobo$obobobobobobobobobobobobobobobo$3ob3ob3ob3ob3ob3ob3o
b3o!

replacing the outermost zeros with ones results in a different still life and two traffic lights

Code: Select all

ob3ob3ob3ob3ob3ob3obo$obobobobobobobobobobobobobo$obobobobobobobobobob
obobobo$obobobobobobobobobobobobobo$ob3ob3ob3ob3ob3ob3obo!

probably all found already